Every way for players to create Living Spells

[CIDE]

Assuming this is all done in a game and setting where player characters can create living spells, such as for defending a stronghold or base, what options are there for players to do this mechanically? Any classes, feats, spells, or items that would allow this to work without ding homebrew or anything like that? Anything 3.5 as well as limited Dragon Mag (case by case basis) is allowed.

It's not something that's come up for a specific game but has been discussed with a DM friend of mine for a potential future game.

[Saintheart]

Well, Living Spell is a template that can be applied to an arcane or divine spell effect, and it gives the spell "ooze traits". (EDIT: Indeed, as I note further down, I am dumb - the Living Spell takes on the ooze type.) This means it has a WIS score but no INT score, being mindless. So the first problem is how to give it a mind or otherwise render it controllable.

Here's the thing, your closest analogue is probably treating the living spell as an ooze. The Living Spell doesn't get ooze in its type, but the SRD by RAW says an ooze is "an amorphous or mutable creature, usually mindless" which fits pretty well with the living spell.

If you class it as an ooze, There's an Awaken Ooze spell in Dragon 304. Sor/Wiz 8, costs 500 XP, basically it's Awaken Animal for oozes. Gives it a mind and new INT, WIS, and CHA scores, meaning Hold Monster and other compulsion spells now affect it. Also speaks a language you know, so Diplomancy works on it as well.

Another alternative is to add the Sentry Ooze template from Dungeonscape on top of the Living Spell template. This renders the spell no longer mindless, and can be compelled via mind-affecting spells or similar.

EDIT: Also:

- Ooze Puppet from the Spell Compendium. Sor/Wiz 6.

- Slime domain allows clerics to rebuke/turn oozes as undead.

- Despite its name, the Oozemaster PrC from Masters of the Wild is completely useless for Living Spells, at least as written.

- Alkilith demon (Fiend Folio) controls oozes at will, though they get a chance to resist.

- Mantle of the Slime Lord (Champions of Ruin) prevents oozes from attacking you. Initiate of ghaunadaur 7




EDIT: Man, am I dumb. Living Spell specifically gives the spell the Ooze type, so all of these directly apply.

[Khedrac]

As far as I know there is no defined game mechanic to create a living spell - they are all the result of past over-use of magic.

That said, there's a good argument that Wish should be able to do this.

[Saintheart]

As far as I know there is no defined game mechanic to create a living spell - they are all the result of past over-use of magic.

That said, there's a good argument that Wish should be able to do this.

Yeah, really I think the mechanic for this is more going to have to be in capturing or controlling monsters that already exist rather than creating them. Could be an interesting 'trade' conducted out of wild magic areas: "Aye, sir, th' mage's go' the Living Fireball out in th' pen outside. 'Twasn't easy to ge' control of the bodger, singed mah mage's eyebrows off before it finally failed its saving throw, so it'll cost ye' an extra ten percent..."

[Raz Dazzle]

The Spell Sovereign class from Dragon Magazine 357 lets you create temporary living spells that act as summoned monsters. It also gives you a living spell familiar.

[ShurikVch]

Off the top of my head, there are two ways to create a Living Spell: Spell Sovereign PrC (Dragon #357) is all about living spells, and Mistling template (Forge of War) have Conjure Living Spell SA

[CIDE]

Well, Living Spell is a template that can be applied to an arcane or divine spell effect, and it gives the spell "ooze traits". (EDIT: Indeed, as I note further down, I am dumb - the Living Spell takes on the ooze type.) This means it has a WIS score but no INT score, being mindless. So the first problem is how to give it a mind or otherwise render it controllable.

Here's the thing, your closest analogue is probably treating the living spell as an ooze. The Living Spell doesn't get ooze in its type, but the SRD by RAW says an ooze is "an amorphous or mutable creature, usually mindless" which fits pretty well with the living spell.

If you class it as an ooze, There's an Awaken Ooze spell in Dragon 304. Sor/Wiz 8, costs 500 XP, basically it's Awaken Animal for oozes. Gives it a mind and new INT, WIS, and CHA scores, meaning Hold Monster and other compulsion spells now affect it. Also speaks a language you know, so Diplomancy works on it as well.

