The White Wyrmling! Ive caught one... now what?

[hitchhike79]

During a recent adventure into the north, our party of Level 7 players ran across a wild band of barbarians and in their party they had a
pair of White wyrmlings. Being the smart Gnome that i am... i captured one before we killed it along with the rest of the barbarians.

My character understands it to be a very wild and abused dragon right now. I have it hobbled and slowly allowing
more freedoms, with the idea to re-rehabilitate it from its capture and ill treatment by the barbarians.
Though i havent attempted to communicate with it yet, something tells me i will need to soon as its intelligent and
eventually will need to reach an understanding with me.

My goal as a Deep Gnome and being long of life, is to gain a friend and Ally. My true mission on the surface is to find powerful
allies to combat an ancient Purple Worm who is nesting in a massive cavern filled with gems that we cannot seem to defeat.
(yes a dragon in the underdark would draw a ton of attention and be hard to fit around the place, but still its the plan)


My concerns/questions are this;
1. While the DM allowed me to capture it, i can definitely tell has reservations about me having a white dragon wyrmling in tow.
My idea to make sure it does not becomes OP, is to attempt for the next lvl or so to train/work/make a deal with the dragon to
assist us for a cut of my loot. (im a cleric, i really dont need anything much in the long run). It wont be with us for dungeons
obviously and perhaps will only be an off and on ally in the open Tundra/Mountains or other large areas that allow it freedom of movement.
I think with those caveats i should be good IF i can get this guy on the dont kill everyone page.

2. I am Neutral Good, i really will have no qualms killing this thing if it really turns on us but at the same time i can truely
see the power potential of having a White Dragon ally years and years down the road. Is there precedence of young Dragons
being turned? Its a young sentient being, albeit a bit of a wild one that was abused and forced into service.
I guess i look at Wulfgar as a perfect example of this from the early Drizzit stories. Tries to kill Bruenor but ends up being captured and shown there is another way.

3. Lastly and this is just the Trickster Cleric in me... can i ride a wyrmling as a small gnome in leather armor?
im thinking yes... with training/agreements made of course.

PS. Since it is a Dragon i would expect it to have learned common or something of the sort from the barbarians?
If not how long do you think a dragon would take to learn it?



I have read a ton and im trying to not use all that knowledge outside the game to affect how i interact with the dragon.


Thanks all.

[cutlery]

Dragon steaks.

[Hellpyre]

Whites in particular stand out because they are far less intelligent and more animalistic than most other dragons. It is very unlikely to speak Common at the moment, and indeed might not reach the ability to understand it any more than a dog would for several decades.

In the best case, you might hope for it to treat you like a lion treats a human who raises it - it might not maul you specifically, but it probably will try to go back to what its instincts tell it to do as much as possible (and as non-pack apex predators, those things are not likely to involve snuggling party members).

Realistically, your safest (for you and the countryside) option is probably to take 'im 'round back the old shed.

EDIT: There is some precedence from 3rd edition on raising a normally evil dragon to not be, but it involves rearing from an egg. Explicitly, after hatching, a dragon won't imprint on you and is unlikely to take training well.

[kingcheesepants]

The way you're explaining it makes it sound reasonable that you might be able to convince it to at least become friendly towards your group and maybe neutral(ish) towards everyone else. White dragons are the most bestial of all the dragons and definitely evil but a good adventurer taking the time to help raise him as a wyrmling seems like the sort of thing that could make it able to not be quite so murderous. You'll probably never see him as an adult unless your campaign does some sort of time skip so it isn't like it's going to be crazy overpowered. Having him come by from time to time when you're out in the tundra or mountains seems reasonable. If you've got a druid or a wizard they'll be summoning elementals and beasts and whatnot that are just as if not more powerful than a dragon wyrmling so I wouldn't worry too much about it. And people can ride wyverns so I don't see why you wouldn't be able to ride a dragon.

[OldTrees1]

1) It will stay a wyrmling for the entire campaign unless your party pulls a Captain America or other time skip. However it will feel like having several extra 3rd level spells per day. (Mix of Fly and cold Fireball)

2) It is a person that you have captured. It has 5 Int and 11 Cha. It may be a bit dim, and it is only as stubborn as the average human. You can gain an ally, but captivity is likely to create an enemy instead. Bruenor had the power of plot on their side, you don't. Try something less like slavery.

3) Yes you could ride it, but remember it is a person. Also a better the word is "practice", both the gnome and the dragon would practice that maneuver.

