Can you see normally while using Arcane Eye?

[BarneyBent]

My character has just cast Arcane Eye and is scouting out a dungeon. However, we are likely to need to move within the hour. Can I, while still scouting using Arcane Eye, continue to see and operate normally?

The relevant text reads: "You mentally receive visual information from the eye". Compare this to the wording from Scrying, for example, which says, "You can see and hear through the sensor as if you were there." Or Clairvoyance, which is a little less direct but specifically calls out seeing through the sensor.

The key question is - when you use Arcane Eye, are you sacrificing your sight to see through the eye? Or does the eye do the seeing, and the relevant information is sent to you (I imagine in your mind's eye - you learn what's there even though you don't see it yourself).

I'm leaning towards the latter, particularly given that the Arcane Eye has its own vision and darkvision instead of using your own, but would love some other views.

[MaxWilson]

I'm with you on the "mind's eye" thing: you can see both, although you can't necessarily pay equal attention to both.

[Segev]

It doesn’t say you lose access to your own senses, while the familiar mechanics do say you lose access to the relevant senses.

[Sigreid]

I think it would be a fair DM ruling to give you disadvantage on perception checks for the set of senses you aren't currently focusing on.

[Valmark]

A feature would say so if it stopped you from seeing normally so Arcane Eye doesn't.

[Thunderous Mojo]

although you can't necessarily pay equal attention to both.


I think it would be a fair DM ruling to give you disadvantage on perception checks for the set of senses you aren't currently focusing on.

Arcane Eye requires Concentration. That is the whole sticht of Concentration, it signifies when a creature is doing one thing, but also paying attention to something else. 😀

Should any application of Concentration also apply Disadvantage to all Perception checks, not just Arcane Eye?

The above is an example of a type of ruling that is adding text to a spell, that is not in the actual text of the spell itself.

Arcane Eye is a fourth level spell...frankly it should probably incorporate some sort of X-Ray vision to justify the level for the effect, (or just please old grognards).....please don't make the spell now give blurry vision for what is spelled out as a mental effect.

[Segev]

Arcane Eye requires Concentration. That is the whole sticht of Concentration, it signifies when a creature is doing one thing, but also paying attention to something else. 😀

Should any application of Concentration also apply Disadvantage to all Perception checks, not just Arcane Eye?

The above is an example of a type of ruling that is adding text to a spell, that is not in the actual text of the spell itself.

Arcane Eye is a fourth level spell...frankly it should probably incorporate some sort of X-Ray vision to justify the level for the effect, (or just please old grognards).....please don't make the spell now give blurry vision for what is spelled out as a mental effect.

I can certainly understand no penalties being given, but I think the idea behind the Disadvantage is more that you're not paying attention "here" when you're looking around "there." Not that vision goes blurry. It's like trying to have a conversation while a TV show is playing; you're probably missing stuff in one of them.

But it is also a 4th level spell, so yes, I understand not giving that penalty, as well.

[Sigreid]

Arcane Eye requires Concentration. That is the whole sticht of Concentration, it signifies when a creature is doing one thing, but also paying attention to something else. 😀

Should any application of Concentration also apply Disadvantage to all Perception checks, not just Arcane Eye?

The above is an example of a type of ruling that is adding text to a spell, that is not in the actual text of the spell itself.

Arcane Eye is a fourth level spell...frankly it should probably incorporate some sort of X-Ray vision to justify the level for the effect, (or just please old grognards).....please don't make the spell now give blurry vision for what is spelled out as a mental effect.

Having perception checks in two locations, with one of them being at a disadvantage, to me, is very fair. Have you ever been focusing your attention on something and completely missed big things going on around you? I have.

[Thunderous Mojo]

Have you ever been focusing your attention on something and completely missed big things going on around you? I have.

Do you cast Fourth level spells? Have you spent years disciplining your mind so you can maintain your control over one thread of magic via Concentration, whilst simultaneously being able to actively manipulate magic with the rest of your mental attention?

You are presenting a magical version of "guy at the gym".

I'm sure someone that routinely practices counting cards, is more than capable of keeping two separate things in mind, without getting distracted.

More importantly though, I will repeat my plea to not rule the way you are advocating by presenting these facts:

1) Arcane Eye requires Concentration.
2) Arcane Eye requires an Action to move it 30'.

Layering on Disadvantage to Perception checks will result in the spell just not being used by the players....how is that "fair"?

Do you ad the same ad hoc adjustment to the Clairvoyance spell or just Arcane Eye?

[JackPhoenix]

Layering on Disadvantage to Perception checks will result in the spell just not being used by the players....how is that "fair"?

It's not fair, and it's not true. How often do you actually need to make Perception checks at both location to make the disadvantage matter?

And it's not "adding text to the spell". It's perfectly in-line with how ability checks work, just like you have disadvantage on Perception when you're traveling at fast pace, or guards have disadvantage on Perception when they are distracted by other activities.

[Thunderous Mojo]

If you are not moving Arcane Eye, the spell is essentially Clairvoyance w/o the option for sound.

An Arcane Eye sees in all directions and transmits the images to you mentally.
This makes a stationary Arcane Eye a good sensor to guard your back....presuming your DM isn't adding Ad Hoc nerfs to the spell.... just because they can.

(Mankind has never lacked for justifications for it's actions. Our justifications usually make "sense" to ourselves).



Are Clairvoyance or other Concentration spells also getting Disadvantage to checks?

I'm sorry, but in 5e a PC can, move, attack, move some more, chew some gum as a free object interaction, and attack again....all without penalty to their Passive Perception.....yet somehow Arcane Eye warrants an extra penalty despite costing Concentration and one's Action (if the caster wants to move it)?.................
......
......

.......This baffles me⁉️

[Segev]

If you are not moving Arcane Eye, the spell is essentially Clairvoyance w/o the option for sound.

An Arcane Eye sees in all directions and transmits the images to you mentally.
This makes a stationary Arcane Eye a good sensor to guard your back....presuming your DM isn't adding Ad Hoc nerfs to the spell.... just because they can.

(Mankind has never lacked for justifications for it's actions. Our justifications usually make "sense" to ourselves).



Are Clairvoyance or other Concentration spells also getting Disadvantage to checks?

I'm sorry, but in 5e a PC can, move, attack, move some more, chew some gum as a free object interaction, and attack again....all without penalty to their Passive Perception.....yet somehow Arcane Eye warrants an extra penalty despite costing Concentration and one's Action (if the caster wants to move it)?.................
......
......

.......This baffles me⁉️

Actually, no, he can in fact have penalty to passive perception while doing all of that if the DM decides he does. I have had plenty of DMs in every edition who will determine that no, you don't get passive perception at non-penalty while focusing on combat.

I assume that any DM who is assigning disadvantage to one or the other of your perceptions with arcane eye likely is doing the same with clairvoyance.

[Sigreid]

Do you cast Fourth level spells? Have you spent years disciplining your mind so you can maintain your control over one thread of magic via Concentration, whilst simultaneously being able to actively manipulate magic with the rest of your mental attention?

You are presenting a magical version of "guy at the gym".

I'm sure someone that routinely practices counting cards, is more than capable of keeping two separate things in mind, without getting distracted.

More importantly though, I will repeat my plea to not rule the way you are advocating by presenting these facts:

1) Arcane Eye requires Concentration.
2) Arcane Eye requires an Action to move it 30'.

Layering on Disadvantage to Perception checks will result in the spell just not being used by the players....how is that "fair"?

Do you ad the same ad hoc adjustment to the Clairvoyance spell or just Arcane Eye?

Not sure, but I think you may have misunderstood. You wouldn't be at disadvantage on both perception checks, just the one that your attention isn't focused on. Also, I did clearly identify it as what I consider a fair ruling by a DM. I never said it was RAW or RAI.

