Tactical Challenge #4

[da newt]

SPOILER - this installment is based on an AL Mod DDAL04-14, although it will be a modified version to match what my party and DM did. There will be SPOILERS and also some significant changes to the mod as written.

As before, how would you approach this fight and WHY? What can we learn from this example? Can we win?

Scenario: You are approaching a BOSS fight in Barovia. If you don't take out the BBEG she will become even more powerful and evil merging her soul with that of a God. You have worked your way through her lair, and need to stop her ritual, and destroy her. The party has no idea HOW to stop the ritual. The party also has no idea what the BBEG's capabilities, resistances, immunities, etc are. (so no meta gaming - the only way to discover a capability or immunity is to observe it, if you attack w/ something the BBEG is immune to the DM will state "it appears to have less effect than you expected.")

Environment:
Your party has opened a secret door, past the door is a 5' wide passage 30' long with stairs up to a 10x10 landing. On the landing you see a witch, a suit of Plate, and a door. The witch tells the Plate to guard the door (it animates) and she moves through the door and closes it behind her.

[Unoriginal]

I'm confused. Do you want to DM this encounter?

First thing to point out is that with the wording the BBEG chose, the party can safely ignore the plate armor as long as they can 1) get in initiative order b) all of them except the last PC in the initiative order prepare the "move through the door as soon as it's opened/as soon as X teammate when through" reaction c) the last one on initiative order open the door then go through it on their turn.

The animated plate guard the door, it won't do anything if all the PCs cross it before its turn.

[da newt]

Animated Plate Stats:
Armor Class 21 (natural armor)
Hit Points 112 (15d8 + 45)
Speed 30 ft.
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
17 (+3) 13 (+1) 16 (+3) 9 (-1) 10 (+0) 9 (-1)
Skills Perception +3
Damage Resistances cold, fire
Damage Immunities lightning, poison
Condition Immunities blinded, charmed, deafened,
exhaustion, frightened, paralyzed, petrified,
poisoned
Senses blindsight 60 ft. (blind beyond this radius),
Passive Perception 13
Languages Understands Common but can't speak
Challenge 6 (2,300 XP)
Antimagic Susceptibility. The armor is incapacitated
while in the area of an antimagic field. If targeted by
dispel magic, the armor must succeed on a
Constitution saving throw against the caster's spell
save DC or fall unconscious for 1 minute.
Actions
Multiattack. The armor makes two melee attacks or
uses Shocking Bolt twice.
Greatsword. Melee Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 5
ft., one target. Hit: 10 (2d6 + 3) slashing damage plus 3
(1d6) lightning damage.
Shocking Bolt. Ranged Spell Attack: +4 to hit (with
advantage on the attack roll if the target is wearing
armor made of metal), range 60 ft., one target. Hit: 10
(3d6) lightning damage.

The Room above:
20' N-S x 40' E-W room. Door in NE corner. Inside are (1) Thug, (3) Witches, (1) BBEG. There is a ritual under way. The BBEG is at W end, Thug is near door, Witches are evenly spread along S wall.

Thug stats:
Armor Class 11 (leather armor)
Hit Points 32 (5d8 + 10)
Speed 30 ft.
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
15 (+2) 11 (+0) 14 (+2) 10 (+0) 10 (+0) 11 (+0)
Pack Tactics. The thug has advantage on an attack roll
against a creature if at least one of the thug’s allies is
within 5 feet of the creature and the ally isn’t
incapacitated.

Witches Stats: (3)
Barovian Witch
Medium humanoid, chaotic evil
Armor Class 10
Hit Points 16 (3d8 + 3)
Speed 30 ft.
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
7 (2) 11 (+0) 13 (+1) 14 (+2) 11 (+0) 12 (+1)
Skills Arcana +4, Perception +2
Senses darkvision 60 ft., Passive Perception 12
Languages Common
Spellcasting. The witch is a 3rd-level spellcaster. Its
spellcasting ability is Intelligence (spell save DC 12, +4
to hit with spell attacks). The witch has the following
wizard spells prepared:
Cantrips (at will): mage hand, prestidigitation, ray of
frost
1st level (4 slots): ray of sickness, sleep, Tasha's hideous
laughter
2nd level (2 slots): alter self, invisibility

* The thugs and witches in the room are
affected as though they had been the targets of: bless
(+1d4 on attacks and saving throws), blur
(disadvantage to be hit by attacks that rely on sight),
and false life (+15 hit points).

BBEG Stats:
Medium humanoid (human), chaotic evil
Armor Class 16 (natural armor)
Hit Points 120 (16d8 + 48)
Speed 30 ft.
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
13 (+1) 10 (+0) 16 (+3) 20 (+5) 17 (+3) 18 (+4)
Saving Throws Wis +7, Cha +8
Damage Resistances bludgeoning, piercing, and
slashing from nonmagical weapons
Damage Immunities cold, fire, necrotic, poison
Condition Immunities charmed, exhaustion,
frightened, grappled, paralyzed, petrified, poisoned,
prone, restrained, unconscious
Skills Arcana +13, Religion +13
Senses darkvision 60 ft., passive Perception 13; BBEG
sees through all forms of darkness
Languages Abyssal, Common, Draconic, Infernal,
Sylvan; telepathy 100 ft.
Challenge 11 (7,200 XP)
Darkness Breeds Darkness. BBEG has advantage on
ability checks and attack rolls against characters with
the Touched by the Mists story award. Similarly, such
characters have disadvantage on any saving throw
made against BBEG.
Blessing of Mother Night. BBEG is shielded against
divination magic, as though she was protected by a
nondetection spell.
Legendary Resistance (3/day). If BBEG fails a saving
throw, she succeeds instead.
Vestige of the Evening Glory. If BBEG fails a saving
throw against the magic locket and has no more uses
of legendary resistance, the Evening Glory is pulled
from within her she loses: all damage immunities, all
condition immunities except charmed, blessing of the
Mother Night, and two legendary actions per turn. In
addition, her kiss no longer heals her.
Spellcasting. BBEG is a 13th-level spellcaster. Her
spellcasting ability is Intelligence (spell save DC 16, +8
to hit with spell attacks). BBEG has the following
wizard spells prepared:
Cantrips: acid splash, fire bolt, light, mage hand,
prestidigitation
1st level (4 slots): charm person, magic missile, shield,
witch bolt
2nd level (3 slots): crown of madness, hypnotic pattern,
misty step
3rd level (3 slots): counterspell, dispel magic, fireball,
lightning bolt
4th level (3 slots): blight, Evard’s black tentacles,
polymorph
5th level (2 slots): cloudkill
6th level (1 slot): disintegrate
7th level (1 slot): finger of death
Actions
Multiattack. BBEG makes three attacks with her Kiss.
Kiss. Melee Spell Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one
target. Hit: 14 (3d6 + 4) psychic damage and the target
must succeed in a DC 16 Wisdom saving throw or be
charmed. The charmed target regards BBEG as his or
her true love to be heeded and protected, through
violence against others if need be. Although the target
isn't under BBEG's control, it takes BBEG's requests
or actions in the most favorable way it can. Each time
BBEG or BBEG's companions do anything harmful to
the target, it can repeat the saving throw, ending the
effect on itself on a success. Otherwise, the effect lasts
24 hours or until BBEG is destroyed, is on a different
plane of existence than the target, or takes a bonus
action to end the effect. BBEG heals half of the
psychic damage done.
Legendary Actions
BBEG can take 3 legendary actions, choosing from the
options below. Only one legendary action option can
be used at a time, and only at the end of another
creature's turn. BBEG regains spent legendary actions
at the start of her turn. BBEG can’t use the same
legendary action twice in a row.
 Anything for Love. Each victim of BBEG’s kiss
attacks a creature within reach.
 Blow a Kiss. BBEG moves her speed without
provoking opportunity attacks and then uses kiss
against a target within 30 feet.
 Loving Concentration. BBEG transfers the ability to
maintain concentration of a spell she has cast to an
ally.
 Love's Flickering Flame. BBEG lights a candle which
casts a cantrip at a target of her choice.
 Ritual Casting. BBEG maintains the transformation
ritual.
 Love Conquers All (costs 2 actions). BBEG ends a
condition that she began her action with.
Lair Actions
On initiative count 20 (losing initiative ties), BBEG
takes a lair action to cause one of the following effects;
BBEG can't use the same effect two rounds in a row:
 Candle Caster. One of the candles in the room burns
out, triggering a spell as if it had been cast by BBEG.
This spell uses one of her slots but emanates from
any point in the room she wishes.
 Candle Flare. All candles in the room flare brightly.
BBEG's enemies who can see must make a DC 16
Constitution saving throw or be blinded until the end
of their action.
 Love Never Dies. One of BBEG's allies returns to life
with half hit points.
 Vision of Beauty. Moonlight fills the room. All
creatures that were charmed by BBEG but no
longer are, stare longingly at her until the end of
their next turn; granting enemies advantage on
attacks rolls. These victims may still act normally.

[MaxWilson]

SPOILER - this installment is based on an AL Mod DDAL04-14, although it will be a modified version to match what my party and DM did. There will be SPOILERS and also some significant changes to the mod as written.

As before, how would you approach this fight and WHY? What can we learn from this example? Can we win?

Scenario: You are approaching a BOSS fight in Barovia. If you don't take out the BBEG she will become even more powerful and evil merging her soul with that of a God. You have worked your way through her lair, and need to stop her ritual, and destroy her. The party has no idea HOW to stop the ritual. The party also has no idea what the BBEG's capabilities, resistances, immunities, etc are. (so no meta gaming - the only way to discover a capability or immunity is to observe it, if you attack w/ something the BBEG is immune to the DM will state "it appears to have less effect than you expected.")

