Is Level 100+ Even Possible?!

[Bartmanhomer]

I know someone must have built a Level 100+ character in this forum or even in the internet with perfect precision and calcution. A level that's incredibly high would consider godhood ascension or not. But is it possible to go that high or beyond that? :eek:

[Crake]

Why wouldn't it be?

[Bartmanhomer]

Why wouldn't it be?

I was just asking a simple question is it possible to go to a level that high and even beyond that.

[Psyren]

I was just asking a simple question is it possible to go to a level that high and even beyond that.

Yes. Simple answer.

Not so simple: asking someone to build that for you.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I was just asking a simple question is it possible to go to a level that high and even beyond that.There is no cap to epic levels.

It's unbalanced as hell (not that it's any different than any other time, just moreso), but it's not impossible.

[Bartmanhomer]

Yes. Simple answer.

Not so simple: asking someone to build that for you.

I'm not asking anyone to build it for me. (Not that I'm building one for such a crazy high level of course.)

[Vaern]

I think the epic level rules suggest that you are capable of ascending to arbitrarily high levels. There's a pre-made epic spell listed with a spellcraft DC of 419 to cast, which suggests that it is at least possible to hit a DC that high. The only issue would be finding challenges to give you sufficient experience. By that point everything you could possibly encounter would be an apocalyptic disaster, which brings about the question of where all of these world-ending abominations were before you hit epic levels and who was doomed to fight them off for all of eternity before you stepped up to the challenge.

[Tvtyrant]

For $20 I can make a system that goes to level 200++! (https://xkcd.com/670/)

[tyckspoon]

I know someone must have built a Level 100+ character in this forum or even in the internet with perfect precision and calcution. A level that's incredibly high would consider godhood ascension or not. But is it possible to go that high or beyond that? :eek:

The rules pretty much give up long before then (consider that the oldest forms of Epic Dragons are ~ CR 60, and then try to figure out what sorts of opponents a level 100 character ought to be contending with!) but from a strictly mechanical perspective there is no real limit to how high level a character you could design. The method for adding levels is pretty clearly laid out, you can continue adding a Hit Die/skill points/gaining Epic BAB/getting save bonuses/etc forever, and there are some class features that have clear and obvious means of progressing them as well that can keep scaling forever without any mechanical issues, so a level 100 character makes sense as much as anything does when you've gone so far past the levels D&D was designed to handle. You'll be on your own to make up feats, items, spells, etc that are appropriate for those levels tho.

[sreservoir]

Not only is it perfectly possible, there's even a (in)famous third-party book that trying to support it (https://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/ngdbss/immortals-handbook/).

[icefractal]

Possible? Yes. Easy, even, if you don't care about the build being good.
But there's the rub - what counts as a "good" for a 100th level character?

Even by 20th level, the possible range of characters has diverged hugely, so answering "Is this a good challenge for a 20th level character?" is quite difficult. Still, at least there are modules, foes, and a variety of existing characters to compare to.

For 100th level? Or really anything past 30th or so? There's no answer. There's no standard for what a 100th level character should be able to do, what kind of foes they'd face, how they interact with the world.

And I don't think there could be, because "levels keep going up infinitely" is inherently at odds with "being Xth level means something concrete". Like, 4E had a consistent idea in theory (IDK how well they stuck to it) - each tier meant something specific. But that relied on the levels stopping at some point. If they'd later added levels 31-40, what would even go there? You're already a full-on god or part of the universe or something. You could go into unusual territory, rising through the ranks of the gods, then meta-multiversal beings, then primal cosmic forces, and then ... what? That's still just level 70 or so, and you're already outside the territory of things that people can easily picture.

The ELH takes an "endless treadmill" approach, where you dungeon crawl forever in increasingly fancy dungeons, go to spend your loot at increasingly fancy magic shops, and drink in increasingly fancy taverns where increasingly fancy old men in the corner give you increasingly fancy maps or prophecies to follow. To me, that's fairly pointless - not worth the considerable amount of work to stat up a 100th level character for, at least.

I can understand the appeal though. I came up with a homebrew idea for extended progression in Pathfinder (no levels beyond 20th, but you repeatedly loop through those levels adding gestalt layers, and unlocking additional systems like mythic ranks as you complete more loops), and it did give me the urge to make a character for that. But without a setting where that power means something, I can't be arsed to actually do the work.

