Ranger (druid?) animal companion concerns

[Gruzzle]

I've been casually DMing on and off for years and haven't had any rangers or druid who've really used their animal companion until the current group. They've just hit level 5 and the ranger took the feat Boon Companion that brings his ape companion up to his level (instead of druid level -3). So instead of the ape leveling to level 2, it is up to level 5. I'm not sure if the player's a genius or if she's just calculating things incorrectly so I'd appreciate some crowd-sourcing on rules for this thing. The upgraded ape stat line(at level 4), with the animal companion stat increase going to the creature's Int score to bring it to the all-important 3, is STR 22 DEX 16 CON 14 INT 3 WIS 12 CHA 7. The three feats she's given it are Dodge, Light Armor proficiency, and Power Attack. She's said her next feat will be Improved Natural Attack (fists).

With all this her ranger's animal companion, with the purchase of a mundane chain shirt, brings the beast's AC to 22, higher than any PC in the party! 10base + 2 from ape +2 animal companion + 3 dex +1 dodge feat + 4 chain shirt.

It makes 3 attacks a round, 1 bite and 2 punches, all at +8 (3 BAB and 5 Strength mod) to hit (or +7 if power attacking), each doing 1d6+5(or +7 if PA) means that if it connects with all 3 it does a minimum 18 and up to a max of 33 damage in a round?!

The skill section I feel is almost certainly mis-distributed. She appears to have given it 17 total skill ranks distributed out with no more than 5 ranks in any skill. But I think the table indicates she only has 5 total ranks to distribute out. That seems a small amount of skill ranks though? Does this mean the ape can't have but a single skill that's kept up? Or a smattering of rank 1 skills? Also, do animal companions get the +3 to a skill along with the first rank invested, as long as it's a skill they're proficient in (like class skills?). I'd ruled that was the case back when she got this harmless little gorilla (I couldn't find it easily at the time so just ruled it and kept gaming) but if she actually does get 17 ranks, some of the skills this thing has are really high now!

So, please take a look and let me know if this looks right. That AC is gonna lead to some grumbles at my table for sure... the defacto group tank, a Samurai, just got upgraded heavy armor, and got it enchanted, and still gets beat by a literal monkey in a chain shirt.

[El Dorado]

The ape would have a total of 5 skill points. Some skills are class skills (Acrobatics, Climb, Perception, Stealth, and Swim) so it would get the +3 bonus. It wouldn't need more than 1 point in Climb or Swim (totaling +10 in each) with the rest going wherever.

Apes aren't skill monkeys.

[Kurald Galain]

It makes 3 attacks a round, 1 bite and 2 punches, all at +8 (3 BAB and 5 Strength mod) to hit (or +7 if power attacking), each doing 1d6+5(or +7 if PA) means that if it connects with all 3 it does a minimum 18 and up to a max of 33 damage in a round?!
At level 5? Sure, that sounds about right. AC 22 is also doable for PCs at that level.


That AC is gonna lead to some grumbles at my table for sure... the defacto group tank, a Samurai, just got upgraded heavy armor, and got it enchanted, and still gets beat by a literal monkey in a chain shirt.
The problem is not so much that the ape is overpowered, but that the samurai class kind of sucks. And if the sam focuses on tanking, he should get e.g. a ring of protection, amulet of natural armor, and shield (which would be well within his WBL at that level).

(edit) note that the ape's flaw is his accuracy; I would expect a level-5 character to have +10 or +11 to hit, not +7. The ape also likely has subpar saves and a perilously low will save.

[Morty_Jhones]

That and intersting feat, but I think you have caulated it wrong...

hes a ranger Level 5. Rangers normaly get an animal companion as if they was a druid of 3 levels lower than they are.

the feat Adds 4 to his level for deturmining the power of his animal companion up to his ECL as a max

so for animal companion he counts as a a level 9 ranger so he counts as a druid level 5 because thats max..

how ever the Ape is on the Druid level 4 chart so only gains the bonuse from Drid -3 (ie level 2)

so at the moment the Ape should not be getting any bonuse other than the single bonuse trick

when he levels up to level 6 and the beast then gets the druid level 3 bonuses then it will indead get the extra 2 HD and the resultant +1 Bab and +2 Fort and Ref saves. and one feat, since it comes with Alertness and toughness already.

Also as it is an Ape the only Class skills it has are Climb, Listen and Spot, as per the mm advancing monsters section so the only skills you can easly advance it in is going to be one of those to as it would only get 1Sp per HD (2+int mod, or -4 to a min of 1)

Also dispite the Apes humanoid form it is still an animal and so dosn't have any weapon or armour profishancies other than with its claws and bite. nether yeat dose it have enough bonuse HD to get any extra feats.

Also dont forget as an animal companion it is still subject to the rules for pets/hirlings and so must be given tricks from the animal handleing skill list or any extra you feal subject to add, though commanding it is a free action with bonuses and it is immune to the will save to remain in combat.

[Kurald Galain]

That and intersting feat, but I think you have caulated it wrong...

Please note the Pathfinder tag on the thread.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Please note the Pathfinder tag on the thread.

Unless I've gone completely blind, there isn't one. Boon Companion isn't a 3.5 feat, though. (The closest 3.5 equivalent is Natural Bond, which raises your effective Druid level by 3, up to your character level, but 3.5 Ranger levels only count for half for animal companions in the first place, so it's still not an exact match.)

[Drelua]

Yeah, animal companions can be fairly deadly, but they have weaknesses that are pretty easy to target, as others have pointed out. I think the problem here is that animal companions are just easier to build since there's less choices to make, and your players haven't made very effective characters. Tanking isn't really a great idea in 3.5 or Pathfinder, but a level 7 tank should easily have an AC in the 20s. Say, +1 full plate, +1 heavy shield, dodge, 12 dex, gets you to 25. Drop the shield, and you're still matching the ape.

They did mess up on the skill points though, they get 1 rank per HD because animals get 2+INT and should pretty much always have an INT penalty, but its minimum 1 per HD.

[Malacandra]

Unless I've gone completely blind, there isn't one.

Do you know a good optician?

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Huh, somehow I'd never noticed that the tag goes away once you're in the thread. So I looked at the OP, didn't see the tag, and called it a day.:smalleek: How embarrasing. :smalltongue: