Necro-Gish Ideas?

[Nightgaun7]

One of my players wants to play a Necromancer who is more "Wack them in melee with my undead bros" than "Cackle behind my 9001 skeletons". What's the best way to build this?

[cutlery]

The list of all necromancy spells is here (https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells?filter-class=0&filter-search=&filter-school=9&filter-verbal=&filter-somatic=&filter-material=&filter-concentration=&filter-ritual=&filter-sub-class=&sort=level); I'd look for a few that feel right, then build the class that has access to most of them. It isn't a very long list.

Could be a blade warlock, could be a fighter/wizard or fighter/sorcerer, or could be a death or grave cleric.


The easy choice might be Fighter (eldritch knight) and levels in wizard with necromancy, either a 7/13 split and using war magic to cast a scag cantrip and bonus action attack, or 11/9 and going with three attacks. Shadow blade isn't necromancy, but might be thematic enough for them, and it scales nicely with extra attacks.


The other thing you could do (if they want this much melee) is let them have necromancy as one of their unrestricted schools for an eldritch knight. Depends on how much casting they want.

[MinotaurWarrior]

If they / you are still going full zombie army, the best bet is probably just being small, riding a medium mount, using booming blade, mount-disengaging every turn, and then moving to the back line.

You're squishy? That's fine, because anything that wants to hit you will have to eat a ton of OAs.

The bigger issue isn't the caster being in melee, it's the skeletons / zombies. Putting them in harms ways increases the logistical issues.

[Bobthewizard]

They should look at the Oathbreaker paladin. I think it's exactly what you describe. Paladin's melee, an aura that gives your charisma bonus to undead attacks, and animate dead at level 9.

[RogueJK]

Sounds a lot like a Death Cleric, which is a melee-oriented Necromancer type. The main drawback is that, unlike the Necromancer Wizard, you don't get any abilities that boost the capabilities of your undead minions, nor will you get any undead other than zombies/skeletons, so you'll quickly reach a point where they're little more than single-hit meat shields.

As a result, something like a Necromancer Wizard with a level of Fighter would likely be better for the minions' survivability/usefulness. Take the level of Fighter first for CON save proficiency, since you'll want that to keep up your Concentration while fighting on the front lines. And lean on Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade, since you won't be getting Extra Attack.


They should look at the Oathbreaker paladin. I think it's exactly what you describe. Paladin's melee, an aura that gives your charisma bonus to undead attacks, and animate dead at level 9.

Seems like a decent option, akin to the Death Cleric with a bit better melee in exchange for less spellcasting. But if you're wanting to focus on raising undead, waiting until 9th level to be able to do it could be disappointing, especially if the campaign ends shortly afterwards, as many do. And like the Death Cleric, base zombies/skeletons won't last long, especially at Level 9+ play.

[jojosskul]

Do they want JUST zombie/skeleton bros or do they want the high level undead from Create Undead as well?

If it's the former, any type of Cleric with heavy armor works. They get Animate Dead and can go mix it up with some spirit guardians while their zombies claw and bite down the opposition, or later on just shove them to the ground so they can never actually escape your spirit guardians.

If they wants more powerful undead later then you'll have to go the Wizard/Sorcerer route. Yeah I think Warlock gets Create Undead but they can't upcast it.

It's a bit easier, in my opinion, to make a more resilent sorcerer than it is to make a non-squishy wizard. Go draconic sorcerer. AC 13+ dex for free, extra +1 hp every level means you have the equivalent of a D8 instead of a D6 hit die on average. Also Con saves built right in. He's going to be getting hit more than your average backline necromancer, so Con saves to keep concentration will be key.

I'd probably go Green. Most of your undead will be poison immune so you don't have to worry about catching them in your AOEs, and since he wants to be mixing it up with them Poison Spray, for once, makes sense as a cantrip.

Also, as much as I hate to say it if he wants to be a Necromancer GISH take your second level in hexblade. Shields and Medium armor and you become Charisma SAD, so he can melee attack if he really wants to.

Hope this helps!

[RogueJK]

It's a bit easier, in my opinion, to make a more resilent sorcerer than it is to make a non-squishy wizard. Go draconic sorcerer. AC 13+ dex for free, extra +1 hp every level means you have the equivalent of a D8 instead of a D6 hit die on average. Also Con saves built right in. He's going to be getting hit more than your average backline necromancer, so Con saves to keep concentration will be key.