Environment:
Your party has opened a secret door, past the door is a 5' wide passage 30' long with stairs up to a 10x10 landing. On the landing you see a witch, a suit of Plate, and a door. The witch tells the Plate to guard the door (it animates) and she moves through the door and closes it behind her.

Well, in that case I'm going for things that are always reliable or at least readily observed. Exploit movement speed, magical weapon or force attacks, Confusion or Slow or Tasha's instead of Hypnotic Pattern or Fear (but she'll probably have legendary resistance anyway). Good place for a Shepherd Druid and a Sharpshooter Fighter, and hopefully somebody with Chill Touch to shut down regen/heal. Cast Dispel Magic on her a couple times from other PCs just in case. Be ready to take out minions with AoEs. Cast Death Ward beforehand if possible on everybody in the party. Don't bring squishies in closer than necessary, and/or have them Hide. Send in a conjured Fire Elemental on point if possible, that's fairly reliable against undead.

But I'm really disappointed in myself for not gathering information beforehand (Augury, Divination, Scrying, taking to sages, listening to local legends, etc.) to have at least some idea what she's like. If we all die horribly it's our own dumb fault for going in blind. (At least that's what my PC will be thinking. Maybe in reality it's the player's fault for deliberately cranking up difficulty by choosing to be manipulated into rushing, because sometimes the smart way is also a boring way.)

Can't really say anything specific about tactics though without knowing more details like who is in the party, what level we are, etc.

[da newt]

Bad Guy Heuristics:
The Animated Plate will block the door, block the top of the stairs, and attack the closest Party member.
The Thug will attack the first party member through the door and position himself between the threat and the BBEG.
The Witches will dodge if they are concentrating on one of the BBEG's spells. Otherwise they will cast Tasha's Hideous Laughter.
The BBEG will ensure she keeps the ritual going. She will cast Evard's and then Cloud Kill and pass Conc to Witches. She will KISS the nearest party member whenever able.

[da newt]

Your Party: All Lvl 9

Bugbear, Bear Totem Barbarian 4 / BM Fighter 5, PAM, shield, half plate, Cloak of Protection, +1 Staff, Dueling FS, 18 ST, 14 DX, 16 CO, 8 IN, 12 WI, 8 CH, AC 19, 86 hp, Precision Att, Menacing Att, Riposte.

V Human OotA Paladin, Shield Master, plate, shield, +1 Long Sword, Defensive FS, 18 St, 10 DX, 14 CO, 8 IN, 12 WI, 16 CH, AC 21, hp 72

Goblin Thief, SS, +1 Studded Leather, +1 Short Bow, 12 ST, 18 DX, 16 CO, 8 IN, 12 WI, 8 CH, AC 17, hp 71

V Human Life Cleric, War Caster, Res Con, Chain Mail, +1 Shield, Mace, 14 ST, 12 DX, 16 CO, 8 IN, 16 WI, 10 CH, AC 18, hp 71

Half Elf Celestial Warlock, Pact of Tome, War Caster, +1 Studded Leather, Staff, 10 ST, 12 DX, 16 CO, 8 IN, 12 WI, 18 CH, AC 14, hp 71

Stout Halfling Moon Druid, War Caster, shield, scale mail, staff, 10 ST, 12 DX, 16 CO, 8 IN, 18 WI, CH 10, AC 17, 71 hp

[da newt]

Starting position:

Your Party is at the bottom of the stairs (30' from the landing at the top and the Animated Armor) in this marching order:
Paladin
Barbarian
Thief
Druid
Cleric
Warlock

Initiative order:
Barbarian
Animated Armor
Cleric
Thug
Druid
Witches (3)
Paladin
BBEG
Thief
Warlock

Of note, your Barbarian, Thief and Paladin all have been "touched by the mist" and therefore the BBEG has advantage on ability checks and attack rolls against these PCs. Similarly, such characters have disadvantage on any saving throw made against BBEG.

The bad guys in the upper room will ready actions if no party members have moved the Animated Armor out of the way, opened the door, and stepped into the room.

Choose your spells and actions. What will you do and WHY?

(My party was TPK-ed. We did not know how to stop the ritual, we really struggled to get up the stairs and past the animated armor, and then the BBEG kissed us into spectators. We got SPANKED.)

[da newt]

Unorigional: Your party is at the bottom of the stairs, 30' from the animated armor, he is standing in front of the door at the top of the landing.

Max: Let me know if you need more info.

[MaxWilson]

Unorigional: Your party is at the bottom of the stairs, 30' from the animated armor, he is standing in front of the door at the top of the landing.

Max: Let me know if you need more info.

Spells known/prepared is essential knowledge. I don't want to recommend something that you just can't do, e.g. tell you to spam Vrocks and conjured animals up the stairs for the first five rounds or so, if it turns out that the Celestialock doesn't know Summon Greater Demon and the Moon Druid doesn't know Conjure Animal. (Vrock is first up the stairs, Stuns, and then next round releases spores. Animals charge up there after the Stun to take advantage on the opening. PCs at the bottom can all just focus on killing the Animated Armor easily.)

BTW, wow, Goblin Thief? What a waste of a racial feature! Should have been a Goblin Bard.

[Unoriginal]

All the Animated Armor does is guard the door. Not past the door.

First turn:

Barbarian: advance however many feet needed to be close enough to the door while leaving the space for team, Ready "advance through the door as soon as it's opened"

Animated armor: does nothing

Cleric: advance however many feet needed to be close enough to the door while leaving the space for team, Ready "advance through the door as soon as the Barbarian went in"
Druid: advance however many feet needed to be close enough to the door while leaving the space for team, Ready "advance through the door as soon as the Barbarian goes in"
Paladin: advance however many feet needed to be close enough to the door while leaving the space for team, Ready "advance through the door as soon as the Cleric goes in"
Thief: advance however many feet needed to be close enough to the door while leaving the space for team, Ready "advance through the door as soon as the Paladin went in"
Warlock: advance to the door, open it, let their team go through, gets in the room via Dash if needed, otherwise use spell on enemies

Second turn:

Barbarian: close door with free object interraction, bonus action Rage, attack target.

Animated armor: *does nothing as the door is still guarded*


Does anyone see a hole in this reasoning?

[Valmark]

All the Animated Armor does is guard the door. Not past the door.

First turn:

Barbarian: advance however many feet needed to be close enough to the door while leaving the space for team, Ready "advance through the door as soon as it's opened"

Animated armor: does nothing

Cleric: advance however many feet needed to be close enough to the door while leaving the space for team, Ready "advance through the door as soon as the Barbarian went in"
Druid: advance however many feet needed to be close enough to the door while leaving the space for team, Ready "advance through the door as soon as the Barbarian goes in"
Paladin: advance however many feet needed to be close enough to the door while leaving the space for team, Ready "advance through the door as soon as the Cleric goes in"
Thief: advance however many feet needed to be close enough to the door while leaving the space for team, Ready "advance through the door as soon as the Paladin went in"
Warlock: advance to the door, open it, let their team go through, gets in the room via Dash if needed, otherwise use spell on enemies

Second turn:

Barbarian: close door with free object interraction, bonus action Rage, attack target.

Animated armor: *does nothing as the door is still guarded*


Does anyone see a hole in this reasoning?

It says that it guards the stairs too and attacks closest party member. Why not just Dispel Magic? It has a terribly low save, no more then two are needed and then there is a minute to destroy it/go kill the BBEG.

da newt, is there a time limit? Throwing inside the above room a Silence spell then letting the druid flood it with Conjure Animals seems like the easiest way to crush the evil people, before factoring in the other four party members. I assume the BBEG can't leave the room?

[da newt]

Unorigional - The Animated Armor will attack anyone in melee range, and stand in front of the door where no PC's can pass through his space to access the door. It has a INT of 9 and understands "guard the door" better than all the 8 INT PC's would due to it's superior Int. It will act just as tactically as they would.

Val: The only time limit is 10 rounds to complete the ritual, but the party has no knowledge of this time limit. The BBEG must maintain the ritual every round, but there is nothing RAW that requires them to stay in the room (but RAI - I'd assume they would).

[IsaacsAlterEgo]

Bard tries to convince the Armor that it will be following the letter of it's command, if not the intent, by opening the door for us so that we can pass by safely without causing any harm to the door. Probably offers the Armor friendship and freedom, along with better treatment than the BBEG. With expertise, surely not an impossible roll.

After that, when we make it to the witch, the bard makes the argument to her assuming that she is not outright suicidal/omnicidal that when the BBEG becomes a literal god that was even more evil than before it would be just as likely to hurt her and anything she cares about as much as anything else. Hopefully she sees, quite logically, that the BBEG's plan coming to fruition is as bad for her as anyone else and dishes on their weaknesses. We then use that info to fight the BBEG and disrupt the ritual.

Relies on two fairly high persuasion checks most likely, but with expertise, guidance, inspiration, maybe someone helping to give advantage, it's definitely not impossible.

[MaxWilson]

Unorigional - The Animated Armor will attack anyone in melee range, and stand in front of the door where no PC's can pass through his space to access the door. It has a INT of 9 and understands "guard the door" better than all the 8 INT PC's would due to it's superior Int. It will act just as tactically as they would.

Val: The only time limit is 10 rounds to complete the ritual, but the party has no knowledge of this time limit. The BBEG must maintain the ritual every round, but there is nothing RAW that requires them to stay in the room (but RAI - I'd assume they would).