PS) It probably knows some broken common. It probably takes the normal amount of time to learn a language.

[Peelee]

Whites in particular stand out because they are far less intelligent and more animalistic than most other dragons. It is very unlikely to speak Common at the moment, and indeed might not reach the ability to understand it any more than a dog would for several decades.

It's a dragon. It's a white dragon, and a wyrmling dragon, but it's still a dragon. They have over 3 Int. That means it can speak and is sapient. That is not the ability to understand any more than a dog.

"Far less intelligent than most other dragons" does not mean "not intelligent" anymore than "far less big than dragons" makes a giant "not big".

[KorvinStarmast]

Dragon steaks.
Advertisement voice over:
Dragon, the other white meat

If it's a wyrmling, is this the draconic equivalent to veal?

Dragon Scaloppini.
Hmm, starting to salivate ... could someone get me some fava beans and a nice Chianti?

[OldTrees1]

Advertisement voice over:
Dragon, the other white meat

If it's a wyrmling, is this the draconic equivalent to veal?

Dragon Scaloppini.
Hmm, starting to salivate ... could someone get me some fava beans and a nice Chianti?

Closer to roasted kitten. :smallyuk:
Especially D&D Dragons, those are basically scaled cats with super intelligence, wings, and magical breath.

[KorvinStarmast]

Closer to roasted kitten. :smallyuk:
Especially D&D Dragons, those are basically scaled cats with super intelligence, wings, and magical breath. The size of a small horse/pony. Kitten? Methinks not.
Here's a stat block.

White Dragon Wyrmling Medium dragon, chaotic evil
Armor Class 16 (Natural Armor) Hit Points 32 (5d8 + 10)
Not a kitten.

Speed 30 ft., burrow 15 ft., fly 60 ft., swim 30 ft.
STR 14 (+2) DEX 10 (+0) CON 14 (+2) INT 5 (-3) WIS 10 (+0) CHA 11 (+0)
Now go and check the stat block of a cat. :smalltongue:
Challenge 2 (450 XP)
Now go and check the CR of a cat. :smallyuk:

Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d10 + 2) piercing damage plus 2 (1d4) cold damage.
Now go and check the damage done by a cat. :smallyuk:

COLD BREATH (RECHARGE 5–6)
Cold Breath (Recharge 5–6). The dragon exhales an icy blast of hail in a 15-foot cone. Each creature in that area must make a DC 12 Constitution saving throw, taking 22 (5d8) cold damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. That's more dangerous than a human bandit.

Defense rests, your honor.

[Peelee]

The size of a small horse/pony. Kitten? Methinks not.
Here's a stat block.

Not a kitten.

Now go and check the stat block of a cat. :smalltongue:
Challenge 2 (450 XP)
Now go and check the CR of a cat. :smallyuk:

Now go and check the damage done by a cat. :smallyuk:
That's more dangerous than a human bandit.

Defense rests, your honor.

What's the statblock of a cow?

[KorvinStarmast]

What's the statblock of a cow? You can approximate that with horse or giant goat, but I need to ask: what has that got to do with this discussion?
I'll give you the stat block of an Aurochs, though, since that's a big old cow with more meat on it.

Aurochs
Large beast, unaligned
Armor Class 11 (Natural Armor)
Hit Points 38 (4d10 + 16)
Speed 50 ft.
STR 20 (+5) DEX 10 (+0) CON 19 (+4) INT 2 (-4) WIS 12 (+1) CHA 5 (-3)
Challenge 2 (450 XP)
Same CR as a wyrmling, and also Not A Kitten

CHARGE
Charge. If the aurochs moves at least 20 feet straight toward a target and then hits it with a gore attack on the same turn, the target takes an extra 9 (2d8) piercing damage. If the target is a creature, it must succeed on a DC 15 Strength saving throw or be knocked prone.

Actions
GORE
Gore. Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 14 (2d8 + 5) piercing damage.
Also, more dangerous than two human bandits

And yes, since you asked, my level 7 battle master Orc fighter had an Aurochs mount named,

you'll hate me:


Angus.

Now, here's your stat block for a cat

Cat
Tiny beast, unaligned
Armor Class 12
Hit Points 2 (1d4)
Speed 40 ft., climb 30 ft.
STR 3 (-4) DEX 15 (+2) CON 10 (+0) INT 3 (-4) WIS 12 (+1) CHA 7 (-2)
That Is An Adult Cat, a Kitten is smaller than that.