[Bartmanhomer]

The rules pretty much give up long before then (consider that the oldest forms of Epic Dragons are ~ CR 60, and then try to figure out what sorts of opponents a level 100 character ought to be contending with!) but from a strictly mechanical perspective there is no real limit to how high level a character you could design. The method for adding levels is pretty clearly laid out, you can continue adding a Hit Die/skill points/gaining Epic BAB/getting save bonuses/etc forever, and there are some class features that have clear and obvious means of progressing them as well that can keep scaling forever without any mechanical issues, so a level 100 character makes sense as much as anything does when you've gone so far past the levels D&D was designed to handle. You'll be on your own to make up feats, items, spells, etc that are appropriate for those levels tho.
Cool. So I assume that there's homebrew involved with it, right?

Possible? Yes. Easy, even, if you don't care about the build being good.
But there's the rub - what counts as a "good" for a 100th level character?

Even by 20th level, the possible range of characters has diverged hugely, so answering "Is this a good challenge for a 20th level character?" is quite difficult. Still, at least there are modules, foes, and a variety of existing characters to compare to.

For 100th level? Or really anything past 30th or so? There's no answer. There's no standard for what a 100th level character should be able to do, what kind of foes they'd face, how they interact with the world.

And I don't think there could be, because "levels keep going up infinitely" is inherently at odds with "being Xth level means something concrete". Like, 4E had a consistent idea in theory (IDK how well they stuck to it) - each tier meant something specific. But that relied on the levels stopping at some point. If they'd later added levels 31-40, what would even go there? You're already a full-on god or part of the universe or something. You could go into unusual territory, rising through the ranks of the gods, then meta-multiversal beings, then primal cosmic forces, and then ... what? That's still just level 70 or so, and you're already outside the territory of things that people can easily picture.

The ELH takes an "endless treadmill" approach, where you dungeon crawl forever in increasingly fancy dungeons, go to spend your loot at increasingly fancy magic shops, and drink in increasingly fancy taverns where increasingly fancy old men in the corner give you increasingly fancy maps or prophecies to follow. To me, that's fairly pointless - not worth the considerable amount of work to stat up a 100th level character for, at least.

I can understand the appeal though. I came up with a homebrew idea for extended progression in Pathfinder (no levels beyond 20th, but you repeatedly loop through those levels adding gestalt layers, and unlocking additional systems like mythic ranks as you complete more loops), and it did give me the urge to make a character for that. But without a setting where that power means something, I can't be arsed to actually do the work.

So I guess that Level 100+ is very pointless and meaningless then. That's a downer. :frown:

[eyebreaker7]

I think it was 2nd edition (maybe 1st. Can't remember) that had the module "Throne of Bloodstone" that was levels 20-100 (I think it was 20.) They even had premade 100th level characters in the back that you could play if you wanted.
As for 3rd edition? Would be a lot more difficult to figure out everything. For me anyway. Would just be a bit annoying sitting there going 1 level at a time to make sure I didn't miss something.

[Psyren]

So I guess that Level 100+ is very pointless and meaningless then. That's a downer. :frown:

Levels are only as meaningful as the challenges you face. If a level 100 monster is exactly the same as a level 30 monster but with inflated numbers, you haven't really changed the game experience in a meaningful way.

At the end of the day, game design is about crafting experiences, not simply taking the same experience and padding the numbers more.

[lylsyly]

it was 1e.

This module is listed as being intended for character levels 18 - 100. The upper end of this range is by far the highest level specified for any D&D module. The module includes a substantial section on running games with 100th level characters. The guidance rests on three principles:


100th-Level characters are not ten times more powerful than 10th-level characters
Apply all the rules strictly
Never give a 100th-level character an even break


;-)

[Ualaa]

I'm running a Pathfinder 1e campaign at the moment.

The characters began at 4th level, as gestalt characters.
Using the suggested fractional BAB, fractional Saves and best progression on features, as suggested by the sidebar in 3.0s Unearthed Arcana which introduced the idea of Gestalt characters.

From 4th to 10th, it was a level a session.
From 10th to 20th, it has slowed to a level every other session.
Sometime after 20th, it'll slow to a level every third session, which I feel is a good pace; I like the fixed leveling, without the need to mindlessly kill to level up.
But both 20-21st and 30-31st will be "gated" behind killing a boss that then opens higher play.
The group is currently 12th level.

