Help to price some rings

[Trandir]

I am helping my DM (system Pathfinder 1e) to price some rings and I have trouble doing so for how weird the effects and limitations are. Here are the rings:

Ring of supreme might: "If the wearer has at least 20 Strength, his current HP are at least equal to his maximum HP, is Lawful, wields a greatsword, they gain the following effect: the wearer gains a +5 luck bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls and saving throws"

My idea for the price is about 100k gp

Ring of prideful defense: "if the wearer has at least 20 Constitution, his current HP are at least equal to his max HP, is Chaotic, wears light or medium armor and wields a greataxe, they gain the following bonuses: +5 luck bonus to AC and Bull Rush, Sunder and Trip combat maneuvers checks"

My idea for the price is about 20-30k gp

Ring of the death touched: "if the wearer has at least 20 charisma, his current HP are at least equal to his maximum HP, is True Neutral, has chosen the death domain or has the undead bloodline or has the bones mystery or is a wizard of the necromancy school, they gain the following bonuses: ER 15 cold, immunity to paralysis, sleep and enchantment effects, immunity to nonlethal damage and mindless undead can't notice the wearer"

My idea for the price is about 40k gp

Ring of healthiness: "if the wearer has at least 20 Wisdom, his current HP are at least equal to his max HP, is Neutral, is an arcane spellcaster, they gain the following bonuses: +5 to saves against fatigue and exhaustion effects and immunity to all diseases and poisons"

My idea for the price is about 10k gp

Any idea of if my prices would be fair for these rings?

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[zlefin]

how does temp hp factor in the rings effects? Does having temp hp that puts you over your max hp turn them off? or does temp hp have no effect on whether the ring is active?

I agree it's very hard to price them accurately due to the irregular limitations. In particular the hp restriction is significant enough to warrant a substantial discount, but I don't have a good feel for how often it would be active in a fight (and for how that would vary if a chars build synergizes with it). luck bonus is uncommon, so it stacks very well, and a +5 is a big deal.

Your prices do seem reasonable to me; only playtesting would reveal whether they're much better or worse than that.

from a game design perspective its generally bad to have variable bonuses like that, it makes it even harder to track stats during combat and make sure each roll has the correct modifiers; and some of them will have weird interactions with the toggle effect: eg you're injured, then you're hit with a poison that does ability damage, then you're hp is all healed; what happens to the effects of the poison? do they go away? if you're still taking secondary damage from the poison does it just stop it from proc'ing?

[Trandir]

how does temp hp factor in the rings effects? Does having temp hp that puts you over your max hp turn them off? or does temp hp have no effect on whether the ring is active?

I agree it's very hard to price them accurately due to the irregular limitations. In particular the hp restriction is significant enough to warrant a substantial discount, but I don't have a good feel for how often it would be active in a fight (and for how that would vary if a chars build synergizes with it). luck bonus is uncommon, so it stacks very well, and a +5 is a big deal.

Your prices do seem reasonable to me; only playtesting would reveal whether they're much better or worse than that.

from a game design perspective its generally bad to have variable bonuses like that, it makes it even harder to track stats during combat and make sure each roll has the correct modifiers; and some of them will have weird interactions with the toggle effect: eg you're injured, then you're hit with a poison that does ability damage, then you're hp is all healed; what happens to the effects of the poison? do they go away? if you're still taking secondary damage from the poison does it just stop it from proc'ing?

I updated the wording. They are intended to work as long as your non temporary hit points are equal to your maximum hit points. So I changed it to "at least equal" rather than "equal" so despite the THP being counted false life now won't deactivate the rings. And thanks for the help

[Another_Lurker]

These all seem decidedly overcomplicated in terms of the rules, and vastly undercosted. The maximum discount PF1e accounts for in its rules text is 30% off for the item only being useable by members of a specific Alignment, or Class. The Lloyd's setup is is flavorful, but I don't think that it's worth a further discount between these rings either stacking with the Big Six or granting several continuous spell effects given that they're clearly tailored to only work for specific members of your party.

[Trandir]

These all seem decidedly overcomplicated in terms of the rules, and vastly undercosted. The maximum discount PF1e accounts for in its rules text is 30% off for the item only being useable by members of a specific Alignment, or Class. The Lloyd's setup is is flavorful, but I don't think that it's worth a further discount between these rings either stacking with the Big Six or granting several continuous spell effects given that they're clearly tailored to only work for specific members of your party.

To be fair these are tailored for the NPCs. Nobody in the party can use any of these rings

[Seto]

They're extremely swingy, given that they provide powerful effects that are all invalidated the moment someone casts Magic Missile at you. The first two especially suffer from the HP clause, because they're meant for melee.
I know I wouldn't want to buy any of them at the listed price, especially not the first ring, unless I maybe have very high and comprehensive defenses, or a very efficient healer in the party. But then again, your prices seem more or less consistent with how Pathfinder would price such an item.

Ultimately though, pricing those items precisely is unnecessary. They're designed to give arbitrary ad-hoc bonuses to NPCs, which your GM can just do by decreeing it. The PCs can't use them, so the only reason to price them is for selling them if you kill the NPCs and loot them (are they friendly NPCs or enemies?). For that purpose, I'd say the GM can just arbitrarily price them depending on the NPC's expected WBL. So really what you need is a rough, rough estimate.

[Trandir]

They're extremely swingy, given that they provide powerful effects that are all invalidated the moment someone casts Magic Missile at you. The first two especially suffer from the HP clause, because they're meant for melee.
I know I wouldn't want to buy any of them at the listed price, especially not the first ring, unless I maybe have very high and comprehensive defenses, or a very efficient healer in the party. But then again, your prices seem more or less consistent with how Pathfinder would price such an item.

Ultimately though, pricing those items precisely is unnecessary. They're designed to give arbitrary ad-hoc bonuses to NPCs, which your GM can just do by decreeing it. The PCs can't use them, so the only reason to price them is for selling them if you kill the NPCs and loot them (are they friendly NPCs or enemies?). For that purpose, I'd say the GM can just arbitrarily price them depending on the NPC's expected WBL. So really what you need is a rough, rough estimate.

Yes but there is one last reason as to why the price is needed "to not screw up the WBL of the NPC". If the item is worth 100k or 10k that changes a lot in what the rest of their gear should be.

[King of Nowhere]

there is an argument for how much further limitations should affect prices. but they certainly should not discount it, or you could craft an item that works only for you, and save a lot of money in the process.
In fact, I'd argue that such strict limitations actually entail a higher price: not only you have your perfectly good item, but if your foes manage to take it from you, they can't use it against you. It's like having a gun that will only shoot if it recognizes your fingerprint on the trigger.

the limitation is that they only work if you're full hp. A single area effect will easily disable all of them. kinda hard to price for this reason. I think your starting prices are a fairly decent estimate.