CLAWS
Claws. Melee Weapon Attack: +0 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 1 slashing damage.Takes more than one hit to kill a commoner, eh?

[Peelee]

You can approximate that with horse or giant goat, but I need to ask: what has that got to do with this discussion?

Well, you asked if it was the draconic equivalent of a cow, OldTrees1 said more kitten than cow, so you posted the statblock of a kitten. So, the natural follow-up is "what is the statblock of a cow?"

A cow, mind you, not an Aurochs.

[OldTrees1]

The size of a small horse/pony. Kitten? Methinks not.

I said a cat word for the other reasons I mentioned. Think about how they walk, how they act, how they keep humans as pets (just like cats do :smallbiggrin:).

I said kitten as the cat word for the same reason you asked about veal. It is young meat instead of adult meat.

So wyrmling is to roast kitten as dragon is to roast cat.

[KorvinStarmast]

Well, you asked if it was the draconic equivalent of a cow, OldTrees1 said more kitten than cow, so you posted the statblock of a kitten. So, the natural follow-up is "what is the statblock of a cow?"

A cow, mind you, not an Aurochs.
I have answered your question already.
I have also provided you with a stat block for a cat.

A Wyrmling is NOT a kitten.

QED. But since you are not willing to do the work, here's a cow.
Cow

Large beast, unaligned
Armor Class 10
Hit Points 15 (2d10 + 4)
Speed 30 ft.STR18 (+4)DEX10 (+0)CON14 (+2)INT2 (-4)WIS10 (+0)CHA4 (-3)
Challenge 1/4 (50 XP)

CHARGE

Charge. If the cow moves at least 20 feet straight toward a target and then hits it with a gore attack on the same turn, the target takes an extra 7 (2d6) piercing damage.

GORE
Gore. Melee Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d6 + 4) piercing damage. Veal would have a lower CR, though.

Also: a cow is not a kitten. As you are from Alabama, I thought I'd make sure to include that.

[OldTrees1]

A Wyrmling is NOT a kitten.

QED.
Yes a wyrmling is not a kitten, but it is not a veal either. That was not your question.

As far as figuring out whether a cooked Wyrmling is more like veal, lamb, or roast kitten, I think the feline qualities of Dragons encourage me to presume the latter.

[KorvinStarmast]

Yes a wyrmling is not a kitten, but it is not a veal either. {scrubbed}

The words were: Dragon Steaks.

Compared to Dragon, I asked if Wyrmling was veal (or a veal equivalent).

And so the frog dies another horrible death as the joke has to be explained. Such is life, and death.

“Explaining a joke is like dissecting a frog. You understand it better but the frog dies in the process.”

― E.B. White

[Peelee]

I have answered your question already.
I have also provided you with a stat block for a cat.

A Wyrmling is NOT a kitten.

QED. But since you are not willing to do the work, here's a cow.
Cow

Challenge 1/4 (50 XP)

CHARGE
Veal would have a lower CR, though.

Also: a cow is not a kitten. As you are from Alabama, I thought I'd make sure to include that.

Cool. Now, since the cow is Large, scale it down to medium, and scale the stats accordingly, and hey, a wyrmling is not a cow.

My point is that I cannot quite see why you are riding the "a wyrmling is not a kitten!" line so hard when a wyrmling is also not a cow.

[OldTrees1]

{scrub the post, scrub the quote}
Yes, and I signalled seeing your joke by continued the joke at an oblique angle. Then I had to keep explaining that joke.


And so the frog dies another horrible death as the joke has to be explained. Such is life, and death.
2 frogs died tonight. So, do we have the frog legs for dinner or for breakfast?

[KorvinStarmast]

2 frogs died tonight. So, do we have the frog legs for dinner or for breakfast? Only if you have a nice Chianti.

[Peelee]

Only if you have a nice Chianti.

Dangit, I like frog legs but I am apathetic towards wine!

[KorvinStarmast]

Dangit, I like frog legs but I am apathetic towards wine! Hmm, I am not sure what beer is a good pairing with frog legs: Rolling Rock? The bottles are green ...

[Peelee]

Hmm, I am not sure what beer is a good pairing is with frog legs: Rolling Rock? The bottles are green ...

Why no love for a simple coke?

[KorvinStarmast]

Why no love for a simple coke? Coke and Frog legs.

I got nuthin'

(And I've a friend from France who might blanche at the very thought ... so I won't tell her)

[Peelee]

Coke and Frog legs.

