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Zerryzerry

2020-10-22, 11:06 AM

Which ones are worth it?

The formula is (Caster Level) x (Spell Level) x 2000 x (duration modifier)
The duration modifier is, relative on base duration of the spell:

Rounds or rounds/level = x4
Minutes or minutes/level = x3
Tens of minutes or 10min/level = x2
Hours or hours/level = x1
24 hours or days/level = half

Current list of best ones include:
Mage Armor (+4 touch AC no spell fail/encumbrance) for 2k
Protection from Evil/good/law/chaos (for the mind protection mostly) for 4k
Camouflage (+8 hide for 3k instead of 6.4k, and is Circumstance, so it stacks)
Knight Unburdened (removes speed penalities with medium/heavy armor) for 2k
Arm (an extra useable arm) for 2k
Tail (+1DEX and +4 balance, tumble, climb) for 2k
Initiative (always first in initiative). A bit costly at 48k, but the effect is worth a lot
Good luck (when rolling a dice, always roll twice and use the best result) Still 48k, but basically gamebreaking
Spell haste (cast twice each round. Second spell is cast as a move action) For 24k, is still gamebreaking

I am still going through the spells in the manuals, found a lot that are nice (like shield or Detect Magic/evil etc) but those are the most gamebreaking ones.

i am looking mostly at 1st-level spells due to the costs, but really good ones from lvls 2/3 are good too, just keep the cost under 50k

PS: The spells Arm, Tail, Good Luck and Initiative are from Kalamar:Villain Design Handbook. There are some nasty spells there, like Cluo's Babbling Tongue and the ones i posted here

bean illus

2020-10-22, 11:56 AM

rrwoods

2020-10-22, 12:11 PM

The following custom continuous item suggestions appear on the list of necessary-capability-providing magic items (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?187851-3-5-Lists-of-Necessary-Magic-Items)

* Protection from [x], for 4,000 (edit: oh you already have this one.)
* Favor of the Martyr, for 128,000

aglondier

2020-10-22, 12:24 PM

Zera

2020-10-22, 01:12 PM

In general, if another category of magic does the same thing, default to the most expensive version.

True Strike, Mage Armour, Magic Weapon, etc generally do not get to trump basic magic weapons and armour.

Also, thanks for pointing me at those villain spells...time to abuse the hell out of cwi...

Well True Strike expires after one attack, so cannot be made in a continuos effect.
Magic weapon continuos effect cost the same as a +1 weapon (2k) so no difference.
Why mage armor cannot trump basic armor? Yes, i can concede that for a fighter a full plate is better, but for light or no armor types (wizard, sorcerer, rogue, monk and same types) get a +4, like a chain shirt, with no armor check penalty, no weight, no spell failure, and applies to touch AC. And a +4 bracer/vest is 16k, with no touch AC.

Bless weapon is decent, but limited to some builds (mostly exalted ones), or Stalker of Kharash

Favor of the Martyr is pretty good, but 128k is too much. Good Luck is more helpful for less then half the cost.

Zera

2020-10-22, 02:46 PM

Adding a couple ones:

Eyes of the Avoral (+8 RACIAL bonus to Spot) for 3k
Cloud of Knives (one free ranged attack/round) for 24k
Living Undead (immunities to Crits and precision dmg) for 24k
Lion's charge (pounce) for 24k, using the Ranger version
Know the Shadows (Partial Hide in Plain sight and +20 to hide) for 24k. Must have Shugenjia in your campaign

Erik the Green

2020-10-22, 09:47 PM

How about Ray Deflection (Spell Compendium, p166)? Bard and Sorc/Wiz 4 and 1 minute per CL means it's pretty pricey at 112K, but it provides flat immunity to all ranged touch attacks (not just rays). Unlike the sometimes proposed Friendly Fire you don't have to have a friend or enemy in range to bounce the deflected spell at, said spells simply fail.