The world is very loosely based off of Scadrial/Mistborn.
Quite a few changes, but that was the starting point.
The system is rigged against anyone not of the nobility.
The nobility is lead by the God-King, whose defeat will level the group to 21st level.
The God-King has kept the world isolated from the planes, but his death will remove that protection for this world.
The world is both a nexus (similar to Planescape's Sigil) as well as the first world, with a lot of interesting artifacts and locales that others will want.

Absorbing his mythic essence will have the characters become Mythic Tier 1.
I'll be doing a combination of (Savage Mojo's) Suzerain and Mythic Progression for the next arc of the campaign.
The various Suzerain stages are tied to 21st to 30th, rather than lower levels.
Mythic is by Ascension (the name of the campaign), a highlander type effect.
When a mythic opponent is slain, if it was higher Tier than anyone in the party, the least mythic character (random if equal) advances by one Tier.
If the mythic opponent was equal Tier (or lower), then one random character gains either extra mythic points, a mythic feat, a mythic ability or another (untyped) +2 to an ability score; there will be more options based on the Tier of the defeated opponent.

At 30th level, they become Demi-Gods using the Suzerain naming style, which in that system is normally for 20th level characters.
At that point I'll be doing (Sine Nomine Publishing's) Godbound and Lexicon of the Throne, where the characters will be in the process of becoming Gods for their realm.
There are fifty Words I'll be using.
The group defeats something (similar to the God King), which opens the Words of Creation.
Again going with the Ascension theme... in the end there will be a pantheon and new Gods/Goddesses.
Those in contention will be at least 30th (as the players join the new (divine) game) and will be Mythic Tier 10 of course...
Also going to go with one instance of each word within a pantheon.
So the players and any allies they make will each have unique words.
It's not a given that one pantheon will emerge, so an adversary could have the Words of Fate and Might, but collectively the party (and their allies) will only each have a given Word once.

The game ends (probably at 50th or thereabouts) when the competition has been eliminated enough that only twelve Demigods remain, at which point they Ascend to Godhood.

Anyway, my take on high level will end with Mythic Tier 10, Gestalt Level 50:50, likely with five of the Words of Creation per character.

[Biggus]

There is a very small amount of 1st-party support for level 100-ish characters. There's the Time Dragon in Dragon#359, which at great wyrm is listed as CR90, but if you look at the table there's clearly an error: it should probably be CR100. There's a sidebar on page 31 of Deities and Demigods which says


someone somewhere will run a campaign with characters up to 100th level, and they will find the deities as presented here reasonable challenges, maybe even easy

There are also some monsters, such as true dragons, which can be advanced infinitely, and a few others which can be advanced to around CR100. The Gravewyrm (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20040109a) is one example: if advanced to maximum HD, it has a theoretical CR of 107.

As for the practicalities of ultra-high-level play: I think it would only work as either an intentionally silly and OTT one-shot, or if very heavily houseruled. I've spent years tinkering with epic to make it even semi-balanced up to level 40 or so, it could be done at higher levels but it'd be a heck of a lot of work.

Another factor is the optimisation level: highly-optimised games become very swingy and unbalanced between classes before level 15, this only gets worse at epic. Short of houseruling the game to the point where it's almost unrecognisible, you'd have to play at low-to-mid-op to keep any semblance of balance.

[Buddy76]

Maybe a good challenge would be to build a martial character that didn't rely on magic and/or items (or doesn't rely on them as much on them). You'll probably not be able to go against epic spellcasting, but I think with a hundred levels you could pick up answers againts a lot of things that would, otherwise, simply shut down martials. You can go through The List of Necessary Magi Items (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?187851-3-5-Lists-of-Necessary-Magic-Items) and see how many of those you can replicate with class features. Also, remember that epic skills can do a lot of cool things. You can walk on clouds, tumble through walls of force, track people through the air, etc.

[Kayblis]

To be completely honest, a level 100 character is not much different from a level 30 character. You have some more inflated numbers, and if you weren't a spellcaster then(why?) you probably are now, and you got some more Epic feats. But if your character is not a complete piece by level 20, you really ****ed up creating it, and the other 80 levels are pretty much do-overs of these first 20 to get a viable character.

