Good or Best or Favorite magical beast for training?

[bean illus]

What if you had a handle animal check of 77?

Which magical beast would you be excited to train? WHY?
Epic handle animal allows training magical beast on a check of 40 + HD, So the HD is up to 37.

[Anthrowhale]

If you can scrape up 3 more to your skill check the Sirrush (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/sirrush.htm) is pretty beefy. Initiative +23, Blindsight 300', AC 44, 5 attacks at +56 with power attack and pounce, SR 39, Fast heal 20, and a DC 47 Stun area attack.

[Geopol4r]

I would say not to waste your time on one big thing. My favorite is to train as many leopards at a time as possible. A hoard of leopards is hard to beat.

[bean illus]

I would say not to waste your time on one big thing. My favorite is to train as many leopards at a time as possible. A hoard of leopards is hard to beat.

I don't think there's anything against having multiple beast or animals trained, just directing them in a round. It's nice to have 1+ scouting, while 1+ is fighting, but if you want them to attack a certain enemy you need to spend an action.


But leopards can't even hit AC 44, and at 11th level, neither can anything else.

[Doctor Despair]

Terrasque takes a 78, right?

[Troacctid]

Magebred cows are probably the best value for your gold.

[Morty_Jhones]

If i could train any pet then it would have to be a flock of Wyverns or a Chimera.

not the best I know but I have always had a soft spot for the beasts after beating the **** out of one to serve as a mount....

I still miss the bugger.

[bean illus]

Terrasque takes a 78, right?

But due to epic handle animals +40 + HD for magical beast, the l8mit i asked for was 37.

Also, terrasque has an Int of 3, so can only learn a few tricks compared to some magical beast with Int 18+, who can take pretty specific instructions.


Magebred cows are probably the best value for your gold.

I suppose, if you intend to buy them. What are the rules on sneaking in and stealing a baby beast? Is it counted as treasure (probably)? Are there ruls for how much a magical beast cost against wbl?

But, again, compared to the sirrush the cows not particularly OP.


If i could train any pet then it would have to be a flock of Wyverns or a Chimera.

not the best I know but I have always had a soft spot for the beasts after beating the **** out of one to serve as a mount....

I still miss the bugger.

Yeah, flying mounts are cool. Better than trying to sneak across the country or into an adventure with a tarrasque.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A magebred warbeast titanic bat (fruit bat; they're adorable -- and they're largely frugivores) with a shrink collar (out of the A&EG). An adorable, Small-sized flying fox that is still just as strong as the original would make for a great pet-slash-bodyguard, if you were a good enough trainer to convince it to love you (and be quite careful of its surroundings -- especially you). 26 HD and 2,050 gp. And 10,000 gp for the collar. And if needed, you could always remove the shrink collar so it's Gargantuan-sized again. Who needs a jumbo jet when you've got a jumbo bat?

[bean illus]

A magebred warbeast titanic bat (...) with a shrink collar (out of the A&EG). An adorable, Small-sized flying fox that is still just as strong as the original would make for a great pet-slash-bodyguard, ... 26 HD and 2,050 gp. And if needed, you could always remove the shrink collar so it's Gargantuan-sized again.

2,050 for the collar or the bat?

[Troacctid]

I suppose, if you intend to buy them. What are the rules on sneaking in and stealing a baby beast? Is it counted as treasure (probably)? Are there ruls for how much a magical beast cost against wbl?
Anything that doesn't have a price tag attached to it, it's probably safe to assume you shouldn't be able to easily purchase one—you'd have to learn the location of a nest and go in and steal an egg or whatever, which is likely to be an adventure in itself.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

2,050 for the collar or the bat?Sorry, that's for the bat. I added the collar in and neglected to add in the collar's price. That's an extra 10,000 gp.

[edit] Fixed.

[bean illus]

Sorry, that's for the bat. I added the collar in and neglected to add in the collar's price. That's an extra 10,000 gp.

[edit] Fixed.

Where are you finding the price of creatures like the bat?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Where are you finding the price of creatures like the bat?The warbeast template (MMII) has the pricing for any creatures made using it, based on HD.

[bean illus]

The warbeast template (MMII) has the pricing for any creatures made using it, based on HD.

Max, are you using shrink animal to custom create a collar?
Does this line give us problems?

Target: One willing animal of Small, Medium, Large, or Huge size

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Max, are you using shrink animal to custom create a collar?
Does this line give us problems?

Target: One willing animal of Small, Medium, Large, or Huge sizeNo, the shrink collar is in the Arms & Equipment Guide (pg 80), and it explicitly works on animals. (Well, it works on Int-2 creatures and animal companions, anyway, with no restrictions on creature types.)

[mabriss lethe]

In a fun aside, Vermin Trainer from DotU is a neat way to control monstrous vermin. Warbeast can also apply to vermin, and helps you determine a price range for your pets. Very few classes have the right skill loadout to take the feat at first level, btw, but I think the best combination I've found is Deepwyrm Half Drow Marshal using the draconic aura ACF. (marshal auras won't work on vermin, but draconic ones do)

[bean illus]

In a fun aside, Vermin Trainer from DotU is a neat way to control monstrous vermin. Warbeast can also apply to vermin, and helps you determine a price range for your pets. Very few classes have the right skill loadout to take the feat at first level, btw, but I think the best combination I've found is Deepwyrm Half Drow Marshal using the draconic aura ACF. (marshal auras won't work on vermin, but draconic ones do)

It never occurred to me that i would have to pay for magical beast i acquired with handle animal. Really?
I guess i thought it was a benefit of the class skill, like a familiar or animal companion. If i have to pay for it, what's the use of epic handle animal?