Biffoniacus_Furiou

2020-10-22, 10:05 PM

aglondier

2020-10-23, 01:05 AM

For what it's worth,
Celestial Healing (Fast Healing 1) for 10.5k (8k + 2.5k for material components)
Guardian Mote (effective DR 2/-) for 2k

Zerryzerry

2020-10-23, 05:06 AM

First of all, DMG Table 7-33 is a guideline for DMs to use, it's never ever been a rules source for players to reference. If you want to make a custom magic item, you ask your DM for pricing. The closest thing to RAW is that you use existing item effects to determine the price before that table, and price it based on the effect itself before the spell level calculation.

So an item of Mage Armor that grants a +4 Armor bonus would be priced based on Bracers of Armor at bonus squared x 1,000 gp, not spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp x duration modifier.

Second, per the DMG errata (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/errata), "...the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given. (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#casterLevel)" If an item has Craft Wondrous Item as one of its prerequisites, the item's minimum caster level is 3rd. If it requires Forge Ring to make the item, its minimum caster level is 12th.

So your item of continuous Mage Armor is at a minimum caster level of 3rd, for a price of 6,000 gp if using the spell level calculation instead of the correct pricing calculation.

First of all, you are correct saying that "ask your DM" is the right answer. Still, both me as a DM and my friends when they DM use this formula when making custom items.
Right now i I am designing the equipment for a couple of minibosses, each lvl 9 with 100k of gold in equipment, the 50k limit in cost comes from there.

When talking about Prerequisites and caster level, the DMG lists also Lvl 1 wands (like Magic Missile or CLW), while Craft Wands requirement is "Caster Level 5th".
The interpretation given (at least in our games, and is the rule our crafters use) is that the crafter can lower the power of the item he creates to a CL of his desire, keeping it at the minimum required to cast the spell (1st for 1st-level, 3rd for 2nd-level, thinking full casters).

For what it's worth,
Celestial Healing (Fast Healing 1) for 10.5k (8k + 2.5k for material components)
Guardian Mote (effective DR 2/-) for 2k

Those are PF spells, not D&D. I hate Pathfinder

Zerryzerry

2020-10-23, 06:20 AM

Adding More + recap (and some cost recalculated):

See invisibility for 24k
Scent (sniffing enemies is good) for 24k. Being Ranger 1 could also be lowered to 4k
Silverbeard (+2 AC, Sacred bonus, +2 Diplomacy vs dwarves. Also, longbearded elf mutant). for 6k
Shield of faith (+2 deflection AC) for 6k, a slightly cheaper ring of protection +2
Shield (+4 shield bonus with no maluses, immunity to magic missile) for 6k
Mage Armor (+4 incorporeal touch AC no spell fail/encumbrance) for 2k
Protection from Evil/good/law/chaos (for the mind protection mostly) for 4k
Camouflage (+8 hide for 3k instead of 6.4k, and is Circumstance, so it stacks)
Knight Unburdened (removes speed penalities with medium/heavy armor) for 2k
Arm (an extra useable arm) for 2k
Tail (+1DEX and +4 balance, tumble, climb) for 2k
Initiative (always first in initiative). A bit costly at 48k, but the effect is worth a lot
Good luck (when rolling a dice, always roll twice and use the best result) Still 48k, but basically gamebreaking
Spell haste (cast twice each round. Second spell is cast as a move action) For 24k, is still gamebreaking
Eyes of the Avoral (+8 RACIAL bonus to Spot) for 2k
Cloud of Knives (one free ranged attack/round) for 48k
Living Undeath (immunities to Crits and precision dmg) for 36k
Lion's charge (pounce) for 48k, using the Ranger version
Know the Shadows (Partial Hide in Plain sight and +20 to hide) for 36k. Must have Shugenjia in your campaign
Dwarven Constitution (Racial saving throw bonuses of dwarves vs poison, spells and SLAs) for 12k (still Villain handbook)
Feather Footfalls (+10 Move Silently, villain handbook) for 2k
Keen hearing (+10 Listen, villain handbook) for 2k
Reduce Encumbrance (double weight limits, villain handbook) for 2k
Resistance to acid/electricity (immunity to acid or lightning, villain handbook) for 8k

ciopo

2020-10-23, 07:09 AM

Zerryzerry

2020-10-23, 07:35 AM

I'm curious how "modal" spells would get ruled, like heart of water

Heart of water is pretty sweet to make continous if you can count on having both the short and long effects

cloud wings is 12k for +30feet to existing flight speed

There is no precise rule for this, we basically excluded all "expendable" spells like the "hearth of" series or any spell that expires after X uses.