Sure, you got 103 ranks on maxed skills - that only helps meet epic DCs for skills and Epic Magic Spellcraft DCs, which are a joke if you actually create your spells. Sure, you have +60 BAB - but you still got 4 attacks, and if you are still rolling to hit at lv 100, I feel bad for you. Sure, you have a buttload of HP, but when has that ever mattered after level 10? The base gains are linear, the only things that matter are feats and class features, and you probably had most of the important ones before level 30 anyways. There's only so many classes you can pick before you're not really spending your actions with them, and only so much you can do with the mechanics before finding a level-independent method of growth(like, say, Fusion+Astral Seed or arbitrarily high CLs).

The issue with level 100 characters is that you don't actually play a level 100 character - either you never get there because you're playing with XP or milestones for less than 50 IRL years, or you're starting at 100 already and aren't really using even half of it. If you start a game with the objective of playing lv 100, you'll see players getting satisfied with their characters before the midway point and not really doing it, or better, finding better ways to improve than "level up".

[sreservoir]

There are plenty of neat class features to pick up after even at level 30. Those PrCs with neat game-breaking abilities that you wouldn't actually take outside of TO builds because they're tucked away behind a few lost caster levels? You can pick those up. Group rejects the text-trumps-table version of rainbow servant? Well, that's not really a problem post-20. Too tight on feats in your build to actually pull off dweomerkeeper entry? No big deal. Don't want to feel like a tortoise in disguise all day? A ten-level "dip" in divine oracle can solve that.

There's plenty more power you can gain over a 20-level build by removing levels as a limited resource. Do you get diminishing returns eventually? Yeah, sure. But you can probably fail to hit it before level 100, and you can definitely put some real tangible power on top of a 30-level build. Finite numbers can still get pretty darn big.

Coming up with encounters that hit the sweet spot of putting up a fight against but not completely destroying a party of lovingly built level 100 characters, now, that's a genuine challenge.

[the_tick_rules]

I guess ask the sphinx how it got to CR 90 something.

[Vaern]

Don't forget, this thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?564626-Epic-3-5-Wealth-by-level-chart) that I found gives us an expected wbl for 100. You have 1.86*10^32 gold pieces, which is 1.86*10^27 tons of gold. This mass of gold would have a volume of about 8.928*10^16 cubic kilometers, which is about 60 times the size of Jupiter. Besides being 60 times the volume of Jupiter, your ball of gold is also about 15 times as dense meaning that it has 900 times the mass which would put it roughly on par with the sun. The gravitational pull of your wealth would likely destroy the entire campaign setting, pulling the sun into it and merging into some glorious golden inferno as it swallows up the planet the game is taking place on along with the rest of the solar system.
But since those numbers sound absolutely ridiculous, I would very much like someone to double check my math.

[Batcathat]

Don't forget, this thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?564626-Epic-3-5-Wealth-by-level-chart) that I found gives us an expected wbl for 100. You have 1.86*10^32 gold pieces, which is 1.86*10^27 tons of gold. This mass of gold would have a volume of about 8.928*10^16 cubic kilometers, which is about 60 times the size of Jupiter. Besides being 60 times the volume of Jupiter, your ball of gold is also about 15 times as dense meaning that it has 900 times the mass which would put it roughly on par with the sun. The gravitational pull of your wealth would likely destroy the entire campaign setting, pulling the sun into it and merging into some glorious golden inferno as it swallows up the planet the game is taking place on along with the rest of the solar system.
But since those numbers sound absolutely ridiculous, I would very much like someone to double check my math.

I have no idea if your math is correct but I hope it is, as I love the sheer scale and ridiculousness of it all.

It kind of seems like a more realistic (well...) version of the guy in Disco Elysium who's rich enough that light bends around him.

[Edreyn]

Ask yourself how would a character reach this level. Who he was fighting with? Overdeities?

[Quertus]

Ask yourself how would a character reach this level. Who he was fighting with? Overdeities?

Other characters smart enough to resurrect one another.

[Edreyn]

Other characters smart enough to resurrect one another.


