Giant Octopus reach mechanics

[Chugger]

Thinking about giant octopus encounter and realized that I'm not sure, RAW, how they actually work. I can "common sense" my way through this but am curious how other people would rule.

Giant Octo has 15' reach and grapples/restrains if they hit. So if a target is hit at the full 15' distance, on its turn (it has 5' reach) can it hit the Giant Octo at all? Technically it's restrained at 15' distance from the Octo's body. But of course the Octo is using a body part, a tentacle, to restrain it.

And yes one could be tempted to homebrew a "x slashing damage in one blow = tentacle severed" rule, but I don't want to do that.

So clearly a grappled/restrained target should be able to attack the octo because it's using a body part to do that (with all effects those conditions impose), or ... can it?

Now can giant octo, which has very slow land movement rate, rotate or move its tentacles and move the target, once it is grappled/restrained - and drop it off a nearby cliff? Or must it move its body to do so?

I have a sense of how I might rule on this as a DM but am very curious if anyone has a rules or RAW oriented answer - and what others would do. Thanks much!

[MaxWilson]

There is no RAW answer but FWIW here is Crawford's opinion: https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/618276037122658304

"A creature grappled by a giant octopus can attack the octopus via the grappling tentacle."

I think most players and DMs would be comfortable with that approach, don't you?

[Tanarii]

Moving a grappled creature definitely requires using your movement. But there's no solid rule on exactly how that works.

Moving a Grappled Creature. When you move, you can drag or carry the grappled creature with you, but your speed is halved, unless the creature is two or more sizes smaller than you.

Common ways I've seen it run are:
- when you move, the creature moves with you, staying in the same relative positions.
- when you move, the creature moves into the square you just left, as if dragging it behind you.
- when you move, the creature can be moved to any 'legal' movement position, the same total distance (or squares if using a battlemat).

With the last one I've also seen that you can expend your movement to move the grappled creature without actually moving any distance yourself.

[Valmark]

Moving a grappled creature definitely requires using your movement. But there's no solid rule on exactly how that works.

Moving a Grappled Creature. When you move, you can drag or carry the grappled creature with you, but your speed is halved, unless the creature is two or more sizes smaller than you.

- when you move, the creature can be moved to any 'legal' movement position, the same total distance (or squares if using a battlemat).

With the last one I've also seen that you can expend your movement to move the grappled creature without actually moving any distance yourself.

I don't follow, how does it lead to you staying still while the grappled moves? Seems in clear contradiction with what is written.

[Tanarii]

I don't follow, how does it lead to you staying still while the grappled moves? Seems in clear contradiction with what is written.
It doesn't really. It's just something I've seen ruled. If you want to move a creature 10ft around you in a circle, you spend ten feet of your movement even though you don't move.

[Valmark]

It doesn't really. It's just something I've seen ruled. If you want to move a creature 10ft around you in a circle, you spend ten feet of your movement even though you don't move.

Oh, I see.

I'm imaging an octopus twirling in place with a poor fellow getting spinned like at a luna park now.

[Chugger]

Thanks all - I've always seen it that a grap/rest creature (by a gi octo) can attack it.

Gi Octo, unless it has longstrider cast on it, is very slow on land - well even with that it's slow. If it is grapping its movement is really slow. So I guess it's not going to be dropping many victims into pits or off cliffs, unless they're fighting on the brink of one.

I have mostly seen grappled movement have the grappler move x squares, and the grappled victim just moves with, staying in the same relationship to the grappler.

[MaxWilson]

Thanks all - I've always seen it that a grap/rest creature (by a gi octo) can attack it.

Gi Octo, unless it has longstrider cast on it, is very slow on land - well even with that it's slow. If it is grapping its movement is really slow. So I guess it's not going to be dropping many victims into pits or off cliffs, unless they're fighting on the brink of one.

I have mostly seen grappled movement have the grappler move x squares, and the grappled victim just moves with, staying in the same relationship to the grappler.

A Mobile, Longstridered Giant Octopus is normal speed though, 30' movement.

I have dragging drag the victim behind the grappler, per physics. But if you want to move someone in your tentacles I'd ad hoc it--someone light, like a child, whom you could pick up and carry, I guess I'd just let you do it if they weren't resisting. Otherwise I'd improvise a contest based loosely on the Shove rules.