(D20M/D&D 3.5) Modern Military vs D&D Play Thread, Match 1.

[Tyndmyr]

This is the gameplay thread for the recruitment thread found at https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?620225-(D20M-D-amp-D-3-5)-Modern-Military-vs-D-amp-D&p=24765507#post24765507

The participants are Edreyn(modern combat squad) vs Palanan(Team Faerun). Once both participants are ready, I'll roll up weather, area, and starting distance.

OOC thread: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?621646-(D20M-D-amp-D-3-5)-Modern-Military-vs-D-amp-D-OOC-Thread&p=24785778#post24785778
Recruitment thread: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?620225-(D20M-D-amp-D-3-5)-Modern-Military-vs-D-amp-D

[Tyndmyr]

Terrain Type: [roll0]
1. Urban.
2. Forest.
3. Grassland.
4. Cavern.
5. Desert.
6. Arctic.

Weather: [roll1]
1. Sunny and clear.
2. Partially cloudy.
3. Overcast.
4. Occasional precipitation.
5. Constant, light precipitation.
6. Heavy downpour.

Approximate time of day: Early Afternoon

[Tyndmyr]

Both parties, roll initiative.

Edreyn(modern combat squad):

Snow drifts lightly around you, somewhat obscuring long range view(-2 to spot checks), and slowly filling in the tracks you leave in the crunchy, solid layer of snow on the ground as you pass. The weather is cool, but in the afternoon weather, not unbearable. There has not been a great deal of wildlife, though you have seen occasional small creatures. The landscape is dotted with craggy rocks and twisted, windblown trees, their banches bowed under heavy loads of snow. Occasional drifts appear near large terrain features, appearing difficult to navigate.

Command isn't certain what threat lies here, but you have been advised of the disappearance of a previous patrol and to be wary of possible dangers. Rules of Engagement are accordingly at your discretion.

(please specify squad layout of folks for your starting position)


Palanan(Team Faerun):

Snow drifts lightly around you, somewhat obscuring long range view(-2 to spot checks), and slowly filling in the tracks you leave in the crunchy, solid layer of snow on the ground as you pass. The weather is cool, but in the afternoon weather, not unbearable. There has not been a great deal of wildlife, though you have seen occasional small creatures. The landscape is dotted with craggy rocks and twisted, windblown trees, their banches bowed under heavy loads of snow. Occasional drifts appear near large terrain features, appearing difficult to navigate.

You encountered an arctic hare about five minutes ago, which described a team of five men dressed in snow trudging along in this general direction. They are described as carrying black sticks, and the hare quickly bounded away from them. You've heard that the last time a patrol came this way, there was a bloody fight of some sort, and the Captain in charge has made it clear that bodies are a perfectly acceptable thing to bring back as evidence, if you so choose.

(please specify squad layout of folks for your starting position)

[Palanan]

Initiative for Team Faerûn:

Jevicca: [roll0]
Mott: [roll1]
Foerth: [roll2]
Wentu: [roll3]
Il Rob: [roll4]


Disposition of Team Faerûn:

Wentu is already in wild shape, flying as a snowy owl at approximately 400’ altitude, about 200’ ahead of the others. Wentu already has Barkskin cast on himself, raising his AC to 19, and it’ll be DM’s discretion as to whether being a snowy owl in a light snowfall grants any camouflage benefit. If he can’t see anything clearly from 400’, he’ll glide in a broad curve down to about 200’ altitude.

On the snowy ground, Foerth and his yzobu companion are taking point, fifty feet ahead of the others and an equal distance to their left. (This is necessary because of the yzobu’s stench ability, and Foerth is never companionable to begin with.) Foerth has already cast Longstrider on himself, and has an arrow nocked and ready. Since forests are his favored terrain, he is applying his +2 favored terrain bonus to his Initiative and Perception checks.

Il Rob is fifty feet behind Foerth and fifty feet to Foerth’s right; as the heaviest of the group, Il Rob is making a path through the snow for the benefit of Jevicca and Mott. They are walking side-by-side, ten feet behind Il Rob. Mott is carrying Jevicca’s crossbow and five of her tanglebolts, and Jevicca has already accepted a potion of invisibility from Wentu before he went aloft. Mott has already cast Shield on himself, raising his AC to 23, and he has a tanglebolt in Jevicca’s loaded crossbow.

Jevicca’s animal companion, the roc Arundel, is on the ground ten feet behind her, waddling along at the same speed as Jevicca and Il Rob (20 ft.). By necessity Mott is walking slowly at the same pace, while Foerth is moving at the same pace out of caution.

All five of them (plus two animal companions) have senses alert for any motion or sound.

Perception:

Jevicca: [roll5]
Mott: [roll6]
Foerth: [roll7]
Wentu: [roll8]
Il Rob: [roll9]
Yzobu: [roll10]
Arundel: [roll11]


Terrain Questions:

How large are the craggy rocks, and how tall and dense are the snowbound trees?

Also, how deep is the snow?

Addendum:

Prearranged Signals:

If Wentu sees something but doesn’t feel he’s been seen, he will give several low hoots, which will tell the others to proceed with stealth. If Wentu is under attack, he’ll give a high shriek, which will tell the others to prepare for immediate combat.

For his part, if Foerth sees something, he’ll give a low thrumming in imitation of a grouse, indicating the others should come by stealth. If he’s engaged, “You’ll know it when you hear my bowstring.”

[Edreyn]

Initiative for invaders:


Scope: [roll0]
Spider: [roll1]
Len: [roll2]
Maddog: [roll3]
Conrad: [roll4]


Disposition:


Not fully sure what goes here, but if I understand correctly:

Scope tries to find a tree suitable for using as "nest". The position should be as high as possible, but still allowing to reach it and sit there without too much problem. If she can start already after climbing there, she does it.
Spider and Len start below her, but not exactly under the tree, but about 10 feet from the tree, at opposite sides (2 squares from tree). They start entrenched\prepare to entrench by digging underneath.
Conrad tries to find "chokepoints" at the vicinity, identify places which grant most easy access to position of the squad. Starts at one of those places, not less then 30 feet, not more then 60, the one closest to the starting tree. He sets one of Semtex landmines\prepares to do it.
Maddog is near Conrad, guarding him.


Roleplaying briefing:


Len gives final orders.

So, boys and girls we are finally here. Remember what the commander said - one of our scout teams was already lost. We don't know what to expect, so here's what we do: if we see anyone armed, no matter with what, or a creature that looks dangerous, we attack on sight. Only after we deal with everyone who can be dangerous, we can search from someone still alive to take him prisoner.


Closed question to the DM:
How will Semtex charges work at the end?
As proximity mines that explode when stepping on them?
Or I can use detonator to trigger them from a far? Will I need detcord in this case?

Best for me, if they can be detonated from a far, each on his own, with radio signal, without needing to tie them with detcord.


If you wish, you can drop the detcord and assume standard detonators are available on each block of semtex, and have both weapons.
Yeah, let's go for it.


Another closed question to the DM:
Are trees leafless or evergreen?

Will we get a map?

[Tyndmyr]

Responding to rest later, but for now, here's the map.

Edit: Map updated for larger, uniformly black font.

Not sure if the image is just not showing on my computer, or if there's a forum restriction on them, so here's the direct link as well: Arctic Map (https://pasteboard.co/JxyBQH9.jpg)

https://pasteboard.co/JxyBQH9.jpg

[Palanan]

Okay, thanks for the map. On the top row, I'm not able to see most of the white-text numbers between 1 and 30, so it's a little difficult to work out which row is which on the left side of the map. This might be a little challenging if we're receiving coordinates, i.e. "bogey at C22," etc.

[Edreyn]

Okay, thanks for the map. On the top row, I'm not able to see most of the white-text numbers between 1 and 30, so it's a little difficult to work out which row is which on the left side of the map. This might be a little challenging if we're receiving coordinates, i.e. "bogey at C22," etc.

Same here. Maybe you can make labels full black and bold, maybe with larger font?

[Tyndmyr]

Same here. Maybe you can make labels full black and bold, maybe with larger font?

Yeah, I can play with the font settings. I started out with white, but ended up swapping for visibility part way through.

For the purpose of clarity, the water counts as level terrain, as it is frozen sufficiently that a man can definitely walk on it with no difficulty, though detonations of fireballs or explosives may cause it to be less walkable.

Answers to questions:
Palanin:

Your top four characters in init order act first. You can of course delay initiative if desired.

Starting position for lead character: FF4, comng from left side of map(other characters accordingly distant)

The owl gets a +2 camoflage bonus in addition to the +2 circumstance bonus from snow.

The rocks vary in height, reaching approximately 20 feet high at the peaks, and sloping to approximately ten feet high near the edges.
The trees reach a height of approximately 40 feet, and while the trees are evergreen, and thus still provide some cover, they are spread apart.
The snow is approximately two feet deep of old, hardened snow that is quite solid, with a dusting of fresh snow over the top. This does not hinder walking, but tracks do remain for a while before the snow fills them in.


Edreyn

Palanin has top init and is starting off.

If you wish, you can preroll spot/etc checks for each character, which I'll use to note when you first become aware of each other.

Starting position for lead character: M50, coming from right side of map(other characters accordingly distant at your discretion)

How will Semtex charges work at the end? You can set a timer as a standard action(or set and throw as a full round action) specifying when it will detonate. This can range from "at end of round" to "at end of round, twenty rounds from now" in one round increments. When the time elapses, you get a blast(I need to double check the specific blast radius, but I believe it was substantial) You can also attempt to use it in other fashions, such as trip-wires or pressure plates, which will function as traps. Specify the square the explosives are in, as well as where the trip-line is, if one is used. This will be treated similarly to a trap, with spot/disable device checks being allowed if noticed. You can also manually trip the trip-line yourself, allowing remote detonation, though the placing character will have to secure the explosives in place for trip lines to work. There's no need to secure the trip line yourself if you want to just trigger it by tugging remotely.

Note that using a full block of Semtex on a tree is guaranteed to result in the absence of a tree.

The rocks vary in height, reaching approximately 20 feet high at the peaks, and sloping to approximately ten feet high near the edges.
The trees reach a height of approximately 40 feet, and while the trees are evergreen, and thus still provide some cover, they are spread apart.

[Palanan]

Questions for Tyndmyr:


Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Your top four characters in init order act first. You can of course delay initiative if desired.

Starting position for lead character: FF4, comng from left side of map(other characters accordingly distant)

Okay, with Wentu flying at FF4, approx. 400', does his Perception check of 17 show him anything? (Perception = Spot check, and the 17 takes into account the -2 from the light snowfall.)

Also, are we starting a combat round? Just to be certain that we're in Round 1.


Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
For the purpose of clarity, the water counts as level terrain, as it is frozen sufficiently that a man can definitely walk on it with no difficulty....

So, on the battlemap, there seems to be a roughly diamond-shaped ring of frozen water around the central rock outcropping.

I know that in practical terms, you've mirrored the original map to create a larger space, but is there anything unusual in-game about the frozen water or the outcropping?

[Edreyn]

From me:


What I do: All characters are using Spot and Listen until notice someone.

Questions:
1) Are those lines at the sides of the central island actually bridges?
2) Can flamethrower melt the ice? And what about 40mm grenades\frag grenades\semtex charges?
3) Do I know\can guess how deep it the water under the ice?
4) Still don't fully understand about semtex. Can I place them under the snow, then detonate from a far, for example?
5) Please give exact cells where chars are.


Update with another question:

I still didn't add action points to charsheets. I just can't understand how they are calculated. Should I take the sum like with BAB and saves?


Action Points: Fast heroes gain a number of action points equal to 5 + one-half their character level, rounded down, at 1st level and every time they attain a new level in this class.


Action Points: 6 + one-half character level, rounded down, every time the infiltrator attains a new level in this class.

So, for example: if Scope is Fast 3\Infiltrator 2 it should be:
(5+1) + (6+1) =13

Or only the highest one which is 7?

Or it's added EVERY level:

(5 + 0) + (5+1) + (5+1) + (6+0) + (6+1) = 29?

I think that it's 13, but want to make sure.

[Palanan]

Rules questions for the DM:

If Wentu is invisible, and he casts Summon Nature’s Ally, does this count as an attack for the purpose of ending the invisibility effect?

Also, since casting SNA is a full-round action, do you rule that the animal appears at the end of that turn (and thus can act in the same turn the spell is cast) or the beginning of the caster’s next turn?

[Tyndmyr]

Palanan

>Okay, with Wentu flying at FF4, approx. 400', does his Perception check of 17 show him anything? (Perception = Spot check, and the 17 takes into account the -2 from the light snowfall.)
No enemies visible as of yet, though Wentu does have a pretty good view of the terrain.

>Also, are we starting a combat round? Just to be certain that we're in Round 1.
That's correct, just gonna keep it in combat rounds the entire time for clarity.

>If Wentu is invisible, and he casts Summon NatureÂ’s Ally, does this count as an attack for the purpose of ending the invisibility effect?
Summoning does not count as an attack. The summoned creature, however, is not invisible.

>Also, since casting SNA is a full-round action, do you rule that the animal appears at the end of that turn (and thus can act in the same turn the spell is cast) or the beginning of the casterÂ’s next turn?[
Beginning of the caster's next turn.

Nothing in particular appears off about the water, it merely appears to be a frozen pond that is fairly shallow. There is probably room for a person under the ice in the frigid water if work was put into it, but that would be very dangerous.





Edreyn

>1) Are those lines at the sides of the central island actually bridges?
Negative, just natural terrain, though you can walk on the frozen water just fine.
>2) Can flamethrower melt the ice? And what about 40mm grenades\frag grenades\semtex charges?
Most certainly. A round spent melting ice will get approximately an inch(there may be specific hardness rules that you are also welcome to look up, but this is a decent approximation)
Grenades used on the ice will generally create a hole on the 5ft square that they are detonated on.
Semtex charges will create a significantly larger hole.
3) Do I know\can guess how deep it the water under the ice?
Eyeballing from the size of the area, you estimate maybe five feet of water beneath the ice, though it would be cold and likely harmful to swim in for any length of time.
4) Still don't fully understand about semtex. Can I place them under the snow, then detonate from a far, for example?
Certainly! You can assume detonation from within a range of fifty feet if used in that manner.

Locations: Your lead character is on M50, with the remainder of the party nearby(to the right of this point within perhaps ten squares or so), distributed as you wish. Any of the trees are large enough to climb, and have limbs large enough to support you if you choose to snipe from there. Is that sufficient?

>I still didn't add action points to charsheets. I just can't understand how they are calculated. Should I take the sum like with BAB and saves?
It's a cumulative total, added every level. This can be quite a few, yes. Your last example appears accurate.

[Palanan]

Continuing:

Okay, the remaining members of the group will have their senses on alert, especially Foerth and his yzobu. Here’s their Perception rolls from a little earlier, adjusted for the light snow:

Jevicca: [16]
Mott: [23]
Foerth: [18]
Il Rob: [0]
Yzobu: [26]
Arundel: [7]

[Edreyn]

Can\Should I write where chars are positioned exactly?

Except this, I guess I am now waiting for my move?

[Palanan]

Would it be feasible for the three of us to work out a time when we can all be online together?

That way we would be able to move at a more engaging pace. Right now it's been a week since we rolled initiative and we're still somewhere in the first round. I know everyone has work, life, etc., but I would personally find it more fun if we could be online together and interact closer to realtime.

[Edreyn]

What are your time zones? Mine is GMT +2, current time is 15:31.

[Palanan]

Tyndmyr and I are both in the same time zone, currently 9:37 am.

[Edreyn]

Well, I can post almost any time, except when sleeping, no problem to post from work.
I think it's Tyndmyr the one who has problems with posting.

[Palanan]

I would say "constraints" rather than "problems," but posting has certainly been more delayed than I was hoping for.

I'll send him an email and see what we can do.

[Tyndmyr]

I would say "constraints" rather than "problems," but posting has certainly been more delayed than I was hoping for.

I'll send him an email and see what we can do.

Mon, Tue, and Thurs after work(home by about 6-7 EST most days) would work. As of right now, we're waiting on Palanan's first actions, as he had highest initiative.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Mon, Tue, and Thurs after work(home by about 6-7 EST most days) would work.

I can be available any of these times next week, though that might be on the late side for Edreyn.


Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
As of right now, we're waiting on Palanan's first actions, as he had highest initiative.

I posted these a couple of days ago, but I’ll recopy them here.

Wentu is flying approx. 200’ ahead of the rest of the group, and I’d asked earlier:


Okay, with Wentu flying at FF4, approx. 400', does his Perception check of 17 show him anything? (Perception = Spot check, and the 17 takes into account the -2 from the light snowfall.)

DM responded:


No enemies visible as of yet, though Wentu does have a pretty good view of the terrain.

So, I’m assuming that’s Wentu’s turn, unless there’s something else he can do, or something else he notices.



As for the others, since they're 200’ to the west of Wentu, I’m assuming all they can do is keep moving after him in the formation I described earlier (thus moving east) while keeping their eyes and ears on full alert.

From Wednesday:


Okay, the remaining members of the group will have their senses on alert, especially Foerth and his yzobu. Here’s their Perception rolls from a little earlier, adjusted for the light snow:

Jevicca: [16]
Mott: [23]
Foerth: [18]
Il Rob: [0]
Yzobu: [26]
Arundel: [7]

[Edreyn]

Can we go on, or you are waiting for something from me now?

[Tyndmyr]

Ah, thank you, I had taken that as merely a statement of their current position, not their actual move. Can I get grid coordinates for their final positions?

In any case, Edreyn:

Scope and Len are up in the initiative order, go for it!


I'll be available tonight or tomorrow night if ya'll do want to get online at the same time and burn through it. Discord or something if that's easy.

[Edreyn]

Because of slow speed I still haven't fully understood everything, but let's try.

Can join discord channel or any other chat, just link.


Scope: Since I don't know what tree is she using M45 or P48: she finds the tree allowing the highest possible location where she can sit. If she is already there, she stays there, but continues to use Spot and Listen until notices someone. Sitting.

Len: Move to K47. Entrench = dig underneath to hide in snow, about one feet deep. Lying prone.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
I'll be available tonight or tomorrow night if ya'll do want to get online at the same time and burn through it.

I can be online at 6 pm our time tonight, but it'll have to be here on the Playground rather than Discord.

As for coordinates, I'll need to work out Wentu's flight curve and see where he ends up.

However, the rest of the party are 200' to the west, which means they're way off the left edge of the map. I can try to work up a simple side map and send it to you over email by this evening.

[Tyndmyr]

I won't be free until nearly seven EST, but I'll see if we can't burn through a fair bit then.

Edreyn:

Your discretion on which of those trees it is, either is available.


Palanin:

Your init for your final character. Map is totally fine, or an estimate a -(whatever number). You can assume unobstructed travel to the map for the sake of convenience.

[Palanan]

Not sure what you mean about initiative, but here's the list of characters by initiative:

Wentu: [23]
Foerth: [22]
Il Rob: [17]
Jevicca:[17]
Mott: [10]

Usually when I have two or more characters tied for initiative, I have them roll percentile and then rank them according to the percentile results. I can do that for Il Rob and Jevicca, or I can just have them go in alphabetical order (i.e. Il Rob and Jevicca).



UPDATE:

I'm having trouble working with the main map, but I'm estimating that Wentu will end up around square X19. He's on a slanting descent, starting from approx. 400' and gently gliding down amid the snowfall to approx. 200'.

Also, sending you something over email now.

[Tyndmyr]

Palanan:

Apologies, I meant it was your init for the final char, Mott.

As for which of your characters go first on the same initiative, it's up to you. They're on the same team, so either could hold action to go after the other in any case. There are no ties between the opposing teams.
Map looks good for understanding relative positioning, nothing spotted as of yet.


Eredryn:

Feel free to make any moves for the remainder of your team for the first round of init.

[Palanan]

Okay, thanks. Are we waiting on Edreyn now?

[Tyndmyr]

Yup, his move now!

[Edreyn]

The invaders move...

(Since you didn't give exact positions, I am assuming where they can be originally located, according to my first post)
(Also, maybe we can get an OOC thread?)


Scope: On the tree of P48.

Spider: Moves to S51 (under the tree branches), if this is impossible then S50\S49. Entrench 1 feet underneath.

Conrad: Moves to M41 or T49 (closest of those). If impossible, then I need to know his exact place. At the relevant point hide 1 semtex charge under snow, to detonate it remotely later.

Maddog: Depending on Conrad position, if Conrad is at M41, then Maddog moves to to N41. If Conrad at T49, then Maddog moves to S49. Use: Harm's Way to protect Conrad.

[Palanan]

For Tyndmyr:

Just a reminder—as Team Faerûn continues moving ahead, Foerth’s animal companion (an yzobu) is continually exuding its stench, which affects anyone within 30’ and requires a DC 15 Fort save to avoid being sickened.

[Tyndmyr]

Initiative round 2:

Edreyn:

Sounds good, assuming your first choice for each of these, since even the thickest tree truck would definitely not be taking a full 5ft x 5ft square.

Scope: P48
Sniper: S51
Conrad: M41
Maddog: N41

I'm presuming that everyone is attempting to avoid detection, of course. Nothing detected yet.

I'll add an OOC thread and link it to the first post.
Edit: here you go, https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?621646-(D20M-D-amp-D-3-5)-Modern-Military-vs-D-amp-D-OOC-Thread&p=24785778#post24785778


Palanan:

Wentu: X19
Rest(still fairly far left, hit me with coords when they get onto the map proper)

Any Actions for initiative round 2 for your highest four init?

[Palanan]

Wentu is intrigued by the unusual rock formation, so he’ll gently curve around to the south of it, slowly descending to approximately 100’ and ending his turn at DD35, just above a modest tree. He’ll be paying very careful attention to everything around him, looking and listening as he glides silently through the delicate snow.

Perception:

Wentu: [roll0]


Meanwhile, the rest of Team Faerûn continues their slow progress to the east, also staying alert:

Perception:

Jevicca: [roll1]
Mott: [roll2]
Foerth: [roll3]
Il Rob: [roll4]
Yzobu: [roll5]
Arundel: [roll6]

By the time they finish their movement for this round, Foerth should be 160’ from the west edge of the battlemap.

[Tyndmyr]

Palanan:

As Wentu finishes his curving descent, he catches sight of some movement to his northeast. Looks like a vaguely humanoid figure in the top of a tree in P48




Edreyn:

Scope's initiative.


Is it just me, or is the forum being super dodgy tonight?

[Palanan]

The forum's been well-behaved for me, at least. No dodginess at all.

Can Wentu tell how high up in the tree the figure is? Is the figure standing, seated, or prone? And is there anything like the black sticks the arctic hare mentioned?

Also, is the figure all-white to match the snow, or some other color?

[Tyndmyr]

Might just be my internet, then, I tried to post that a bunch of times.

Palanan:

Can Wentu tell how high up in the tree the figure is? Is the figure standing, seated, or prone? And is there anything like the black sticks the arctic hare mentioned?

The figure appears to be wearing mixed white and black clothing in a strange pattern that makes it difficult to discern details, and has a fairly long black stick. The figure appears to be near the trunk, with multiple branches supporting him, approximately twenty feet up(wasn't specifically specified, but an approximation based on movement), in a relatively upright position.

[Palanan]

Sounds like it's your internet, since the Playground has been remarkably smooth for me tonight.

Good detail on the figure, thanks.

Do any of the others see or hear anything? If not, that wraps up for my turn.

[Tyndmyr]

Palanan:


That's it, yeah, the others don't see anything, I'm afraid.

[Edreyn]

Invaders move...


Scope: Ready action, if she detects any humanoid except her own team, attacks with ranged weapon.

[Tyndmyr]

Edreyn:

You can actually just toss up your entire round of moves for this turn of initiative, as Palanan has kindly laid out his teams moves in advance.

If you could toss on perception checks for your team, that'd be appreciated.

[Edreyn]

Rolls:


You mean spot and listen checks?

Here you go:
Spot
Scope: [roll0]
Spider: [roll1]
Len: [roll2]
Conrad: [roll3]
Maddog: [roll4]

Listen
Scope: [roll5]
Spider: [roll6]
Len: [roll7]
Conrad: [roll8]
Maddog: [roll9]


To verify:

Should I post actions for everyone then? Was Conrad successful in placing semtex charge?


And I asked something in OOC thread.

[Tyndmyr]

Edreyn:

Conrad was successful in placing it, and while he can't see anything, there's an extremely faint sound coming from somewhere to the south west, almost like a far off whispering in the air.

You're welcome to do the remainder of your team for this init round, yes, as Palanan pre-specified his actions.

[Edreyn]

Roleplaying



- Conrad to Len. Unsure, but hear some non-natural sounds from sound west of my position. Recommend careful investigation.
- Len to Conrad. Roger that. Len to Team. Assume hostilities in the vicinity, south west of us. Be on your edge. Len to Spider. Move a few paces south, use tree branches for cover. Investigate.
- Spider to Len. Roger. Investigating.
- Len to Team. I am moving west. Prepare to Cover me.



Apologize for errors in advance, sometimes I can mistake with coordinates. Map image is large and confusing. Maybe you can add chars on the map? I giess it will make two sets until we meet.

Move for this turn

Scope: Don't move. Ready action, if she detects any humanoid except her own team, attacks with ranged weapon.
Len: Move to O47. Ready action, attack any non-team member humanoid. If Scope already attacked, and target not dead, attack same target.
Spider: Move to X50. Ready action, attack any non-team member humanoid. If Scope and Len already attacked, and target not dead, attack same target.
Conrad: Move to M36. Entrench 1 feet down.
Maddog: Move to M37. Lie prone without digging (does it counts as free?). If can do another action: bodyguard Conrad.


Move for next turn, if we still don't see each other. But only if we don't see each other, if we do, I'll decide with new information!


Scope: Move to M37, nest on the tree. (I think 2 move actions should suffice)
Len: Move to N37, under the tree.
Spider: Move to Y46. Entrench 1 feet down.
Conrad: Move to O32. Entrench 1 feet down.
Maddog: Move to N32. Lie prone without digging (does it counts as free?). If can do another action: bodyguard Conrad.

[Tyndmyr]

Updating two full maps for every move would probably slow things down. I like the idea of maps for this, but I'm not sure that the forum is particularly well suited to maps. It might work over Roll 20 or something, though. Just spitballing here.

Edreyn:

Sounds good!

You can always drop to prone as a free action, yeah.

Totally get the "if we don't spot each other" option, for sure.

Initiative Round 3:

Palanan, you're up!

(The folks off the map you can just all move at once this round if you'd like)

The humanoid figure Wentu has spotted in the tree doesn't appear to move, but you catch faint flickers of movement lower down. Branches of trees obscure details, but there's definitely something moving near the base.

[Palanan]

Okay, starting from DD35, Wentu will continue his descending curve, ending at approximately X50 and settling into an upper branch of the tree covering that square.

As before, he’s paying extremely close attention both to the trees and the snow below, and when he alights on the upper branch he will turn his head back and forth like an ordinary owl. He’s looking in particular for 1) other occurrences of the strangely patterned black-and-white clothing, and 2) other long black sticks.

Perception:

Wentu: [roll0]


As before, the rest of Team Faerûn continues to the east, looking and listening all around:

Perception:

Jevicca: [roll1]
Mott: [roll2]
Foerth: [roll3]
Il Rob: [roll4]
Yzobu: [roll5]
Arundel: [roll6]

By the time they finish their movement for this round, Foerth should be 120’ from the west edge of the battlemap.

[Tyndmyr]

Palanan:

Edreyn:

No humanoids are sighted, nor do any attacks occur for this round, your move occurs as planned. You do see a Snowy owl soar quietly through the area from a southernly direction. It alights on an upper branch of the tree at X50, and looks around. It doesn't react to any of your actions.

You are certainly welcome to change your actions for next round, of course.



Palanan:
Okay, starting from DD35, Wentu will continue his descending curve, ending at approximately X50 and settling into an upper branch of the tree covering that square. Two more humanoids of similar coloring are visible, one at the base of the tree remaining stationary, holding his long black stick with both hands. Another is visible on the ground, acting similarly, at O47.

The remainder of the round passes without event for the western portion of your team.


Current action: Initiative Round 4, Palanan's 17+ init action(s).

[Palanan]

Okay, I’ve just emailed you a portion of the battlemap with Wentu’s position and the three black-sticks figures that he can see. Please let me know if I have anything incorrect.

If not….

Since the trees are about 40 feet tall, I’m going to assume that Wentu is about 35 feet up.

Wentu will casually do a little preening and ruffling out his feathers, during which he will cast Summon Nature’s Ally II, spending a second-level spell slot. With a range of 35 feet, he will summon a giant spider onto the middle trunk of the tree, just 10’ above the figure at the base of the tree, which I’m guessing is Q47.

Once the spider appears at the start of Round Five, it will launch a web at the figure at O47.



Meanwhile, the rest of Team Faerûn continues moving east, still looking and listening carefully:

Perception:

Jevicca: [roll0]
Mott: [roll1]
Foerth: [roll2]
Il Rob: [roll3]
Yzobu: [roll4]
Arundel: [roll5]

By the time they finish their movement for this round, Foerth should be 80’ from the west edge of the battlemap.


What direction(s) are the three figures facing?

Also, from his current position, can Wentu see any tracks in the snow in this area?

[Tyndmyr]

Palanan:


Checked out map, all looks correct. 35 feet up seems fair.

Do you have any way to conceal or omit the verbal component? All good otherwise, just want to know if the owl's muttering spellcasting stuff.

Weirdly, D&D/D20M don't have any facing mechanism, but for RP purposes, they are generally looking westward, though maintaining good general awareness by glancing around.

There's some disturbed snow down below which probably includes a lot of footsteps, but the distance and the falling snow make detailed tracking hard from this range. You definitely could if you flew near it, though.

Current Action: Edreyn, your chars from Init 16-11.

Edreyen:

In case you want to modify actions based on the owl's appearance. Other than that, nothing spotted or heard.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Do you have any way to conceal or omit the verbal component? All good otherwise, just want to know if the owl's muttering spellcasting stuff.

Natural Spell allows for substituting different noises for the ordinary verbal component, which I’ve always assumed would be vocalizations appropriate to whatever form you’re in. In this case I’m assuming that Wentu will be using soft hoots and trills of the sort that a snowy owl would make, pitched as quietly as possible.

He’s doing this together with preening and ruffling his feathers, to give the general impression of an owl settling itself on a perch.

Can Wentu see their faces, or are their faces covered with anything?

[Edreyn]

Roleplaying



- Spider to Len. Commander there is a weird bird right above me. A polar owl or something. Shows no reaction to us, which is weird. Possibly it has never seen humans. Also, owls usually sleep during day hours, and it makes it even more weird. In our situation can be a minor danger, like it can mistake my head for a hare or something. Recommend and request neutralizing it.
- Len to Spider. Roger that Spider. Advance to your next position, and I'll neutralize the animal myself.

Movement

Len make one move action then shoots the owl. Everything else is same.

Scope: Move to M37, nest on the tree. (I think 2 move actions should suffice)
Len: Move to T50, shoot the owl.
Spider: Move to Y46. Entrench 1 feet down.
Conrad: Move to O32. Entrench 1 feet down.
Maddog: Move to N32. Lie prone without digging. If can do another action: bodyguard Conrad.

[Tyndmyr]

Edreyn

Go ahead and make attack and damage rolls vs the owl.

[Edreyn]

Update


Sorry, I keep forgetting that we do our own rolls. :smallfrown:

Len shoots Snowy Owl

Attack roll:
[roll0]
Not a natural 20, so no critical.

If we use this owl:
https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/owl.htm

Then it has Armor Class = 17, it's a hit.

Damage roll:
Steyr 2d8
Sorry, had to put it in next message, not fully used to rolling system here, I thought I can first roll attack, then edit message to roll damage.
But had to make another one.

[Edreyn]

Damage roll
[roll0]

Overkill for poor birdie.

[Tyndmyr]

Edreyn:


The birdie tried to quickly mutter something in some strange tongue, but it doesn't make much sense, and it doesn't seem as if anything came of it. Despite the spray of feathers and blood from a clear hit, the owl seems to be somehow still alive. It doesn't take a nature check to realize that there is something very off about this owl.

Everyone on your team of course hears the gunshot and is immediately aware of the attack, and will not be taken unawares by further oddities.




Palanan:


There's some quiet muttering, followed by the humanoid atop the tree pivoting the long black stick at Wentu, and belching fire. (attack roll was 20, which I believe hits Wentu's AC, 14 damage). The sound it makes is quite loud, sounding like a thunderclap, and it is immediately audible to all, even those still running to the location.

If you wish to continue casting Summon Monster, make a concentration check.

[Edreyn]

Roleplaying

I guess English and Common are different languages, so the opponents can't understand us, so I am posting it in spoiler.


- What the &*^%#$@ hell is this?! - screamed Len, - I shot it, how come it's still alive?! Everyone, be on your edge! Owls seem to be sturdy as bears here! It's unnatural guys, kill it!


Now Palanan's move I guess.

[Palanan]

Seems a little strange that the invaders would give away their position just to attack random wildlife.

Concentration check:

Wentu: [roll0]

According to Pathfinder rules the DC is 26, so that’s a hard fail and the spell is lost.

Let me know when it’s Team Faerûn’s turn.

A sudden sharp thunderclap rings through the trees from somewhere close ahead.

Jevicca gives Mott a suddenly worried glance. “That wasn’t one of Wentu’s,” she whispers. “We’ve found them. Cover me now.”

1. Can Wentu see their faces, or are their faces covered with anything?

2. With his Perception of 31, can Foerth see where the thunderclap came from?

[Tyndmyr]

Clarification: For the purposes of clarity, I'm treating English and Common as different languages, but somewhat understandable if time is taken to intentionally attempt communication, as per charades or the like. Probably not *super* relevant to this fight, but figured I should toss it out there. I'm certainly open to discussing other takes if ya'll want.

Palanan, you're up.

Palanan:


Your team's turn.

Q1: Wentu can see their lower faces, though they have a half-helm covering the top, sides and back of their heads.
Q2: The line of sight isn't perfectly clear due to trees and rocks, but the sound is quite loud, so he can locate it to within ten feet.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
For the purposes of clarity, I'm treating English and Common as different languages….

Very much agreed. If we’re in the region of Silverymoon, the local common tongue is Chondathan, which would be an entirely different language from English.

Wentu casts Fog Cloud on the base of the tree, centered at P47, and then flies into the cover of the tree to his immediate southeast, ending with a perch on the far side of the tree in the densest part of the canopy, at AA57. If possible he will also look around from his new perch for any other invaders:

Perception:
Wentu: 1d20+13

The fog cloud billows out in a 20’ radius around that point, so it should swallow the two invaders at O47 and Q47.

Foerth is casting Gravity Bow and moving forward, ending his turn 40’ from the western edge of the map. He is focusing his senses on the direction of the thunderclap.

Perception:
Foerth: 1d20+11
Yzobu: 1d20+13

Il Rob flashes a steely eye. “That’s where the fight is,” he nods with satisfaction, and sets off at a run, moving 80’ this round, looking for his foes.

Perception:
Il Rob: 1d20+1

Jevicca casts Call Lightning, but doesn’t yet call a lightning bolt; instead she nods to Mott and drinks her potion of invisibility, trying to see any indication of what might be happening ahead.

Perception:
Jevicca: 1d20+1

Mott casts Shield on himself, increasing his AC to 23, and also looks carefully into the distance:

Perception:
Mott: 1d20+8

For some reason the roller isn't working for me, let me try those Perception rolls again:

Wentu: 1d20+13
Jevicca: 1d20+1
Mott: 1d20+8
Foerth: 1d20+11
Il Rob: 1d20+1
Yzobu: 1d20+13
Arundel: 1d20+5

Test roll:

1d20+5

I can't get the dice roller to work.

[Palanan]

Okay, trying rolls in a separate post:




Perception:

Wentu: [roll0]
Foerth: [roll1]
Il Rob: [roll2]
Jevicca: [roll3]
Arundel: [roll4]
Mott: [roll5]

[Palanan]

And one more:

Yzobu: [roll0]

If my math is correct, Il Rob should be 10' from the western edge of the battlemap at the end of his turn.

How long would it take for a halfling to climb onto a human's back? And would she need to make a Balance check as the human was walking?

[Tyndmyr]

Palanan, looks good. For the dice roller problem, I just grabbed a die and rolled manually. We can probably test in the OOC thread if need be?


The others are too far away to see properly(though they still have a pretty good idea, and seeing the ball of fog is certainly a clue), but Wentu got a nat twenty, and notices that the snow has been disturbed near here, both with footprints, and apparently digging at the snow.

I'd say that a move action would be plenty for that, and no balance check would be required for normal riding as the human runs, though if there's combat, that probably would. Concentration checks or similar can work with the appropriate modifiers for riding horseback.


Edreyn:

Your go!

The owl mutters something incomprehensible, and a large burst of fog appears, engulfing a 20 foot radius. Nobody can see the owl, though of course blind firing via sound is still possible.

[Palanan]

Okay, did you see the Perception checks I rolled in the previous two posts? Just wanted to be sure you knew that I managed to get the dice roller working, as per your advice.

Also, thanks for the rules clarification, that'll be Jevicca's next action when it's her turn again.

[Tyndmyr]

Oh, good, yeah, hadn't seen those, glad it's working!

[Edreyn]

Sorry, before I decide I need to know something.


1) How high is the owl? Last known height.
2) Is it allowed to shoot UP with flamethrower?

[Tyndmyr]

No worries!

Edreyn:

1) How high is the owl? Last known height. 45 feet, near the top of the tree.
2) Is it allowed to shoot UP with flamethrower? Sure!

[Palanan]

Foerth’s animal companion, the yzobu, is moving right behind Foerth for this turn.

Just emailed you an updated tactical map showing the position of the fog cloud.

Is the snowy ground level enough for a charge?

[Edreyn]

Scope: M37
Len: T50
Spider: Y46
Conrad: O32
Maddog: N32



Len: Does it... emit smoke? What kind of place is this?
Maddgog: Shall we fall back?
Len: Negative. I don't think this gas is poisonous. We should press on.
Spider: Commander, try to lure the bird out of this cloud. I'll try to shoot it.
Len: Roger that, let's follow your plan. Conrad and Maddog, you try to get to higher ground. This mountain should do.
Conrad: Permission to swipe it with explosives first, Commander?
Len: Granted. If there is an ambush of... anyone, they will like the surprise.
Scope: I'll cover you boys!



Scope: Move to N31 (on a tree). Attack if sees any humanoid or weird creature, except the team. If not, prepare an action to shoot if sees any such creature, or whoever attack Conrad or Maddog.
Len: Move to S43. Attack if sees any humanoid or weird creature, except the team. If not, prepare an action to shoot if sees any such creature.
Spider: Move to W43. Prepare an action to attack whoever attacks Len.
Conrad: Shoot 40mm grenade at Q35. Then move to Q35, climb on a mount.
Maddog: Move to Q33. Assist Conrad in climbing if applies here.



Scope
Attack: [roll0]
Attack again if 20: [roll1]
Attack third time if both are 20 to one-shot kill: [roll2]
Damage (if hit): [roll3]

Len
Attack: [roll4]
Attack again if 20: [roll5]
Attack third time if both are 20 to one-shot kill: [roll6]
Damage (if hit): [roll7]

Spider
Attack: [roll8]
Attack again if 20: [roll9]
Attack third time if both are 20 to one-shot kill: [roll10]
Damage (if hit): [roll11]

Conrad
I don't know if I need to check for attack since I hit the ground and not target, you may roll yourself if needed.
Damage: [roll12]
Climb: [roll13]

Maddog
Climb: [roll14]

[Tyndmyr]

Edreyn:
Roll problems may exist as a result of editing, only the initial posting will have working die rolls. It's a bit annoying, but if it pops up, a seperate post is totally fine. I can also make die rolls if modifiers are listed, so no worries.


The fog does indeed appear to be harmless, with those nearby exhibiting no symptoms. The grenade crashes against the rock, and the echoing roar bounces off the trees as the fragments splatter the nearby area, and you evacuate the area of the fog.

Rules note: grenades targetted at squares do require an attack roll, but the base DC is only five, modified by range increments. Within the first range increment, no modifier. I'll resolve the readied actions as/if they arise, all looks good!


Palanan:
Your go!

Sounds good, appreciate the map. The ground is indeed level and smooth enough for a charge.

All hear a loud blast as an explosion happens against the central rocks, and a bit of black smoke is visible even above them to the remainder of the team. Though his ears are ringing a bit, Wentu does hear footsteps to the northwest.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
All hear a loud blast as an explosion happens against the central rocks, and a bit of black smoke is visible even above them to the remainder of the team.

Can you give me an approximate coordinate for where the explosion takes place? Foerth and Il Rob should both be looking straight in that direction.

Also, given that they’ve likely seen it, can you describe it in a little more detail? Is this a great billowing swell of fire and smoke on top of the rocks, or does part of the rock formation itself explode into shards? And did Foerth or Il Rob see anything immediately preceding that explosion, say a flash from somewhere nearby?


Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Though his ears are ringing a bit, Wentu does hear footsteps to the northwest.

Did Wentu by any chance hear a whistling or a buzzing close by him, just before the explosion?

From his perch in the dense canopy at AA57, on the southeast side of the tree away from the invaders, Wentu will shift into halfling form, drink his potion of invisibility, and then quietly move to another branch with a 5-foot step. He will be on high alert while doing this, looking and listening as much as he can.

Perception:
Wentu: [roll0]

Stealth:
Wentu: [roll1]

Foerth will continue moving until he reaches the rock formation in the upper left corner of the battlemap, after which he’ll move south around its edge and pause at G5, with his yzobu right behind him. Both of them will be on high alert, and Foerth will be looking at the fog cloud, trying to see if he can spot or hear any foes in that direction.

Perception:
Foerth: [roll2]
Yzobu: [roll3]

Il Rob continues to run through the snow towards the sounds of battle. Starting from 10’ west of the battlemap, he will enter the main battlemap at K1, and his run action will take him to K14. He should have a good view of the fog cloud and the smoke from the most recent explosion, and he will be looking with fierce attention for any foe to engage.

Perception:
Il Rob: [roll4]

Now invisible, Jevicca climbs onto Mott, who continues moving east toward the fog cloud at a run, and he will finish his movement at O6, taking cover behind the trunk of the tree at that spot. Mott and Jevicca will both be looking carefully at the terrain before them, including the fog cloud and the smoke rising from the central rock formation.

Perception:
Jevicca: [roll5]
Mott: [roll6]

Jevicca’s animal companion, Arundel the roc, will fly behind them just a few feet above the snow, and will swoop into a low branch of the tree at X9, looking first to the southwest from X9, then panning through south, east and northeast.

Perception:
Arundel: [roll7]

[Tyndmyr]

Palanan:

Can you give me an approximate coordinate for where the explosion takes place? Foerth and Il Rob should both be looking straight in that direction.
> Sure, it happened at Q35.

Also, given that they’ve likely seen it, can you describe it in a little more detail? Is this a great billowing swell of fire and smoke on top of the rocks, or does part of the rock formation itself explode into shards? And did Foerth or Il Rob see anything immediately preceding that explosion, say a flash from somewhere nearby?
> More blast than fire, the noise is deafening, and a spray of rock fragments appears to pepper the nearby area. The ground is scoured mostly clear of snow, with only trace remains mingling with black marks on the rock spraying outward in all directions. This appeared to be the result of one of the humanoids blasting at it with his large black stick, similar to that fired at Wentu, but somewhat larger.

Wentu fades into invisibility, the fog still concealing him in his halfling form. The invaders left behind no equipment, but he can see from the hard marks in the snow that they left rapidly, and are perhaps carrying decent weight. It looks as if perhaps they were setting up a position here, both hiding in and under the trees, and moving the snow itself about. With effort and time, someone could perhaps dig themselves into the snow for concealment. He's confident that none of the humanoids remained with him in the fog, though.

Wentu had heard a quieter, odd sound immediately before the blast, like a hollow rushing of air. It was from the same place as one of the sets of footsteps ran from after the blast.

Foerth saw the blast, and catches a slight glimpse of movement behind the central rock. It looks as if perhaps someone ran that way after the fog cloud. Il Rob, sadly, is too focused on his running to notice any particulars, though he of course sees the blast.

Mott catches a bit of movement in Q-33, under the tree. It looks as if perhaps someone is attempting to hide behind it.


Edreyn:
Your go!

Scope's whole action is consumed by moving and climbing, but from his vantage point he does spot some movement to the west. Trees in between obscure the details, but there's a flicker of movement between branches somewhere near O-8. He can of course communicate this to his teammates if he wishes. The owl does not appear to exit the fog.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Wentu fades into invisibility, the fog still concealing him in his halfling form…. He's confident that none of the humanoids remained with him in the fog, though.

Is this a natural fog that accompanied the light snow, or do you mean the fog cloud cast on the tree with the invaders?

Just to clarify, Wentu is no longer in the vicinity of the fog cloud which he cast. He flew away in the previous round, and is now perched (invisibly) in a tree some distance away.


Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Mott catches a bit of movement in Q-33, under the tree. It looks as if perhaps someone is attempting to hide behind it.

Can you double-check this coordinate? On the battlemap I have Q-33 as part of the central rock formation. There’s a tree from roughly M-28 to O-32, but Q-33 is roughly 10 feet further southeast. Is someone on the rock formation at Q-33?

[Edreyn]

Scope: N31
Len: S43
Spider: W43
Conrad: Q35
Maddog: Q33



Scope: Commander there is someone moving to the west of our position. I advise caution!
Len: Roger that, Scope. Conrad, get to the highest position on this mountain and give them some hell!
Conrad: Roger that, Commander. Will give them my best boys!
Len: Maddog, stay near Conrad, but move somewhat to the west from him. Give a hot embrace to anyone coming!
Maddog: He-he, I love the small of a roasted... whoever in the morning!
Len: Spider, you come around this mountain from the south. I will do the same from the north.
Spider: Right, Commander.



Scope: Stay on N31. Prepare action: shoot any humanoid\weird creature except the team.
Len: Move to P34.
Spider: Move to AA36.
Conrad: Move to S32. Shoot a grenade is sees enemy. Otherwise move again to T31.
Maddog: Move to S31. Assist Conrad at climbing.



Scope
Attack roll: [roll0]
Confirm critical if applies roll: [roll1]
One-shot confirm is applies: [roll2]
Damage: [roll3]

Conrad
Attack roll: [roll4]
Confirm critical if applies roll: [roll5]
One-shot confirm is applies: [roll6]
Damage: [roll7]
Climb: [roll8]

Maddog:
Climb: [roll9]

[Tyndmyr]

Palanan:

Ah, appreciate the clarification, as I'd thought he was still within the fog. No worries, the invisibility still obscures him.

Clarification, the movement is indeed on Q-33, it is on the rocks, and further from the tree than I realized. Mostly goin' for flavor, but coord is accurate) Throughout this turn it becomes apparent that one of the men is climbing the rocks, as he scrambles a bit further up(S33) and readies a rifle. He seems wholly unaware of Wentu in his current invisible status.


Edreyn:

Looks good, I'm assuming you're waiting until someone comes into view rather than blind firing in the direction of current movement. Upon sighting of anyone, the readied attacks'll fire.

Back to Palanan!

[Palanan]

In the canopy of the tree at AA57, and still quite invisible, Wentu will look and listen all around, and then transform into snowy owl form again (but still invisible).

Perception:
Wentu: [roll0]

At G5, Foerth will be looking in the direction of the explosion on the main rock formation, and he should be able to see the man scrambling up the rocks to S33. His yzobu will also be on high alert:

Perception:
Foerth: [roll1]
Yzobu: [roll2]

If Foerth sees the man, then he will carefully slip around the trunk of the tree to H7, and if he has a clear view he’ll take a shot with Deadly Aim:

Stealth:
Foerth: [roll3]

Attack:
Foerth: [roll4]

Still running, Il Rob moves from K14 to K21, crossing the ice at its narrowest point, and continues running east while angling closer to the rock formation. He has his shield in one hand and his axe in the other, and he will be looking towards the smoke on the rock formation for enemies to engage with. He should finish his turn at P28.

Perception:
Il Rob: [roll5]

Jevicca, still invisible on Mott’s shoulders, begins casting Summon Nature’s Ally I. For his part, Mott will keep himself behind the tree at O6. He will quietly indicate the man climbing the rocks at S33, and will continue looking and listening in all directions while doing his best to stay hidden.

Perception:
Mott: [roll6]

Stealth:
Mott: [roll7]

Meanwhile, perched in a low branch of the tree at X9, Arundel the roc will also be scanning carefully all around:

Perception:
Arundel: [roll8]

[Tyndmyr]

Crap, thought this posted sunday, guess the forum ate my post. My bad for not double checking.

With regards to availability, it seems covid has canceled my plans, I'll check occasionally throughout the day Thursday, though I certainly don't expect anyone to prioritize this over family celebrations. =P

Palanan:

You can indeed see him post move, take the shot.
In addition, there is someone at the base of the rock who appeared to be shoving him upward, though the person atop the rocks clearly is more exposed, with no cover whatsoever.

Wentu sees an additional soldier heading around the southern flank of the rock(though the others lack LOS), currently at AA36.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
You can indeed see him post move, take the shot.
In addition, there is someone at the base of the rock who appeared to be shoving him upward, though the person atop the rocks clearly is more exposed, with no cover whatsoever.

Can you clarify what you mean by "post move, take the shot"? Not sure I follow.

Also, the person who seems to be shoving him up the rocks--can you give me the coordinates for that individual?

Okay--when you say "take the shot," do you mean that Foerth can see the soldier and can fire his arrow?

If so, please note that Foerth has already pre-rolled his attack, which was 16 all told. Also note his Stealth roll was 30.

As for the holiday, I have zero plans on Thursday, so I'll be available online all day.

Meanwhile, I think it's Edreyn's turn now.

[Edreyn]

My post? Do my chars see\hear anything new?

[Tyndmyr]

I was thining the damage roll, but turns out that's a miss, so no worries. This is all highly visible to both sides, so posting publicly.

Foerth ducks around the tree sneakily to H7 and pops a shot off at Conrad. This triggers Scope's readied action, resulting in a bullet fired from N31 into Foerth's shoulder(8 damage). This is, of course, readily observable by all.