I got nuthin'

(And I've a friend from France who might blanche at the very thought ... so I won't tell her)

My experience at the Chinese buffet in the beforetimes is that it's a fine combination, is all I'm saying.

[hitchhike79]

I’m oddly hungry and excited about the possibility of making a new scaly friend

[Sigreid]

Sounds to me like the real question is, in your DM's world, are chromatic dragons redeemable or do they have an overpowering draconic instinct for greed and brutality?

[Xervous]

Sounds to me like the real question is, in your DM's world, are chromatic dragons redeemable or do they have an overpowering draconic instinct for greed and brutality?

Sounds like common characteristics for a PC. I think they’ll get along splendidly.

[KorvinStarmast]

Sounds like common characteristics for a PC. I think they’ll get along splendidly.
Proposition: the game is called Dungeons and Dragons.
How it unfolds (sometimes)
The PCs murderhobos all aspire to achieve the level of greed, avarice, wealth, and bloody-handedness typically attributed to {chromatic} dragons. They go into dark, dank, and dangerous dungeons in order to learn how to do that. Along the way, they set fire to a tavern or two, slay a few demons, disrupt a few perfectly peaceful towns and/or cities, and eventually they arrive at the showdown when they confront a flying scaly creature: "I can out-dragon you, dragon!" seems to be their operating philosophy.

Sound familiar? :smallcool:

[Imbalance]

What I'm getting is that a wyrmling, a cow, and a kitten are three different things, but if you pen them together they might bond. I'm also sure that if your DM is fond of Forgotten Realms, the wyrmling has a good chance of eating you. And your cow. And your party. And your frogs. Maybe the kitten.

[Xervous]

Proposition: the game is called Dungeons and Dragons.
How it unfolds (sometimes)
The PCs murderhobos all aspire to achieve the level of greed, avarice, wealth, and bloody-handedness typically attributed to {chromatic} dragons. They go into dark, dank, and dangerous dungeons in order to learn how to do that. Along the way, they set fire to a tavern or two, slay a few demons, disrupt a few perfectly peaceful towns and/or cities, and eventually they arrive at the showdown when they confront a flying scaly creature: "I can out-dragon you, dragon!" seems to be their operating philosophy.

Sound familiar? :smallcool:

Wait, I thought the moral of the story was that the real dragons were in our hearts the whole time.

That all being said it shouldn’t be too hard to keep the dragon in check. Whites aren’t supremely malevolent or overly sadistic, mainly just neutral hungry with a side helping of basic ego stoking via bullying.

[KorvinStarmast]

Wait, I thought the moral of the story was that the real dragons were in our hearts the whole time. Sounds like something C.S. Lewis might write or stick into a Narnia book. :smallbiggrin:

That all being said it shouldn’t be too hard to keep the dragon in check. Whites aren’t supremely malevolent or overly sadistic, mainly just neutral hungry with a side helping of basic ego stoking via bullying. The one in Sunless Citadel is a potential TPK if it breathes and the party are in the sweet spot.

[Sigreid]

Wait, I thought the moral of the story was that the real dragons were in our hearts the whole time.

That all being said it shouldn’t be too hard to keep the dragon in check. Whites aren’t supremely malevolent or overly sadistic, mainly just neutral hungry with a side helping of basic ego stoking via bullying.

Read a quote once that went something like: We don't tell children fairy tales to teach them that there are dragons. Children already instinctively know that. We teach tell them fairly tales to teach them that dragons can be slain.

[Xervous]

Sounds like something C.S. Lewis might write or stick into a Narnia book. :smallbiggrin:
The one in Sunless Citadel is a potential TPK if it breathes and the party are in the sweet spot.

The hazard of a wyrmling to a level one party is more indicative of the fragility of level 1 characters than anything else. Clearly we can measure its danger in a threat equivalent metric of cats dogs as those also present a hazard to low level parties

The party in question here is L7. Not going to be many breath issues in this case.

[KorvinStarmast]

The hazard of a wyrmling to a level one party is more indicative of the fragility of level 1 characters than anything else.
Level 2, but yeah.

Clearly we can measure its danger in a threat equivalent metric of cats dogs as those also present a hazard to low level parties Cats: more dangerous than they look. (Wasn't there a movie about ten years ago about cats trying to take over the world?)
The party in question here is L7. Not going to be many breath issues in this case. Not from a wyrmling unless the party just came out of a fight and are low on HP ... :smallcool: