bardadin Oathbreaker whispers bard, satyr, taking to level 20

[Wizard_Lizard]

Ok so, Right now I have a pc who is level 15, they're a satyr with 11 levels in oathbreaker paladin, and 4 in whispers bard, their stats at the moment are 18str, 10dex, 14con, 12int, 12wis, 18cha. I'm just wondering for when I level up, what would be the best split to go through, till level 20? And any ideas for feats/asi I should take? At the moment they have dual wielder.

[Hellpyre]

Next level depends on if you plan to progress Bard all the way to 9 for 5th level spells or not. If you want 5ths and extra smiting slots, keep progressing Bard, otherwise taking Paladin to 12th for CHA ASI is probably your strongest choice in the near term. The level after, in either case, I would take a 5th level in Bard for 3rd level Bard spell access. It's probably best to stop there, since the 6th level feature for Whisper Bard isn't super impactful day-to-day, while the 15th level Oathbreaker ability makes for a pretty solid capstone feature for you.

[RogueJK]

... taking Paladin to 12th for CHA ASI is probably your strongest choice in the near term. The level after, in either case, I would take a 5th level in Bard for 3rd level Bard spell access. It's probably best to stop there, since the 6th level feature for Whisper Bard isn't super impactful day-to-day, while the 15th level Oathbreaker ability makes for a pretty solid capstone feature for you.

I agree that levels beyond Bard 5 don't get you much from the Bard class/subclass abilities.

But the flip side of it is that is you don't really need the Oathbreaker's Level 15 resistance to nonmagical weapons. (I mean, how often are you going to be running into nonmagical weapon damage at 20th level...) And if you stop at Bard 5, you're not gaining any additional spell slots from Paladin 13-15. You're capped at 4/3/3/3/2/1 after Paladin 12/Bard 5. But Paladin 13 does get you 4th level Paladin spells, though.

Whereas Stopping at Paladin 13 and getting to Bard 7 gets you an additional 7th level slot, which while not very useful for Smiting (which caps at 6d8 or the equivalent of a 5th level slot), would at least allow you to upcast with it (handy for some of your spells like Banishment, Confusion, Elemental Weapon, and potentially even Bestow Curse for 24 hour duration). Plus you'd get a couple additional 4th level Bard spells, like Dimension Door and Charm Monster.

So I'd do Paladin 12 for ASI to max CHA, then Bard 5 for 3rd level Bard spells, a 6th level slot, and short rest Inspiration dice reset, then Paladin 13 for 4th level Paladin spells, then Bard 7 for 4th level Bard spells and 7th level spell slot.

[Wizard_Lizard]

Looking at cleansing touch, that can be quite useful, but maybe I'll do 13/7 because other than cleansing touch there isn't too much there. Thanks for the advice!

[RogueJK]

If you want Cleansing Touch, a Paladin 14/Bard 6 gets a 7th level spell slot as well, for upcasting. You'd just be trading the ability to learn 4th level Bard spells, in exchange for getting Cleaning Touch.

Do you want to be more mobile and controlling with Dimension Door and upcast Charm Monster, or do you want to be more defensive by using your action to end status effects on yourself and party members? Now that I think about it, Cleansing Touch 5x/day is probably stronger overall than a couple additional 4th level spells known, especially at 19th/20th level. (Even though with your high Paladin save bonuses plus Magic Resistance, the chances of you personally being affected by any spell effects are low. :smallbiggrin:)

This route, I'd do Paladin 12, then Bard 5, then Paladin 14, then Bard 6.

[Hellpyre]

But the flip side of it is that is you don't really need the Oathbreaker's Level 15 resistance to nonmagical weapons. (I mean, how often are you going to be running into nonmagical weapon damage at 20th level...) And if you stop at Bard 5, you're not gaining any additional spell slots from Paladin 13-15. You're capped at 4/3/3/3/2/1 after Paladin 12/Bard 5. But Paladin 13 does get you 4th level Paladin spells, though.


The first point is fair, if somewhat campaign-dependent. I've certainly been invloved in a number of campaigns where high-end foes were wielding magical weapons or had abilities like a Pit Fiend's that make them count as magical, but I've been in more where things like dragons dominated the higher levels and it would be very useful.

For the second, it's certainly a good point, but I feel like Cleansing Touch is a good enough ability to warrant 14/6 if you already are going to at least Paladin 12, and usually that's what I would recommend on most Bardadins if the Bard ability is one they like. But losing a single 7th level slot (without the ability to prepare natively-7th-level spells) when you don't care about the 6th level College feature is not as big a deal to me as gaining the resistance from Oathbreaker 15 is. If you don't expect the resistance to matter, a 14/6 split to pick up Cleansing Touch will probably be better in most situations than a 13/7 to pick up 4th-level known Bard spells.