[Thunderous Mojo]

Actually, no, he can in fact have penalty to passive perception while doing all of that if the DM decides he does .

Restraint is the most powerful super power. Everyone is responding by saying
"Yes, a DM can do this (disadvantage)"

That has never been in dispute. What I have asked, from my first post is:
Should a DM place Disadvantage on Perception checks due to having Arcane Eye active?

To date, a credible defense of this ad hoc decision has not been made.

1) Arcane Eye certainly does not need to be balanced by penalizing the very thing the spell is meant to facilitate.

2) Verisimilitude...while it might feel appropriate to penalize the character with Arcane Eye active, because chewing gum and walking is hard.....but what fun is being promoted here?

An Imp with AC13 and 13 HP, via FF, is a viable Tier 4 scout....(it is not), but a 4th level spell, (one of a maximum of three, 4th level spell slots), Arcane Eye, makes Wizards dizzy and vomit because the DM judges the spell has bad 3D Imaging Magic....because the "DM thinks that is fair".

This isn't bad 3D Technology at the AMC theatre....this is the pinnacle of mobile, remote sensor magic. Slap Disadvantage on Perception checks, and a player is absolutely justified as rating Arcane Eye as too big of a risk for too little payoff to be consistently useful....and thus not use the spell.

The call is yours to make. May your decisions be wise, or at the very least: Fun.

[Segev]

That has never been in dispute. What I have asked, from my first post is:
Should a DM place Disadvantage on Perception checks due to having Arcane Eye active?

::shrug::

I don't think it will ever be that big of a deal, honestly. So I can't get excited about it one way or the other. I probably would default, as a DM, to giving the mage Disadvantage on local-to-him perception while using it, but he's almost never going to be alone. But I also don't care strongly about it.

The "defense" is verisimilitude, and yes, I would apply the same thing to clairvoyance. I would also let the player choose to focus on his own location and have disadvantage on the arcane eye's location perception, instead.

[Asisreo1]

I'd rule that its basically another eye. That is, it overlays your current vision.

If you're able to separate your eyes a bit, you'll see "double" or the two images are too far apart for your brain to stitch them together in the form of a 3d image. It makes seeing things harder, but you still are technically "seeing" them.

If you're blinded, its the same as having one eye closed while the other is open, you're still able to see semi-normally. In this case, you'll see normally from the arcana eye's perspective rather than from your head.

I wouldn't give an mechanical disabilities to your character for using arcana eye, but flavorfully, I'd mention its like having to images overlayed and its easy to lose track of things you aren't putting your focus on.

[BarneyBent]

So it seems everybody agrees that the spellcaster can still see through their normal vision while simultaneously scouting with Arcane Eye. That is good. We ended the session with me just popping it and us assuming it was like scouting with a Familiar - I'm blinded while receiving info.

The disadvantage question is interesting. I'm playing a human in dim light with a Sentinel Shield so it won't actually matter but may in future.

[Tanarii]

Losing your passive perfection entirely would be fair. You lose it if you're engaged in another activity. Examples given are Tracking, Foraging, Navigating or Mapping. Looking at a completely different area would be at least as engrossing as those activities.

The bigger question is how do you mentally see everything in every direction from the eye in the first place? This spell should drive anyone casting it mad.

(Note: I'm not saying you can't see. Just that you won't have a chance to notice any threats or other hidden things using PP. Same as with the other example activities.)

[Segev]

Losing your passive perfection entirely would be fair. You lose it if you're engaged in another activity. Examples given are Tracking, Foraging, Navigating or Mapping. Looking at a completely different area would be at least as engrossing as those activities.

The bigger question is how do you mentally see everything in every direction from the eye in the first place? This spell should drive anyone casting it mad.

(Note: I'm not saying you can't see. Just that you won't have a chance to notice any threats or other hidden things using PP. Same as with the other example activities.)