Another alternative is to add the Sentry Ooze template from Dungeonscape on top of the Living Spell template. This renders the spell no longer mindless, and can be compelled via mind-affecting spells or similar.

EDIT: Also:

- Ooze Puppet from the Spell Compendium. Sor/Wiz 6.

- Slime domain allows clerics to rebuke/turn oozes as undead.

- Despite its name, the Oozemaster PrC from Masters of the Wild is completely useless for Living Spells, at least as written.

- Alkilith demon (Fiend Folio) controls oozes at will, though they get a chance to resist.

- Mantle of the Slime Lord (Champions of Ruin) prevents oozes from attacking you. Initiate of ghaunadaur 7




EDIT: Man, am I dumb. Living Spell specifically gives the spell the Ooze type, so all of these directly apply.


That's a lot of good info but it doesn't explain how a player character can, in crunch, create a living spell. Thanks, though.


As far as I know there is no defined game mechanic to create a living spell - they are all the result of past over-use of magic.

That said, there's a good argument that Wish should be able to do this.

Wish is kind of the default "Can we do it? YES WE CA-- I mean, probably" method for most anything that isn't explicitly covered by an epic spell already.


Yeah, really I think the mechanic for this is more going to have to be in capturing or controlling monsters that already exist rather than creating them. Could be an interesting 'trade' conducted out of wild magic areas: "Aye, sir, th' mage's go' the Living Fireball out in th' pen outside. 'Twasn't easy to ge' control of the bodger, singed mah mage's eyebrows off before it finally failed its saving throw, so it'll cost ye' an extra ten percent..."

I like the approach and it may even be used to get people started on the idea to using living spells.


The Spell Sovereign class from Dragon Magazine 357 lets you create temporary living spells that act as summoned monsters. It also gives you a living spell familiar.

Never even heard of the class. I'm going to have to track it down. Thanks.


Off the top of my head, there are two ways to create a Living Spell: Spell Sovereign PrC (Dragon #357) is all about living spells, and Mistling template (Forge of War) have Conjure Living Spell SA

I completely forgot about that book. Need to see if I can find it.

[Saintheart]

Off the top of my head, there are two ways to create a Living Spell: Spell Sovereign PrC (Dragon #357) is all about living spells, and Mistling template (Forge of War) have Conjure Living Spell SA

Leaving aside the Mistling, I had a look at Spell Sovereign.

Encouragingly, they can create Living Spells! ... but the spells they create only last a maximum of 1 minute per spell sovereign level, so, 10 minutes maximum. This is a (Su) ability, so the odds are low we can get that persisted or extended.

But there does seem to be a RAW loophole around it, namely in combination of the following facts:

- the Spell Sovereign can Awaken a living spell much like the Awaken Ooze spell mentioned further up
- the Spell Sovereign can summon a Living Spell familiar.
- A Living Spell familiar is by RAW "a normal living spell" with special powers.
- An Awakened Living Spell cannot be a Living Spell familiar.

So: Spell Sovereign first summons a living spell as his familiar. Then he awakens it. The Awakened Living Spell cannot be a familiar, and therefore it's a short reach to say the Spell Sovereign loses the familiar but has a living spell that is now friendly towards him. The Spell Sovereign can now go and summon another familiar. Rinse, repeat.

Or alternatively, pick up the Spell Sovereign's capacity to summon living spells and then cast Awaken Ooze on it instead.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The Spell Sovereign class from Dragon Magazine 357 lets you create temporary living spells that act as summoned monsters. It also gives you a living spell familiar.A changeling wizard with the morphic familiar racial ACF who PRCs into spell sovereign can turn his familiar into any living spell he could normally take as a familiar. This isn't an alternate form, alter self, polymorph, or wild shape effect, so the familiar could cast whatever spell it turns into. So it turns into a cure light wounds living spell and can use it at will. Or shield, or magic missile, etc, etc, etc.