Master of Nine conversion to PF1

[Epic Legand]

Hi guys, not sure if this is the right forum, or if its belongs in homebrew. I'm looking for a prestige class for Path of War that covers what Mo9 did...more maneuvers, more readied and more stances. I know that Mo9 was considered a poor choice because of there being to many prerequisites and I'm hoping to find anything reasonable. Yes I know I can just say to my DM..."Hay I want this, but can you make it easier", but I'm hoping there is something out there that I have missed. Also, why was there nothing made for POW that covered this? Surly they looked at it, so what was the design motivation to eliminate it?

[Particle_Man]

Well at least with the faster feat progression of Pathfinder compared to 3.5 it is easier to get into Mo9, so there is that.

[Ramza00]

Think of this post as having 3 layers.

Layer 1 (The Prestige Class)


Daring Hero from April Augmented 2016 if I recall the year correctly. Why we will do Layer 6 will make more sense after understanding Layer 2. I will explain later at that stage.

Layer 2 (Base Classes)


With how Path of War Initiators work it is quite easy to simulate Master of Nine with the 26 martial traditions that Dreamscarred Press, and later Lost Spheres Publishing has created. This is due to how IL works with maneuvers and prestige classes.

In every path of war base class there is a section that says this.

Maneuvers

...[other text]...

Upon reaching initiator level 4th, and at every even numbered initiator level thereafter (6th, 8th, 10th, and so on), the warder can choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one she already knows. In effect, the warder loses the old maneuver in exchange for the new one. The warder need not replace the old maneuver with a maneuver of the same level. She can choose a new maneuver of any level she likes, as long as she observes her restriction on the highest-level maneuvers she knows. The warder can swap only a single maneuver at any given level. A warder’s initiation modifier is Intelligence.

And the Path of War Prestige Classes advances the IL for all your base classes.

Thus

X 5/Path of War Prestige Class 10 where X is 5 different Path of War classes will have an IL of

03 at HD 05
04 at HD 06
08 at HD 10
13 at HD 15

and one of those 5 base classes with have an IL equal to HD if you take the Practiced Initiator (Combat) Trait.

I would like making the 5th level be Mystic or Parasite (Lost Spheres Publishing New Class in Codex of Blood: Parasites and Paragons) for your manuevers automatically refresh every 4 rounds, and every 3 rounds with the extra granted maneuver feat or a training +1 item weapon effect on your magic weapon (keyed to extra granted maneuver)

Likewise Warpath Follower Inquisitor and Warpath Follower Warpriest are good 1 level dips for their maneuver recovery is even faster with a new maneuver recovered every 3 rounds or 2 rounds with the extra granted feat (a feat you can take multiple times.) Since these are


Back to Layer 1 (The Prestige Class)

So which prestige class do you pick?

It doesn't really matter but I picked Daring Hero since it only requires a single feat which is actually not bad and it makes all you maneuvers now based off Charisma as well as Class Abilities that reference an Initiation Modifier. Daring Hero also gives you free extra actions per combat to use with counters. Counters pair well with Mystic / Parasite / Warpath Classes / Rubato Bard / Other Classes that recover maneuvers for free without using an action. Also works well with Riven Hourglasses Chronal Fission Stance, and Riven Hourglass Eternity which is the 2nd Style Feat in the Feat Chain.

That said you can make the case for other prestige classes such as Awakened Blade since it is advances psionics plus maneuvers and you can use it also to fuel abilities such as Psychic Warrior and Soul Knife that are also initiators. Awakened Blade also gives you free actions to do counters based off other mechanics such as your psionic focus.

Likewise the other prestige classes also work

Layer 2.5 (Summary So Far)


So the above 2 layers means that on every Even HD if you enter a prestige class at level 6 you now get new maneuvers. Thus at HD 6 you have likely 15 to 20 maneuvers "readied" and on HD 6 you swap out 4 maneuvers for 2nd level maneuvers and one class with the Practiced Initiator swaps out a 3rd level maneuver for a 3rd level maneuver.

At HD 8 you swap out 4 maneuvers for 3rd level maneuvers and one class gets a 4th level maneuver swap out. Again and again.

At the same you still get a maneuver every 2 levels on odd levels usually from your prestige class. Thus HD 7 you get a 4th level maneuver form the prestige, HD 8 you swap and gain a 4th level maneuver, HD 9 you get a 5th maneuver, HD 10 you get a 5th maneuver swap, so on and so on.

Now lets think feats.


Layer 3 (Feats)


Advanced Study is a Combat Feat that allows you to get 2 maneuvers of your highest level for a Feat. It requires 4 levels in a Maneuver Base Class, or 1 level in Base Class and 3 levels of Prestige. Furthermore Advanced Study can be taken 1 time for each of your base classes allowing you 5 opportunities if you take 5 base classes.

Thus if you get free swap maneuvers on Even Levels starting HD 8 from Bonus Feats, and HD 09 / 11 / 13 / 15 / etc from HD Feats you can now take Advanced Study.

At the same time there are other good feats, too many for me to list them all here. But let me point out 2 neat feats from Lost Sphere's Publishing Codex of Blood: Parasites and Paragons

Cooperative Recuperation is a teamwork and combat feat. If you have a teamwork member within 30 feet and they also have this feat, when you recover any maneuver (regardless of the method) they also recover 1 maneuver and vice versa. This can be used once per round.

Combat Tenacity is a combat Feat. You can use a boost and a counter the same round with the same base swift / immediate action. Thus effectively doubling your actions for you get 1 counter and 1 boost instead of 1 counter or 1 boost.

So what I am saying is you can easily replicate the 2/1/2/1/2 maneuver progression of Master of Nine with any prestige class once you have a deeper understanding of path of war.

As for the class abilities of Master of Nine they are harder to replicate but there are various options that mostly replicate them.

-----

So yeah Master of Nine is more or less there if you know how to squint and you see it. It just doesn't have a dedicated page saying play this prestige class to get the effect desired, instead it is play any prestige class and get the effect desired.

[Epic Legand]

Ram, 1st, thank you for responding. I respectfully disagree. When mixing classes, you do not round up the Initiator Level, you round down. Also, while I am aware the the prestige classes progress all the Initiator classes, they allow a replacement of existing maneuvers, not more maneuvers. I understand your idea is to just take more and more bases classes, thus start with a huge number of readied maneuvers...then drag them all forward, this only allows for dips in all classes. Also, lets say you take Stalker, Harbinger, Mystic, Rajah, and Parasite...What would your BAB be at 6th level with 1 level of Daring Hero? Zero. I understand you might decide to bump Chr...which would reduce your MAD, AFTER you started your prestige class...But whats game play gonna look like while you move up? By 10th level, your BAB would only be a THREE. Mo9 is more then just more maneuvers, its access to schools you did not start with, its dual stances...It was supposed to be an example of the ultimate warrior, familiar with all the choices and capable of fighting any threat. Your example would get soundly beaten by most straight builds in my opinion.

[Ramza00]

Initiators get 1/2 IL for any HD that is not their base class or prestige class.

Thus X 1/Y 4 gets an IL of 1+ 2 * .5=3
Then with Daring Hero it becomes 4 to 13 over HD 6 to 15.

-----

If you are not playing fractional babs and saves then these following classes are full BAB and are 9th level IL (instead of the hybrid archetype classes that swap class features to get 6th level maneuvers.)

Warder
Warlord
Zealot

and Daring Hero is Full BAB itself.

-----

The Maneuver Swap for Path of War allows you to swap lower level maneuvers for higher level maneuvers. It is different than how sorcerer swap spells. Thus at 6th IL I can swap a 1st level maneuver for a 3rd level maneuver.

-----

And yes straight builds can do some things better than this, but the idea of this type of build is to have greater versatility but less straight power. What is the couplet again? Jack of all trades / master of none / though oftentimes better than master of one.

[Epic Legand]

It rounds down, it lists it this way in the book, and on the website

"For example, a 7th-level stalker/5th-level warlord has an initiator level of 9th for determining the highest- level maneuvers he can take as a stalker. Subsequently, he can take 5th level stalker maneuvers. As a warlord, his initiator level would be 8th, allowing for 4th-level warlord maneuvers. These maneuvers are readied and performed separately. Multiclassing does not allow an initiator to have any individual stance or maneuver known or readied more than once.

This process applies whether a class is a martial disciple class or not (for example, a 4th-level wizard/1st-level warder would be a 3rd level initiator). Martial prestige classes add the full prestige class level to your martial disciple level to determine your initiator level. See the martial disciple’s prestige class descriptions for more information."

[Epic Legand]

I appreciate your time and response, In no way do I feel this technique reproduces the feel or goal of Mo9, however I understand you do. Fractional BAB might be accepted at your table, but its a variant rule. As to Daring Hero, I LOVE the idea, but would NEVER pick it as a class, it fails at improving on any base class. Plot armor that stops working when facing the big bad? Super power is "I enter the room"? Advanced super power ( very high level) is easily mimicked with a $2,000 GP item? Believe me, I want it to work, but the entire concept requires the DM invest in reputations, outside narratives and a host of other stuff. Edgelord (same release) is my favorite, and is perfectly functional by comparison. Sadly Daring Hero is just subpar to just staying in class( unless you have FIVE base classes). How many DM's do you know that would not have a problem with five bases classes, each with only one level?