AvatarVecna

2020-10-23, 08:51 AM

I don't have specific spells to suggest, but I do have methods to offer to get spells even cheaper: some classes cast high-level spells at low CLs, and some classes cast spells at lower spell level than is typical. CL lower than it should be is common, and while undesirable in normal games (nobody wants CL 9 for their 9th lvl blasts), it's a godsend for getting cheap buffs via items. Spells that you can snag at lower level than normal are of use in standard play if you happen to be the class in question, but are great for an artificer snagging spells on the cheap. Here's some of the ones I'm aware of from playing around with these mechanics a lot. I'll also give some examples of things they can abuse.

Low Caster Level

Ur-Priest casts off the entire cleric list, and does so where minimum CL is equal to spell level. I'll clarify why later, but this only really matters for 9th lvl spells, which are slightly cheaper to craft when mimicking Ur-Priest casting. Such examples tend to either be more useful in scrolls or are at-will/continuous items that can't be afforded pre-epic, so I won't bother detailing examples here. I don't see much point in discussing how money breaks even harder in epic, because everything breaks harder in epic.

Blighter is in a similar situation to Ur-Priest, except with the Druid list. However, Blighter's CL is Blighter level plus Druid level, and it has Druid 5 as a prereq more or less. So the story here is, a Druid 5 became an ex-druid for some reason, and decided to make it super-complete by going on 5 rebuilding quests (PH2) to turn them into Barbarian levels. This gives them BAB +4, the proper alignment, and they are technically an ex-druid previously capable of casting 5th level spells, so now they can be a Blighter with the same minimum CL shenanigans that Ur-Priest had. Of course, it's more important that you can claim a reasonable scenario as an artificer - you don't wanna actually play a Blighter for multiple reasons, but you especially don't wanna play a Blighter nerfing their caster level for the purpose of cheaper buff items.

"Enhance Wild Shape" lasts 1 hour/level, and enhances a single wild shape usage within that time. You can explicitly be under multiple EWS's at once, but they all have to have separate effects from the list of options (which are: plant wild shape, Ex abilities of the form, Str +2, Dex +2, Con +2). Any druid can see the value in being able At-Will Use-Activated "Enhance Wild Shape" would normally cost 56000 gp, but if crafted by a Blighter as described above (or an artificer aping their casting), it costs 32000 instead. Does it matter that no Blighter has Wild Shape, or that no Blighter be interested in building an item that enhances wild shape? Nope.

Apostle Of Peace has the same thing going on, with minimum CL equal to spell level. It's got its own list, and it's not that big or great a list, but because Apostle Of Peace is anti-violence, the list doesn't have a lot of attacks or debuffs dependent on CL, and has a lot of utility/buffs that would be great if you could get them super-cheap.

At-Will Command Word "End To Strife" is a nice way to shut down combat: for 9 rounds, anybody within 80 ft who makes an attack takes 20d6 damage. SR Yes, but no save. Lethal if you want it to be - sure, no Apostle Of Peace would cast it lethally, but if you're building an item of it, you don't have to use the spell nonlethally. 145800 gp, so hella expensive, but hella useful.

Sublime Chord stacks SC levels with one arcane caster class you previously had of your choice for the purposes of determining CL, but instead of advancing existing casting progression, it gains its own casting progression drawing from the bard/sor/wiz lists...which starts at 4th/5th lvl spells. A build like Bard 9/Wizard 1/Sublime Chord X will have very low minimum CLs for spells of levels 4-9. CL 2 for 4th/5th lvl spells, CL 4 for 6th, CL 6 for 7th, CL 8 for 8th, and CL 10 for 9th. This means if a spell is 9th lvl for both Wizard and Cleric, get it via Cleric (well, Ur-Priest), but especially 4th-7th level Sublime Chord is better than Ur-Priest if both are an option.

