Does "Sustains creature without air" protect you from ingested poisons?

[eyebreaker7]

What exactly does "Sustains creature without air" cover? I'm looking at the ioun stone:
Iridescent Spindle Sustains creature without air 18,000 gp

Ok so I get it helps with being under water or in a vacuum but what about poison gas? I would think it keeps you protected. If it's an ingested poison anyway, not a contact poison.

[Silly Name]

Ingested=/inhaled, just for clarity.

The question here is whether the ioun stone actively stops you from breathing, or simply makes it something you don't need. Elves don't need to sleep, but they still can do it if they want.

The rules are silent on such an issue, but I would expect most characters belonging to races that normally need to breathe to survive will continue to breathe instinctively, and need to actively stop themselves from doing so. Therefore, I say the ioun stone doesn't directly protect you from poisonous gasses, but it does allow you to hold your breath indefinitely.

Also if we want to get technical, you still need air to talk, so your average human(oid) will probably want to keep breathing in air even if affected by the ioun stone.

[JNAProductions]

Ingested=/inhaled, just for clarity.

The question here is whether the ioun stone actively stops you from breathing, or simply makes it something you don't need. Elves don't need to sleep, but they still can do it if they want.

The rules are silent on such an issue, but I would expect most characters belonging to races that normally need to breathe to survive will continue to breathe instinctively, and need to actively stop themselves from doing so. Therefore, I say the ioun stone doesn't directly protect you from poisonous gasses, but it does allow you to hold your breath indefinitely.

Also if we want to get technical, you still need air to talk, so your average human(oid) will probably want to keep breathing in air even if affected by the ioun stone.

I'll echo this.

You can hold your breath indefinitely, but unless the PC takes several months to get themselves out of the habit of breathing because they're insanely paranoid, I'd assume they breathe by default. If a player suspects or knows there's poison gas, they can state that their PC is holding their breath, and maintain it without fail, but if they don't, they breathe it in.

[Zanos]

I'll echo this.

You can hold your breath indefinitely, but unless the PC takes several months to get themselves out of the habit of breathing because they're insanely paranoid, I'd assume they breathe by default. If a player suspects or knows there's poison gas, they can state that their PC is holding their breath, and maintain it without fail, but if they don't, they breathe it in.
That seems kind of silly to me, the magic item should operate continuously, you shouldn't need to explicitly declare the use of a continuous item to benefit from it. 18k ain't cheap.

I'd give the player the favorable interpretation that they are immune to inhaled poisons with it. Ingested you're out of luck though, that's something that you eat or drink.

[eyebreaker7]

I was wondering if it worked like a necklace of adaptation or not. Guess your better off with the necklace unless you need that slot for something else. 9k gold is a lot cheaper than the stone which costs twice as much but isn't as good.


Necklace of Adaptation
This necklace is a heavy chain with a platinum medallion. The magic of the necklace wraps the wearer in a shell of fresh air, making him immune to all harmful vapors and gases (such as cloudkill and stinking cloud effects, as well as inhaled poisons) and allowing him to breathe, even underwater or in a vacuum.

Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, alter self; Price 9,000 gp.

[Troacctid]

From the poison rules:

Holding one’s breath is ineffective against inhaled poisons; they affect the nasal membranes, tear ducts, and other parts of the body.
Your ability or inability to breathe is irrelevant to your susceptibility to inhaled poisons.

[ixrisor]

It doesn’t matter whether it does or doesn’t - inhaled poisons can affect a character holding his breath because they enter through the mucous membranes (eyes, nose, etc).

[PrismCat21]

Ok so I get it helps with being under water or in a vacuum but what about poison gas? I would think it keeps you protected. If it's an ingested poison anyway, not a contact poison.


I was wondering if it worked like a necklace of adaptation or not. Guess your better off with the necklace unless you need that slot for something else. 9k gold is a lot cheaper than the stone which costs twice as much but isn't as good.

Poison you ingest has nothing to do with poison you inhale. Neither the Ioun Stone or Necklace will protect you from ingested poison.
The necklace specifically protects you from inhaled vapors or gasses, the ioun stone does not. The necklace also takes up a valuable magic item slot, the ioun does not. The necklace has a better benefit but also a big drawback.



It doesn’t matter whether it does or doesn’t - inhaled poisons can affect a character holding his breath because they enter through the mucous membranes (eyes, nose, etc).

Do you have a source for that?

[Venger]

Do you have a source for that?
In the poison rules.

(Holding one’s breath is ineffective against inhaled poisons; they affect the nasal membranes, tear ducts, and other parts of the body.)

[PrismCat21]

In the poison rules.

Cool. Thank you. I was unaware of those rules.

[Zanos]

From the poison rules:

Your ability or inability to breathe is irrelevant to your susceptibility to inhaled poisons.
Huh, weird. That makes it more of an airborne contact poison than an inhaled poison. But yeah, the ioun stone wouldn't help at all unless it's making an air bubble around you or something goofy.

[Miss Disaster]

The Ioun Stone: Iridescent Spindle really comes in to its own in higher level Pathfinder play (I haven't played much higher level 3.5 - so I can't say on that).

Quite a lot of very dangerous, high-CR monsters have attacks & spells that are suffocation-effects. And this ioun stone puts the kibosh on those deadly attacks.

[Venger]

Huh, weird. That makes it more of an airborne contact poison than an inhaled poison. But yeah, the ioun stone wouldn't help at all unless it's making an air bubble around you or something goofy.

Well, without that rule, any time inhaled poisons came up, a character could quite reasonably say "I hold my breath" and do so for long enough to get out of the affected area and to wrap up combat, so they wouldn't really do anything.

[Khedrac]

Something to add to the use of an ioun stone to not need to breathe - not breathing stops the use of any verbal language (so if everyone knows drow sign language then you can all communicate) as that requires the passage of gas over one's vocal chords.

So, if the player states that the character is practicing not breathing then don't permit them to talk without the use of a telepathic bond or similar.

[Crake]

Huh, weird. That makes it more of an airborne contact poison than an inhaled poison. But yeah, the ioun stone wouldn't help at all unless it's making an air bubble around you or something goofy.

Since it only seems to affect mucous membranes, it seems more like tear gas, where a gas mask would protect you, and the rest of your body isn't affected. I believe that is actually what the Auran Mask alchemical item is for, though it's not a perfect solution, I think it only gives +5 on saves.