Palanan:

Il Rob is moving quick, but he sees a good range of adversaries all the same. In addition to the person atop the rocks, who is quite visible, there's one of his fellows pushing him up, and of course the third one firing from the tree is also visible to him. Finally, the moving outline of a fourth humanoid is visible on the other side of the pair of trees in the center, at or near P34.


Edreyn: Your go

Still no sign of the wayward owl, though the mist remains where it suddenly appeared, treetops poking out of the clearly unnatural ball shape.

You of course see the attacker, dressed in something out of a ren fair, clearly acting aggressively, if ineffectively towards your team.

A quiet mumbling can just barely be heard from somewhere a bit south of the aggressive attacker, perhaps around M5, though it is hard to pinpoint.

A chap with a sword and shield charges to P28, moving at a furious pace, coming into view of the soldiers there.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Foerth ducks around the tree sneakily to H7 and pops a shot off at Conrad. This triggers Scope's readied action, resulting in a bullet fired from N31 into Foerth's shoulder(8 damage). This is, of course, readily observable by all.

Okay, it looks like N31 is in the middle of a tree. Can Foerth and the rest of Team Faerun tell whether the shot came from behind the trunk (e.g. on the ground) or somewhere up in the foliage?


Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
In addition to the person atop the rocks, who is quite visible, there's one of his fellows pushing him up, and of course the third one firing from the tree is also visible to him. Finally, the moving outline of a fourth humanoid is visible on the other side of the pair of trees in the center, at or near P34.

Okay, just to be sure I understand the tactical:

On the north side of the rock formation, we have a soldier climbing the rocks at S33, with another helping him just below, maybe at R33?

Then we have a muzzle flash from N31 (either on ground or in the tree?) and someone else at P34.

And on the south side is another soldier at AA36. Can you confirm all these are correct?



Also, a question for Edreyn: do you have any photos or artwork showing the appearance of the soldiers visible on the rock formation?

.

[Edreyn]

Good luck, have fun!

The team:

https://jaggedalliance.fandom.com/wiki/Corp._Len_Anderson
https://jaggedalliance.fandom.com/wiki/Sheila_%22Scope%22_Sterling?file=Scope.jpg
https://jaggedalliance.fandom.com/wiki/Kevin_%22Maddog%22_Cameron?file=Kevin_maddog_camer on_face.png
https://jaggedalliance.fandom.com/wiki/Lt._Conrad_Gillitt?file=Gillitt.jpg
https://jaggedalliance.fandom.com/wiki/Dr._Donna_%22Spider%22_Houston?file=Spider.jpg


Scope: N31
Len: P34
Spider: AA36
Conrad: S32
Maddog: S31

Seen enemy 1: H7
Seen enemy 2: P28
Mumbling unseen enemy: M5



Scope: Movement! I got someone.
Len: What the hell! A freakin' KNIGHT is coming to me.
Conrad: Is it medieval world or something?
Maddog: Let's just roast 'em!
Len: Scope, keep on the one you got from a far. Maddog and Conrad, fry this chicken in it's metal skin!
Scope: Aye
Maddog: Here comes the fire!
Conrad: Sure I will!
Len: Spider keep pushing forward to west.
Spider: Roger that, commander.



Scope: Don't move. Attack target on H7 again.
Len: Don't move. Attack on P28.
Spider: Move to AA28. Attack closest enemy if there is one. If not then keep moving to AA21, fall prone.
Conrad: Don't move. Throw semtex to P27. Detonate.
Maddog: Move to P31 (jump down). Attack with flamethrower targeting on P28.



Scope
Attack: [roll0]
Attack if 20: [roll1]
Attack if both are 20: [roll2]
Damage: [roll3]

Len
Attack: [roll4]
Attack if 20: [roll5]
Attack if both are 20: [roll6]
Damage: [roll7]

Spider
Attack: [roll8]
Attack if 20: [roll9]
Attack if both are 20: [roll10]
Damage: [roll11]

Conrad:
Don't know what to roll for throwing, if any, please roll it yourself.
Damage: [roll12]

Maddog
Attack: [roll13]
Attack if 20: [roll14]
Attack if both are 20: [roll15]
Damage: [roll16]

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Edreyn
The team:

Okay, thanks. I was thinking more something that would show them in full combat gear, with their particular style of snow camo, helmets and goggles, etc.

[Edreyn]

Okay, thanks. I was thinking more something that would show them in full combat gear, with their particular style of snow camo, helmets and goggles, etc.

Such images I don't have, sorry.
Now show yours. :smallsmile:

[Palanan]

Tyndmyr, just a reminder about my questions in post #81 above.

Also, I'll be available all day on Thursday, motivated to power through.

[Tyndmyr]

All:
The invaders shout in a foreign tongue to one another as they advance. The sniper in the tree fires again, missing. Gunfire also echos to the north of the rock peak, from the soldier standing there, though again without effect.

The soldier flanking south of the rocks moves around to AA28, sees a bit of movement near O-6 and fires at it. While bits of foliage fly from the bullet's passage, there is again no impact.

The soldier at S32 lobs what looks like a small package to P27, and it scarcely lands before detonating in a blast akin to that of a fireball(14 damage, DC 18 reflex for half for Il Rob, who I believe is the only one near enough to be affected). The tree looks like it caught some of the blast, and while remaining standing for now, it begins to sway and creak unsteadily.

Last but not least, the final soldier charges towards the blast, a gout of fire blasting from his position in P31 for a thirty feet line intersecting P28, setting alight everything within five feet of the line(11 damage, DC 15 reflex for half damage)





Okay, it looks like N31 is in the middle of a tree. Can Foerth and the rest of Team Faerun tell whether the shot came from behind the trunk (e.g. on the ground) or somewhere up in the foliage?



Okay, just to be sure I understand the tactical:

On the north side of the rock formation, we have a soldier climbing the rocks at S33, with another helping him just below, maybe at R33?

Then we have a muzzle flash from N31 (either on ground or in the tree?) and someone else at P34.

And on the south side is another soldier at AA36. Can you confirm all these are correct?



Also, a question for Edreyn: do you have any photos or artwork showing the appearance of the soldiers visible on the rock formation?

.

Palanan:

Pretty much, yeah, the muzzle flash is from the tree, and the soldier on the rocks was there, but has now jumped down and continued to move. The rest all seems accurate.


Edreyn:

I appreciate the comprehensive posting format, helps me keep all the chars straight. Ten PCs in a combat is a shade more than I'm used to!

Rolled 16 on the throwing check, and since it's only a DC 5 to hit a square, easy day regardless of modifiers. Also of potential import, Spider rolled a nat 20 on the spot check and notes that his target is fairly well concealed, with the trees granting a cover bonus.

Palanan, your up!

OOC: And happy thanksgiving to all!

[Palanan]

I'm working on my next turn right now, but an urgent question for the DM:

I'm having a really hard time understanding the positions and movement. Are you able to make a quick update to the battlemap, or can you wait online a few minutes while I work up a tactical view and send it to you?


Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
The tree looks like it caught some of the blast, and while remaining standing for now, it begins to sway and creak unsteadily.

To clarify, is this the tree where Scope is perched at N31?

[Edreyn]

While Palanan makes his post, I also have questions.


1) Is my sniper positioned on a tree that started burning?
2) Can you please give the coordinates of seen enemies, and mark which are concealed and also mark who is already wounded. Okay if you do it after Palanan moves.

[Palanan]

Still invisible at AA57, Wentu begins casting Summon Nature’s Ally II, which should appear at the start of his next turn.

At H7, Foerth will use a free action to urge his yzobu to charge into the fray:

Handle Animal:
Foerth: [roll0]

Needing little encouragement, Foerth’s yzobu takes the Run action to charge towards the fire, explosions and yelling voices, ending at O29. Everyone within 30’ must make a Fort save vs. DC 15 or be sickened for 10 rounds by the yzobu’s heavy, oily-furred musk. This includes Scope, Il Rob, and the soldiers at S32 and P33.

...after which Foerth will take two shots with Rapid Shot at the soldier atop the rocks at S32:

Attack:
Foerth vs. S32: [roll1]
Foerth vs. S32: [roll2]

As Il Rob charges through P28, one of the invaders throws something which explodes at P27. Right afterward, another invader at P31 sends a gout of flame from a long dragon-stick. Il Rob tries to avoid both:

Reflex:
Il Rob vs. package fireball: [roll3]
Il Rob vs. dragon-stick: [roll4]

Il Rob makes both saves easily, and takes 7+5=12 damage.

Il Rob makes a charge attack from P28 to the invader at P31, swinging his dwarven waraxe:

Attack:
Il Rob vs. P31: [roll5]

Il Rob’s AC will be 24 until his next turn.

Still invisible at O6, Jevicca drops from Mott’s shoulders and begins casting another Summon Nature’s Ally, this time SNA III.

The summons from her previous round, a stirge (https://64.media.tumblr.com/04299dc3e282aa47b846b7951bfc1b49/tumblr_inline_p4igfxpm4d1robfbt_500.png), appears at S13 and flies toward the soldier who just fired from AA28 on the south side of the rock formation. The stirge has a fly speed of 40 and should end its turn at X19. The stirge has an AC of 16 and 5 hit points. This is the first of five rounds that the stirge will be present.

Mott leans around the tree and fires his crossbow, already loaded with a tanglebolt, at the soldier who just fired from AA28. This is outside the crossbow’s range increment, so Mott will take a -2 on the shot. He ducks back around the tree once he's fired and reloads with another tanglebolt.

Attack:
Mott vs. AA28: [roll6]

Arundel the roc remains perched in a low branch in a tree at X9, and continues to watch all around:

Perception:
Arundel: [roll7]

[Tyndmyr]

To Both:

Yes, the damaged tree is the one the sniper is in(though the sniper himself was out of the blast radius by virtue of height).

Keeping track of positioning is fairly challenging with this many. By all means, feel free to toss up a minimap, which I may do later as well. Right now, a majority of positions are visible.

A four legged animal with a strange bovine head, appearing like a cross between a horse and a yak, long hair swaying around it, thunders from the west up to O29 despite the noise and general tumult. The beast has a stench that sickens even the strongest(Fort Save DC 15 to avoid, or be sickened for ten rounds) for an area 30 feet around it(Scope, Il Rob, soldiers at S32, P33, I believe)

Il Rob looks a little damaged by the blast and flame, but remains standing, and lunges at Maddog with a battleaxe, slashing fiercely.

A number of ranged attacks are also fired with startling accuracy for weapons so apparently antiquated(damage details coming shortly).

Palanan:

Can you toss in damage on those shots and that battle axe attack?

Total list of positions of visible adversaries:
Scope: N31
Len: P34
Spider: AA28.
Conrad: S32 (throws explosives)
Maddog: P31(has flamethrower)


Edreyn:

Waiting on Palanan for some damage rolls, but you can go ahead and make your saves for the sicken regardless.

Of note, an oversized bat-mosquito monster also is now visible to you, though it has not yet attacked. It is approaching faster than a man can run, and currently is at X19.

[Palanan]

damage for Foerth’s arrows:
[roll0]
[roll1]

Foerth’s two arrows strike Conrad with greater impact than expected, dealing a total of 23 points of damage.

damage for Il Rob’s waraxe:
[roll2]

Fort save:
Il Rob: [roll3]

Il Rob shrugs off the yzobu’s oily odor, but his axe only gouges Maddog rather than delivering the mighty stroke the dwarf had intended.


Did Mott's shot also hit?


I should also point out that Spider, at AA28, can see a peculiar creature (https://64.media.tumblr.com/04299dc3e282aa47b846b7951bfc1b49/tumblr_inline_p4igfxpm4d1robfbt_500.png) flying out of the swirling snowflakes. It's roughly the size of a small cat, with four reddish-leathery wings beating at the cold air, and Spider can tell it's heading straight for her.

.

[Edreyn]

Scope: Conrad you bastard! Your semtex put my nesting tree on fire!
Conrad: Sorry blondie, but this was the only way to slow this medieval guy down.
Len: Shut up both of you! Scope, move to another tree on the west, and keep the one you found first occupied.
Scope: Negative, sir. Permission to neutralize the guy with the sword.
Len: Authorized, but still get down before fire catches you.
Scope: On it, sir.
Len: Conrad, stop using explosives for now, just shoot at this knight.
Conrad: Yes sir!
Len: Maddog, don't burn anything for now, you might hit Scope and Conrad. Just bash him in a teeth!
Maddog: He-he... I will!
Spider: Guys, there is some overgrown mosquito coming right to me. Can you assist?
Len: Damn, you are on the other side. Okay, Conrad, forget the knight, move to the south and help Spider!
Conrad: Ah... will do!
Len: Hold on, Spider, Conrad is coming to help you.
Spider: Thanks guys!
Scope: Wait, what the... some kind of mutant just rolled out of nowhere. And it stinks like Hell!
Len: Ignore it for now, everyone! Just concentrate on the knight!



Scope: N31
Len: P34
Spider: AA28
Conrad: S32
Maddog: P31

Enemy stinking creature: O29
Enemy with sword and shield: In a cell adjacent to Maddog
Enemy mosquito: X19
Enemy found first: H7 (if still there)



Scope: Move to N25. If climbing takes part of move action, the as close to this cell as possible, while still be able to also make attack move. Attack using Pistol on the guy with the sword.
Len: Don't move. Attack guy with sword if he's alive. If dead, shoot on stinking mutant.
Spider: Move to Z23. Attack mosquito.
Conrad: If mosquito is alive: Move to X32. Attack mosquito with Steyr. If dead, don't move, attack knight with Steyr. If knight is dead, don't move, attack mutant with Steyr..
Maddog: If knight is alive. Don't move, attack knight with metal baton. If knight is dead, move to adjacent cell with mutant, attack with baton.



Fortitude saves
Scope: [roll0]
Len: [roll1]
Spider: [roll2]
Conrad: [roll3]
Maddog: [roll4]

Attack and damage:
Scope
Attack roll: [roll5]
Attack if 20: [roll6]
Attack if both are 20: [roll7]
Damage: [roll8]

Len
Attack roll: [roll9]
Attack if 20: [roll10]
Attack if both are 20: [roll11]
Damage: [roll12]

Spider
Attack roll: [roll13]
Attack if 20: [roll14]
Attack if both are 20: [roll15]
Damage: [roll16]

Conrad
Attack roll: [roll17]
Attack if 20: [roll18]
Attack if both are 20: [roll19]
Damage: [roll20]

Maddog
Attack roll: [roll21]
Attack if 20: [roll22]
Attack if both are 20: [roll23]
Damage: [roll24]


Something is strange here. Does the dice roller actually adds modifiers? How come I get 1d20+X rolls actually LESS then X+1?
If modifiers aren't actually added, please don't forget to add them on your own.

[Tyndmyr]

That is really weird. I'd assumed it added modifiers, because, well, that's what a die roller should do.

Test roll(doesn't mean anything, just testing modifiers) [roll0]

Will resume in morning, out of it, but wanted to test this quick, and hope nothing got thrown too far off as a result.

Edit: That seems an appropriate result, I have no idea why the other roll had a result lower than the modifier. That's exceptionally odd.

[Palanan]

Not sure if Mott's crossbow shot hit its target (Spider at AA28), but if so here's the damage:

Mott: [roll0]

Also, he's firing a tanglebolt, so if it hits there will be some effects from that.

[Tyndmyr]

Alright, quick update, might be able to get on tonight, definitely can get on tomorrow.

I don't have a better understanding of why the dice roller is doing that, but if you're concerned about the reliability, you can simply roll 1d20, and put the amount needed to be added to it alongside, and I'll do the quick math. I'm going to treat this batch of moves as not having the modifier added, because there are no results that only make sense that way, and there are results that only make sense the other way.


Not sure if Mott's crossbow shot hit its target (Spider at AA28), but if so here's the damage:

Mott: [roll0]

Also, he's firing a tanglebolt, so if it hits there will be some effects from that.

Palanan:

Appreciated, though I'm afraid Mott's shot misses.



Not spoilering the results of Edryen's actions, as visibility is pretty clear at this point to all. Len, Scope and Spider shake off the foul odor, but the others are have less stout stomachs, and suffer the -2 penalty from the sickness.

Scope draws a handgun and advances to N25, firing at the axe-wielding fellow(10 damage). (climbing unnecessary, you can drop as a free action) (You specified sword wielding, but I believe you mean the axe wielder charging you? Let me know if incorrect)

Len also fires on the axe-bearing attacker, but is less successful, the bullets kicking up puffs of snow.

Spider moves to Z23 and fires on the oversized mosquito-creature, but it's fast speed makes for a hard target, and it only just manages to dodge.

Conrad moves to X32 to provide some fire support on the mosquito, but has no more luck with it than Spider did.

Maddog starts beating the knight with a metal baton, the loud clangs echoing off the armor as he strikes repeatedly(4 damage).

I believe that's everything prior to Palanan's turn!

