Conquest Hexblade? Where to start, when to change?

[Zotharius]

I have a group thats planning to start a new campaign at lvl 1 and proceed into another one thatll take us all the way to 20 (Yes if we are lucky to get that far) and was planning to make a conquest paladin / hexblade. My issue is I have no idea when to take which levels.

After racials,my stats ended up looking like this: Vuman: 16 8 14 8 9 18. (32 pointbuy) If I want the DM will let me swap some numbers as we havent actually started the campaign (in the event that I start hexblade and ditch heavy armor for medium.)

So... thing is paladin and lock both seem to progress really well as a monoclass and I cant figure out where to start. Warlock 3-5? Run 8 14 16 8 9 18, relying on scag cantrips til pally or lock 5? Or start with the original scores and paladin up til... idk, 7/9? Then dip hexblade? All I know is I only want 1, 3 or 5 levels of hexblade..

I'm thinking about starting with GWM at lvl 1 , maxing CHA at first ASI and then grabbing either Resilient Con or War Caster if I start hexblade. If I start pally... idrk

Help / advice???

Oh! And the goal is a Greatsword dps (I just dont like polearms)

[LordNibbler]

If you want to use a great sword, you need to get to Hexblade 3 quickly so your Hex Warrior weapon can be two-handed. If you want heavy armor, that would mean starting with a level of Paladin then going into Hexblade. Many people would go P1-H1-P6 to get to the protective auras. You would have to be okay with sword and board until character level 9 (P6H3) to do that. It does get you to the extra attack at P5 quicker though.

[Unoriginal]

I have a group thats planning to start a new campaign at lvl 1 and proceed into another one thatll take us all the way to 20 (Yes if we are lucky to get that far) and was planning to make a conquest paladin / hexblade. My issue is I have no idea when to take which levels.

After racials, my stats ended up looking like this: 16 8 14 8 9 18. (32 pointbuy) If I want the DM will let me swap some numbers as we havent actually started the campaign (in the event that I start hexblade and ditch heavy armor for medium.)

So... thing is paladin and lock both seem to progress really well as a monoclass and I cant figure out where to start. Warlock 3-5? Run 8 14 16 8 9 18, relying on scag cantrips til pally or lock 5? Or start with the original scores and paladin up til... idk, 7/9? Then dip hexblade? All I know is I only want 1, 3 or 5 levels of hexblade..

Help / advice???

Oh! And the goal is a Greatsword dps (I just dont like polearms)

I'd advise to start with Paladin. 16 STR, 14 CON and 18 CHA is pretty nice for a lvl 1 Paladin, heavy armor is good and doesn't need to be ditched, and the Paladin's starting HPs are worthwhile.

Oftentime the first multiclass point is after the Extra Attack.


If you want to use a great sword, you need to get to Hexblade 3 quickly so your Hex Warrior weapon can be two-handed.

Oh yeah, had forgotten that.

In that case it's probably better to go Hexblade 3 and Paladin after.

EDIT: the Tasha's will most likely contain the invocation that let the Warlock select an armor and be proficient in it.

[Chugger]

I you want heavy duty smiting and lots of it, you need slots - you need sorc levels for that, not warlock levels. If you want meta magic flexibility, you need sorc levels. From where I sit, sorcadin (maybe w/ a 1 dip in hex for SADness, a 3 dip for 2hnd weapon use) is better than pal-lock (is it padlock?). Sure you get some nice stuff going up the hexblade tree more - but imho you get better stuff going very deep into sorc.

[cutlery]

Hexblade is SAD which makes things easier. A level of paladin gets you heavy armor (if taken first); two get you smite (so you can skip an invocation), and two long rest level 1 slots you might use for shield.

If you only plan to go two levels into paladin, I'd consider those levels in fighter instead.

If you want to go 6 levels to get the saves aura, that's different. I'd do Pal1 (for armor), w1 or w2 (eldritch blast, a SCAG cantrip) then make a beeline for pal 5 and 6; extra attack and the aura.

Alternately, you could do p1 -> w5 (extra attack) -> p5, then w6 (to swap the invocation) p6 (the aura), then however you want to finish. Warlock (if pact of the blade) lets you gain extra attack then drop it at next warlock level if you get it from another source, which is handy.

Spell progression will suffer, and you'll delay access to either improved divine smite or lifedrinker; which might sting in Tier 3.

If you'll be eldritch blasting most of the time it won't hurt as much, but that doesn't sound like the concept.

Whether you need long rest or short rest slots most for smiting will depend on the table. If it is long rest slots, you might be better served by going some other full caster; but pure paladin (or pure warlock) has better at will damage than a multiclass at levels 11 and 12.

[Zotharius]

I you want heavy duty smiting and lots of it, you need slots - you need sorc levels for that, not warlock levels. If you want meta magic flexibility, you need sorc levels. From where I sit, sorcadin (maybe w/ a 1 dip in hex for SADness, a 3 dip for 2hnd weapon use) is better than pal-lock (is it padlock?). Sure you get some nice stuff going up the hexblade tree more - but imho you get better stuff going very deep into sorc.

Well the reason I was looking at lock was SaDness with the option to dump Str, and grab Dex for better saves, skills and initiative as well as short-rest slots and invocations. I also get to run darkness / Devil's sight if I'm so inclined. All at the cost of only 3-5 levels, allowing me to not worry too much about caster progression or dipping enough levels for sorc points. I love sorcadins, but this time around, im lookin at that juicy hexblade.

[cutlery]

Well the reason I was looking at lock was SaDness with the option to dump Str, and grab Dex for better saves, skills and initiative as well as short-rest slots and invocations. I also get to run darkness / Devil's sight if I'm so inclined. All at the cost of only 3-5 levels, allowing me to not worry too much about caster progression or dipping enough levels for sorc points. I love sorcadins, but this time around, im lookin at that juicy hexblade.

Then lean in; go for GWM and try all those ways warlock has to get advantage. Vengeance paladin seems like a nice choice.

If you go 3 levels, you may as well go 5, and if you go 5 you may as well go 6.

That gets you 4 level 1 slots and 2 level 2 slots for shields and misty steps, though, and just pour the rest in warlock.

[Zotharius]

Hexblade is SAD which makes things easier. A level of paladin gets you heavy armor (if taken first); two get you smite (so you can skip an invocation), and two long rest level 1 slots you might use for shield.

If you only plan to go two levels into paladin, I'd consider those levels in fighter instead.

If you want to go 6 levels to get the saves aura, that's different. I'd do Pal1 (for armor), w1 or w2 (eldritch blast, a SCAG cantrip) then make a beeline for pal 5 and 6; extra attack and the aura.

Alternately, you could do p1 -> w5 (extra attack) -> p5, then w6 (to swap the invocation) p6 (the aura), then however you want to finish. Warlock (if pact of the blade) lets you gain extra attack then drop it at next warlock level if you get it from another source, which is handy.

Spell progression will suffer, and you'll delay access to either improved divine smite or lifedrinker; which might sting in Tier 3.

If you'll be eldritch blasting most of the time it won't hurt as much, but that doesn't sound like the concept.

Whether you need long rest or short rest slots most for smiting will depend on the table. If it is long rest slots, you might be better served by going some other full caster; but pure paladin (or pure warlock) has better at will damage than a multiclass at levels 11 and 12.

You make some pretty good points and honestly I was originally going to do Pure Conquest Pally, but the Madness was driving me crazy. High CHA cus Spell Save DCs are more important with that subclass, but then STR cus DMG.. aaggghhhh lol. Hexblade looked like a solution to my issues

[cutlery]

You make some pretty good points and honestly I was originally going to do Pure Conquest Pally, but the Madness was driving me crazy. High CHA cus Spell Save DCs are more important with that subclass, but then STR cus DMG.. aaggghhhh lol. Hexblade looked like a solution to my issues

Hexblade makes it hard to do anything else.

I'd try to take a step back and think about what sorts of things you want to do. Do you want to be a heavy armor smiter? You can do that as pure paladin. Do you want to capitalize on GWM and lay smites on crits? Hexblade or pal/hexblade works well for this. You get big slots back on short rests so you'll often have one or two in the tank, and the spell selection is really great.

The more levels in class #2 you take, the more you delay your at-will damage (IDS or lifedrinker), but if you're playing the gain advantage and use GWM game, that matters a bit less.

[Unoriginal]

Well the reason I was looking at lock was SaDness with the option to dump Str, and grab Dex for better saves, skills and initiative as well as short-rest slots and invocations. I also get to run darkness / Devil's sight if I'm so inclined. All at the cost of only 3-5 levels, allowing me to not worry too much about caster progression or dipping enough levels for sorc points. I love sorcadins, but this time around, im lookin at that juicy hexblade.

My question would be: what do you want out of the Paladin? 'cause I don't think the class helps with any of those things.


You make some pretty good points and honestly I was originally going to do Pure Conquest Pally, but the Madness was driving me crazy. High CHA cus Spell Save DCs are more important with that subclass, but then STR cus DMG.. aaggghhhh lol. Hexblade looked like a solution to my issues

You got a 16, a 18 and a 14 at lvl 1, you got the MAD part taken care of already.


Hexblade really doesn't solve any of the issues you mentioned. At best it makes you depends on Warlock levels rather than on stats where you already have enough.

[Frogreaver]

I recommend polearm master with a shield and spear. This reduces Hexblade requirement to level 1.

[Xeko]

So, I'm confused by what you're looking for. You describe the concept, but... you don't need to multiclass at all to get that. And then when you describe your issues with going pure paladin, but Hexblade isn't a solution to those. And, in the title of the thread, you specify Conquest Paladin, but nowhere in the thread have you mentioned anything related to the Conquest Paladin's abilities. Other posters have commented on all kinds of things, the Warlock's beefy spell slots for smites, or the way invocations can be swapped out at level up to suit your needs, and all of that. But I'm not sure if any of that is actually helpful, without knowing your actual goal.