Any word on the spells? Because if Vrocks + conjured wolves (or whatever) are indeed an option, they're going to kill that BBEG long before 10 rounds is up.

BTW, easiest way to deal with the armor is to probably just to have the barbarian shove it off the end of the stairs. Repeat if necessary every time it climbs up. Use Readied Action: Shove for extra hilarity.

[Valmark]

Alright, so I assume the party knows to try and be fast. It says that the boss could fail a save against a 'magic locket'& what's that about?

Meanwhile first round seems obvious enough- barbarian comes up and shoves the armor away from the door, then opens it. Gets attack by the armor, then cleric comes around and Readies to Silence the room. The thug knocks on the barbarian, then the druid fills the room with Conjure Animals and orders them to kill the BBEG, then cleric Silences. Warlock Dispels the Armor. I have no idea what the paladin will do yet.

The witches can't do **** and the BBEG by the time she can do something will be forced to engage the animals (and can't order them, assuming animals survive an attack from it).

This is just a rough draft while I wait for the reply, but I think that's a pretty sweet position to be in.

[Unoriginal]

Alright, if you say it's what the armor does it's what the armor does.

Question: how do you rule people getting shoved while into the stairs?

[Keravath]

Didn't you post a thread complaining about this 6 months ago or more? :) I seem to recall reading exactly this situation described.

A couple of comments ...
1) The module STARTS with "In previous adventures they have identified their enemy as the witch Esmae Amarantha, learned of her plan, and recovered a magical locket that can be used as a weapon against her."

If the characters don't know about the BBEG's plan, don't have or know about the locket and what it can do, or know the identity of the witch then the DM really didn't set the scene properly.

This is covered in part 1 where one of the things the party should learn is:

"The characters are in possession of a magical locket that was used by Esmae to draw the vestige of the Evening Glory from its prison in the Amber Temple. They should be able to use it to do the
same to Esmae."

NPCs needed in trying to locate Esmae include two options with knowledge of the locket and how to use it.

"How Do I Use This Locket?
The characters have in their possession a magical locket recovered in DDAL04-10 The Artifact and attuned to Esmae in DDAL04-13 The Horseman such that they can use it to draw the vestige of the Evening Glory out of Esmae. Ixusaxa and Jeny both believe that it must be presented forcefully in some manner to do so; likely in a way similar to how it was used to pull for the possessing ghosts in the Amber Temple. They suggest being obvious and loud but are stumped on details as to how to do it and exactly what will happen. Note: The characters do not know this but to use the locket, the character must use an action to present it forcefully to Esmae and loudly demand the Evening Glory depart her body. Esmae then must attempt a DC 15 Charisma saving throw to prevent the vestige from being pulled out. The DC increases by 5 for attempt made to entrap the vestige."


Here is how Esmae is supposed to be played.

In order to ritual going she must use one action every round for ten rounds while possessed by the Evening Glory, either her own or a legendary action. If she cannot do so, the ritual is disrupted. In addition, she saves her legendary resistance ability for effects that prevent her from casting the ritual, banish her, or exorcise the Evening Glory.

Did you folks have the locket and at least a minimal idea of what it does and how to use it? Without that, the DM pretty much decided you weren't supposed to succeed at this encounter or at least left the only option to beat her down with all of her advantages and resistances. The DM also upped the difficulty a bit by adding a couple of witches.

2) The thug and witches are cannon fodder to slow the party down and stop them from focusing on Esmae. The armor is intended to delay the party.

However, the room at the top of the spiral stair is 10x20. Did the DM eliminate that forcing single file on a circular staircase with just the armor at the top?

If the room is the 10x20 from the module, the characters need to surround the armor. Rage/reckless ... shield bash from the paladin to knock it prone - possibly grapple to keep it there. Alternatively, leave it up for the ranged rogue but he can always step in and attack with his short sword then disengage. The cleric could throw up an upcast spirit guardians and later cast spiritual weapon. It is important to eliminate the armor before opening the door. The paladin should smite to take it down more quickly.

If the landing is 5'x5' with the stair ending there allowing only 1 character to attack in melee at a time then the DM decided to force you to lose since the delay factor goes way up. Still probably best with the rage/reckless barbarian in front backed up by the cleric with spirit guardians running. If the rogue can get a shot from third in line - do it since sharpshooter prevents issues with cover and he will still get sneak attack. However, it will probably take 3-4 rounds to take down, possibly longer with bad luck, if the DM makes it impossible to use all the characters to take out the armor.

Note: The module gives the armor instructions as "she directs to the armor to the top of the stairs to defend them against all comers" ... so running past isn't an option it might be if she actually told it to defend the door.

3) Once the way is clear ... party prepares to enter the room. The druid upcasts conjure animals from outside the door - the BBEG can't counterspell what they can't see. A 5tg level slot will conjure 16 wolves or 4 dire wolves/bears. These are either sufficient to harry the BBEG or eliminate the thug/witches so the players can focus on the BBEG.

The BBEG is supposed to use spells from range ... with bad luck, disintegrate will instantly kill one character. Finger of death could take out another. Fireball might be less of an issue since it affects everyone in the room but the BBEG might not care since they are immune to fire. The BBEG is not immune to prone so shield bash could help and magical weapons do full damage.

As for the next room, the witches don't have much in the way of spells, hit points or attacks ... an upcast spirit guardians actually has a decent chance of killing them.

The characters may deduce that since the thug and witches run to engage the characters that Esmae must be doing something towards the ritual and they will see her use her action or a legendary action to continue the ritual. So clearly, if they want to disrupt the ritual they have to prevent Esmae from using an action to continue the ritual. This could be either the DM forgetting to use the action :) or taking Esmae down to zero hit points or using the locket to recover the remnant of the dark god and make Esmae much easier to fight.

The biggest threat is probably the effect of the kiss. However, the kiss is a melee spell attack which means that it can be ended by dispel magic or potentially even counterspelled if someone in the party can cast it ... though that is probably too expensive to consider. This is one of those situations where a devotion paladin might be preferable to an ancients one since their 7th level aura blocks charm effects. :)

On the other hand, once it becomes obvious that the BBEG is using charm - which happens as soon as someone fails, this would be an ideal time for the cleric to cast calm emotions making the entire party immune to charm and the frightened condition. More useful is that your friends can choose to fail the save automatically .. which of course they would do since their friend the cleric is casting it even if they are also in love with the BBEG ... the spell isn't being cast on the BBEG so how can it harm them?

Once the party is immune to charm then although the BBEG still gets advantage to attack the ones affected by the mists ... it should go much quicker, especially if they can burn off the legendary saving throws. Keep in mind that the BBEG in this case has no choice in using the legendary saves. If they fail a save then they have to use one. "Legendary Resistance (3/day). If BBEG fails a saving throw, she succeeds instead." For this NPC, use of legendary saves is not optional. This means that they could potentially be burned off using sacred flame or another cantrip. On the other hand, the DM might have changed that to make the NPC more challenging.

Anyway, I think the key spell in this case is probably Calm Emotions from the cleric to suppress and prevent the charm effect during the fight.

[Keravath]

Just a couple of comments.

1) Dispel magic doesn't work against a construct unless the DM decides it does.

"Choose one creature, object, or magical effect within range. Any spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends."

RAW, dispel magic in 5e just dispels spells or similar magical effects. Dispel magic doesn't work to stop constructs (including warforged), golems, undead, or the functioning of magic items as it did in previous editions.

2) RAW, you can't ready shove.

"Using the Attack action, you can make a special melee attack to shove a creature, either to knock it prone or push it away from you."

Ready is distinct from the Attack action even if you use ready to prepare an attack. So, at least RAW, you can't shove with a Ready action. It's similar to why you can't shove or grapple with an opportunity attack.

3) I really liked the idea of the silence spell. However, it doesn't shut down the kiss of the BBEG which is the biggest threat to the party in this case. At least three of the party are almost guaranteed to be charmed with advantage on the attack and disadvantage on the DC 16 saving throw. Although the paladin might be able to make it, the barbarian is likely to fail. Using the summoned animals to prevent the BBEG from moving might work though or at least slow them down. The BBEG does have counterspell and that does not require a verbal component but she only has one reaction/turn.

[MaxWilson]

Just a couple of comments.

1) Dispel magic doesn't work against a construct unless the DM decides it does.

"Choose one creature, object, or magical effect within range. Any spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends."

RAW, dispel magic in 5e just dispels spells or similar magical effects. Dispel magic doesn't work to stop constructs (including warforged), golems, undead, or the functioning of magic items as it did in previous editions.

In this case the armor has Antimagic Susceptibility which calls out Dispel Magic specifically as a vulnerability.

[Valmark]

Just a couple of comments.

1) Dispel magic doesn't work against a construct unless the DM decides it does.

"Choose one creature, object, or magical effect within range. Any spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends."

RAW, dispel magic in 5e just dispels spells or similar magical effects. Dispel magic doesn't work to stop constructs (including warforged), golems, undead, or the functioning of magic items as it did in previous editions.

2) RAW, you can't ready shove.

"Using the Attack action, you can make a special melee attack to shove a creature, either to knock it prone or push it away from you."

Ready is distinct from the Attack action even if you use ready to prepare an attack. So, at least RAW, you can't shove with a Ready action. It's similar to why you can't shove or grapple with an opportunity attack.

3) I really liked the idea of the silence spell. However, it doesn't shut down the kiss of the BBEG which is the biggest threat to the party in this case. At least three of the party are almost guaranteed to be charmed with advantage on the attack and disadvantage on the DC 16 saving throw. Although the paladin might be able to make it, the barbarian is likely to fail. Using the summoned animals to prevent the BBEG from moving might work though or at least slow them down. The BBEG does have counterspell and that does not require a verbal component but she only has one reaction/turn.