Upon completion of the spell, the creature is immediately restored to full hit points, vigor, and health, with no loss of prepared spells. However, the subject loses one level, or 2 points of Constitution if the subject was 1st level. (If this reduction would bring its Con to 0 or lower, it can’t be resurrected). This level loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means.

How long would they last?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

At level 1, take a level of wizard and Precocious Apprentice (Ray of Stupidity), along with Sanctum Spell and Forceful Magic (https://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/feat/Forceful_Magic). Kill some small animals for XP, then make a few 0-level scrolls of ray of stupidity via Sanctum Spell and Forceful Magic. Now go find some elephants. Knock 'em out with ray of stupidity; it's a ranged touch attack which will hardly ever miss, and the chance of hitting and not insta-K.O.ing them is completely nil. You should be able to level up to mid-levels in just a few rounds (one level per elephant, and one elephant per round). Once you have access to planar binding, call up a genie and use a wish for a thought bottle that's attuned to you and is filled with enough XP to get you to whatever level you want.

Alternatively, wish for an empty thought bottle, and use Extra Spell to get greater restoration and curse of lycanthropy (https://dndtools.net/spells/complete-divine--56/curse-of-lycanthropy--719/). Cast curse of lycanthropy on yourself for a high HD lycanthropy strain (such as elephantitis), hit yourself with some negative levels (waiting long enough to make them permanent), then cast greater restoration on yourself. This will reset your XP to incorporate the LA and RHD of yourself with the lycanthropy strain. Now store your XP in the thought bottle, break curse of lycanthropy via break enchantment and restore your previous XP level from the thought bottle. This will allow you to gain a ton of levels very fast, and it's repeatable!The first one could get you to epic; the second one could level you up as high as you want, as (as I said above) it's repeatable.

[Conradine]

There's a Dragon Magazine article which has the Sphinx at GS 100.

[Biggus]

I guess ask the sphinx how it got to CR 90 something.

Ah yes, the Sphinx. Which is CR100 but doesn't have flight or any other special movement powers, and also only has 1240HPs so if you can find a way to overcome its ridiculous damage reduction would last all of 1 round against a level 100 warrior :smalltongue:


Don't forget, this thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?564626-Epic-3-5-Wealth-by-level-chart) that I found gives us an expected wbl for 100. You have 1.86*10^32 gold pieces, which is 1.86*10^27 tons of gold. This mass of gold would have a volume of about 8.928*10^16 cubic kilometers, which is about 60 times the size of Jupiter. Besides being 60 times the volume of Jupiter, your ball of gold is also about 15 times as dense meaning that it has 900 times the mass which would put it roughly on par with the sun. The gravitational pull of your wealth would likely destroy the entire campaign setting, pulling the sun into it and merging into some glorious golden inferno as it swallows up the planet the game is taking place on along with the rest of the solar system.
But since those numbers sound absolutely ridiculous, I would very much like someone to double check my math.

Yeah...the chart in that thread is not the official WBL for level 41+ characters, it's somebody who claims to have found a "mistake" in the formula and "corrected" it. Using standard rules, a 100th-level PC would have about 4.1 billion GP.

[Edreyn]

My opinion - no way a mortal can have this level. Not even deities are that powerful. Maybe only entities like Ao or Lady Of Pain, who are beyond understanging.

[Efrate]

Got there before, via big jumps and breaking the 1 level a session cap. You need to basically fight classesd npcs with real wbl. Killing things 20 or 30 above CR is not that hard after a bit of epicness, as a caster at least. Invest your sun's worth of gold into epic spells, a base with every defense, golem, etc. inside your own personal demiplane in a dead magic zone that doesn't effect you.

Kill gods on a Tuesday if you feel like, usurp divinity if you can be bothered etc. Its a blast in the short term, and getting there is fun but its left to the background as a world building thing after a bit. The flying wizard continent of nomagicus which floats off to elsewhere having the only portal to the demiplane etc. Do not pull an icarus and fly to close to the sun for too long, it doesnt end well.

[Max Caysey]

I know someone must have built a Level 100+ character in this forum or even in the internet with perfect precision and calcution. A level that's incredibly high would consider godhood ascension or not. But is it possible to go that high or beyond that? :eek:

Sure it is, why wouldn’t it? Combine every base class and prestige class you probably end up with level 300!

[Selion]

I know someone must have built a Level 100+ character in this forum or even in the internet with perfect precision and calcution. A level that's incredibly high would consider godhood ascension or not. But is it possible to go that high or beyond that? :eek:

Are you interested in exploring the very boundaries of this old game system? Are you interested in a nonsensical childish battle of whoever could name the highest number?
I think this reading is for you:
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?579093-Let-s-Read-The-Immortal-Handbook-Bestiary

[Vaern]

Yeah...the chart in that thread is not the official WBL for level 41+ characters, it's somebody who claims to have found a "mistake" in the formula and "corrected" it. Using standard rules, a 100th-level PC would have about 4.1 billion GP.
Ah. I've been there before. Tried figuring out the formula for pricing metamagic rods. I think the costs calculated for my formula perfectly lined up with metamagic rods that increased the effective level of the affected spell by +0 and +1 for lesser, normal, and greater rods, which is what I was using as a point of reference; but when I compared calculated prices of other rods with printed items the projected cost of a +2 metamagic rod actually lined up with the printed cost of +3 rods, and the projected cost of a +3 rod was waaaay out there.
In the end, someone on the forum shared their own formula which I put in a spreadsheet somewhere. I can now calculate the prices of metamagic rods with 3 different sets of variables including the effective level increase of the metamagic feat, maximum spell level that the rod can be used on, and uses per day (default 3). Want to create a metamgic rod that can empower only a 1st level spell 1/day? That'll cost 300 gold.
Anyway, I can totally relate to someone coming up with a formula that matches up with known data points but then goes completely off the rails when it comes to projecting into unknown territory...

[Melcar]

Don't forget, this thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?564626-Epic-3-5-Wealth-by-level-chart) that I found gives us an expected wbl for 100. You have 1.86*10^32 gold pieces, which is 1.86*10^27 tons of gold. This mass of gold would have a volume of about 8.928*10^16 cubic kilometers, which is about 60 times the size of Jupiter. Besides being 60 times the volume of Jupiter, your ball of gold is also about 15 times as dense meaning that it has 900 times the mass which would put it roughly on par with the sun. The gravitational pull of your wealth would likely destroy the entire campaign setting, pulling the sun into it and merging into some glorious golden inferno as it swallows up the planet the game is taking place on along with the rest of the solar system.
But since those numbers sound absolutely ridiculous, I would very much like someone to double check my math.

Any wizard at level 21 has unlimited gold! WBL means nothing after level 21! Why, I'm glad you asked. Fabricate + Ignore Material Component = free platinum! Even if you dont want that feat, you can take it, cast frabricare for a few days and retrain it in several ways!

[Quertus]

How long would they last?

Sigh. Multiple "opposed" groups with the ability to resurrect their members with the True Resurrection spell - preferably, without needing the "expensive" components.

They'll level quite quickly "killing" one another off.

(Probably also works if "defeating" one another needn't be lethal. Imagine how high level people who seem to want to "win the internet" could be under such a system :smallwink:)

[Efrate]

If you face oppositional groups that often you find ways to keep things forever dead short of deific resurrection. Isn't there an organisation in the ELH whose leader explicitly has a stop resurrection artifact that you feed bodies too?

[Drelua]

Me and my gaming friends in high school did a level 70 game once, we spent all week making characters at home. I was something like a Ranger 20/Monk 20/Soulknife 20/Soulbolt 10 with a vow of poverty, not optimized but I was almost purely wisdom dependent so I could fly around raining death on my enemies pretty well. One guy was too lazy to make his character, so I made him an assassin that spent all his epic feats to get more sneak attack dice.

We played for like 2 hours then unanimously agreed to make a level 1 party. I was a wood elf fighter, and it was way more fun. So like everyone else said, you certainly can. The rules allow for it. But probably don't, though.

[Biggus]

If you face oppositional groups that often you find ways to keep things forever dead short of deific resurrection. Isn't there an organisation in the ELH whose leader explicitly has a stop resurrection artifact that you feed bodies too?

Yeah, the Garotte. Its leader can send you "beyond even the reach of greater gods".

A soul trapped in a devourer's chest "fades away until it evaporates completely" so maybe just keep one of them on staff. Or for the real bargain basement version a Barghest, which has a 50% chance each time to send you beyond the reach of mortal magic, so not many people are going to be coming back more than 2 or 3 times.