I know it's blue text, but to address it seriously anyway, "It's magic." I don't mean that in the dismissive sense, but rather in the sense that perhaps helping the mind handle it is literally part of the magical effect.

[MaxWilson]

Arcane Eye requires Concentration. That is the whole sticht of Concentration, it signifies when a creature is doing one thing, but also paying attention to something else. 😀

Should any application of Concentration also apply Disadvantage to all Perception checks, not just Arcane Eye?


I don't know about disadvantage (that wasn't my suggestion) but I do want to point out that even something as simple as walking at a fast pace gives you disadvantage on your Perception rolls according to PHB/DMG rules.

Applying that same penalty anyone who's busy concentrating would not be crazy.

[Segev]

I don't know about disadvantage (that wasn't my suggestion) but I do want to point out that even something as simple as walking at a fast pace gives you disadvantage on your Perception rolls according to PHB/DMG rules.

Applying that same penalty anyone who's busy concentrating would not be crazy.

In particular Concentrating on looking somewhere else.

[MaxWilson]

The bigger question is how do you mentally see everything in every direction from the eye in the first place? This spell should drive anyone casting it mad.

I would think it works like the expanded field of vision you get when you point your eyes in different directions (e.g. go cross-eyed). Everything looks smaller because your total FoV is bigger, even though logically nothing can _actually_ be shrinking relative to a given eye (it still activates the same number of rods/cones).

At least, that's what it looks like to me. I've never actually heard anyone else describe what a larger FoV looks like to them.

[Valmark]

To be fair, "can look in every direction" is different from "looks in every direction". I always interpreted it as having the field of view of, well... An eye. You just 'turn around' if you need to.

[Segev]

I would think it works like the expanded field of vision you get when you point your eyes in different directions (e.g. go cross-eyed). Everything looks smaller because your total FoV is bigger, even though logically nothing can _actually_ be shrinking relative to a given eye (it still activates the same number of rods/cones).

At least, that's what it looks like to me. I've never actually heard anyone else describe what a larger FoV looks like to them.

Crossing my eyes gives me doubled vision and an inability to focus on anything properly, so I don't notice a larger FoV, just a diminished sight overall and a weird doubling of things.

[Thunderous Mojo]

I don't know about disadvantage (that wasn't my suggestion) but I do want to point out that even something as simple as walking at a fast pace gives you disadvantage on your Perception rolls according to PHB/DMG rules.

Applying that same penalty anyone who's busy concentrating would not be crazy.

30' movement does not typically constitute a fast pace. That is what an Arcane Eye moves at, if the caster spends their action.

The caster then uses their movement to move 30'.

So if an Arcane Eye is moving 30' in front of the caster and then the caster follows directly behind, is it still "not crazy" to asses a penalty?

I find the responses well intentioned but ultimately {scrubbed}, because I doubt, that people are applying Disadvantage to the Perception checks of all characters utilizing Concentration, all the time.

Shadowblade and Shield of Faith have relatively short durations, so those spells would largely be unaffected by a Concentration = Disadvantage on Perception check ruling.

Arcane Eye lasts an hour, and the sole purpose of the spell is so the caster can see from two separate vantage points at once. So ruling that Concentration = Disadvantage on Perception checks disproportionately impacts Arcane Eye compared to say Shadow Blade.

This is especially true if Concentration = Disadvantage on Perception checks is routinely enforced during Exploration, but not during combat.

A cleric casting Guidance on themselves just gave a +1d4 to a Perception, minus up to -5 for Disadvantage. This might convey verisimilitude, but it is clumsy, not fun, not really adding anything interesting, and not particularly inspired Dungeon Mastering.

[Segev]

30' movement does not typically constitute a fast pace. That is what an Arcane Eye moves at, if the caster spends their action.

The caster then uses their movement to move 30'.