[Rogan]

I don't have a better understanding of why the dice roller is doing that, but if you're concerned about the reliability, you can simply roll 1d20, and put the amount needed to be added to it alongside, and I'll do the quick math. I'm going to treat this batch of moves as not having the modifier added, because there are no results that only make sense that way, and there are results that only make sense the other way.



Sorry for inferring here. I was interested in this fight (and the discussion preceding it) so I was reading along.

The dice roller in the forum has multiple options and I think, the wrong was used.

If you use the code (roll=to hit)1d20+5(/roll) you should get the result you expect. (One number displayed, including the mod +5)
Using (rollv=dmg)2d6+2(roll) would give you three numbers instead, the individual results and the sum, but without the mod.

(You need to replace the ( ) with [ ] )

In short, normally you should use roll, but if you need to know the individual results, rollv

I hope you don't mind my input.
Have fun!

[Palanan]

Wentu finishes his Summon Nature’s Ally II, and a wolf appears at AA50. The wolf will take a Run action to close the distance to Spider, ending at Z24 (directly adjacent to her space at Z23) and snarling aggressively, preparing to attack from behind. The wolf’s AC is 14, hp 13, and this is the first of five rounds it will be active. Note the wolf is providing a flanking bonus to the stirge attacking Spider.

Meanwhile Wentu, still invisible, will take wing and fly towards the central rock formation, ending his movement at approx. 40’ above Z45. Seeing Conrad atop the rock formation, Wentu will cast Call Lighting, thus rendering himself visible.

Attack:
Call Lightning vs. Conrad: [roll0] damage

Conrad can make a Reflex save against DC 16 for half damage.

Still at H7, Foerth will take two more shots with Rapid Shot, this time firing at Scope in N25:

Attack:
Foerth vs. Scope: [roll1]
Foerth vs. Scope: [roll2]

Meanwhile, Foerth’s yzobu will plow past Il Rob and attack Len at P34 with its gore attack and armor spikes.

Attack:
Yzobu vs. Len (gore attack): [roll3]
Yzobu vs. Len (armor spikes): [roll4]

Struck by Scope’s small-arms fire, Il Rob cries out in pain, but with intense focus he will swing his waraxe at Maddog again.

Attack:
Il Rob vs. Maddog: [roll5]

Il Rob’s AC is back up to 26.

Hearing Il Rob’s bellow of pain, Jevicca, still invisible, will finish her SNA III and run forward, using the Run action to reach S22, where she remains invisible and silent, watching the melee with Il Rob and the invaders.

Meanwhile, Jevicca’s SNA III, a cheetah, will materialize at O14 and use its Sprint ability to tear across the battlefield and make a bite attack on Scope at N25.

Attack:
Cheetah vs. Scope: [roll6]

If the attack hits, the cheetah will also have the chance for a trip attempt. The cheetah has AC 15, hp 19, and this is the first of five rounds it will be active.

The stirge, meanwhile, moves from X19 to Z22, directly adjacent to Spider’s position at Z23, and makes a melee touch attack to attach itself to Spider:

Melee Touch Attack:
Stirge vs. Spider: [roll7]

Note the stirge is receiving a flanking bonus from the summoned wolf. If the stirge hits, it will attach and begin draining blood from Spider, which is a nice irony given her specialty. This is the second of five rounds the stirge will be active.

Meanwhile, Mott will move to S9 and take a shot at Conrad on top of the rocks at X32.

Attack:
Mott vs. Conrad: [roll8]

And Arundel will continue scanning in case any other hostiles are sneaking about:

Perception:
Arundel: [roll9]


During the last round, I forgot to add Foerth's favored enemy bonus to his damage rolls against Conrad. That was my oversight, but if I had added the bonus appropriately it would have been an extra +4 for each arrow, meaning 23+8 or 31 points of damage all told for Conrad.

[Edreyn]

Should I post my moves?

[Palanan]

I may have some damage to roll--waiting on the DM to confirm.



EDIT: Online now and standing by.

[Tyndmyr]

Thanks Rogan, hopefully that helps explain what's goin' on with Edreyn's role.

All:
A wolf lunges from the woods to the east, charging up to attack Spider(occupying Z24). It hasn't been able to do so yet, but that and the horrible mosquito-monster are clearly intending something awful for her. The stirge(mosquito monster) is successful in it's attack(1 con damage)

The owl reappears, flying, in Z45, amid a literal clap of thunder and lightening, which strikes Conrad for 13 damage(Reflex DC16 for half)

Two more arrows wing their way in towards Scope, one of which embeds itself into the tree, the other of which strikes him. (13 damage)

The yzobu charges, striking Len twice(15 and 12 damage, respectively).

The axe-man, shouting in pain, swings with the axe and misses.

A cheetah also appears, charging, and biting ineffectually at Scope.

Edreyn: After damage, your turn. There is a correction to the damage inflicted last round to Conrad via arrow. The total damage should be eight higher. In the interest of not backtracking, you can simply add it at the end of your action.

[Palanan]

damage for Foerth’s arrow on Scope:
[roll0]

damage for yzobu attacks on Len:
gore: [roll1]
armor spikes: [roll2]

The stirge does no hp damage, but its proboscis sucks out a sudden surge of blood, draining 1 Con from Spider.

In the next round, the wolf will make a trip attack on Spider. In Pathfinder, the trip attack is an attack roll against the target's Combat Maneuver Defense. For Spider, that will be her BAB plus Str and Dex modifiers, plus 10. Her total CMD will probably be around 15-20, so it might be worth asking Edreyn to calculate that up front, unless D20 Modern has a different approach. This is one of those potential rules issues that we were hoping to uncover.

[Tyndmyr]

Damage edited into the above post for clarity. For stuff like that, that's going to be visible to everyone, no need to spoiler it, really.

With regards to how attacks targetting CMD work, it seems 3.5 and D20M both use the concept of provoking an AoO, making an unarmed str/dex check, followed by a str check opposed by dex or strength(defender's choice). That probably works with both, with any situational equipment/feat/etc things that boost CMB/CMD applying to that as normal per the 3.5 rules. 3.5 Improved Trip/Unarmed Strike/etc all remove the AoO step, so that probably translates between them all. Does that seem like a reasonable standard to use for all?

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Damage edited into the above post for clarity. For stuff like that, that's going to be visible to everyone, no need to spoiler it, really.

Okay, fair enough.

Since Conrad is highly visible to just about everyone on Team Faerûn, can they get a sense of how badly injured he is? By my count he’s taken 44 points of damage so far (two enhanced arrows and a bolt of lightning) and it would be helpful to have a rough idea of whether he's still rare or getting on towards well-done.


Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Does that seem like a reasonable standard to use for all?

I’m okay with just about any framework you’re comfortable using, just wanted to be sure the two systems were compatible.

[Edreyn]

Now it gets really complex. Any chance to know where my enemies are positioned? Maybe mark them on the map?
And yeah, how much HP Conrad lost? Is he still alive?

[Palanan]

Edreyn, I hear you about the positions and the difficulty in visualizing them. If I can find some time today I'll work up a basic map and send it to the DM, and maybe he can post it for us.

As for damage, Conrad took a total of 31 points from the two arrows the previous round. He's just been hit by lightning, so it looks like he needs to make a Reflex save against DC 16 for half damage. If he makes the save, that's an additional 6 points for 37 damage. If he fails the save, the full damage from the lightning is 13 points, which added to the 31 from last round would be 44 points all told.

[Edreyn]

Even 37 is much above his HP, so the guy is no longer with us in any case. Will write for others tomorrow.

[Palanan]

Okay, looking forward to seeing what the others do.

[Edreyn]

I knew I needed to finish of this owl. :smallbiggrin:
That's from me OOC, since heroes know nothing about druids and summoning. :smalltongue:

Also, thank you Palanan, for the detailed map!

Open roleplay:
Pierced by arrows, Conrad collapses. He tries to say something, but instead chokes with his blood and just gasps helplessly. After a few moments he gets silent and still.


Scope: Damn, they killed Conrad!
Maddog: Bastards!
Spider: I have no choice but say it: beasts are way to organized! They seem to be intelligent, maybe even on our level!
Scope: What kind of wasp nest we disturbed?
Len: Like hell I know!
Scope: What we do, Commander?!
Len: If we want get back alive, we must deal with all those smart-beasts! Scope, take higher position again. Maddog, get back on the higher groiund and burn those ^&%$#*@!
Scope: Yes, commander.
Maddog: I hope it works!
Spider: And me, sir?
Len: I know you are unskilled with that, but it's our only chance! Try to get on the hill and get Conrad's stuff!
Spider: Ah, hell...



Scope: N25
Len: P34
Spider: Z23
Conrad: X32 (Dead)
Maddog: P31



Scope: Move to R27. Fall prone or sit, high enough to see "knight" but not higher. Attack the "knight".
Len: Move to U35 (climb). Use medical kit on himself. Lie prone. If fails to climb, still use a medical kit.
Spider: Move (climb and run) to X28. Attack "knight" if he's alive and can see him. If not, attack flying creature. If fails to climb, attack nearest creature. Fall prone.
Maddog: Move to R31. Shoot a cone of fire facing north.



I don't remember the rules for attack of opportunity, so please roll them yourself. I assume all soldiers provoke them.

Scope:
Dodging attack of opportunity: please roll yourself.
Attack: (roll)1d20+6(/roll)
Attack 2 if got 20: (roll)1d20+6(/roll)
Attack 3 if both are 20: (roll)1d20+6(/roll)
Damage: (roll)2d10(/roll)

Len:
Dodging attack of opportunity: please roll yourself.
Climb: (roll)1d20-1(/roll)
Heal skill: (roll)1d20+4(/roll) Don't know if the kit gives bonus, check please.

Spider:
Dodging attack of opportunity: please roll yourself.
Climb: (roll)1d20(/roll)
Attack: (roll)1d20+5(/roll)
Attack 2 if got 20: (roll)1d20+5(/roll)
Attack 3 if both are 20: (roll)1d20+5(/roll)
Damage: (roll)2d8(/roll)

Maddog:
Climb: (roll)1d20(/roll)
Attack: (roll)1d20+4(/roll)
Attack 2 if got 20: (roll)1d20+4(/roll)
Attack 3 if both are 20: (roll)1d20+4(/roll)
Damage: (roll)3d6(/roll)


Rolls don't work. Will make another post with them.

[Edreyn]

I don't remember the rules for attack of opportunity, so please roll them yourself. I assume all soldiers provoke them.

Scope:
Dodging attack of opportunity: please roll yourself.
Attack: [roll0]
Attack 2 if got 20: [roll1]
Attack 3 if both are 20: [roll2]
Damage: [roll3]

Len:
Dodging attack of opportunity: please roll yourself.
Climb: [roll4]
Heal skill: [roll5] Don't know if the kit gives bonus, check please.

Spider:
Dodging attack of opportunity: please roll yourself.
Climb: [roll6]
Attack: [roll7]
Attack 2 if got 20: [roll8]
Attack 3 if both are 20: [roll9]
Damage: [roll10]

Maddog:
Dodging attack of opportunity: please roll yourself.
Climb: [roll11]
Attack: [roll12]
Attack 2 if got 20: [roll13]
Attack 3 if both are 20: [roll14]
Damage: [roll15]


Dice roller hates me. :smallfrown:
Though I still think mods aren't applied.
Tyndmyr, maybe you just for me yourself? That way you'll know what is correct and what isn't.

[Tyndmyr]

I appreciate the detailed minimap, it helps!

Rules stuffs: Largely, you're only going to provoke an AoO when leaving a threatened square(unless using the withdraw action, which ignores this, but allows no other action that turn. Five foot steps, also do not provoke.), I'll check map on those.

As for the rest, it does indeed appear as if modifiers are not added, but no worries, so long as I know that, I can tack 'em on. For RP purposes, there might actually be a significant bleed-out range in D20M, I can check that later out of curiosity, but mechanically, it's not likely to matter to the outcome, so I'll let it be for right now.

AoOs: Note that unless combat reflexes or a similar feat has been taken, each entity can only take one AoO per turn, even if multiples are provoked. I'll let Palanan pick, and declare/roll all AoOs before posting his own turn. Barring successful trip attacks or the like, the movements should still take place, so I'm going to still post a summary of this turn. If a trip attack does work, firing from prone is honestly pretty fine in D20M, so it's not a big deal to just readjust position and continue. If something is taken down by a prior move/attack, it gets no AoO for later attacks, and the following list is in action order.
List of AoOs provoked(public info):

Scope provokes from the big cat.
Spider provokes attacks from the wolf. (stirge is too small to threaten, and is mostly attached in any case. It is also too small to prevent movement)
Maddog provokes from both axe-man and Yzobu


Apparently taken somewhat aback by the continual appearance of strange monsters from nowhere, the attacking squad retreats a bit, but does not flee. Instead, they are merely repositioning themselves to better fire on their attackers. Scope, in moving away from his attacker, goes to R27, and attempts to support Maddog, firing and the missing(18 to hit with modifiers) as the armor is surprisingly effective in protecting against bullets. Len moves only a very short distance away before turning to his first aid kit, and successfully bandages his wounds(4 hp restored).

Recognizing the precariousness of his tactical situation, Spider attempts to move from between the monsters flanking him. The bites and horrible whine are distracting, as he doesn't make it very far, stopping at X25, unable to see the rest of his squad. He fires a desperate shot at the mosquito monster sucking blood from him in an attempt to thin out his adversaries as he falls prone, blowing chunks of stirge over the rocky hillside, killing it.

Maddog moves out from being surrounded as well, attempting to retreat from the foul smelling monster and also the strange oxen. While both attack him again as he repositions(R31), and fires a stream of flame north through the area he just vacated, attempting to light both of his enemies aflame(10 damage, DC15 reflex for half). The tree in R31, falling in the path as well, also is hit my the flame, and is set afire, casting a dancing reddish light over the whole affair.

Edreyn:

Healing in D20M is a full round action, so the most you could move and still heal is a five foot step, which coincidentally, does not provoke an AoO. I suspected that this was probably most in line with your intent, rather than eating an AoO to move further and not getting to heal. Each person can be successfully healed for 1d4 hp once per day, so if positioning allows, he can attempt it on his fellows, or attempt to use it to save his dead/dying buddy(though this would likely be largely RP rather than immediately helpful, since stabilizing is one action, healing is another, and if he remains in the negatives, as is likely, he would still be knocked out.)

Sorry for the ramble, healing in D20M isn't terribly intuitive.


Stirge oddity(Public information):

This is effectively a grapple, as per the Stirge rules, but D20M and 3.5 have somewhat different grappling rules. It doesn't matter a ton in this example, as the size category modifiers granted by D20 modern to dealing damage to a smaller creature in a grapple would largely make this an autokill regardless, so despite the flavoring or exact rules used, the stirge would most definitely be dead, but this is an excellent find for potentially wonky ruleset, thanks!


Palanan, time for AoOs, then apply damage, then to your turn! You're welcome to toss this all into one post if you want, even though there's usually a lot of back and forth with AoOs.
.

[Palanan]

Cheetah vs. Scope: [roll0]
damage if successful: [roll1]

Wolf vs. Spider: [roll2]
damage if successful: [roll3]

Yzobu vs. Maddog (gore attack): [roll4]
damage if successful: [roll5]

Il Rob vs. Maddog: [roll6]
damage if successful: [roll7]

Il Rob vs. dragon-stick: [roll8]
Yzobu vs. dragon-stick: [roll9]

...yeah, no. Il Rob and the yzobu both take 10 points of fire damage.


Wentu will rise higher, up to approximately 80 feet (or lower if the snow would interfere with visibility) and will use Call Lightning on Len.

Attack:
Call Lightning vs. Len: [roll10]

Len can make a Reflex save against DC 16 for half damage.

Meanwhile, Wentu’s wolf will follow Spider, attacking her again from Y24. This is the second of five rounds the wolf will be active.

Attack:
Wolf vs. Spider: [roll11]
damage if successful: [roll12]

Foerth sees Scope move to R27, so Foerth moves to N12 and takes two shots at Scope:

Attack:
Foerth vs. Scope: [roll13]
Foerth vs. Scope: [roll14]

damage if successful (Shot 1): [roll15]
damage if successful (Shot 2): [roll16]

Meanwhile, the yzobu will turn to attack Maddog with gore and spike attacks, gaining a +2 flanking bonus from Il Rob.

Attack:
Yzobu vs. Maddog (gore attack): [roll17]
Yzobu vs. Maddog (armor spikes): [roll18]

damage if successful: gore: [roll19]
damage if successful: armor spikes: [roll20]

Aware that Scope is firing at him, and seeing the yzobu attacking Maddog, Il Rob will turn, move to Q28 and make an attack on Scope:

Attack:
Il Rob vs. Scope: [roll21]
damage if successful: [roll22]

Still invisible at S22, Jevicca will cast Deathwatch, and will examine Scope to see her current condition—in particular, whether Scope is above or below 4 hit points. This spell will last for 50 minutes after casting.