"Snowsong" is a Bard 6 spell, and if you build it to be an Invisible Spell it won't even have a visible effect, making it a stealth-debuff for anybody without Truesight. Enemies that are within 30 ft while its going must Will save vs having a 20% chance to fail at casting spells with verbal components. More importantly, the caster and all allies within 30 ft get Cha +4 (morale), attack +4 (morale), melee damage +1d6 (cold), ER 15 (cold), and Fast Healing 1. Normally, buying a continuous item of this spell costs at least 288k, but if crafted by a Sublime Chord (or an artificer faking Sublime Chord casting), you can get it at 72k, a quarter the normal price.

"Assay Spell Resistance" is handy for any caster wanting to pierce SR more frequently. It's a buff on you, that gives +10 CL for beating SR on one opponent in sight. We don't want a command word item, since that would require a standard action instead of the usual swift, so we're looking at Use-Activated here, which is far more flexible on what action it takes to activate the spell. Normally, Use-Activated "Assay Spell Resistance" is gonna run you 56000, which is pretty expensive for a buff that only helps you against one enemy and requires you to spend a swift to get it (even if it's a great buff)...but with Sublime Chord cheese, we can get it for just 16k, which is definitely worth the price.

You could use this to get At-Will Command Word "Teleport" CL 2 for 18k, which might be fine for your purposes (especially when paired with Plane Shift later), but it couldn't bring anybody with you, and would have a max range of 200 miles, and requires a good idea of where you're going, and even then has a chance to randomly screw you over and put you elsewhere. That last part isn't too bad if it's at-will, but the rest of it means that an upgrade might be worthwhile.

At-Will Command Word "Greater Teleport" CL 6 costs 75600 gp, but lets you bring along 2 people, has no range limit, has no chance of failure, and doesn't require you to have more than the barest idea where you're going.

Rainbow Servant lets the character learn and cast spells from the cleric list via arcane classes. When paired with Sublime Chord, this lets you get that super-low CL on 4th-7th level spells.

"Plane Shift" has an effect not dependent on CL (beyond SR for bringing along unwilling creatures), so Sublime Chord/Rainbow Servant 10 nonsense getting it as a 5th lvl spell at minimum CL 2 makes it a mere 18000 for At-Will Command Word access to the multiverse. You'll always appear 5d100 miles away from where you intended to be, but that's where the Greater Teleport shenanigans come into play.

Low Spell Level

Trapsmith is probably the most well-known in this category, getting a number of useful spells at a lower level than usual. In particular...

"Haste" is a lvl 1 spell for Trapsmiths, so you can get perma-Haste for a cool 8000 gp.

Runescarred Berserker gets a handful of very useful buffs at lower spell level than the classes that typically cast them.

The obvious combo here is the classic Clericzilla spell "Divine Power". Continuous Divine Power goes from 224k to 120k, making full BAB affordable pre-epic for any character.

Both

Divine Crusader is in the same situation as Ur-Priest, except Divine Crusader gets to cast from a single domain. Some domains get access to some spells at a lower level than most anybody, and sometimes get access to spells that aren't on the cleric list (which Ur-Priest can't). The ubiquity of domains, and how commonly they access spells cross-class or get spells early, and their CL shenanigans, make Divine Crusader casting able to take advantage of some of the holes left behind by a Sublime Chord/Rainbow Servant set-up.

A couple final notes:

1) Getting a spell at a lower spell level is always worthwhile, but not every spell will be useful at the lowest CL you can get it. Would you pay 43200 gp for at-will Command Word "Disintegrate" at CL 4? An 8d6 Disintegrate is honestly probably more useful as utility (destroying unattended objects and 10x10x10 blocks of material) than anything else - by the time you can afford to drop 40k on at-will attacks for a caster, 8d6 that requires a ranged touch attack, an roll vs SR, and grants a save probably isn't going to be super-effective. People only consider Disintegrate for the huge single-target damage, since most high-level spells tend towards AoEs instead.

2) This list isn't meant to be exhaustive, especially in regards to example spells. Basically any class that has its own casting that isn't one of the big four core casters probably has early spell access or CL shenanigans, especially if its a prestige class. But this also goes true for base classes, even in the Player's Handbook - Ranger gets Resist Energy as a 1st lvl spell, that halves the cost of ER items right there.

Here is a list of every class that has its own casting progression. (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=8768.0) If I didn't mention it here, give it a glance. Some of them might have lower CL than normal for the levels they cast; some might cast from their own personal list that gets spell access sooner than normal; some might do both. Heck, I'm fairly certain there's classes out there that'll let you add a divine spell from anywhere to the Wizard list - that's probably worthwhile via SC cheese. IDK all of the classes that might be relevant off the top of my head, so I'm sure there's plenty of examples in that link that I missed here.

3) This is super-cheesy. WBLmancy is already one of the more powerful things you can do in the game. When you see somebody talking about how WBL is what makes Fighter not necessarily 100% useless in a caster party, stuff like this is the reason they're not necessarily completely full of it. Yes, casters can craft natively and so can abuse it more by virtue of getting at least twice as much money to play with, but with casting, it's "no casting vs yes casting", whereas this is "money vs double money", and "money" is still pretty frickin' good if it's being thoroughly abused.

A DM that's willing to let you buy command word/use-activated/continuous items at all is kinda permissive. A DM that's willing to let you design them from scratch, especially on a class with as few crafting restrictions as Artificer, is extremely generous. A DM that's willing to let you use anything I've talked about here, whether to get small spells super-cheap, or to be able to buy big buffs that are otherwise too expensive to get pre-epic, is insane. Don't abuse your DM's goodwill, make sure to talk them through stuff and find out what they're comfortable with - you don't want to focus your entire character around abusing money in all the most absurd ways, only to find out that actually your DM is going to nerf you into nonexistence if you actually try to pull such stunts in-game.

Biffoniacus_Furiou

2020-10-23, 08:54 AM

First of all, you are correct saying that "ask your DM" is the right answer. Still, both me as a DM and my friends when they DM use this formula when making custom items.
Right now i I am designing the equipment for a couple of minibosses, each lvl 9 with 100k of gold in equipment, the 50k limit in cost comes from there.

When talking about Prerequisites and caster level, the DMG lists also Lvl 1 wands (like Magic Missile or CLW), while Craft Wands requirement is "Caster Level 5th".
The interpretation given (at least in our games, and is the rule our crafters use) is that the crafter can lower the power of the item he creates to a CL of his desire, keeping it at the minimum required to cast the spell (1st for 1st-level, 3rd for 2nd-level, thinking full casters).

If you'd clicked my link, you would see what I quoted doesn't apply to wands: "For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given."

Furthermore, none of the published items from prior to the DMG errata had their caster level updated to follow the new rules. Such items use their printed caster level when found as loot, but can have a different caster level when created by PCs.

Giving enemies custom items that are priced based on spell emulation rather than the item's effect or comparable items sets a dangerous precedent.

Boots of Expeditious Retreat is pretty good, 12,000 gp at caster level 3rd, or if you want to ignore the minimum caster level rules it would be 4,000 gp.

Crake

2020-10-23, 09:26 AM

Well True Strike expires after one attack, so cannot be made in a continuos effect.

Well, technically it can be, but it would have to be reactivated after each attack.

Segev

2020-10-23, 10:50 AM

Yeah, mage armor doesn't work as a "continuously-active spell." You have to look to the Bracers of Armor for how that translates into a magic item. True strike has a similar problem with being "use-activated." You have to pay for the insight bonus, not for the spell level/caster level.

nijineko

2020-10-23, 07:58 PM

aglondier

2020-10-23, 08:07 PM

Wouldn't a continuous true strike effect simply grant it's effect once per round?