I think Shadow Sorcerer is likely as good or better of an option than Draconic, especially if you're going to be taking a level of Hexblade and gaining Medium Armor. Strength of the Grave would be handy for a frontline Sorcerer. And it certainly fits better thematically with a Necromancer than the dragon/element-themed Draconic bloodline. You could even reflavor the Hound of Ill Omen to be some sort of undead creation.

[jojosskul]

I think Shadow Sorcerer is likely as good or better of an option than Draconic, especially if you're going to be taking a level of Hexblade and gaining Medium Armor. Strength of the Grave would be handy for a frontline Sorcerer. And it certainly fits better thematically with a Necromancer than the dragon/element-themed Draconic bloodline. You could even reflavor the Hound of Ill Omen to be some sort of undead creation.

I think you're right. I was writing things out as a more stream of consciousness thing and added hexblade at the end there. If you're adding hexblade shadow sorcerer makes a ton more sense, especially since it gives you a similar ability to your zombies. I do think if you're wanting to stay pure sorcerer to not slow down your progression draconic works better, but hexblade makes too much sense here not to take it. And for once hexblade is thematic with it's Shadowfell elements.

Damn it now I want to play this character.

[saucerhead]

They should look at the Oathbreaker paladin. I think it's exactly what you describe. Paladin's melee, an aura that gives your charisma bonus to undead attacks, and animate dead at level 9.

I like this idea, I was going to suggest Ritual Caster feat too, but unfortunately few of the necro-spells are rituals.

[Gtdead]

Oathbreaker is exactly what you are looking for... but! It comes online at lvl 9 and zombies at T3, especially with the limited paladin slots, aren't anything to write home about.

Perhaps a githyanki necromancer. Has medium armor, can wield longswords/greatswords (stats are going to be a mess with pointbuy, give him a str boosting item). IIt technically comes online at lvl 5 (6 is more likely). By lvl 11 he can have a small army of zombies, pop tenser's tranformation and have some fun with his undead bros. At higher levels he can be bffs with a Deathknight (may need a feeblemind first, so he will be a bit dumb, but a bff nevertheless).

[Nightgaun7]

Thanks guys.

Two things:

1) What's the best way to have one or two big beefy undead buddies instead of a horde?

2) Player had decided to be a mountain dwarf for his race

[Dork_Forge]

I'd go with Necromancy Wizard, you're getting medium armor and some weapons from being a Dwarf anyway, take one or both SCAGtrips to boost melee ability. Dealing with the squishiness inherent to Wizards in this case is actually pretty thematic: False Life, a Necromancy spell that gives you Temp hp. Since they'll already have medium armor then the slot and spell known that would have gone to Mage Armor can now go to False Life early on (at 5th level up when you can create your undead, you may want Mage Armor so you can toughen them up a bit).

When it comes to undead I'd start out with at least one zombie since they're harder to take down, Mage Armor should help their abyssmal AC, in combat it should be used to try and knock opponents prone when possible to give the weapon wielding skeleton and the SCAGtrip using Wizard advantage.

This build wouldn't really get that much out of Int besides spells known, so I'd focus on Str and Con, leaving int around a 14 for the most part, as levels go up, trade out the undead for more powerful ones, theme Find Familiar as an undead bird or something.

[RogueJK]

1) What's the best way to have one or two big beefy undead buddies instead of a horde?

The 3rd level Unearthed Arcana Wizard/Warlock spell Summon Undead (short duration though)

or

The 6th Level Wizard/Cleric/Warlock spell Create Undead (being basically the higher level Animate Dead)

or

Necromancer Wizard's 14th Level ability to Command Undead to make a single powerful undead being his thrall

or

Oathbreaker Paladin using Channel Divinity to Control Undead and enthrall a single level-appropriate undead for 24 hours. (Then just hope it keeps failing its WIS save every day, and be prepared to put it down if necessary...)

[Greywander]

One of my players wants to play a Necromancer who is more "Wack them in melee with my undead bros" than "Cackle behind my 9001 skeletons". What's the best way to build this?
To echo what others have said, this instantly suggests an Oathbreaker paladin to me. You're a paladin, so wading into melee is your bread and butter. And not only do you get Animate Dead, but you can boost your undead minions with Aura of Hate.


Thanks guys.