So if an Arcane Eye is moving 30' in front of the caster and then the caster follows directly behind, is it still "not crazy" to asses a penalty?Query: do you think I'm giving Disadvantage to all perception checks while the spell is active? Because that's not what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting that, if the eye is over in another room while the mage is walking with the party down a completely different hallway, the mage picks whether he's paying attention to what the eye is seeing or what he is perceiving. Whichever he's not paying attention to, I either don't let him make perception checks, or I give him disadvantage.

In the described situation, the mage is pretty much just a bit behind the eye, it sounds like, so it wouldn't even come up.


I find the responses well intentioned but ultimately {scrub the post, scrub the quote}, because I doubt, that people are applying Disadvantage to the Perception checks of all characters utilizing Concentration, all the time.I, at least, am not basing it on "Concentration." I'm basing it on where the mage's attention is. If the mage's attention is in his own location, then I'd likely give him Disadvantage on perception checks the eye is looking at. If his attention is on what the eye is looking at, I'd give him Disadvantage at his own location. Depending on what he's doing, I MIGHT not give him Disadvantage at either spot; if he's standing guard or something, for instance, then he's genuinely focused on looking for anything "incoming" and I'd not penalize him. But if he's searching around for hidden things and mapping out a distant location with the eye, I will either have him fail or have disadvantage on perception checks at his own location because he's not paying attention to the sensory input there. He'd still notice anything reasonably obvious, but if there's something subtle, he's likely to miss it. Just like trying to get somebody's attention when they're watching TV.


Arcane Eye lasts an hour, and the sole purpose of the spell is so the caster can see from two separate vantage points at once.No, it's purpose is to let him see things without being where he's scouting around. That it also lets him see in two places at once is more of a side effect.

[Thunderous Mojo]

Sergev, I'm not sure what people are ruling. That is why I am asking probing questions.

Thank you for sharing some specifics on how you view the issue.

Arcane Eye isn't the same as looking through a video monitor.
Arcane Eye is: You mentally receive visual information from the eye, which has normal vision and darkvision out to 30 feet.

One could argue since this information is not going through image reversal and processing as information that passes through our ocular cortex does, that Arcane Eye is at least as good a your own eyes and possibly better.

My left eye does not distract me from what I see in my right eye. Why is the magical third eye from Arcane Eye so distracting?

Any examples from our reality, are inaccurate and turn the magical 3rd eye into literally, quotidian distraction. A 4th level spell can't "vision correct"?

As for this quote by Sergev:
"No, it's purpose is to let him see things without being where he's scouting around. That it also lets him see in two places at once is more of a side effect."

Personally, I like to take the text as is, and try not to let my presumptions cloud my rulings or my judgement. There is nothing in the text itself that supports your supposition that Arcane Eye is intended to be used in a particular way, and that seeing in two places is an unintended side effect.

[Segev]

Your left and right eyes also aren’t looking at two different things. That’s why, if your arcane eye is in the same room looking at the same things you are, I wouldn’t give disadvantage. However, consider trying to listen to the news on the radio while reading a forum on the internet. You’re going to really only be paying full attention to one of them. The other might distract or it might not, but it will only occasionally call your attention.

You’re engaging the language center of your brain for two things. And only focused on one.

Same here: two things are vying for your attention.

Or try to read two novels simultaneously, one in front of each eye. Or to watch TV and read your phone at the same time, holding both in your field of view.

Now, it is magic. If you want to rule that it has an unwritten ability to make you multitask two points of focus at once, that’s probably fine. I won’t even say it’s against the RAW. But neither does it say you can split your attention.

It is a DM call whether you are focused enough on something to do it at full capacity. Disadvantage can be given for smaller distractions than you simply not paying attention.

It would be a judgment call each time, for me. But the reasoning centers around where your attention is. I wouldn’t let you sing opera while transcribing a court proceeding without at least giving you disadvantage in any rolls you had to make to see how well you did, and the crosses focus and overlapping sensory stimulus is at least similar.

But for the most part, it probably wouldn’t even matter. The rest of the party isn’t sharing your magical search, and it attention at your location is so important that you wish to focus there, you can.