In one campaign we created a Circlet of True Strike that had a 10% chance of activating each time you attacked, providing its usual +20 insight bonus to hit for that attack. Wasn't too unbalancing, but higher percentages got a little silly.

sreservoir

2020-10-23, 10:30 PM

Favor of the Martyr is pretty good, but 128k is too much. Good Luck is more helpful for less then half the cost.

Favor of the Martyr grants you immunity even to no-save stun/daze effects; it does something completely different and generally harder to achieve. Notably, it nullifies the drawback of the celerity line. It is not necessarily as generally useful as rerolling everything, but it situationally does a lot.

Those are PF spells, not D&D. I hate Pathfinder

Compare lesser vigor (SpC 229) for FH 1, and invest light protection (PH2 115) for DR 1/evil.

Biffoniacus_Furiou

2020-10-24, 01:15 AM

Favor of the Martyr is 112,000 gp (4th level spell x minimum caster level 7th at Paladin 14 or Archivist 7 x 2,000 gp x 2 for one minute/level), not much better than 128k but still better.

What about psionic powers? An at-will item that activates Temporal Acceleration (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/temporalAcceleration.htm) augmented to 15 powerpoints for 2 rounds of apparent time would be 180,000 gp, and every round you could spend a swift action to get two entire rounds worth of action (including two more swift actions).

A use-activated weapon that triggers a spell whenever the weapon successfully hits can be neat. A psionic crystal (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/specialMaterials.htm) +1 Shortsword that looks like an icicle and casts Flesh to Ice on any creature it hits would be 92,310 gp. A +1 Whip that casts Fell Frighten Sonic Snap twice on anyone hit would be 26,301 gp and automatically makes the creature frightened for ten rounds if it's not resistant or immune to sonic damage.

Troacctid

2020-10-24, 02:04 PM

A use-activated weapon that triggers a spell whenever the weapon successfully hits can be neat. A psionic crystal (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/specialMaterials.htm) +1 Shortsword that looks like an icicle and casts Flesh to Ice on any creature it hits would be 92,310 gp. A +1 Whip that casts Fell Frighten Sonic Snap twice on anyone hit would be 26,301 gp and automatically makes the creature frightened for ten rounds if it's not resistant or immune to sonic damage.
That's not correct—they would both be Epic items, because when you reduce their casting time, you have to calculate their cost as per the quickened version of the spell (or, in the latter case, quickened and twinned, and the fear wouldn't stack because it's from the same source).

Remember:

Activating a magic item is a standard action unless the item description indicates otherwise. However, the casting time of a spell is the time required to activate the same power in an item, regardless of the type of magic item, unless the item description specifically states otherwise.
If you don't construct the item with the quickened version of the spell, the activation time will be a standard action. Since metamagic spells in items use the adjusted spell level you're looking at a 9th-level spell for quickened flesh to ice and an 11th-level spell for quickened twinned fell frighten sonic snap. (Since twinning it doesn't do much, of course, it would make more sense to leave off the twinning and just make it as a 7th-level spell.)

Personally, I'd just use a spell-storing weapon, but that's me.

Drelua

2020-10-24, 02:52 PM

I have played in games where the GM let us make custom magic items with those formulas, and let us use the rule that magic items can be combines if you pay 150% of the cost of all but the most expensive. The formulas are risky, there's ways to make some OP items, but for that sort of campaign it worked. The second rule though, combining items, makes things more fun IMO. There's lots of neat items I've passed on because they're cloaks, and I need a cloak of resistance, or they're belts, and I need a STR belt. Being able to take fun little things without sacrificing an essential, basic item that just gives +x to saves or whatever makes for more interesting equipment choices.

Protection from Evil, as has been said, is kinda too good for the price.
Boots of Haste would be, what, 120k? 3 x 5 x 2000 x 4. At high levels, I'd honestly consider that for a combat character, if you have a crafter in the party it's probably worth it for the move speed and the attack. Make those for everybody, and who needs horses!
Enlarge Person would be 1 x 3 (minimum CL for craft wondrous) x 2000 x 3, so 18k? Worth it for the reach alone.
Mind Blank would be CL 15, 24 hour duration so half. 15 x 8 x 2000 / 2 = 120k? I'd do it if the barbarian has a real low will save and someone has craft ring. Block dominate, calm emotions, hold, and a bunch of other things that can either remove the barbarian or turn them on the party.