Jevicca’s summoned cheetah will continue attacking Scope, pursuing to R26 and making another bite attack. This is the second of five rounds the cheetah will be active.

Attack:
Cheetah vs. Scope: [roll23]
damage if successful: [roll24]

Discarding the crossbow, Mott takes a double move action to X24, adjacent to Spider at X25, raising his quarterstaff and, in a commanding voice, shouting “Surrender!” He will repeat his command in Draconic, Dwarven and Elven.

And once again, Arundel will continue scanning in case any other hostiles are sneaking about:

Perception:
Arundel: [roll25]

Once again I forgot to include an additional +4 on Foerth’s damage. His second shot clearly hit, so Scope has taken a minimum of 14+4 = 18 damage.

If the first shot also hits, that’s an additional 9+4 = 13 damage, or 31 damage total.

Also, Il Rob pretty definitely hit Scope and maxed out his damage, so that’s another 16 points on top of the above, for a grand total of either 34 or 47 points.


Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Maddog moves out from being surrounded as well, attempting to retreat from the foul smelling monster and also the strange oxen.

Is this an anti-dwarven comment? :smalltongue:

[Edreyn]

So, what's happening? Is there anyone still alive among the team of my poor innocent invaders?

[Palanan]

Depends on how many hit points Scope and Len have left. Waiting on the DM for an update.

[Tyndmyr]

Oh my, quite a turn!

AoOs:
All attacks dodged without a hitch!

The owl spirals upward to an altitude of 80 feet, another bolt of lightning smashing down on Len(11 damage, DC 16 reflex for half), while an arrow soars in from Foerth to strike Scope(14 damage), while another goes awry.

Maddog is attacked by the smelly ox-creature, though he takes no damage from it and Il Rob joins the assault on poor Scope(18 damage), dropping the poor fellow into bleedout(might actually be dead, but definitely well into bleedout and out of this fight either way). The cheetah pauses to take a bite out of the unlucky sniper, adding further injury to the helpless target(8 damage, due to auto-crit).

The crossbowman throws down his crossbow, and shouts something incomprehensible in a strong, imperative tone of voice. After the briefest of pauses, he repeats his attempt using another word, and finally a third.

Palanan:

Scope is definitely under 4hp.

Also, totally was makin' a bit of fun of how modern humans might view a dwarf. =P


Should be good for Edreyn's turn!

[Edreyn]

Again, please write how much HP everyone lost. You can do rolls for reflex yourself, if you agree.
And also, is axe wielding guy still standing? He got quite a few hits.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Edreyn
Again, please write how much HP everyone lost.

According to the damage I rolled, Scope has taken a minimum of 18+16 damage, which is a minimum of 34 points. Apparently the cheetah got in some damage as well—I rolled 4, so that’s at least 38 points all told, if not a little more. It sounds like Scope is unconscious and bleeding out.


Originally Posted by Edreyn
And also, is axe wielding guy still standing? He got quite a few hits.

He’s a little singed and bleeding, but very much still on his feet and looking for his next target, probably Maddog.



EDIT: Are we still doing this?

.

[Edreyn]

With a short gasp, the female soldier with the long rifle falls down. A professional sniper, she still wasn't ready to face that many combatants at short range. Scope is dead.

((Again, I could lose track with coordinates, adjust them when I am wrong))


Len: Scope! No!
Maddog: %$*# this all! The fantasy bastards got us pinned!
Spider: I assume our survival chances are grim, Commander.
Len: Everyone, shut up! I am not dying today, at least not without taking some of those medieval bastards with me! Maddog, keep up burning those scoundrels!
Maddog: See you in Hell, boss!
Len: Spider, get over here and bandage me. I'll try continuing Conrad's work!



Len: U35
Spider: X28
Maddog: R31

Scope (dead): N25
Conrad (dead): X32



Len: Move to X32 (over dead Conrad). Pick up Conrad's Semtex charge and detonator. Throw Semtex at enemies to the north. Again, lost where enemies are now, but try to get cell that will capture largest number of enemies, and avoid damaging Maddog, if can help it. If can't pick up items and attack at same turn, then after moving use Steyr to attack axe-guy.
Spider: Move to X31. Heal Len with Medical Kit. If requires full action, then adjust my request as last time.
Maddog: Use flamethrower to attack enemies to the north, try to catch as many as possible in a cone.



Len:
Attack if using Steyr: [roll0]
Attack 2 if got 20: [roll1]
Attack 3 if got 20 twice: [roll2]

(Don't know how to roll Throwing so do it for me, please)

Damage if Steyr: [roll3]
Damage if Semtex: [roll4]

Spider:
Heal: [roll5]

Maddog:
Attack 1: [roll6]
Attack 2 if got 20: [roll7]
Attack 3 if got 20 twice: [roll8]

Damage: [roll9]


Yeah, dice really HATE me. :smallfrown:

[Tyndmyr]

OOC: Scope is definitely down, yeah, he took more damage than his total, and then an extra attack as gravy. Also, sorry I've been super slow to respond, work has been a little nuts of late.

Len moves to X32, covering his downed buddy with rifle fire at the axe wielder. None of the rounds connect with his flesh, but the sound of gunshots echoing off the trees is impressive. Spider moves to cover his back, at X31, slapping a hasty bandage on him, healing him for [roll0] hp.

Maddog takes a five foot step directly south to S31, then blasts northward with his flamethrower again, catching everything within five feet of the line extending directly north on the *-31 line for 14 damage, DC 15 reflex for half(The Yzobu). In addition, the tree, unable to dodge, takes full damage, and lights fully on fire, rocking back and forth precariously. A few flaming branches fall to the ground, though nobody is under the burning tree at present.

Palanan: Your go!


Edreyn: Yeah, generally picking up weapons eats a move action. So, I'm presuming you want to move there and fire, setting yourself up to grab and attack next turn?

Also, yeah, phew, those rolls are rough. Even adding mods, I think the roller has it out for you. Fortunately, the flamethrower being an area weapon, no attack roll necessary, it's like a fireball, he just saves for half. Unfortunately, they've spread out enough that it's only possible to catch one without dramatically repositioning, needing a climb check, and eating an AoO.

[Edreyn]

Tyndmyr, please, after Palanan makes a move and you write an update, please say how much health everyone has, including damage that was healed. And don't forget to write if my team killed someone at last.

[Palanan]

Reflex Save:
Yzobu vs. dragon-stick: [roll0]

So, it looks like Spider has moved from X25 to X31.

Spider started her round at X25. Both Mott and Wentu’s wolf were occupying squares adjacent to Spider, at X24 and Y24 respectively, so when Spider moves to Len’s side, both Mott and the wolf should get attacks of opportunity.

Attack:
Wolf vs. Spider: [roll1]
damage if successful: [roll2]

Attack:
Mott vs. Spider: [roll3]
damage if successful: [roll4]

Still orbiting at approximately 80 feet, Wentu calls down another lightning bolt, this time on Len. This is the third of the five bolts his spell provides.

Attack:
Call Lightning vs. Len: [roll5]

From Y24, Wentu’s wolf pursues Spider and attacks her from Y30. This is the third of five rounds the wolf will be active.

Attack:
Wolf vs. Spider: [roll6]
damage if successful: [roll7]

Moving to N16, Foerth takes two shots at Len, who is now highly visible atop the rock formation.

Attack:
Foerth vs. Len: [roll8]
Foerth vs. Len: [roll9]

damage if successful (Shot 1): [roll10]
damage if successful (Shot 2): [roll11]

Meanwhile, enraged at being burned by the dragon-stick, the yzobu will lumber straight at Maddog:

Attack:
Yzobu vs. Maddog (gore attack): [roll12]
Yzobu vs. Maddog (armor spikes): [roll13]

damage if successful: gore: [roll14]
damage if successful: armor spikes: [roll15]

From Q28, Il Rob will move to S30 and attack Maddog at S31:

Attack:
Il Rob vs. Maddog: [roll16]
damage if successful: [roll17]

Still invisible at S22, and with no enemies within a 30’ radius, Jevicca channels energy to heal Il Rob:

Channel Energy: [roll18]

Il Rob is healed of 13 points of damage.

From R26, Jevicca’s summoned cheetah will bound up the rock formation and attack Spider from W31. This is the third of five rounds the cheetah will be active.

Attack:
Cheetah vs. Scope: [roll19]
damage if successful: [roll20]

From X24, Mott pursues Spider to X30 and attacks with Spell Combat:

Attack:
Mott vs. Spider: [roll21]
damage if successful: [roll22]

Mott vs. Spider: [roll23]
damage if successful: [roll24]

If Mott’s first attack connects, he will use his Spellstrike ability to channel Frostbite:

damage if successful: [roll25] nonlethal, plus the fatigued condition

And Arundel will keep on scanning in case any other hostiles are sneaking about:

Perception:
Arundel: [roll26]

[Tyndmyr]

Tyndmyr, please, after Palanan makes a move and you write an update, please say how much health everyone has, including damage that was healed. And don't forget to write if my team killed someone at last.

Ah, I'd been assuming that ya'll were largely tracking life totals given damage, but I can probably do some digging. I am confident that nobody on Team Faerun has dropped yet, though.

Palanan, you are correct, I missed those AoOs. As it happens, neither AoO hits, so no change in outcomes, but good catch!

The wolf continues to pursue Spider, snapping at her heels, though she keeps just ahead of it dodging the sharp teeth(it ends in Y30). The archer, Foerth, lands two more arrow shots on Len(38 damage in total). Overwhelmed by the damage, Len falls to the ground, blood pooling around him. The Yzobu lumbers at Maddog from the north, twisting to catch him on his armor spikes(11 damage dealt). Il Rob also pursues Maddog(moves to S30), attacking ineffectually. However, shortly after his attack, his wounds visibly begin to close in some unnatural fashion.

The cheetah also attacks Spider, but appears to have no better luck than the wolf did. Still, as it is now in W31, the area is getting increasingly unfriendly. Last but not least, Mott moves to X30 and his hands and weapon align with arcane energy also attempts to strike Spider, yet misses.

Palanan:

If I'm not mistaken, Spell Combat is a full round action, so it can't be used with a move action. I believe you can cast a single touch attack, but you'll have to choose which of the two you strike. Spellstrike is a seperate ability, and would be a regular attack, not a touch attack, albeit with the weapon damage in addition to spell effects.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
However, shortly after his attack, his wounds visibly begin to close in some unnatural fashion.

Just to clarify, these are the dwarven axe-warrior's wounds that are closing and healing without any apparent cause.


So, in this case I think we’re both right. As I understand it, Spellstrike and Spell Combat can be combined—but not in Mott’s current action, since as you correctly point out Spell Combat is a full-round action, and Mott has already made a move action this round. That was my oversight there.

So, without Spell Combat, Mott will be making a single attack with his regular +9 bonus, and his attack roll on Spider would be 17 all told. If that hits, he’ll be using Spellstrike to channel Frostbite, but I have a feeling a 17 won’t hit Spider, since the wolf isn’t flanking on this round.

[Tyndmyr]

Just to clarify, these are the dwarven axe-warrior's wounds that are closing and healing without any apparent cause.


So, in this case I think we’re both right. As I understand it, Spellstrike and Spell Combat can be combined—but not in Mott’s current action, since as you correctly point out Spell Combat is a full-round action, and Mott has already made a move action this round. That was my oversight there.

So, without Spell Combat, Mott will be making a single attack with his regular +9 bonus, and his attack roll on Spider would be 17 all told. If that hits, he’ll be using Spellstrike to channel Frostbite, but I have a feeling a 17 won’t hit Spider, since the wolf isn’t flanking on this round.

Palanan:

Excellent clarification! Sadly, no hit, though I'll edit the missed attack into the flavor text above.

Edreyn, you're up!

[Edreyn]

Two surviving soldiers continue talking between them.


Maddog: So, this is it then, Spider. Hell, never thought I'll die fighting in a fantasy world!
Spider: Yeah, this is it. Some accursed beasts killed us all. Hope the team that comes after us will have a tank or even better a tactical nuke.
Maddog: We won't see it anyway.
Spider: We are surrounded and outgunned. Come here, Maddog. I will try to detonate Conrad's Semtex. I am done anyway. I'll detonate it just where I am standing and you give burn to those that remain standing after that!
Maddog: See you in whatever comes after, girl!



Spider: X31
Maddog: S31

Len (dead): X32
Scope (dead): N25
Conrad (dead): X32



Spider: 5 feet sidestep to X32. Pickup Semtex and detonate it without throwing.
Now, I don't know if rules allow that, but in real life that would cause to all explosive material in same cell to go boom.
I don't know if you allow it, but my idea is that blast radius will be the same, but the damage will be greater.

Rolls and damage up to you.

Maddog: 5 feet sidestep to T32. Shoot flamethrower to the South, even if Spider is still alive.

Roll isn't required as you said.
Flamethrower damage: [roll0]

[Tyndmyr]

Edreyn:


Rules do indeed allow the use of multiple charges, and, while in real life the radius would probably increase, going strictly by D20M rules, yeah, you get a whole bunch of blast effects within the radius, which is frankly chunky salsa levels at this level. Fun tactic!

I'll resolve all this after I get home from work, because this looks to be fairly interesting.

[Edreyn]

So, what will go boom? All semtex and all grenades of all chars in this point?

[Tyndmyr]

So, what will go boom? All semtex and all grenades of all chars in this point?



I believe that's the case. Honestly, just roll up damage for all of them. Anything within blast radius is probably screwed as even half damage on that much is a ton, but someone could potentially survive with improved evasion or other shenanigans. Helluva way to end it, for sure!


One of the invaders scoops up one of the small packages, makes a final incomprehensible statement, and detonates himself in a firestorm.

(All explosive packs and grenades within radius are triggered as secondary blasts, Edreyn gets to roll damage for them all. This will end the fight, as no further survivors from the Invading team will remain, but damage/saves for the remaining members of Team Faerun may be interesting. )

[Palanan]

Just so I can be ready with the saves, what is the radius in question? I'm assuming this is Maddog doing the immolating.

[Edreyn]

And everything went to fiery hell...


Conrad: I think he used 2 semtex and 2 40mm grenades. If he wasted more, ignore part of rolls.

40 mm grenades x4:
[roll0]
[roll1]
[roll2]
[roll3]

Semtex x2:
[roll4]
[roll5]

Tear gas burnt out I guess, so no rolls.

Spider
Frag grenade x2:
[roll6]
[roll7]

Len
Frag grenade x2:
[roll8]
[roll9]

Maddog (if in radius)
Frag grenade x2:
[roll10]
[roll11]

Flamethrower fuel pack
Wearer: [roll12]
5 feet radius: [roll13]

Scope (if in radius)
Frag grenade x2:
[roll14]
[roll15]



Sorry, but have to update.


Again, about the radius. The case is, that original explosion around Spider, Len and Conrad would also affect Maddog, and his blast might also get Scope's grenades exploded.
I understand that the "mass" of explosives doesn't make radius bigger. But catching another cell with more explosives in the blast, should set them off, causing a chain reaction: new explosion with new radius and so on.

[Palanan]

With Edreyn’s permission, I’ve read through his team’s last move, and this is my best guess at calculating the various blast radii and the damage taken by the closest members of Team Faerun. Here's the gear in play and the save DCs:

40 mm grenade: 10 feet
Semtex: 10 feet
Hand grenade: 20 feet
Fuel tank: 5 feet

40mm Reflex DC 15
Semtex Reflex DC 18
Hand grenade DC 15
Flame tank DC 15


Standing only ten feet from the combined detonation of Spider, Len and Conrad’s gear, Mott takes the full force of the explosion:

Reflex saves:

Mott vs. 40 mm grenade (1): [roll0]
Mott vs. 40 mm grenade (2): [roll1]
Mott vs. 40 mm grenade (3): [roll2]
Mott vs. 40 mm grenade (4): [roll3]

Mott vs. Semtex (1): [roll4]
Mott vs. Semtex (2): [roll5]

Mott vs. hand grenade (1): [roll6]
Mott vs. hand grenade (2): [roll7]
Mott vs. hand grenade (3): [roll8]
Mott vs. hand grenade (4): [roll9]
Mott vs. hand grenade (5): [roll10]
Mott vs. hand grenade (6): [roll11]

Slightly further away, Il Rob and the yzobu are only affected by the grenades on Maddog:

yzobu vs. hand grenade (1): [roll12]
yzobu vs. hand grenade (2): [roll13]

Il Rob vs. hand grenade (1): [roll14]
Il Rob vs. hand grenade (2): [roll15]

Against the 40 mm grenades, with a DC of 15, Mott just barely makes all four saves. Since he has Evasion, he should take no damage from these. He makes one save against Semtex, but takes 6 points of damage from Conrad’s second charge.

Against six hand grenades, he makes four saves, but takes 17 points of damage from the other two. Mott has taken 23 points of damage, but he was able to fling himself down on the snowy rock just in time.

The yzobu also has Evasion, and avoided damage from one of Maddog’s grenades, but took 12 points from Maddog’s second grenade.

As for Il Rob, a dwarf in full plate doesn’t really do Reflex saves, so he takes the full blast of Maddog’s two grenades, for 24 points all told.

This was the first damage Mott has taken, and he still has 22 points remaining. Il Rob is still on his feet, and the yzobu, which had been previously burned once by the flamethrower, is severely injured but not yet dead.

(Tyndmyr, double-check me on all of this, please!)



As for Team Faerun, Wentu sees a gout of flame and a tremendous series of explosions atop the rock formation, flash-melting the snow and leaving an ugly black coating all around. The yzobu gives a wheezing croak and staggers down to collapse in a heap, alive but badly injured, at the base of the burning tree.

As Wentu circles lower, he sees Mott and Il Rob thickly coated in black ash but slowly moving, Mott struggling to rise from where he had flung himself prone, and Il Rob forcing himself up with the long haft of his axe. As Wentu swoops lower, he glimpses small footprints appearing in the snow on the northwestern flank of the rock formation, and a moment later Jevicca appears, head bowed and hand outstretched.

Mott and Il Rob are each healed of 13 points of damage, but they remain wounded; so as Foerth scrambles across the snow to his smoking yzobu, Jevicca bows her head again. Mott and Il Rob are healed an additional 9 points of damage, for 22 points total each. Wentu swoops down to perch on a blackened outcrop, and while Foerth kneels silently beside the yzobu, the other four stand atop the scarred rock formation, staring silent and sombre at the carbonized wreckage of the strange invaders.

_______


If anyone has been following along and has any comments, I'd be interested in their feedback. I was honestly expecting a TPK for Team Faerun, and it's been interesting to see how the two types of combat interact.

.

[Palanan]

Forgot, can't roll in an edited post, so two channels right here:

Channel Energy: [roll0]
Channel Energy: [roll1]

[Tyndmyr]

Usage matches mine, and I believe all those radiuses are accurate per the rulebook.

Very curious to hear ya'lls thoughts on this.

Some observations from me....

1. More PCs vastly increases time to resolve stuff/difficulty of mentally mapping stuff. This was a *lot* harder than anything I'd done online before, and I hadn't really expected this. This probably continues to scale up as more PCs are added, and the idea of actually attempting to map out all the individual stuff for company or larger sized combat is, uh, wow. I don't know how one would actually handle that. I guess that's why wargaming ends up using highly abstracted rules instead of individual models.

2. D&D has access to a *lot* more action economy boosters. Hadn't really considered how much this is the case. Summons are one example, but there's also just more attacks. Only one D20M class gets a full BaB, and it's the melee class. This leads to arrows actually shooting faster than guns. Both sides could have been munchkinned slightly more, but overall, I think this consistently holds true. D20M really doesn't have much in the way of summoning or movement boosters(there's one feat with a per/day limitation and one class feature in Hostage Negotiator, I think that's it) and they both have significant tradeoffs.

3. D&D has significant stealth/observation advantages. You can, technically, locate an invisible person by hearing or what have you, but the modifiers are so large as to be usually impractical.

I would probably quibble with one or two of the D20M rules. A semtex charge probably should do at least some damage beyond ten feet, yknow? Maybe bullets do too little damage relative to arrows? Not having strength added on is a major factor, and it feels counterintuitive for arrows to be both fired more rapidly than bullets and hit harder. Just sort of rolling around the thoughts in my head as they come up.

I'd particularly like feedback on equipment. The wealth system feels...clunky. I'm not sure how to best handle that.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Summons are one example….

Summons were certainly a factor here, since we had two PCs from Team Faerun capable of summoning, and three additional effectives on the field certainly distracted the invaders.

That said, these were some of the least effective summons I’ve ever worked with. I don’t think the cheetah or the wolf ever landed a single hit. In a tabletop environment, they would’ve been tripping for all they were worth, but the delays in posting made that less of an option here.


Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Only one D20M class gets a full BaB, and it's the melee class.

The D20 Modern classes seem barely above NPC classes by 3.5 standards, and they seem to have had significantly fewer hit points. Part of this is D20 Modern showing its age—the core rulebook is apparently from 2002, and I was using Pathfinder characters built with material developed a decade later.

In retrospect it wasn’t an especially even match, since the D20 Modern classes are on a par with 3.0 classes at best. Now I’m wondering if there’s a way to build modern soldiers using Starfinder rules.


Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Maybe bullets do too little damage relative to arrows?

These were unusually heavy hitters compared with ordinary arrows. Gravity Bow increases their damage by one size category, which really adds up, and the ranger had humans as his favored enemy, which really adds up.

I’m not sure what the damage was on the modern weapons in use here, but it should probably be nudged up in line with what we discussed in the original thread. I think we came up with 3d10 per hit from an automatic weapon, plus a bleed effect, which assumes three bullets per hit and feels a little more realistic.

Also, the Channel Energy ability allows your halfling cleric to lurk around invisibly and heal her comrades from a distance, which was another significant advantage. She only used a fraction of the healing she had available.

[Rogan]

If anyone has been following along and has any comments, I'd be interested in their feedback. I was honestly expecting a TPK for Team Faerun, and it's been interesting to see how the two types of combat interact.

.

I was following the battle and will gladly state my opinion.

Two things were already mentioned, summons and healing. Both were a huge advantage for team DND.

An other thing was Intel. Team DnD had flight and invisibility, so they could see without being seen. Using the call lightning spell, they could even deal damage without a real way for team modern to defend themself.

But team DND had even more advantages. I thought the big final would kill everyone in range. Well... evasion made sure, it did not. In general, I had the impression that team DND had much more staying power than team modern. I did not check the character sheets, but it felt like team modern had rather low HP and only very limited chances to recover them. The actions used for healing seemed like a wasted opportunity.

Both the guns and the explosives felt underwhelming. Do you need to hit normal or touch AC with guns? Touch might be more realistic. It would also help migrate the lower BAB.
I don't know much about the modern system. It's there any way for a char build by this rules to gain access to evasion or a similar ability to reduce or avoid damage of an area weapon?

One last thing I'd like to mention:
I felt like team DND was better at focusing fire. A part of this is probably the fact, that they had summons that provided additional targets for the invaders. Another thing was the ability to withdraw from danger (invisibility, flight) so the invaders had to pick other targets instead of killing one enemy at a time.

[Edreyn]

I am still here and will write my own review in a little while, later or today or maybe tomorrow. Just writing this, so you'd know that I do want to share my opinion and not think that I am offended or something.

[Zero Prime]

I'm not certain it's a factor, but, HP has ALWAYS been an abstraction about skill, determination and grit. I forget which edition broke it down so clearly, but it was at one point considered fatigue from blocking a blow, that numbness in your arm as you parry a great sword, etc. The issue is, you can't parry a bullet ...

A round is six seconds, a wizard sees an arrow, lifts their hand makes a series of gestures says an arcane phrase, and the arrow deflects off of his shield. An arrow travels at 225 fps, an assault rifle is somewhere in the vicinity of 3000 fps ... the wizard doesn't even see the bullet before it tears through him.

I'm not sure how to rectify that, firearms do Con- damage? Touch AC, exploding dice?

Anyways, it was an interesting read, but based on the rule sets used it seemed heavily weighted towards Team DND.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Edreyn
Just writing this, so you'd know that I do want to share my opinion and not think that I am offended or something.

Okay, thanks, I'll be looking forward to it.

And thanks to Rogan and Zero Prime for your thoughts as well. It seems pretty clear that D20M isn't the best system for this, so I'm open to thoughts about how else to represent the modern soldiers. Pathfinder has WWI soldiers in one of the APs, so maybe that's a place to start?

[Zero Prime]

While I'm not familiar with the system mechanics, Savage Worlds is a generic d20 system, with rule sets for fantasy and modern genres. So that may be a place to start.

Parhfinder may work, as Gunslingers are a thing, so we know guns target Touch AC and Team Modern world have access to the same feats for comparable static bonuses, and combat maneuvers.

[Tyndmyr]

But team DND had even more advantages. I thought the big final would kill everyone in range. Well... evasion made sure, it did not. In general, I had the impression that team DND had much more staying power than team modern. I did not check the character sheets, but it felt like team modern had rather low HP and only very limited chances to recover them. The actions used for healing seemed like a wasted opportunity.

Healing is *way* harder in D20M, yes. By default, it does 1d4 hp. You can boost it, but by...fairly modest amount. 1-2 hp at a time, and with a tradeoff of spending class levels in pursuit of this.

You can also only be healed once per day, which is quite limiting indeed. It does feel as if this exacerbates the action economy disadvantage.


Both the guns and the explosives felt underwhelming. Do you need to hit normal or touch AC with guns? Touch might be more realistic. It would also help migrate the lower BAB.
I don't know much about the modern system. It's there any way for a char build by this rules to gain access to evasion or a similar ability to reduce or avoid damage of an area weapon?

Modern, by default, fires against normal AC. You *can* get acccess to evasion by going Fast Hero, but it's quite difficult to do otherwise until much higher level. Note that there is no way to do so while retaining full BaB. Fast *is* generally a decently good gunfighter option.

Shooting against touch AC might be a very reasonable house rule, though I think more would be necessary. I'm also not against swapping systems around more, or even some sort of level advantage.

I did expect the explosions to be more lethal. They probably should get at least some buffs. I would expect that many blasts within that close of proximity to be a very, very bad day in any sort of realistic representation.


One last thing I'd like to mention:
I felt like team DND was better at focusing fire. A part of this is probably the fact, that they had summons that provided additional targets for the invaders. Another thing was the ability to withdraw from danger (invisibility, flight) so the invaders had to pick other targets instead of killing one enemy at a time.

I did feel as if that's the case, the stealth/target number advantages ended up allowing far, far better fire focusing. Not a strategic mistake on Edreyn's part, I believe...he was working with what information he had, and in some cases, he just really had no viable method, even with luck, to detect sufficiently stealthy/distant characters.



The D20 Modern classes seem barely above NPC classes by 3.5 standards, and they seem to have had significantly fewer hit points. Part of this is D20 Modern showing its age—the core rulebook is apparently from 2002, and I was using Pathfinder characters built with material developed a decade later.

In retrospect it wasn’t an especially even match, since the D20 Modern classes are on a par with 3.0 classes at best. Now I’m wondering if there’s a way to build modern soldiers using Starfinder rules.

I suppose that's why we're testing, but yeah, D20M does have some disadvantages I hadn't fully reckoned with, including the lesser HP.

There *are* autofire options in D20M, but they're not amazing. Mostly, they expend a bunch of ammo to basically do an area attack, with a reflex dc to avoid. It's not the worst mechanic ever, but I feel as if the numbers would need to be bumped up, both for DC and damage. It feels as if a 15 DC is just easier to hit in 3.5/PF than in D20M.

But if there's an edge that team modern should have, I feel it's that their weapons should be particularly hard hitting.

Looking forward to reading the rest!

[Edreyn]

Hello there, I am here just as promised.
First, thank you both Tyndmyr and Palanan for a great game. Even that I lost, I still really enjoyed it.

Now, the feedback.
First feedback is about myself. Honestly, I always was quite weak in PVP games, both tabletop and computer RPGs. I often do mistakes. My first plan was to sit tight in starting area, to place mines on ice and fight on my own terms. But, yeah, I thought then both me and my rival will sit like that forever and decided to push on, just that game won't be boring. But again, I prefer the game to be interesting, even that I lost.

Feedback of Palanan. You played really good. You made a party of druids and other spellcasters as I understand. Large number of summoned creatures gave you a great advantage over my team. I didn't find any critical errors from your side.

Feedback of Tyndmyr. What really bothered me, is the lack of updates about positions and HP from you as DM. Please don't get offended, but updating the map, and watching characters HP is a part of DM responsibility. It's really not easy to make decisions when there is no full information. Also, I want to suggest something for your other games. When my characters saw an owl, it wasn't hard to guess that it's a druid, a familiar or a summoned creature. Because you didn't describe any other animals or birds in the vicinity, and since we were in a forest, anyone would expect to see those. If you would place some neutral forest creatures, it would take me a longer time to guess which of them are neutral and which are enemies.

Now the system. What I really find weird, is the huge difference of HP between mine and Palanan's characters. Each from my team had about 25 HP. And the simultaneous attack of three or more creatures made a guaranteed death of each. I think fantasy team had much more - the axe guy withstood a huge damage and even survived the last explosion. As for weapons, while guns offered a large damage of 3d6, explosions really were much weaker then I expected. It isn't really logical, that the final explosion didn't destroy an entire forest. And I'd also expect that using a modern weapon is easier then a bow, but they still have the same chance to hit.

I also must admit, that dice were really bad for me. All attacks with Steyr missed, so the potential 3d6 went to nothing. Only flamethrower did a solid damage, but again, since axe-guy had so much HP it didn't help.

Well, to summarize, I admit that I am a weak player, I do really. But the system, yeah, it can be good on it's own, but not that good against a much better detailed standard DnD 3.5.

[Palanan]

Hey there, thanks for your thoughts on this.


Originally Posted by Edreyn
You played really good. You made a party of druids and other spellcasters as I understand.

Thanks for the kind words. My party was as follows:

dwarven fighter 5
human ranger 5
halfing druid 5
halfling cleric 5
human magus 5

The cleric was specialized for healing and summoning (nature cleric), so she stayed invisible and limited herself to that role. The magus tried to cast spells a couple of times, but I’m not versed in the magus’ mechanics so didn’t play him very effectively...and the fighter just couldn’t seem to hit anything. The druid and the ranger ended up doing most of the damage, with lightning and arrows respectively.


Originally Posted by Edreyn
What really bothered me, is the lack of updates about positions and HP from you as DM. Please don't get offended, but updating the map, and watching characters HP is a part of DM responsibility.

As far as the map, I was expecting that we’d see updates to the posted map once the two sides engaged. But after doing several maps myself, I can vouch for just how tricky and time-consuming that can be. Something like Roll20 or another VTT would probably be a smoother option—if nothing else, by moving tokens in that environment and then posting screenshots in the thread. But uncovering this sort of logistical issue was part of the purpose of this encounter.


Originally Posted by Edreyn
What I really find weird, is the huge difference of HP between mine and Palanan's characters. Each from my team had about 25 HP.

The asymmetry in hit points is a huge issue. Most of my characters averaged about 40-45 hp, and the dwarven axe warrior was built to be a tank with 72 hp.

I realized once we started landing hits that the modern team had fewer hp apiece, but I was guessing in the mid-30s, and I’m really surprised they were only in the 25 hp range. That imbalance definitely needs to be addressed.


Originally Posted by Edreyn
As for weapons, while guns offered a large damage of 3d6, explosions really were much weaker then I expected.

3d6 seems a little on the light side for automatic weapons, and I personally think 3d10 is a more reasonable value. As for the explosions, I agree they seemed relatively weak and limited. I don’t know enough about grenades and Semtex to suggest better values, but it might be worth adapting some of the explosives from D&D 3.5.

For instance, the Magic Item Compendium has the blast disk and blast globes (p. 152), which are roughly similar to mines and grenades. The blast disk deals 5d6 fire damage in a 10-foot radius, and it triggers on a creature entering its square. The blast globes can be launched at a point up to 400 feet away, dealing 10d6 points of fire and 2d6 points of sonic. Those values might be a starting point for emulating grenades and explosives.

[Edreyn]

So, what now? Palanan, are you interested in another match, with now me playing a fantasy squad and you the modern? I want to find out if it's me such a noob, or the system is really worse.

[Palanan]

I'm definitely interested in a rematch, although I'd prefer to play the fantasy side again, with a different set of characters.

However, I'm pretty sure that it wasn't your playing at fault, just the differences in the two systems. I'm looking into how to build a squad of modern soldiers in Pathfinder, with hit points and weapon damage more in line with Pathfinder characters. If we can work up a Pathfinder version of the modern soldiers, would you be willing to play them again?

[Edreyn]

I didn't know there is a Pathfinder version adapted for modern chars. But I'd enjoy playing again, with this or any other system. But I don't know if Tyndmyr also will agree to DM again.

[Tyndmyr]

I didn't know there is a Pathfinder version adapted for modern chars. But I'd enjoy playing again, with this or any other system. But I don't know if Tyndmyr also will agree to DM again.

I would cheerfully DM again, though I caution that my free time hasn't really improved, so the pace would probably be about similar. That said, ya'll shifting to basically turn based initiative did help quite a bit. I am quite certain that the systemic difference are the main decider here. The strategies employed on both sides certainly seemed reasonable enough to me, I wouldn't expect such a one sided outcome.


If you would place some neutral forest creatures, it would take me a longer time to guess which of them are neutral and which are enemies.

I'd actually considered this and made a hidden roll for it, but...not a *ton* of creatures in the arctic, so I gave it relatively low odds, and nothing had shown up by the time the owl did. That, together with the daytime thing did make it stand out, so I wasn't surprised that you opted to shoot it, and honestly didn't find that unrealistic. There's definitely some criteria for animals acting odd that's going to result in shooting, and the bar for that seemed fair.


Now the system. What I really find weird, is the huge difference of HP between mine and Palanan's characters. Each from my team had about 25 HP. And the simultaneous attack of three or more creatures made a guaranteed death of each. I think fantasy team had much more - the axe guy withstood a huge damage and even survived the last explosion. As for weapons, while guns offered a large damage of 3d6, explosions really were much weaker then I expected. It isn't really logical, that the final explosion didn't destroy an entire forest. And I'd also expect that using a modern weapon is easier then a bow, but they still have the same chance to hit.

There were of course some unlucky rolls, but yeah...that does seem quite low. Granted, only level 5, and if you're not stacking con, it's possible to end up quite low hp in D20M. That and the other factors(BaB, etc) was one of the reasons I thought that adding more levels to the D20M side might help. It's possible to stack hp or armor in D20M, but it's difficult to do both.

I agree that pretty much all weapons could use at *least* another damage die assigned as a base, and some blast radiuses might need to be increased. I would not want to be standing within about thirty feet of a large demolition charge, and would assume that FAR further would be necessary to actually be safe.

I'm also interested in your opinion on gear...since you had to use the wealth system, did you find it at all useful, or would it be better to scrap it entirely and restrict in some other fashion?

I would not be averse to drawing up custom stats for explosives and guns wholesale based on D&D. I also think we should boost the D20M healing action significantly. 1d4 is just rough. 1d12+wis modifier seem more viable?

The point about maps and such is a good one, and I'd like to find a good solution for handling mapping. Photoshop is certainly capable, but it eats a lot of time. I'm also not extremely proficient with it, which probably doesn't help much.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
That and the other factors(BaB, etc) was one of the reasons I thought that adding more levels to the D20M side might help. It's possible to stack hp or armor in D20M, but it's difficult to do both.

Rather than trying to shore up D20M, I’m thinking we could try building the soldiers in Pathfinder. The fighter class should work well enough for this, since it gets plenty of feats and hit points, and Pathfinder has a number of feats which would apply to firearms.


Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
I would not be averse to drawing up custom stats for explosives and guns wholesale based on D&D.

As it happens, I’m working on just this. But I’m not that familiar with the weapons involved, so I wouldn’t mind your feedback on a few of these:

1. M4 carbine:

In the original thread we came up with 3d10 plus a bleed effect for an automatic rifle, based on a three-round burst. It’s listed with a 500 m effective range, which works out to about 1640 feet, but I’m thinking something like a 200-foot range increment might be more realistic.

2. M69 grenade:

Based on what I can find, I’d say the damage should be 4d6 within a 15’ radius, then 2d6 from 15-45’. Range increment: 60’.

3. M110 SASS sniper rifle:

The effective range works out to roughly 2625 feet, and I’d say that firing one is a full-round action. Not sure what the damage should be, but probably around 2d10 or 3d10.

4. Beretta M9:

This seems to be standard issue, but I don’t have any sense of what its damage and range increment should be.

5. M203 under-barrel grenade launcher:

Should take one round to fire and one round to reload. Effective range out to several hundred feet, with the caveat that it shouldn’t be fired at a target within 100 feet, to reduce risk of injury to the grenadier. Also not recommended to fire in a forested environment, owing to the risk of reflecting shrapnel.

[Tyndmyr]

Rather than trying to shore up D20M, I’m thinking we could try building the soldiers in Pathfinder. The fighter class should work well enough for this, since it gets plenty of feats and hit points, and Pathfinder has a number of feats which would apply to firearms.



As it happens, I’m working on just this. But I’m not that familiar with the weapons involved, so I wouldn’t mind your feedback on a few of these:

1. M4 carbine:

In the original thread we came up with 3d10 plus a bleed effect for an automatic rifle, based on a three-round burst. It’s listed with a 500 m effective range, which works out to about 1640 feet, but I’m thinking something like a 200-foot range increment might be more realistic.

2. M69 grenade:

Based on what I can find, I’d say the damage should be 4d6 within a 15’ radius, then 2d6 from 15-45’. Range increment: 60’.

3. M110 SASS sniper rifle:

The effective range works out to roughly 2625 feet, and I’d say that firing one is a full-round action. Not sure what the damage should be, but probably around 2d10 or 3d10.

4. Beretta M9:

This seems to be standard issue, but I don’t have any sense of what its damage and range increment should be.

5. M203 under-barrel grenade launcher:

Should take one round to fire and one round to reload. Effective range out to several hundred feet, with the caveat that it shouldn’t be fired at a target within 100 feet, to reduce risk of injury to the grenadier. Also not recommended to fire in a forested environment, owing to the risk of reflecting shrapnel.

M4 sounds about right. Sniper rifle should have greater damage than the M4, because the round is larger, but no autofire option. We probably should make autofire a little more viable in general. Probably a higher DC? Grenade also seems about right. 500 foot range increment for the sniper rifle is probably good. It's a -2 for each incremental range increment beyond the first, if memory serves. I could also see an argument for 400ft, but in practice, it is unlikely to matter in D20/D&D, as spotting people at extreme ranges is fairly hard to do non magically.

The M9 is 9mm, which I believe D20M abstracts to 2d6. I'd make a case for 3d6, I think. Oddly, the unified damage per caliber isn't as realistic as one would think. The same round out of a rifle/carbine can be moving up to 25% faster than if fired from a pistol. So, that provides some realism to go with the gameplay mechanism of less damage for pistols(though they can be dual wielded). Range increment for all pistols is probably fairly short. 50 feet at most, as there is a significant difference in difficulty at shooting someone up close and quite a ways off with a handgun.

Grenade launcher seems like it ought to be loaded and fired within six seconds. It's definitely doable in perhaps half that time if someone is proficient and moving fast, but 1 shot per six seconds is a decent enough abstraction to consider aiming and such. The explosive round doesn't need to strictly match the handgrenade, though, because they are generally different sorts of weapons. Gas rounds and such are available, but are honestly fairly underwhelming. Anyone even vaguely interested in minmaxing is probably focusing on the explosive rounds. Range increment probably no more than 200 feet, and I could easily see going lower. They don't really make it to 1000 feet in terms of effective range, even if lofting the rounds, and since the arc is so high, there's a fair bit of angle even for relatively short shots. So, balance wise, it's easy to justify a less potent damage and shorter range.

Light mortars fit more into what I'd picture a 1 round to load, 1 round to fire to be(thus resulting in two man mortar teams if you want to optimize, approximating real life).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Sniper rifle should have greater damage than the M4, because the round is larger, but no autofire option.

Okay, would you say 4d10 for the sniper rifle, with a full-round action to aim and fire? And how many shots before you need to reload?


Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
The M9 is 9mm, which I believe D20M abstracts to 2d6. I'd make a case for 3d6, I think.

So, 3d6 damage with a range increment of 50 feet, sounds good.


Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Grenade launcher seems like it ought to be loaded and fired within six seconds. It's definitely doable in perhaps half that time if someone is proficient and moving fast….

According to what I found here (https://old.weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/BB02%20-%20M203.html), a skilled grenadier can fire about 6 shots per minute, which is one shot every ten seconds. Standard D&D round is six seconds, so it seems closer to the real-world time to require two rounds, one for loading and one for firing.


Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Gas rounds and such are available, but are honestly fairly underwhelming.

One interesting option is the so-called smart grenade (https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2015/01/10/army-smart-grenades-can-sense-walls/), designed to explode immediately after it passes over the enemy's cover.


Originally Posted by Tyndmyr
Light mortars fit more into what I'd picture a 1 round to load, 1 round to fire to be(thus resulting in two man mortar teams if you want to optimize, approximating real life).

I don’t have any sense for how mortars operate. Are they usually carried at the squad level?

[Metastachydium]

(Have you considered light or general purpose machine guns? A rifle team may plausibly carry one, it has superior effective range and deals more damage (through fully automatic fire), which can be balanced by the fact that one can't just run around with it, since it's heavy and best fired from a bipod?)

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Metastachydium
Have you considered light or general purpose machine guns? A rifle team may plausibly carry one, it has superior effective range and deals more damage (through fully automatic fire), which can be balanced by the fact that one can't just run around with it, since it's heavy and best fired from a bipod?

Can you suggest one that would be appropriate? As up-to-date as possible?



Also, I’m very glad you posted, because I've been meaning to PM you about your interest in a monotypic genus of central Asian wildflowers. :smallsmile:

[Metastachydium]

Can you suggest one that would be appropriate? As up-to-date as possible?

US forces currently use M249 and M240, the Bundeswehr has H&K MG4 and H&K MG5 guns, and the French stick to their Belgian stuff, FN Minimi and FN MAG. Then we have the Russian RPK 74M and PKP Pecheneg. Only the H&Ks and the Pecheneg are 21st century designs, though.


Also, I’m very glad you posted, because I've been meaning to PM you about your interest in a monotypic genus of central Asian wildflowers. :smallsmile:

Yeah, it was supposed to be the much less exotic Mesembryanthemum, but that one was a bit too long for the site, so I picked something shorter. I'm happy with it, nevertheless: I happen to like labiates quite a lot (I have a friendly little coleus at home), and people shorten it to Meta which sounds almost as cool as the long version.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Metastachydium
US forces currently use M249 and M240….

Looking at the M249, I’m thinking the damage could be around 5d10. Apparently it can fire 100 rounds per minute, which is 10 per game round. Assuming the weapon’s kick prevents every bullet from landing, 5d10 seems like a reasonable compromise.

Range of approximately 2300 feet, with a maximum range out to nearly 12,000 feet (!), no idea what the range increment should be. It’s mentioned as being cumbersome, so I’d say it needs to be fired as a full-round action using the bipod. Does that sound about right?

[Metastachydium]

Looking at the M249, I’m thinking the damage could be around 5d10. Apparently it can fire 100 rounds per minute, which is 10 per game round. Assuming the weapon’s kick prevents every bullet from landing, 5d10 seems like a reasonable compromise.

Range of approximately 2300 feet, with a maximum range out to nearly 12,000 feet (!), no idea what the range increment should be.

If the M4 gets 200 ft., I'd give this an increment of 300.


It’s mentioned as being cumbersome, so I’d say it needs to be fired as a full-round action using the bipod. Does that sound about right?

Yup. One either moves or uses it, but doing both in the same round does not sound even remotely reasonable.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Metastachydium
One either moves or uses it, but doing both in the same round does not sound even remotely reasonable.

Okay, thanks.

How about setup? Is it reasonable to require a full-round action to set it in position, extend the bipod, and do whatever else needs to be done before firing?

[Metastachydium]

How about setup? Is it reasonable to require a full-round action to set it in position, extend the bipod, and do whatever else needs to be done before firing?

I think I'd go with another yes. Setting it up easily takes 6 seconds.

[Palanan]

Excellent, thanks.

So, for the M249 SAW, it looks like we have a range increment of 300’, damage 5d10, full-round action to fire, and a full-round action to set up before firing.

From what I can gather, it looks like 600 rounds is the limit before it needs to be reloaded. Firing 100 rounds per minute means 6 minutes of constant firing before a reload, which should cover most encounters. But if it does need a reload, how long should that take?

Also, can the weapon sustain several minutes of constant firing without jamming? Maybe a 5% cumulative chance of a jam for each minute of firing?

[Metastachydium]

From what I can gather, it looks like 600 rounds is the limit before it needs to be reloaded.

I think it's more like 200.


if it does need a reload, how long should that take?

Logically, it would probably be another full-round action. That being said, I'm not absolutely certain that if everything about operating the gun is a full-round action, using it does not become more bother than it's worth.


Maybe a 5% cumulative chance of a jam for each minute of firing?

Agreed, as long as replacing the barrel with a fresh one (as a full-round action) is an option.

[Palanan]

Okay, thanks. I'm completely unfamiliar with this weapon, so I'm just guessing based on stray factoids I can find. I've seen both 200- and 600-round limits quoted, as well as an option for M16 magazines (which is apparently a last resort and rarely used).

So, very glad for the input. A 200-round drum seems reasonable, since that's still 2 minutes of sustained fire.

[Tyndmyr]

Okay, would you say 4d10 for the sniper rifle, with a full-round action to aim and fire? And how many shots before you need to reload?

So, sniper rifles are...strange, in that they don't fully translate well to the D&D esque series of attacks. Full round action is, while not ideal, probably decent from a gameplay perspective. They get more accurate, not more lethal. A .30 round fired by a sniper isn't going to make a deeper hole that one fired from a machine gun, it's just more accurate.

This is currently handled by feats in D20M that offer accuracy in return for the shot, though they are fairly unimpressive, and could stand to have fatter numbers.

10 round magazine is pretty common in sniper rifles, though there's wide variation depending on models. Honestly, in a five on five skirmish, reloading is unlikely to make a significant impact save for single round weapons like rocket/grenade launchers. Swapping mags on a bolt action rifle isn't usually any different from anything else, so it probably doesn't need anything special.


According to what I found here (https://old.weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/BB02%20-%20M203.html), a skilled grenadier can fire about 6 shots per minute, which is one shot every ten seconds. Standard D&D round is six seconds, so it seems closer to the real-world time to require two rounds, one for loading and one for firing.

That seems a shade slow, but but it's probably close enough to justify if it's


One interesting option is the so-called smart grenade (https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2015/01/10/army-smart-grenades-can-sense-walls/), designed to explode immediately after it passes over the enemy's cover.

There's a lot of wild tech that's been experimentally issued, but that kind of stuff is pretty uncommon. That kind of stuff is generally not available. Supply chains change exceedingly slowly, with most platforms lasting for many decades.


I don’t have any sense for how mortars operate. Are they usually carried at the squad level?

Depends on what sort of squad and what the role is. For instance, in WW2, the Japanese army used light mortars on a squad level, which worked really well in many of the circumstances where they fought. It's not universal, though.

*most* people just have a rifle, maybe a pistol as a sidearm, with perhaps a couple of specialists. Machine gunner is probably the most common specialist, but marksmen, flamethrowers, explosive folks, all possible. I also wouldn't rule out things like a humvee, which could totally be a reasonable option for a squad deployment, depending on what they're doing. Five is honestly a fairly light patrol to send entirely solo into another world, so that's sort of a conceit for testing.

Mortars are light, localized artillery support. If carried individually like this, ammunition would be limited, and usually a second person helps out as a result. It doesn't have the range of bigger artillery, but it has a high arc, and the boom's a bit bigger than a grenade. You generally wouldn't run both a grenadier and a mortar team, because the roles are too similar.


US forces currently use M249 and M240, the Bundeswehr has H&K MG4 and H&K MG5 guns, and the French stick to their Belgian stuff, FN Minimi and FN MAG. Then we have the Russian RPK 74M and PKP Pecheneg. Only the H&Ks and the Pecheneg are 21st century designs, though.

All of those seem like valid options, depending on the force employed. The autofire rules mostly cover this, but probably could use a wee bit of upgrading. If memory serves, there's a static DC to dodge, which scales poorly, and seems like dex bonus or something should be added to this. Otherwise, it'll eventually be mostly irrelevant at higher levels.


Looking at the M249, I’m thinking the damage could be around 5d10. Apparently it can fire 100 rounds per minute, which is 10 per game round. Assuming the weapon’s kick prevents every bullet from landing, 5d10 seems like a reasonable compromise.

Range of approximately 2300 feet, with a maximum range out to nearly 12,000 feet (!), no idea what the range increment should be. It’s mentioned as being cumbersome, so I’d say it needs to be fired as a full-round action using the bipod. Does that sound about right?

Realistically, a hit from that ought to do as much damage as a hit from a 5.56 carbine. It's the same caliber being fired from a pretty similarly length barrel. The difference is solely rate of fire.

They can absolutely be fired without utilizing the bipod, though they are a good deal less accurate when not set up. To some extent, D20M stances are meant to help with this, with prone providing a significant boost to accuracy with ranged weapons. This is...a decent approximation. Not perfect, but feh. Only being able to take five foot move actions while firing seems reasonable, though. Running and gunning is...not really reasonable.

It will take more weight, especially with the ammo, though I would not expect that to matter much for a 5v5. Reloading taking a full round seems reasonable, and I could even accept two as an abstraction, because sometimes you need to change barrel, etc. That said, deeply unlikely to matter for this test.

As a note, you can totally still fire single rounds from slow firing machine guns, and they will be pretty decently accurate. The fire modes of D20M are kind of reasonable in principle as a result. The magazines being interoperable works both ways. You can totally slap a drum on a regular rifle too(and I do sometimes run a hundred round drum on my AR). There's pros and cons, but honestly, probably too far into the weeds for a skirmish.

While a small chance of jamming is realistic, it is probably a bother from a gameplay perspective. Slight tension there between fast resolution and accuracy, since it adds another rolling step.