The armor says it's susceptible to Dispel Magic, not the spell.

Who has readied Shove? I think I was the only one to talk about Readying something and that was Silence.

To be fair, it's arguable wether Silence stops the Kiss' effects or not- with Silence the BBEG can't order the kissed characters around, but just in case I preferred engaging the BBEG with the animals at least initially.

[MaxWilson]

The armor says it's susceptible to Dispel Magic, not the spell.

Who has readied Shove? I think I was the only one to talk about Readying something and that was Silence.

Me. I said the Barbarian could even Ready a Shove (Attack action) to shove the armor off the stairs every time it climbs back up.

I have never seen a DM rule that grapples cannot be readied--that ruling would make Mobile Earth Elementals extremely strong. Nor does the Ready action forbid you from Readying an Attack (Shove) in the first place, so forbidding it would actually be incorrect by RAW as well.

[Valmark]

Me. I said the Barbarian could even Ready a Shove (Attack action) to shove the armor off the stairs every time it climbs back up.

I have never seen a DM rule that grapples cannot be readied--that ruling would make Mobile Earth Elementals extremely strong. Nor does the Ready action forbid you from Readying an Attack (Shove) in the first place, so forbidding it would actually be incorrect by RAW as well.

Oh right, I had overlooked that. I agree with Wilson on this too, I don't see anything stopping a player from Readying the Attack action to Shove somebody (I never saw that happen though so I can't speak from experience).

[da newt]

The party thief is in possession of the locket. They know it is important, but nothing else. (as per Keravath's post, we've got it but don't know how to use it - yes I have scars from this encounter)

The paladin is the first in line in a 5' wide passage/stairs 30' from the landing and animated armor (landing/armor are at the top, party at the bottom). The barbarian/BM is behind the paladin so it takes 10' of movement to move through his space, then 20', ending up 10' short of the Armor. To reach the armor on the first round would require action dash, then action surge to attack/shove, assuming BA used to rage, leaving 2 attempts, if shove succeeds, then they can open the door and move into the room. Armor has 17 ST, no Ath prof so raging Barb w/ Ath has hi prob to succeed, but will trigger an OpAtt as he steps to/through door. Then on Armor's turn step back into blocking position and attack.

The first obstacle of this encounter is the 5' wide passage/stairs just to get to the landing and armor so that you can attempt to move it out of the way to access the door. The landing is 10x10. The passage/stairs are 5' wide, 30' long.

Your party does not know that the Armor has any vulnerabilities or immunities. You can only learn by trying and observing.

DM ruling - yes you can ready an attack action (1) and use that action to attempt a shove when the trigger condition is met. You can only shove a creature into an unoccupied space and 5' or prone.

There is no party bard. Any attempt to persuade the Armor that it should betray it's allies will have a VERY high DC.

The BBEG legendary action to blow a kiss has a 30' range. The KISS is a spell attack but it does not list if it includes verbal components. We will assume somatic only. Reminder 3 of the party are at DISADV to all saves. BBEG will cast Evard's and Cloud Kill on first two rounds (passing conc to witches) unless someone forces something different.

As written a party of 6 lvl 9 PCs = a Very Strong party and it is recommended that the DM Add another Barovian witch and a thug. Give Esmae another 30 hit points and increase her AC by 1. It takes Esmae 8 rounds to complete the ritual. Our DM nerfed this recommendation some.

[MaxWilson]

Your party does not know that the Armor has any vulnerabilities or immunities. You can only learn by trying and observing.

To be fair, Dispel Magic a pretty standard vulnerability for animated objects in 5E. It's not just this particular suit of armor.


As written a party of 6 lvl 9 PCs = a Very Strong party and it is recommended that the DM Add another Barovian witch and a thug. Give Esmae another 30 hit points and increase her AC by 1. It takes Esmae 8 rounds to complete the ritual. Our DM nerfed this recommendation some.

I don't think it makes a difference. Another witch and a thug will still die swiftly to all of the conjured animals + vrocks/etc. That is, assuming I can pick the spell loadout? I've asked multiple times but not seen an answer so I guess... I'll just run the fight assuming that I get to choose all of the spells on all of the casters, and all of the Celestialock's invocations??? Maybe Kiss will work better than I expect it to on the Vrock(s) and wolves (while PCs bombard with AoEs and Eldritch Blast from the doorway and then duck back behind cover).

Man, the idea of a Vrock who thinks its True Love is a human is... quite funny. I wonder how a Vrock would naturally treat its beloved.

[Gignere]

This is a hard setup for the party in question. There is no flipping way to guess that the animated armor is susceptible to dispel magic unless some kind of hint was dropped by the DM or the players cheated.

The barbarian PAM build so ditching his staff and grappling probably never even cross his mind. Certainly not until one round of misses passes by trying to futilely hit the armor.

So maybe after the first round of attacking the armor if the team realizes it has high AC they might change to having the barbarian grapple it and shove it prone so it has zero movement.

The rest of the party charges up. Paladin should engage Thug. Druid should cast summon animals (giant owls), cleric should cast a spirit guardian upcasted, warlock no clue what spells he has access to should cast something useful.

If the BBEG kiss is successful I think maybe a dispel magic or calm emotions should be dropped.

Giant owls should fly in and start beating on the BBEG, and witches. The fight should go well for the group once the Thug and witches are taken care of. The only thing is that the barbarian will need to outlast the animated armor with his rage and hps.

[da newt]

Sorry Max - this was hidden in the mix under Initiative Order.

"Choose your spells and actions. What will you do and WHY?"

[MaxWilson]

This is a hard setup for the party in question. There is no flipping way to guess that the animated armor is susceptible to dispel magic unless some kind of hint was dropped by the DM or the players cheated.


It's standard for animated objects. Totally plausible for PCs to know. Would be more surprising if it turned out NOT to be vulnerable. In any case it's simple enough to kill before entering the room--how you kill it basically doesn't matter. It can't stand up to six 9th level PCs and their summons.

[Dork_Forge]

It's standard for animated objects. Totally plausible for PCs to know. Would be more surprising if it turned out NOT to be vulnerable. In any case it's simple enough to kill before entering the room--how you kill it basically doesn't matter. It can't stand up to six 9th level PCs and their summons.

Plausible, but shouldn't be assumed, after all the PCs in question may have never come across animated objects before or just never learned this weakness.

[MaxWilson]

Plausible, but shouldn't be assumed, after all the PCs in question may have never come across animated objects before or just never learned this weakness.

My point is that it's definitely not in the "no possible way the PCs could know without cheating" category. It's not really any more esoteric than knowing that Strahd presumably has a Legendary Action to let him move without taking opportunity attacks. (I'm AFB but I think he's just like a normal vampire, plus spells and lair actions but with regular legendaries.) This thing is a bigger, tougher animated armor, that's all. For all we know they cover this in standard Arcana 302: Investiture and Intent.

(On the other hand, there is no wizard so maybe no one in the party has ever studied Arcana.)

[vexedart]

Sorcerer subtle spell telekinesis 30ft from the witch, target the witch, it’s a skill check she has a high chance of failing And legendary resistance will not work on skill checks. Yoink her spell focus/spell component pouch a way to gimp her, since she has to follow the rules of wizard spell casting and requires one or the other. Or she’s SoL and can no longer perform her function as a wizard.

If that doesn’t work, give her the Skyrim treatment. Throw a bucket on her head disabling her action to Use an item action to remove it, to use spells that require sight. Rest of the party should be able to brute their way through after that I hope.

[Valmark]

The party thief is in possession of the locket. They know it is important, but nothing else. (as per Keravath's post, we've got it but don't know how to use it - yes I have scars from this encounter)

The paladin is the first in line in a 5' wide passage/stairs 30' from the landing and animated armor (landing/armor are at the top, party at the bottom). The barbarian/BM is behind the paladin so it takes 10' of movement to move through his space, then 20', ending up 10' short of the Armor. To reach the armor on the first round would require action dash, then action surge to attack/shove, assuming BA used to rage, leaving 2 attempts, if shove succeeds, then they can open the door and move into the room. Armor has 17 ST, no Ath prof so raging Barb w/ Ath has hi prob to succeed, but will trigger an OpAtt as he steps to/through door. Then on Armor's turn step back into blocking position and attack.

Your party does not know that the Armor has any vulnerabilities or immunities. You can only learn by trying and observing.

The BBEG legendary action to blow a kiss has a 30' range. The KISS is a spell attack but it does not list if it includes verbal components. We will assume somatic only. Reminder 3 of the party are at DISADV to all saves. BBEG will cast Evard's and Cloud Kill on first two rounds (passing conc to witches) unless someone forces something different.


According to Keravath's post they were suggested how- but alright.

How does the barbarian provoke opportunity attacks? Dash, AS shove next to the door, walk up to it then free action to open it. There is no room for the armor to step in front of the door and the barbarian never leaves its threat range.

Uh, weird that they don't, all animated items have the same vulnerability. Guess I'll avoid Dispel Magic.

The point with the Kiss under Silence is that the boss can't control the PCs (or anybody else)- she can order them around. And she can't do that because no orders can be heard in there.


Your Party: All Lvl 9

Bugbear, Bear Totem Barbarian 4 / BM Fighter 5, PAM, shield, half plate, Cloak of Protection, +1 Staff, Dueling FS, 18 ST, 14 DX, 16 CO, 8 IN, 12 WI, 8 CH, AC 19, 86 hp, Precision Att, Menacing Att, Riposte.