Biffoniacus_Furiou

2020-10-24, 03:21 PM

That's not correct—they would both be Epic items, because when you reduce their casting time, you have to calculate their cost as per the quickened version of the spell (or, in the latter case, quickened and twinned, and the fear wouldn't stack because it's from the same source).

Remember:

If you don't construct the item with the quickened version of the spell, the activation time will be a standard action. Since metamagic spells in items use the adjusted spell level you're looking at a 9th-level spell for quickened flesh to ice and an 11th-level spell for quickened twinned fell frighten sonic snap. (Since twinning it doesn't do much, of course, it would make more sense to leave off the twinning and just make it as a 7th-level spell.)

Personally, I'd just use a spell-storing weapon, but that's me.

Then make it a standard action to activate the item, which includes making an attack with the weapon, which only serves to weaken it as you're now relying on a normal melee attack to deliver a spell that would otherwise not need any attack roll at all. Problem solved, it can stay at the price I suggested.

Troacctid

2020-10-24, 03:31 PM

Then make it a standard action to activate the item, which includes making an attack with the weapon, which only serves to weaken it as you're now relying on a normal melee attack to deliver a spell that would otherwise not need any attack roll at all. Problem solved, it can stay at the price I suggested.
Then it doesn't fit into the formula anymore, since it has an additional custom effect on top of the spell. At that point, the DM just has to eyeball the price; it's a true homebrew. Personally, I would put the icicle effect at a +3 or +4 bonus equivalent, depending on the DC. Auto-shaken sounds like a +4 or +5 equivalent; if you make it so it doesn't stack with other fear effects, it could be cheaper.

Pinkie Pyro

2020-10-24, 05:59 PM

[item] of swift invisibility is continuous invisibility for 8k.

As for spells that have an odd duration clause like true strike, I've ruled them as that the effect, once activated, is continous until expended. IE: activate true strike item, you get a +20 on your first attack made afterwards regardless of time elapsed, but then you have to activate it again.

also, hunter's mercy.

sreservoir

2020-10-24, 06:48 PM

Protection from Evil, as has been said, is kinda too good for the price.

8k gp puts it as appropriate level ~11 treasure. At that level, a single casting of magic circle against winged fliers lasts nearly two hours.

Boots of Haste would be, what, 120k? 3 x 5 x 2000 x 4. At high levels, I'd honestly consider that for a combat character, if you have a crafter in the party it's probably worth it for the move speed and the attack. Make those for everybody, and who needs horses!

At that price, you you could get ten pair of boots of speed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#bootsofSpeed) and swap them out between encounters.

Mind Blank would be CL 15, 24 hour duration so half. 15 x 8 x 2000 / 2 = 120k? I'd do it if the barbarian has a real low will save and someone has craft ring. Block dominate, calm emotions, hold, and a bunch of other things that can either remove the barbarian or turn them on the party.

If you can tolerate dispels, you might be better off with a command-word version that you share with the whole party.

the_tick_rules

2020-10-24, 06:56 PM

true seeing is great. 180k but it's a great effect.

sheltered vitality is amazing. 112k but immunity to fatigue, exhaustion, and all ability drain and damage is stellar.

Drelua

2020-10-24, 07:06 PM

8k gp puts it as appropriate level ~11 treasure. At that level, a single casting of magic circle against winged fliers lasts nearly two hours.

True, it's certainly not broken. Just a very useful effect for a good price, maybe I should have said almost too good. I'd allow it if a player wanted to make it, not OP just well worth it.

At that price, you you could get ten pair of boots of speed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#bootsofSpeed) and swap them out between encounters.

