swapping bonus feats

[Raishoiken]

Aside from the marshall, are there any other classes that allow you to pik a new feat if you already have the bonus feat it's giving?

[Thurbane]

Aside from the marshall, are there any other classes that allow you to pik a new feat if you already have the bonus feat it's giving?

Dragon Samurai 8 (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906c)
Favored Soul 3 & 12
Healer 2
Tactical Solider 2
Warmage 7/10/15/20 (metamagic feats only)

...seems to be a bit of a Miniatures Handbook thing.

Animal Lord 6
Argent Fist 1
Hand of the Winged Masters 1 (draconic feats only)
Malconvoker 3
Moonspeaker 7 (shifter feats only)
Ordained Champion 2
Pact-bound Adept 3
Swift Wing 2 (draconic feats only)

There are probably others as well.

[Venger]

There are a couple, such as swiftblade. Is there something specific you're trying to do?

[Doctor Despair]

I suppose technically that would let you have the "granted" feat to trigger the class to let you select any feat, then retrain out of the "granted" feat into some other feat, right? Basically turning any class with that feature into any bonus feat rather than a specific feat?

[sreservoir]

The Dragon Samurai 8 Blind-Fight bonus feat (MH 20) also has this clause. Miniatures Handbook really loves this mechanic, huh.

Walker in the Waste 1 Improved Heat Endurance (Sandstorm 90).

Holt Warden 9's timeless body feature (CC 85) isn't exactly a feat itself, lets you pick a bonus feat if you already have timeless body. (Finding a way to make this provision useful is ... left as an exercise to the reader.)

The Ritual of Prophecy (MoE 44), a dragon totem ritual, temporarily grants either Dragon Prophesier or, if you already have it, any feat that requires it as a prereq.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Any class that allows you to cast (either through your own spells or via UMD) embrace the dark chaos and shun the dark chaos. Swap a bonus feat to an Abyssal heritor feat, then to another feat of your choice -- or just keep the Abyssal heritor feat, if you want it.

[sreservoir]

Any class that allows you to cast (either through your own spells or via UMD) embrace the dark chaos and shun the dark chaos. Swap a bonus feat to an Abyssal heritor feat, then to another feat of your choice -- or just keep the Abyssal heritor feat, if you want it.

Or head to a metropolis to get a pair of 15th-level castings of it as a spellcasting service for 4900 gp per feat swapped (15*80 for spell + 250*5 for xp cost = 2450 gp each, which is within the 3000 gp limit noted).

[Raishoiken]

Or head to a metropolis to get a pair of 15th-level castings of it as a spellcasting service for 4900 gp per feat swapped (15*80 for spell + 250*5 for xp cost = 2450 gp each, which is within the 3000 gp limit noted).



specifically im trying to get an extra feat to swap to one i qualify for, without the shuffle. only cuz im out of gold for a 6th shuffle but i do have a disposable final class level

[MaxiDuRaritry]

What's your build, what feat do you want to swap, what class did you use to get it, what in-game resources do you have available, what sourcebooks are available, and why do you want to swap it out?

[liquidformat]

pretty sure ranger allows you to take something else if you already have endurance, no?

[Raishoiken]

What's your build, what feat do you want to swap, what class did you use to get it, what in-game resources do you have available, what sourcebooks are available, and why do you want to swap it out?


build is a weird mash up for something im doing with my buddy hence the generic class lvls mixed in, the build (not in order) would be
rogue 1/martial monk 2/fighter 1/spellcaster arcane 1/spellcaster divine 1/martial wizard 3/expert 1/ warrior 2

All 3x books, decent amount of third party/dragon mag content. And it isn't that i have one that needs swapping, i just need access to another feat to take so i can grab a second hummingbird familiar. I have like 50 gold left for the build at the moment which has been spent mostly on permanent spell effects

[MaxiDuRaritry]

build is a weird mash up for something im doing with my buddy hence the generic class lvls mixed in, the build (not in order) would be
rogue 1/martial monk 2/fighter 1/spellcaster arcane 1/spellcaster divine 1/martial wizard 3/expert 1/ warrior 2

All 3x books, decent amount of third party/dragon mag content. And it isn't that i have one that needs swapping, i just need access to another feat to take so i can grab a second hummingbird familiar. I have like 50 gold left for the build at the moment which has been spent mostly on permanent spell effectsJust use your open feat to take Obtain Familiar or Extra Familiar?

[edit] Also, if you want permabuffs (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?546179-Un-Hallow-that-Stacks) for cheap...

[Raishoiken]

Just use your open feat to take Obtain Familiar or Extra Familiar?

[edit] Also, if you want permabuffs (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?546179-Un-Hallow-that-Stacks) for cheap...

that feat slot is already taken atm. And does i suppose the only thing preventing me from saving me some mad monies would be whether or not "include" excludes everything not.... included

[MaxiDuRaritry]

that feat slot is already taken atm. And does i suppose the only thing preventing me from saving me some mad monies would be whether or not "include" excludes everything not.... includedTypically, inclusive means "these plus anything else that might work with it," while exclusive means "only these things." Typically, exclusive abilities in 3.5 say something to the effect of "only includes [insert options here]."

If it only included those spells, absolutely nothing outside of Core would be usable with it, even if the new spells themselves said they were exceptions.

[Raishoiken]

Typically, inclusive means "these plus anything else that might work with it," while exclusive means "only these things." Typically, exclusive abilities in 3.5 say something to the effect of "only includes [insert options here]."

If it only included those spells, absolutely nothing outside of Core would be usable with it, even if the new spells themselves said they were exceptions.


my immediate feeling is that the phrase "may be" is indicating that those spells are the ones that are allowed rather than simply examples. If they gave fewer examples or even ended the list with "etc" i'd be more inclined to say you could use any spell

With how cool it would be if that was the case i almost wanna make a whole nother thread on the question of it's viability


edit: this dumb mf has been forgetting second level of expert gives a feat just like warrior

[Darrin]

pretty sure ranger allows you to take something else if you already have endurance, no?

Nope. Unless you are a Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc (Dragon Magic), in which case you can swap your racial Endurance feat for another feat you qualify for.

Other ways to swap an existing feat:

Dragonborn of Bahamut (Races of the Dragon) - There are several ways to use the Ritual of Rebirth to swap feats. First, if you're a human with a human bonus feat, you don't *have* to lose the bonus feat you took at 1st level. The text on page 10 of RotD says you can lose any other feat you have instead. This includes feats granted by class levels, such as Ranger's Track or Endurance. You can also lose armor/shield proficiency feats instead, as those are explicitly bonus feats granted from class levels (Tower Shield Proficiency from Fighter, for example). Second, if you have bonus skill ranks granted from your race, you have to subtract those from your existing skill ranks. If that means you no longer qualify for a feat, you can swap that feat for a different feat. For example, you could put 1 rank in Ride, load up on some Mounted Combat feats, then go through the Ritual of Rebirth, take away your Ride ranks, and swap all those Mounted Combat feats for another set of feats that you now qualify for. Third, on top of all the other changes from Dragonborn, you can choose to swap an existing feat for either Dragon Wings or Dragon Tail (last paragraph, RotD page 10). Again, this can be a feat granted by class levels, such as Track/Endurance from Ranger or a shield/armor proficiency from Fighter.

Desert Wind Dodge (Tome of Battle) - If you already have the Dodge feat when you take Desert Wind Dodge, you can swap Dodge for a different feat you qualify for.