I'm sure a sirrush s pretty pricey to buy, if you must buy one. So, that would mean an 11th level character CAN'T have a 37-40 HD pet?

[Anthrowhale]

It never occurred to me that i would have to pay for magical beast i acquired with handle animal. Really?
I guess i thought it was a benefit of the class skill, like a familiar or animal companion. If i have to pay for it, what's the use of epic handle animal?
Handle Animal is useful if you have an animal companion and it is potentially applicable to creatures you come across while adventuring.

I'm sure a sirrush s pretty pricey to buy, if you must buy one. So, that would mean an 11th level character CAN'T have a 37-40 HD pet?
The warbeast template gives pretty low prices for animals. For example, a 40HD animal would be 3100gp. It doesn't apply to a magical beast, but you could go for a Legendary Tiger (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/legendaryAnimal.htm).

[sreservoir]

Magebred cows are probably the best value for your gold.

This is pretty tangential, but are cows actually priced and statted somewhere?

[ExLibrisMortis]

This is pretty tangential, but are cows actually priced and statted somewhere?
I think you're supposed to use bison stats ("The bison’s statistics can be used for almost any large herd animal", MM1 page 270). The price is 10 gp, as per PHB page 112.

LoM page 101 offers a general formula for creature prices as bought from neogi. For a sirrush, the price runs 57 600 gp. That's a lot more expensive than the warbeast template (though still ridiculously cheap, of course) and the greater price may sound more reasonable to your DM.

As an aside, if you want to buy a cow from neogi, the price is 400 gp, which is around 40x market price. Buying from interplanetary/interplanar slave traders comes at a markup :smalltongue:.

[bean illus]

I feel like I'm missing part of this, somehow.

Anybody can buy a warbeast? They are already trained. What's the advantage of handle animal above 10-12, or 25-7 to push an animal, if it's already trained?

Anybody can buy a magebred? They are already trained. Is there a cost? What's the advantage of handle animal beyond 27?

Handle animal explicitly states "Rear a wild animal 15 + HD of animal". Does this have a wbl cost?

Handle animal also states "You can use this skill on a creature with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2 that is not an animal, but the DC of any such check increases by 5". So, 20 + HD?
What kind of creatures? Not vermin or magical beast? What kind ... ?

Because epic HA states:
Train magical beast 2 months 40 + HD
Rear vermin 6 months 35 + HD
Train vermin 2 months
50 + HD of vermin
Rear other creature Varies 40 + HD
Train other creature 2 months 60 + HD

And, what if the magical beast has more than 2 intelligence? Magebred and warbeast both have Int 2, but some magical beat have an Int much higher (the shirrush is 21).

Can such a creature be pushed to much more complex task? Obviously it can understand a language. Can it be pushed to 'deliver this letter to the farmer we met last July, just south of Boomtown'?
Can it learn a second language, with 21 Int? Can diplomacy be used on it?

And what's with "advancement"? How does that work?

[mabriss lethe]

It's a habit. When it comes to Handle Animal, a lot of posters tend to think in terms of things like Warbeast, because putting a price tag on it helps somewhat in adjudicating which creatures are level appropriate. It makes something abstract and nebulous into something easily quantified. It's not so much that you can buy it, but that assigning a gold cost to it helps put it into a bigger picture.

I should also edit to add:

As a general rule, if the creature has an INT of 3 or higher, you can't use Handle Animal on it. Nothing in the Epic rules runs counter to that. I think there might be some options that can break that rule, but I honestly don't recall. If it's 3 or higher you use diplomacy or intimidate to get it to do what you want. Anything with an intelligence of 3 or higher is considered to be sentient. they don't learn tricks, they just perform actions as an NPC.

Also, Epic Skill rules are bonkers. they're a 3.0 holdout grandfathered into 3.5 and they don't always mesh. They were "updated" but not really. If there's something that the basic skill allows that Epic throws a monkey wrench into, just ignore the epic rule. There was a good bit of functionality from epic rewritten to be rolled into the basic skill rules when they transitioned to 3.5.

[Bullet06320]

This is pretty tangential, but are cows actually priced and statted somewhere?

cows are priced at 10gp in the phb under trade goods in the begining of the eguiptment section

there's no actual stats, bison is the closest u get

Kingdoms of Kalamar - Dangerous Denizens - The Monsters of Tellene
has cow listed but says to use bison stats

they do have a bull listed, adds rage ability and gives an alternative attack if dehorned

[bean illus]

... 0, if the creature has an INT of 3 or higher, you can't use Handle Animal on it. Nothing in the Epic rules runs counter to that. ... . If it's 03 or higher you use diplomacy or intimidate to get it to do what you want. Anything with an intelligence of 3 or higher is considered to be sentient. they don't learn tricks, they just perform actions as an NPC.


Darn it. lol. I knew that, but forgot it somehow (again).



Also, Epic Skill rules are bonkers. they're a 3.0 holdout grandfathered into 3.5 and they don't always mesh. They were "updated" but not really. If there's something that the basic skill allows that Epic throws a monkey wrench into, just ignore the epic rule.

Hmmm. I always find it strange, that in a game where demons do your bidding, wish, time stop, and so much more, that if a martial gets a trick, it's nerfed (or canned).

I mean, some things i understand. Turning a mob of hostiles into fanatic followers in a round is pretty bonkers. But still, by the time a character can do that (well, and consistently) dedicated casters are bending time and space.

Anyway, i understand better, thanks.