Good point, 2 or 3 pairs should be plenty for a day, maybe more if you do long dungeon crawls, but still less than 10. And it's not like storage space is any concern by the time you're thinking of spending this kind of money, so definitely not worth a constant item compared to this price. Unless you just really want a better overland travel speed for some reason. There's tonnes of better ways to travel though.

nijineko

2020-10-26, 08:56 AM

Then it doesn't fit into the formula anymore, since it has an additional custom effect on top of the spell. At that point, the DM just has to eyeball the price; it's a true homebrew. Personally, I would put the icicle effect at a +3 or +4 bonus equivalent, depending on the DC. Auto-shaken sounds like a +4 or +5 equivalent; if you make it so it doesn't stack with other fear effects, it could be cheaper.

Technically speaking, anything made (correctly) by the magic item creation rules CANNOT be homebrew, since it was made by official rules specifically designed to extrapolate thousands of possible combinations.

Whenever you do something outside of the official rules, THEN it becomes homebrew.

Segev

2020-10-26, 09:03 AM

Technically speaking, anything made (correctly) by the magic item creation rules CANNOT be homebrew, since it was made by official rules specifically designed to extrapolate thousands of possible combinations.

Whenever you do something outside of the official rules, THEN it becomes homebrew.
Technically speaking, the magic item creation rules are explicitly just guidelines for the DM to use to judge a probably-fair price for a given item. We tend to treat them as more hard and fast than they really are.

bean illus

2020-10-26, 12:07 PM

Have these been considered?

Anticipate Teleportation, SC: Wiz 3, 24 hrs = 15k.

A perfect candidate for continuous item. It's not a per bonus item, handy and available throughout most of the campaign, cheap and useful.

Chain of Eyes, SC: Wiz 2, 1 hr/level = 12k

(Needs a dm to ok a reset mechanism. Perhaps 1/day, until the save is defeated/etc).

Crake

2020-10-26, 03:11 PM

Technically speaking, the magic item creation rules are explicitly just guidelines for the DM to use to judge a probably-fair price for a given item. We tend to treat them as more hard and fast than they really are.

Ya, for sure. Any time I recommend a custom item, I always preface it with "assuming your GM allows it this is an option". I mean, there's probably a few times where I haven't explicitly said that, but the custom item creation rules are for sure guidelines and far and away not hard and fast rules.

Troacctid

2020-10-26, 03:48 PM

Technically speaking, anything made (correctly) by the magic item creation rules CANNOT be homebrew, since it was made by official rules specifically designed to extrapolate thousands of possible combinations.

Whenever you do something outside of the official rules, THEN it becomes homebrew.
Custom magic items made with the suggested formulas are Lesser Homebrews, and custom magic items outside of those guidelines are True Homebrews. Biffoniacus_Furiou's suggested weapons are True Homebrews since they don't adhere to the guidelines. Don't get me started on homebrew-wrought kobolds.

sreservoir

2020-10-26, 07:48 PM

Anticipate Teleportation, SC: Wiz 3, 24 hrs = 15k.

Anticipate Teleportation is much less useful than it sounds due to its area: 5-ft./level radius emanation. It'll catch a lot of tactical teleportation, sure, but it needs line of effect to the destination and also the range is short enough that someone can just teleport in with a firing squad.

Also, it might not affect someone using a tower shield for total cover...

Bphill561

2020-10-26, 11:00 PM

How about a set of gloves with Weapon shift and Weildskill? Both have a minute/level duration, so 5,000k total with the 50% bump on a second ability. As use activated you are proficient with any weapon you hold and you can shift it to another melee weapon of choice. Just out of luck on double weapons, but it could make random weapon treasure finds more interesting.

Cloak of Dark power from the Drow domain. 2,000gp to eliminate daylight sensitivity. Might as well add invisible spell so the haze around you is not visible to everyone.

Undersong on a Bard for 3k to always use performance instead of concentration.

Inner Beauty is fun on the right Sublime chord build, but you have to duck flying books from the DM. Let's say caster level 2 for 24,000k for +4 sacred bonus to Dex and Cha. Someone mentioned the same trick with snowsong above.