Two things:

1) What's the best way to have one or two big beefy undead buddies instead of a horde?
For this, however, you want Necromancer wizard. Specifically, you should look at their 14th level feature, Command Undead. This allows you to take control of an undead permanently. You want to look for something with an INT of 11 or less, otherwise it gets to repeat its save periodically (i.e. it's not permanent). There are a couple of juicy options here: an ancient white dracolich, a mummy lord, or a nightwalker all have an INT of 11 or less. I think there's few other nice options out there are well. You will have to track down the monster in question to enslave it, you can't just create one, but this could make for a fun side quest.

Oathbreaker paladins get something similar for one of their channel divinity options, but sadly it isn't permanent.


2) Player had decided to be a mountain dwarf for his race
This gets him medium armor (but not shields) without need to take a feat or multiclass. This means you'll have decent, but not amazing AC if you go wizard. Unfortunately, wizards have little business being in melee, as you're almost always better off casting a spell than making a weapon attack, and not many of your spells need to be in melee range. You can make a tough melee wizard, just not with a Necromancer. Abjuration, War Magic, or even Evocation do this better (evokers have a pretty killer Thunderclap for clearing out mooks).

Since we only need 14 levels in wizard, we might be able to do something with the other 6 levels. Unfortunately, that means you don't come online until very late. Also unfortunately, wizard is not a very good class to multiclass with. A single dip into cleric is about the only good dip for a wizard (fighter and warlock are good, but not as good as cleric). If there was a sorcerer subclass that got Command Undead, I would definitely recommend a sorcadin build; quicken a nasty spell to debilitate your enemies, then jump into melee with a twinned Booming Blade, smiting on both hits.

[Kemev]

Thanks guys.

Two things:

1) What's the best way to have one or two big beefy undead buddies instead of a horde?

2) Player had decided to be a mountain dwarf for his race

Honestly, they could just play straight hexblade. I think everyone forgets about its other class features after level 1, but the hexblade's Accursed Specter is one of the better pets a player can get. Warlock's don't get animate dead, but they do get create undead later on (if the game runs past 10).

Mountain dwarf isn't a great starting point for hexblades though.

[Ason]

Another option is to play an Echo Knight Fighter and reflavor the echo as an undead minion the character channels their dark power through.

[Sception]

There's not really a good way to do 'one or two beefy undead buddies' in pure PC stuff. If you're a DM looking to enable this, I'd look at the sidekick rules from the upcoming Tasha's book, which iirc have been previewed. I would only go this route if the party is small enough to offer minions/pets/special moutns via sidekick rules to the other PCs should they want them.

I'd otherwise recommend oathbreaker paladin, with a bit of homebrew. For instance, it should be reasonable to allow them to summon/animate a skeletal warhorse with the Find Steed spell instead of a regular warhorse. The skeletal version's a bit stronger, but not by enough that it should make a meaningful difference at levels 5+ when they get the spell, and they do have the same challenge rating. You could also do a variant of the knight background where the character's retainers are non-combatant undead minions. Or even combatant undead minions if combined with the sidekick rules, though again only in smaller parties and only if other pcs are cool with it or get their own minions.

Flavoring items can also help with this. Magic armor made of magically shaped bone, a magic shield with the spirit of a dead knight bound to it, 'gauntlets of ogre strength' that take the form of undead grafts, etc.

beyond that, paladins are a high cha class with persuasion and intimidate as class skills. They can always just try to persuade or bully undead npcs into being allies instead of enemies. When I play lawful evil paladins I usually open every fight with a persuasion attempt and close every fight with a 'surrender or die' intimidate attempt, and depending on the DM I can pick up all kinds of 'friends'. Yes this often results in a few wasted actions, but with a DM willing to play along it can lead to some fun and exciting shenanigans. In Avernus I picked up a bunch of hobgoblin road warriors and a nightmare steed. In Barovia I made friends with some werewolves, some revenants, and a few angry mobs with torches & pitch forks. In a homebrew game I accumulated a coven of vampiric retainers. Sure, there'd be the occasional dramatic betrayal, but that makes for fun and interesting game play too.

This sort of thing is very DM dependent of course, but you're the DM, so you can provide the opportunity.


If not a paladin, then hexblades, bladesinger wizards, war clerics, multiclass eldritch knight/necromancers, battlesmith/necromancers, hexblade/paladins, and paladin/sorcerers can all work this concept reasonably well.

In previous editions, there used to be more explicit options for this sort of thing. The 'bone knight' prestige class from a 3.5e eberron expansion being my favorite example. You could look at that for inspiration to design a home brew paladin oath or variant of the eldritch knight fighter subclass.