V Human OotA Paladin, Shield Master, plate, shield, +1 Long Sword, Defensive FS, 18 St, 10 DX, 14 CO, 8 IN, 12 WI, 16 CH, AC 21, hp 72

Goblin Thief, SS, +1 Studded Leather, +1 Short Bow, 12 ST, 18 DX, 16 CO, 8 IN, 12 WI, 8 CH, AC 17, hp 71

V Human Life Cleric, War Caster, Res Con, Chain Mail, +1 Shield, Mace, 14 ST, 12 DX, 16 CO, 8 IN, 16 WI, 10 CH, AC 18, hp 71

Half Elf Celestial Warlock, Pact of Tome, War Caster, +1 Studded Leather, Staff, 10 ST, 12 DX, 16 CO, 8 IN, 12 WI, 18 CH, AC 14, hp 71

Stout Halfling Moon Druid, War Caster, shield, scale mail, staff, 10 ST, 12 DX, 16 CO, 8 IN, 18 WI, CH 10, AC 17, 71 hp


Casting in Armour
“Because of the mental focus and precise gestures required for spellcasting, you must be proficient with the armour you are wearing to cast a spell. You are otherwise too distracted and physically hampered by your armour for spellcasting.“

Sorcerer twin spell telekinesis Beyond 30ft from the witch, target the armor and the witch, it’s a skill check either have a high chance of failing And legendary resistance will not work on skill checks. Don the witch in armor since she is not proficient in plate armor to disable her spellcasting and the armors mobility. Proceed to club everyone else to death in the room to death with the rest of the gang.

That or 4 arcana clerics casting spirit guardians, taking the dodge action, and spamming counter spell would probably work as well. Does this have to be a specific party build I only really read the main post?

We do have a party composition.

[vexedart]

After rereading this it’s a bit rough with your party and hard to know what spells were prepared, you could always cheese them by scouting via an invisible familiar, (hopefully the lock has that at least In their ritual tome) then smoking the room out and killing them via smoke inhalation, as none are immune to needing to breathe from what I’ve read, besides the animated plate. The rest of the room description doesn’t give any details, windows, other escapes besides the one door in the NE that I’m guessing is the same stairwell you have to go through to reach them. This at least forces them to confront you or suffocate, and then use the stairwell which is likely difficult terrain making reinforcing it hell if/when they decide to attack you. Putting you at a bigger advantage if you can flip the set up in your favor. If she ends up teleporting through the door via misty step, your Druid can wall of stone her reinforcements off by bringing a pebble as a spell component, and the rest beat the witch down When she’s isolated. I recommend the barbarian brings a net with a blanket stitched around it, to blind her while they’re grappled, and restrain her, High level casters with half the immunities/resistances the game offers can be tricky, but this is a possible set up without metagaming, just need to be better prepared and scout ahead, even if the familiar gets ganked. Also, fireball should destroy all her candles quite easily for a back up plan, including any other unequipped object under 33 health in the room. You can also use the party blankets to funnel the smoke in, or pyrotechnics if you can prepare it. Start a fire and feed it whatever you want. Conjure fey in case the warlock missed the familiar bit. Pixies are good scouts and can polymorph the party into whatever helps best.

“A creature can hold its breath for a number of minutes equal to 1 + its Constitution modifier (minimum of 30 seconds). When a creature runs out of breath or is choking, it can survive for a number of rounds equal to its Constitution modifier (minimum of 1 round).“

Hope this helps. When fighting strong casters, taking away breath, sight, or restraining them, helps limit what spells they can cast. Remember, they forfeit their breath after casting a verbal spell, and begin choking.

[Nhorianscum]

I'm pretty sure the druid+cleric can just drop wall of stone+silence on the BBEG to just lock it in a box and from there the fight is pretty elementary.

You just pick off the mooks while the cleric chucks a Guardian of faith or two on the BBEG and then ready-action-spam her to dead by dropping the wall.

5th level dispel magic should straight one shot the armor but that's sorta gamey. Good thing barbs can just shove the room.

Witches and thugs are sorta sad and non-threatening here without the BBEG. A blast spell or two can just wipe the room.

Even with resistance and legendary actions ready action spam at the end of her turn+a full turn order of just wailing on her should drop her without any sort of suspense.

[Dork_Forge]

After rereading this it’s a bit rough with your party and hard to know what spells were prepared, you could always cheese them by scouting via an invisible familiar, (hopefully the lock has that at least In their ritual tome) then smoking the room out and killing them via smoke inhalation, as none are immune to needing to breathe from what I’ve read, besides the animated plate. The rest of the room description doesn’t give any details, windows, other escapes besides the one door in the NE that I’m guessing is the same stairwell you have to go through to reach them. This at least forces them to confront you or suffocate, and then use the stairwell which is likely difficult terrain making reinforcing it hell if/when they decide to attack you. Putting you at a bigger advantage if you can flip the set up in your favor. If she ends up teleporting through the door via misty step, your Druid can wall of stone her reinforcements off by bringing a pebble as a spell component, and the rest beat the witch down When she’s isolated. I recommend the barbarian brings a net with a blanket stitched around it, to blind her while they’re grappled, and restrain her, High level casters with half the immunities/resistances the game offers can be tricky, but this is a possible set up without metagaming, just need to be better prepared and scout ahead, even if the familiar gets ganked. Also, fireball should destroy all her candles quite easily for a back up plan, including any other unequipped object under 33 health in the room. You can also use the party blankets to funnel the smoke in, or pyrotechnics if you can prepare it. Start a fire and feed it whatever you want. Conjure fey in case the warlock missed the familiar bit. Pixies are good scouts and can polymorph the party into whatever helps best.

“A creature can hold its breath for a number of minutes equal to 1 + its Constitution modifier (minimum of 30 seconds). When a creature runs out of breath or is choking, it can survive for a number of rounds equal to its Constitution modifier (minimum of 1 round).“

Hope this helps. When fighting strong casters, taking away breath, sight, or restraining them, helps limit what spells they can cast. Remember, they forfeit their breath after casting a verbal spell, and begin choking.

The party is unaware, but unless losing verbal stops the ritual (there's no indication of that) then this isn't going to work fast enough within the 10 rounds before the BBEG becomes a god. Then there's the issue of it not shutting down her kiss and hosing the party if they move into the room (and maybe out of it, I imagine smoke thick enough to cause this would also block visibility), then theirs the DM dependent quesiton of how many rounds would it take for smoke to get bad enough to cause choking in a room of that size?

[MaxWilson]

The party is unaware, but unless losing verbal stops the ritual (there's no indication of that) then this isn't going to work fast enough within the 10 rounds before the BBEG becomes a god. Then there's the issue of it not shutting down her kiss and hosing the party if they move into the room (and maybe out of it, I imagine smoke thick enough to cause this would also block visibility), then theirs the DM dependent quesiton of how many rounds would it take for smoke to get bad enough to cause choking in a room of that size?

Boy, wouldn't it be convenient if there were a monk in this party instead of a paladin, so you could stop the ritual by stunning her?

[Dork_Forge]

Boy, wouldn't it be convenient if there were a monk in this party instead of a paladin, so you could stop the ritual by stunning her?

Wait did we stop hating Monks already? Which direction is my pitchfork meant to point now?!

[da newt]

We were fairly new and far from optimal in anyway. For example, our druid cast conjure animals exactly once the whole campaign, I'd never seen calm emotions used, etc.

So, how would a clever party succeed where we failed (it wasn't even close - we got curb stomped)?

Silence, dispel magic, calm emotions, conjure animals, etc all good ideas. How do you get Vrocks? Is a wall of stone effective against a caster w/ disintegrate? If the BBEG blows a kiss at the druid concentrating on animals do they all go away or just get new instructions to protect the BBEG?

As an aside - in your games does the DM tell you are facing animated armor, or describe a foe as wearing full plate, helm, visor and wielding a great sword? Do you encounter 9' tall humanoids w/ oily green skin and long clawed hands or a Troll?

[Nhorianscum]

We were fairly new and far from optimal in anyway. For example, our druid cast conjure animals exactly once the whole campaign, I'd never seen calm emotions used, etc.

So, how would a clever party succeed where we failed (it wasn't even close - we got curb stomped)?

Silence, dispel magic, calm emotions, conjure animals, etc all good ideas. How do you get Vrocks? Is a wall of stone effective against a caster w/ disintegrate? If the BBEG blows a kiss at the druid concentrating on animals do they all go away or just get new instructions to protect the BBEG?

As an aside - in your games does the DM tell you are facing animated armor, or describe a foe as wearing full plate, helm, visor and wielding a great sword? Do you encounter 9' tall humanoids w/ oily green skin and long clawed hands or a Troll?

In a zone of silence? No.

(The trick is to segment the interior of the box so you can both deny the save and restrict her to the zone of silence. This also layers the box so that even casting disintigrate is only enough to break one wall)

Outside of silence?

Disintegrate "can" blast one wall, if she does, w/e stone can be layered into multiple walls and pockets and is large enough to just cover the entire room with a lockbox maze of your own design.

One blast = 1 wall vs many, many, many, walls. It's non-magical so RIP dispel magic.

Her candle casting just moves the source, it does not remove her requirements for the spell and we can just lock up the candles as well.

It's actually really hard to break wall of stone.

[MaxWilson]

Silence, dispel magic, calm emotions, conjure animals, etc all good ideas. How do you get Vrocks?

Summon Greater Demon is a 4th level Warlock spell, upcastable to 5th level. It lets you pick a demon of your choice (e.g. Barlgura) of CR no greater than N+1, where N is the spell level. So with 5th level slots you can summon a CR 6 Vrock or a CR 6 Chasme or any of the lesser demons (Dybbuks are interesting). Maybe a Chasme would actually be a better choice here than the Vrock, I'm not sure, but that's how you get them.

(I chose Vrock over Chasme because of the stunning and weapon resistance, but Chasmes have a better action economy and do loads more damage but some of it is necrotic.)


Is a wall of stone effective against a caster w/ disintegrate? If the BBEG blows a kiss at the druid concentrating on animals do they all go away or just get new instructions to protect the BBEG?

This is why you want to send the summons into the room but not the PCs--the caster is vulnerable to control or disruption. DM and/or player would have to rule on what happens to the animals if the PC is in love with the BBEG, but it's better to just not have that problem because the PC is behind total cover (not in the room).


As an aside - in your games does the DM tell you are facing animated armor, or describe a foe as wearing full plate, helm, visor and wielding a great sword? Do you encounter 9' tall humanoids w/ oily green skin and long clawed hands or a Troll?

My favorite way to do these things is to establish a precedent with the players: when they meet a new type of monster, I describe it, and then THEY have to come up with a name for it and a way of recognizing it. I write that name down in my notes and then use it going forward for any monster that matches that description. If they meet an 8' tall stony creature with a big club and call it a "troll", well then now "there's a troll attacking you", and now you can summon "trolls" (Earth Elementals) with a 5th level spell. If you tell me that the vaguely humanoid thing with glistening skin and eyes/hands vaguely like those of an unborn child, except with tentacles for a mouth, is a Squidward... well, that Squidward is now blasting you all with psionic power and trying to suck Bob's brains out.

Here's a thread on the topic: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?605060-Naming-and-renaming-as-a-core-aspect-of-play-PEACH

Core motivation: to make gameplay more player-centric and more fun for the players. From the thread: This new procedure would have no impact at all on player agency and their ability to create outcomes, but I believe it would have an effect on the experience of play. Instead of players passively waiting for the DM to finish a probably-irrelevant description of exactly what a Star Spawn Grue looks like so they can roll initiative and start killing things, now you've got an active listening cycle where the DMs and players have a conversation where they come to a mutual agreement about what this horrific new aberration [Star Spawn Grues] actually looks like, in both of their imaginations, well enough so that the DM knows (or at least thinks he knows) what the players see in their heads. And if they are careless and just assume that any hunched, shadowy form is definitely a Space Orc [Star Spawn Grue] they have no one to blame but themselves when the tactical implications bite them in the form of a six-armed [Star Spawn Mangler]!

[da newt]

So Cleric casts Silence first while prohibiting counter spell reaction, then something to keep the BBEG from legendary action out of the area, Druid casts Wall of Stone second (must be cast from outside of Silence AoE but where you can see the area you want to wall), then mop up the minions while the BBEG continues her ritual behind the stone wall, then drop the wall and resume fight w/ just the BBEG?

All the while ensuring none of your party are Kissed (on her team) because Cleric can't Calm Emotions and Silence at the same time...


Crap - I didn't check Xanthars Spells ...

[Nhorianscum]

So Cleric casts Silence first while prohibiting counter spell reaction, then something to keep the BBEG from legendary action out of the area, Druid casts Wall of Stone second (must be cast from outside of Silence AoE but where you can see the area you want to wall), then mop up the minions while the BBEG continues her ritual behind the stone wall, then drop the wall and resume fight w/ just the BBEG?

All the while ensuring none of your party are Kissed (on her team) because Cleric can't Calm Emotions and Silence at the same time...


Crap - I didn't check Xanthars Spells ...

Nah, just hold action silence for the end of her move as wall goes up from outside counterspell range.

If a party member gets kissed... how? It has 30 ft of range. No worries.

Edit: on second though we have enough wall to just lock up everything and go straight to the BBEG. Drop, and blick her.

[Valmark]

We were fairly new and far from optimal in anyway. For example, our druid cast conjure animals exactly once the whole campaign, I'd never seen calm emotions used, etc.

So, how would a clever party succeed where we failed (it wasn't even close - we got curb stomped)?

Silence, dispel magic, calm emotions, conjure animals, etc all good ideas. How do you get Vrocks? Is a wall of stone effective against a caster w/ disintegrate? If the BBEG blows a kiss at the druid concentrating on animals do they all go away or just get new instructions to protect the BBEG?

As an aside - in your games does the DM tell you are facing animated armor, or describe a foe as wearing full plate, helm, visor and wielding a great sword? Do you encounter 9' tall humanoids w/ oily green skin and long clawed hands or a Troll?
I have to ask, how does your DM run Conjure Animals? Many DMs run it in many different ways, could be that their way makes the spell not worth it.

With Silence the Kiss doesn't do much- can't be ordered around. The BBEG can be beaten without killing them while still disrupting the ritual, which should appease the protection part.

On the troll you are kinda right- in the groups I am in most of the time we use pictures, so that problem would be there only if we don't know what we are looking at. But regarding the AA... If that's what your DM told you, they lied. An animated armor doesn't look like somebody wearing an armor nor like a golem in case that was a problem, unless they are disguised somehow. The empty space between the helm and the chest piece should be a dead give away.


So Cleric casts Silence first while prohibiting counter spell reaction, then something to keep the BBEG from legendary action out of the area, Druid casts Wall of Stone second (must be cast from outside of Silence AoE but where you can see the area you want to wall), then mop up the minions while the BBEG continues her ritual behind the stone wall, then drop the wall and resume fight w/ just the BBEG?

All the while ensuring none of your party are Kissed (on her team) because Cleric can't Calm Emotions and Silence at the same time...

Crap - I didn't check Xanthars Spells ...

Note that the BBEG cannot get out as long as someone is in front of the door, regardless of what legendary actions they use.

[da newt]

Max - Vrock stun is a save, BBEG has legendary resistance, the Vrock has ADV and +4 for Wiz saves, but a successful KISS and now you have Vrock to fight too ... high risk / high reward.

Nhorianscum: Counterspell is 60' range, the room is 20X40. If we ignore that, walk me through the specifics of your plan turn by turn including movement and legendary actions - I just can't picture it. And your starting assumptions are that the Armor has been destroyed, the door is open, and the BBEG hasn't acted yet (cast Evard's or Cloud Kill)?

Val, if the AoE of Silence is the whole room, it makes it very hard for any PC's to get into a position on the landing where they have line of sight to cast and are outside the silence, and the silence caster probably doesn't want to be the one blocking the door or they are a target ...

"The charmed target regards BBEG as his or her true love to be heeded and protected, through violence against others if need be." - charmed PC's don't need to be directed to take action, depending on how you interpret this ...

Show me how it works - I'm rooting for ya.

[MaxWilson]

Max - Vrock stun is a save, BBEG has legendary resistance, the Vrock has ADV and +4 for Wiz saves, but a successful KISS and now you have Vrock to fight too ... high risk / high reward.

Vrock stun is mostly for the sake of the Thugs and Witches, not the BBEG. Animals will follow up by attacking stunned targets with advantage while PCs take turns approaching the doorway and spewing AoEs/Eldritch Blasts/etc. into the room. It's not clear to me whether Kiss makes you have to fight the Vrock or not (how does a Vrock treat a target it's in love with? and emotions don't override the magic of Summon Greater Demon anyway unless/until the Vrock breaks free), and even if it does the Vrock has already spent its best attack (Stun) so who cares... it's not like any PCs are taking damage from it anyway, just conjured meatshields (wolves/snakes/monkeys/whatever). Not high risk. It's a cheap, low-risk opener to clear the board of Thugs/Witches/etc. and maybe hurt the BBEG too, depending.

Try rolling it, you'll see.

[Nhorianscum]

Max - Vrock stun is a save, BBEG has legendary resistance, the Vrock has ADV and +4 for Wiz saves, but a successful KISS and now you have Vrock to fight too ... high risk / high reward.

Nhorianscum: Counterspell is 60' range, the room is 20X40. If we ignore that, walk me through the specifics of your plan turn by turn including movement and legendary actions - I just can't picture it. And your starting assumptions are that the Armor has been destroyed, the door is open, and the BBEG hasn't acted yet (cast Evard's or Cloud Kill)?

Val, if the AoE of Silence is the whole room, it makes it very hard for any PC's to get into a position on the landing where they have line of sight to cast and are outside the silence, and the silence caster probably doesn't want to be the one blocking the door or they are a target ...

"The charmed target regards BBEG as his or her true love to be heeded and protected, through violence against others if need be." - charmed PC's don't need to be directed to take action, depending on how you interpret this ...

Show me how it works - I'm rooting for ya.

Edit: Disclaimer: look at wall of stone, now back at me, now back at the room. It really does not matter what we do, we can scribble around like a kid with crayons and still get our ideal result. BBEG in a super tiny silent room full of allies with no LOS out and the druid crammed into the only exit as an elephantine plug. I'm goin sideways because it's hilarious to me personally and I will never not sideways stone wall, but it's impossible to mess this up.

------------

Oh God it's a 20×40 room. That changes everything.

Barb shoves armor and thug.

Druid winds up and...

Wall of stone 3 ft off the ground. Full room, horizontal with a ramp and passage at the doorway. Buttressing under the wall forms a reverse spiral forcing all enemies to move prone for a full round minimum to exit, one at a time. (Shrink room to silence+GoF size as well and make sure candles are blocked.)

Select all but BBEG under. (This is a bit tricky, we're redefining enemy spaces by the squeeze rule here so that the wall does not end inside their space after forced movement)

Proceed to gang BBEG as cleric simultaneously silences the entire room sans a 5ft corner for itself, and another for the lock. The rest of the party fills the remaining space and just meat locks BBEG.

Warlock can counterspell if needed to set this up.

Druid wildshapes into something big that doesn't care about poison or just has a brick of HP and bodyblocks the corridor with the squeeze rule as a meat plug. It can just tank cloudkill and a prone mook if it needs to with slot healing.

Party has the BBEG trapped, isolated, and are free to just wail on her in peace. She can kiss one or two of them but that's not going to stop the pain train and they're all pala aura'd, this is now a tiny room with no movement allowed. The cleric is just casting GoF 3x here. That's 180 no-save damage. She dead. (Or if your table rules that it cannot stack because GoF is weird, SW and GoF.)

[da newt]

If a summoner/conjurer is kissed, now the summons/conjures become enemies of the party. If a summoned demon is kissed, it becomes an enemy of the party (and if they are not controlled, they stick around for 1d6 turns, so you can't just drop the spell, right?) If the KISS just created the charm condition, no big deal, but it conveys so much more.

"The charmed target regards BBEG as his or her true love to be heeded and protected, through violence against others if need be." - charmed PC's don't need to be directed to take action, depending on how you interpret this ... (and my DM took 'to be protected through violence' as the KISSED must attack whoever threatens the BBEG)


How do you prohibit counter spell from denying a wall of stone? Silence doesn't stop it, you can't be out of range, and you can't cast it someplace you can't see - so you could cast from the landing, but only wall where you have LOS.

It's so hard to get around the action economy of the powerful legendary actions and resistances, and the KISS results in your parties numbers decreasing while the BBEG's grow.

If the door is open, Evards and Cloud Kill spill out making your day even more crappy.

[Unoriginal]

Question: did/do the DM rules that every spellcasters with Counterspell can automatically identify any spell being cast?

[Gignere]

Yeah the party will need to bait the counterspell. So if the cleric silence gets counterspell, warlock need to cast some kind of vision blocking or the Druid need to following the cleric. Of course this depends on the exact initiative order. Once vision is blocked Kiss won’t be nearly as effective as the BBEG has to attack with disadvantage. But we don’t have the full spell lists for the lock or Druid. Presumably the warlock would have at least darkness if not shadow of moils.

Some sort of conjuring is probably the best bet for the Druid, if the darkness was successfully cast maybe cast giant insect, as a few of those has blindsight.

Man this party composition is tough on this fight I’m not use to not having counterspell from someone on the party’s side.

[Valmark]

If a summoner/conjurer is kissed, now the summons/conjures become enemies of the party. If a summoned demon is kissed, it becomes an enemy of the party (and if they are not controlled, they stick around for 1d6 turns, so you can't just drop the spell, right?) If the KISS just created the charm condition, no big deal, but it conveys so much more.

"The charmed target regards BBEG as his or her true love to be heeded and protected, through violence against others if need be." - charmed PC's don't need to be directed to take action, depending on how you interpret this ... (and my DM took 'to be protected through violence' as the KISSED must attack whoever threatens the BBEG)


How do you prohibit counter spell from denying a wall of stone? Silence doesn't stop it, you can't be out of range, and you can't cast it someplace you can't see - so you could cast from the landing, but only wall where you have LOS.

It's so hard to get around the action economy of the powerful legendary actions and resistances, and the KISS results in your parties numbers decreasing while the BBEG's grow.

If the door is open, Evards and Cloud Kill spill out making your day even more crappy.

I guess it's up to the DM. If I'm under no compel to obey the BBEG (since they can't say anything) I can easily think that the ritual must be stopped for everybody's good. All it takes is for the BBEG to be downed with a non-lethal attack.

Counterspell can be Counterspelled.

Evard and Cloud Kill can be stopped by Silence. Or have the summons wail on it to disrupt Concentration anyway- demons are compelled to Attack the nearest target when uncontrolled anyway. When controlled they are... Well, controlled.

I'm assuming no melee has gotten within melee yet when saying this.

[da newt]

Casters recognize spells they know, otherwise they gamble with spell slot used ... so in this case BBEG would not recognize Stone Wall for example, but does have many spell slots.

[Valmark]

Yeah the party will need to bait the counterspell. So if the cleric silence gets counterspell, warlock need to cast some kind of vision blocking or the Druid need to following the cleric. Of course this depends on the exact initiative order. Once vision is blocked Kiss won’t be nearly as effective as the BBEG has to attack with disadvantage. But we don’t have the full spell lists for the lock or Druid. Presumably the warlock would have at least darkness if not shadow of moils.

Some sort of conjuring is probably the best bet for the Druid, if the darkness was successfully cast maybe cast giant insect, as a few of those has blindsight.

Man this party composition is tough on this fight I’m not use to not having counterspell from someone on the party’s side.

Warlock have Counterspell!

[Nhorianscum]

If a summoner/conjurer is kissed, now the summons/conjures become enemies of the party. If a summoned demon is kissed, it becomes an enemy of the party (and if they are not controlled, they stick around for 1d6 turns, so you can't just drop the spell, right?) If the KISS just created the charm condition, no big deal, but it conveys so much more.

"The charmed target regards BBEG as his or her true love to be heeded and protected, through violence against others if need be." - charmed PC's don't need to be directed to take action, depending on how you interpret this ... (and my DM took 'to be protected through violence' as the KISSED must attack whoever threatens the BBEG)


How do you prohibit counter spell from denying a wall of stone? Silence doesn't stop it, you can't be out of range, and you can't cast it someplace you can't see - so you could cast from the landing, but only wall where you have LOS.

It's so hard to get around the action economy of the powerful legendary actions and resistances, and the KISS results in your parties numbers decreasing while the BBEG's grow.

If the door is open, Evards and Cloud Kill spill out making your day even more crappy.

Just have the lock counterspell the counterspell and evards. Then she's in a silent meat box and we don't care.

Once plan "just kill her" is in effect she can kiss away. It's not going to save her from the 100ish DPR she's facing anywhere near fast enough to matter.

[MaxWilson]

If a summoner/conjurer is kissed, now the summons/conjures become enemies of the party. If a summoned demon is kissed, it becomes an enemy of the party (and if they are not controlled, they stick around for 1d6 turns, so you can't just drop the spell, right?) If the KISS just created the charm condition, no big deal, but it conveys so much more.

Note: summoned demons are already enemies to the party, as omnicidal maniacs. They are however compelled to obey the summoner at least briefly.

You utter foul words, summoning one demon from the chaos of the Abyss. You choose the demon’s type, which must be one of challenge rating 5 or lower, such as a shadow demon or a barlgura. The demon appears in an unoccupied space you can see within range, and the demon disappears when it drops to 0 hit points or when the spell ends.

Roll initiative for the demon, which has its own turns. When you summon it and on each of your turns thereafter, you can issue a verbal command to it (requiring no action on your part), telling it what it must do on its next turn. If you issue no command, it spends its turn attacking any creature within reach that has attacked it.

At the end of each of the demon’s turns, it makes a Charisma saving throw. The demon has disadvantage on this saving throw if you say its true name. On a failed save, the demon continues to obey you. On a successful save, your control of the demon ends for the rest of the duration, and the demon spends its turns pursuing and attacking the nearest non-demons to the best of its ability. If you stop concentrating on the spell before it reaches its full duration, an uncontrolled demon doesn’t disappear for 1d6 rounds if it still has hit points.

As part of casting the spell, you can form a circle on the ground with the blood used as a material component. The circle is large enough to encompass your space. While the spell lasts, the summoned demon can’t cross the circle or harm it, and it can’t target anyone within it. Using the material component in this manner consumes it when the spell ends.

However, it's not a big deal IMO even if you lose control of the demon after it gets Kissed, and it falls in love and starts helping the BBEG. It's just highly amusing, because ewwww. Either way the Vrock has already spent its big attack (AoE stun) and helped kill off the thugs/witches, as well as buying time for more AoEs and ranged attacks. The sixteen conjured giant poisonous snakes/wolves/whatever actually 4x to 8x more damage than the Vrock does, but the chances of them all falling in love with the BBEG are zero. There's just not enough time for her to Kiss them all, and meanwhile the Thugs and Witches are possibly Stunned and definitely being murdered.


Yeah the party will need to bait the counterspell. So if the cleric silence gets counterspell, warlock need to cast some kind of vision blocking or the Druid need to following the cleric. Of course this depends on the exact initiative order. Once vision is blocked Kiss won’t be nearly as effective as the BBEG has to attack with disadvantage. But we don’t have the full spell lists for the lock or Druid. Presumably the warlock would have at least darkness if not shadow of moils.

Some sort of conjuring is probably the best bet for the Druid, if the darkness was successfully cast maybe cast giant insect, as a few of those has blindsight.

Man this party composition is tough on this fight I’m not use to not having counterspell from someone on the party’s side.

Why would the cleric get Counterspelled? All that is required is a place with total cover from which to cast spells (which they have, outside the room), and free concentration (which they have, because Silence is going to eat that concentration anyway but it hasn't taken effect yet) and a reaction they're not going to need for something else (which they have because clerics have no good reaction spells).

Event sequence: Cleric Readies a Silence spell to go off as soon as they can see the whole interior of the room, which involves casting the spell. Then walks through the doorway, quite keeping concentration on the held spell. Spell goes off (but was cast previously, so cannot be Counterspelled).

[Valmark]

Also not being a Sheperd the animals probably die from a Kiss.

There again a Druid Sheperd could probably destroy the BBEG in two rounds, given that their animals would bypass the resistances- in that case Calm Emotions would be a no brainer to keep the Druid concentrated.

[MaxWilson]

Also not being a Sheperd the animals probably die from a Kiss.

There again a Druid Sheperd could probably destroy the BBEG in two rounds, given that their animals would bypass the resistances- in that case Calm Emotions would be a no brainer to keep the Druid concentrated.

Or just keep the druid out of sight at the foot of the stairs.

[Gignere]

Note: summoned demons are already enemies to the party, as omnicidal maniacs. They are however compelled to obey the summoner at least briefly.

You utter foul words, summoning one demon from the chaos of the Abyss. You choose the demon’s type, which must be one of challenge rating 5 or lower, such as a shadow demon or a barlgura. The demon appears in an unoccupied space you can see within range, and the demon disappears when it drops to 0 hit points or when the spell ends.

Roll initiative for the demon, which has its own turns. When you summon it and on each of your turns thereafter, you can issue a verbal command to it (requiring no action on your part), telling it what it must do on its next turn. If you issue no command, it spends its turn attacking any creature within reach that has attacked it.

At the end of each of the demon’s turns, it makes a Charisma saving throw. The demon has disadvantage on this saving throw if you say its true name. On a failed save, the demon continues to obey you. On a successful save, your control of the demon ends for the rest of the duration, and the demon spends its turns pursuing and attacking the nearest non-demons to the best of its ability. If you stop concentrating on the spell before it reaches its full duration, an uncontrolled demon doesn’t disappear for 1d6 rounds if it still has hit points.

As part of casting the spell, you can form a circle on the ground with the blood used as a material component. The circle is large enough to encompass your space. While the spell lasts, the summoned demon can’t cross the circle or harm it, and it can’t target anyone within it. Using the material component in this manner consumes it when the spell ends.

However, it's not a big deal IMO even if you lose control of the demon after it gets Kissed, and it falls in love and starts helping the BBEG. It's just highly amusing, because ewwww. Either way the Vrock has already spent its big attack (AoE stun) and helped kill off the thugs/witches, as well as buying time for more AoEs and ranged attacks. The sixteen conjured giant poisonous snakes/wolves/whatever actually 4x to 8x more damage than the Vrock does, but the chances of them all falling in love with the BBEG are zero. There's just not enough time for her to Kiss them all, and meanwhile the Thugs and Witches are possibly Stunned and definitely being murdered.



Why would the cleric get Counterspelled? All that is required is a place with total cover from which to cast spells (which they have, outside the room), and free concentration (which they have, because Silence is going to eat that concentration anyway but it hasn't taken effect yet) and a reaction they're not going to need for something else (which they have because clerics have no good reaction spells).

Event sequence: Cleric Readies a Silence spell to go off as soon as they can see the whole interior of the room, which involves casting the spell. Then walks through the doorway, quite keeping concentration on the held spell. Spell goes off (but was cast previously, so cannot be Counterspelled).

Not sure if casting out of sight and holding is a legitimate counter to CS. It might vary between table and personally I would rule CS would still work against a held spell. Unless RAW is unequivocal.

[MaxWilson]

Not sure if casting out of sight and holding is a legitimate counter to CS. It might vary between table and personally I would rule CS would still work against a held spell. Unless RAW is unequivocal.

RAW is unequivocal: releasing a readied spell is not casting.

"When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and holding onto the spell's magic requires concentration. If your concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect. For example, if you are concentrating on the web spell and ready magic missile, your web spell ends, and if you take damage before you release magic missile with your reaction, your concentration might be broken."

Counterspell only works if you see someone casting.

It's totally fine of course if the DM (@da newt) decides that's dumb and changes things to work differently, as long as the players know. I certainly have changed things when I DM. Can we get a ruling here @da newt?

[da newt]

The lvl 9 party casters have a single 5th level spell slot. The BBEG has 2 5th, 1 6th, and 1 7th. The BBEG can counter with near impunity if they choose to.

I don't know the RAW for counter spell vs ready action cast, I'll have to research it, but let's assume if you ready an action to cast a spell in an unseen location (so it can't be countered), then reaction cast it after your turn, do you have to cast behind cover, then move into position, end your turn, wait for trigger, then reaction finish casting? Wouldn't this leave you exposed for at least one turn? Or are you suggesting that the reaction/trigger happens on your turn when you move? (I guess if your trigger is when the door opens, if you are standing in the right place for LOS behind a closed door, it would work.)

Counter has no verbal requirement. Even with SILENCE in effect, Stone Wall could be countered (unless it is also precast out of sight).

A successful SILENCE and keeping concentration is a game changer, but will suck up the Cleric's Conc and prohibit them from Calming Emotions etc. A successful Stone Wall is great for a temp isolation of the BBEG so you can mop up the minions, but the ritual continues and the clock keeps ticking.

[da newt]

How do we best get into a position to deal with the BBEG and others in the ritual room?

Do all the party members use their first turn to ready move actions after the PC in front of them moves?
If the Warloc knows dispel magic works he should definitely cast it.

Or do you have a better plan for dealing with the Armor?



So let's assume round 1 is complete, the armor is dispelled and occupying one corner of the 10x10 landing at the top of the stairs. The door is shut. Now what? 3 PCs can stand on the landing, the others are stacked up on the stairs. Who opens the door, when. Where does everyone stand. Who acts, who readies, who moves etc.

[Valmark]

The lvl 9 party casters have a single 5th level spell slot. The BBEG has 2 5th, 1 6th, and 1 7th. The BBEG can counter with near impunity if they choose to.

I don't know the RAW for counter spell vs ready action cast, I'll have to research it, but let's assume if you ready an action to cast a spell in an unseen location (so it can't be countered), then reaction cast it after your turn, do you have to cast behind cover, then move into position, end your turn, wait for trigger, then reaction finish casting? Wouldn't this leave you exposed for at least one turn?

Counter has no verbal requirement. Even with SILENCE in effect, Stone Wall could be countered (unless it is also precast out of sight).

A successful SILENCE and keeping concentration is a game changer, but will suck up the Cleric's Conc and prohibit them from Calming Emotions etc. A successful Stone Wall is great for a temp isolation of the BBEG so you can mop up the minions, but the ritual continues and the clock keeps ticking.

Remember that the warlock has 2 5th level slots, not one. To Counter the party's 5th level spells the boss would need to consume their strongest spell slots, I'd call that a win for the party (nevermind that they get only one reaction each turn, so they can't Counterspell everything).

The trigger could very well be "when the next creature moves" (as in, moves their body, not movement movement. Lifting a finger is enough).

I thought somebody said to use the Wall Of Stone to remove the minions from the fight instead of the opposite?

[Nhorianscum]

How do we best get into a position to deal with the BBEG and others in the ritual room?

Do all the party members use their first turn to ready move actions after the PC in front of them moves?
If the Warloc knows dispel magic works he should definitely cast it.

Or do you have a better plan for dealing with the Armor?



So let's assume round 1 is complete, the armor is dispelled and occupying one corner of the 10x10 landing at the top of the stairs. The door is shut. Now what? 3 PCs can stand on the landing, the others are stacked up on the stairs. Who opens the door, when. Where does everyone stand. Who acts, who readies, who moves etc.

Assuming we start at the landing...

Getting into the room is simple enough, just walk on in and take positions in your desired boss stompy meatwad and hold actions, take potshots, or cast silencewall as needed.

Wall pops all but BBEG out of the fight, shoves BBEG into our meatball (triggering held actions), reduces the room to the size of our meatball with a druid meat plug, and functionally denies lair actions.

It's a really dumb spell.

-------------

Assuming we start in the hall.

Same but just dash instead of holding actions, barb will need to action surge for a shove on the thug and armor.

Then wall+silence goes up and movement stops mattering because we're yet again, in a functionally locked room where all that matters is a DPR race that is stacked "a lot" vs 1.

[MaxWilson]

How do we best get into a position to deal with the BBEG and others in the ritual room?

Do all the party members use their first turn to ready move actions after the PC in front of them moves?
If the Warloc knows dispel magic works he should definitely cast it.

Or do you have a better plan for dealing with the Armor?

So let's assume round 1 is complete, the armor is dispelled and occupying one corner of the 10x10 landing at the top of the stairs. The door is shut. Now what? 3 PCs can stand on the landing, the others are stacked up on the stairs. Who opens the door, when. Where does everyone stand. Who acts, who readies, who moves etc.

IMO Dispel Magic is a waste. Just shove it off the stairs and/or beat it to death before entering the room. It can't stand up to six PCs, and it was a tactical mistake for the witch to order it to fight the party alone. Waste of an animated armor.

Who opens the door, etc. depends on which plan you're going for. I am still going for the summons plan because, importantly, it does not rely on knowledge of the BBEG's weaknesses, it's just a generic kill plan with low risk. In order for this to work we need someone to Dodge and then open the door and trigger any reactions and then move back out of the way, then the warlock to cast Summon Greater Demon inside the room from the doorway and then move back out of the way, then the druid to cast Conjure Animals V and then move back out of the way. Therefore the warlock, druid, and door opener need to all be on the landing. I suggest having the Paladin do the door opening but it depends on initiative order (PHB initiative really interferes quite a lot with PC cooperation) and ultimately doesn't really matter anyway. Put the Rogue first in line at the head of the stairwell so they can pop in behind the summoned meatshields and start shooting at whatever is in the room. Cleric can pre-cast Bless on warlock/rogue/druid/door-opener, but be ready and willing to drop Bless (it's only a 2nd level slot) and switch to another defense if needed (Calm Emotions when it becomes clear that Charm is a problem). Druid is ready to recast Conjure Animals if needed (Dispel Magic) or Erupting Earth/Blight if not.