Type-restricted templates and type change?

[H_H_F_F]

This may be an obvious question.

If a creature has a template which only applies to certain types (any living creature, any non-humanoid, etc) and they change type to one which isn't included, is the template gone?

Thanks!

[Drelua]

Not sure if the rules would back this up or not, but I would argue no, the template stays, because "can be applied to" isn't the same as pre-reqs. It's not a thing you select, like a feat or a prestige class, but a thing that can happen to you/a way you might be born. More like being targeted with a spell. Flesh to Stone doesn't care if you're still a viable target after the spell takes effect. So rules about losing pre-reqs shouldn't apply.

Of course, the strictest RAW cares not for things like 'being reasonable' and 'making sense.'

[Venger]

Yes, that is correct. Is there a specific interaction of template/type change you're wondering about?

[H_H_F_F]

There are a few. They aren't for undead, and I was wondering what would happen to someone with those templates who became undead.

[Doctor Despair]

There are a few. They aren't for undead, and I was wondering what would happen to someone with those templates who became undead.

I'd think you'd keep it, or else any template that changes your type would cause itself to disappear (see Necropolitan, which can only apply to humanoids and monstrous humanoids, but makes you undead).

[H_H_F_F]

Hmmm. So, is there no clear RAW source on the subject?

[Venger]

There is. You keep it. You only need to qualify for the template when you take it.

[H_H_F_F]

Oh. I misunderstood your first messege, Venger. Thanks!

[KillianHawkeye]

There are no rules for losing a template except maybe specific ones that can be "cured" (i.e., lycanthropy), or being brought back to life after being an undead.

[Falontani]

On a related note, there are a few templates that I am actually looking at that specify they change the creature's type, but say nothing of subtype. Most of the templates that I am concerned about are 3.0 templates that weren't explicitly updated to 3.5 except through the update booklet. If a template changes a creature's type but doesn't say anything about the creature's subtype, does the creature lose the subtype, or is it case by case?

[Doctor Despair]

On a related note, there are a few templates that I am actually looking at that specify they change the creature's type, but say nothing of subtype. Most of the templates that I am concerned about are 3.0 templates that weren't explicitly updated to 3.5 except through the update booklet. If a template changes a creature's type but doesn't say anything about the creature's subtype, does the creature lose the subtype, or is it case by case?

Iirc creatures can have any number of subtypes, so you'd retain the old ones you had (and gain the augmented subtype if your type changed).

[Drelua]

Iirc creatures can have any number of subtypes, so you'd retain the old ones you had (and gain the augmented subtype if your type changed).

Yeah, your memory's good. That's what the augmented subtype says on the srd (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm):


Augmented Subtype

A creature receives this subtype whenever something happens to change its original type. Some creatures (those with an inherited template) are born with this subtype; others acquire it when they take on an acquired template. The augmented subtype is always paired with the creature’s original type. A creature with the augmented subtype usually has the traits of its current type, but the features of its original type.

'Features' is just racial Hit Dice, BAB, base saves, and skill points per HD. So if your race doesn't come with HD, the features don't do anything. So for example a fiendish wolf would be a magical beast (augmented animal), but its wolf hit dice should stay as d8s, not d10s like magical beasts would have.

[Jack_Simth]

Hmmm. So, is there no clear RAW source on the subject?
Here you go: Adding More Than One Template (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#addingMoreThanOneTemplate)

In theory, there’s no limit to the number of templates you can add to a creature. To add more than one template, just apply each template one at a time. Always apply inherited templates before applying acquired templates. Whenever you add multiple templates, pay attention to the creature’s type—you may add a template that makes the creature ineligible for other templates you might want to add. (Emphasis added)