So, if, like you say, your primary focus, is just a greatsword DPS, you can do that with pure Hexblade. Take defensive spells like shield, misty step, blink, mirror image, blur, et cetera. Medium armor with shield can get you 19 AC pretty easily, and all the defensive buff spells stack with one another. And, if you have spell slots to spare (which will be rare, as a Warlock), Eldritch Smite is good burst damage. And you have a lot of out of combat utility with all the other spells at the warlock's fingertips. Paladin doesn't offer you much in this scenario. If all you want is a greatsword hack and slasher, you don't need the Paladin at all.

However, if you're looking for more crowd control options (which I suspect was your intention, putting Conquest in the thread title), things become a bit more complicated... I will say, however, that "Cause Fear" and "Fear" are available a lot earlier for a Warlock than they are for a Paladin.

[cutlery]

So, if, like you say, your primary focus, is just a greatsword DPS, you can do that with pure Hexblade.

Minor caveat; you can't get charisma to hit/damage with a greatsword until warlock 3 and the blade pact if you go this route, you are forced to use strength. However, you can two-hand a longsword in the meantime (or use a shield, depending on how deadly the table feels).

[Sception]

If you're looking to just DPS with a greatsword, consider instead pure hexblade, or a mix of hexblade and a more damage oriented paladin oath. Good choices that maintain the gothy spooky edginess of a conqueror include vengeance paladin (advantage from the CD makes crits easier, which leads to even more damage from GWM and divine smite) or oathbreaker paladin (multiclassed with hexblade you can eventually be triple stacking charisma damage on each hit).

For great swording specifically I'd lean vengeance. Better synergy with great weapon master. Oathbreaker can swing a greatsword if they like, but their flat bonus to damage on every hit from their level 7 aura tends to synergize better with the extra attacks you can get out of polearm master. Though, of course, you can eventually stack both with a glaive or halberd.


Conquest itself is a bit more of a tanking oath. Yes it has extra damage features - spiritual weapon as an oath spell, passive damage on frightened targets in their aura - but these things tend to conflict with other, stronger sources of potential damage. Spiritual weapon conflicts with other sources of bonus action attacks - including both great weapon master and polearm master - while the aura requires you to first successfully frighten targets, which means you're going to be burning actions and maybe spell slots to frighten targets instead of damaging them before the aura can even come into effect, plus you'll have to prioritize boosting your save DC and concentration saves over ASI investments in damage as well.

And honestly? When a conqueror has locked down an enemy with their aura, especially with difficult-to-escape effects like wrathful smite or fear, those enemies are generally beaten already - they just don't know it yet. It doesn't matter too much whether you kill them fast with a big sword or slow with a little sword at that point, so you might as well beat them slow with a little sword and optimize for defense instead.


So yeah, conqueror is great, but it's more of a tanky, controlly oath rather than a pure damage train. With smites a conqueror still can deal damage when they need to, but among paladins it's specialty is dragging fights out by bullying and boxing in weak willed foes, not ending them fast by smashing down the strong ones.



You also have the issue that hexblade isn't going to kick in for a great weapon until level 3. With your stats that's not a major problem, but you probably want to take some hexblade levels earlier than you otherwise might.


I'd try for something like:

Vuman Great Weapon Master (because you wanna sword big)
Paladin 2 (for heavy armor, proficiencies, divine smite)
Hexblade 3(booming blade, shield, hex warrior, hexblade's curse, blade pact, 2 short rest slots & some invocations)
Paladin +4 (oath of vengeance, +2 cha, extra attack, find steed, aura of protection)

At this point you're level 9 and can go in any number of directions.

More paladin - better hp, improved divine smite, eventually improved find steed.

More paladin plus Transition to Oathbreaker (if DM allows) - abandon your oath of vengeance in favor of the irredeemable evil of compassion and forgiveness, gaining paladin stuff plus trading your advantage CD (you can have see through darkness from warlock levels at this point if you need to generate advantage another way) for more cha damage on your cha damage. Arguably better with polearm master, but still kicks butt with a greatsword.

More hexblade - higher damage short rest smites, more invocations, cool hexblade features like making ghosty friends of your enemies, eventual bladelock invocation for cha damage on your cha damage

Shadow sorcerer - spooky, cool, better daily slot progression for spells & smites, shadow hound to force disadvantage on saves, good for hold person into auto crit smites (annoy your friends by singing "it's beginning to look a lot like crit-smites" whenever an enemy fails a save against hold person)

Divine Soul Sorcerer - like shadow sorcerer (you can even force disadvantage on saves with heighten metamagic instead of the hound, though your sorcery points are generally better spent on twinned or quickened buff spells) but slightly less spooky cool for arguably better features, including eventual access to spirit guardians which is silly good.

whisper bard - spooky, cool, boost your skills for out of combat versatility, options to buff allies or stack damage with bardic inspiration.

sword bard - like whisper bard but less spooky cool for arguably better features

~~~

Or really any combination of the above. At paladin 6 / warlock 3 your character is already pretty set, and you can honestly feel free to experiment or just take levels based purely on narrative inclination.

[cutlery]

More paladin plus Transition to Oathbreaker (if DM allows) - abandon your oath of vengeance in favor of the irredeemable evil of compassion and forgiveness


I am amused.