Baldur's Gate games and D&D Canon

[Xeko]

Okay, so I'm going to replay Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II, in preparation for my group's next Campaign, Descent into Avernus, which is supposed to be a sort of bridge between the first two games in the series, and the new Baldur's Gate III. Now, I've read Descent into Avernus forwards and backwards, and I don't see anything that ties it in any way to the games, but maybe I'm just misremembering, having not played the games in so long (part of why I'm replaying them before the campaign begins).

Now, if I'm going to replay these video games, specifically to look for tie ins to a D&D campaign, I'd of course want to play the games in as lore-accurate a way as possible. I know that the events of the Baldur's Gate games is considered canon to the lore of the Forgotten Realms... but I also know that the details are kept intentionally vague, so as not to ruin any player's individual experiences with the games. With that in mind, I am asking, if there are any details that we can confirm, that might guide me in making a play through of the Baldur's Gate games that is as "canon" as possible? Is there hard confirmation on protagonist race, class, alignment, or just speculation? What about party composition? Are any of the side quests confirmed to have happened in lore? Anything at all that ties the first two Baldur's Gate games (I'll play the third AFTER the Descent into Avernus campaign) with the Lore of the Forgotten Realms?

[JackalTornMoons]

Abdel Adrian, male human fighter, is the canon protagonist.

The canon BG1 party is Abdel, Khalid, Jaheira, Imoen, Minsc, and Dynaheir.

[SpanielBear]

If you look in some corners of the internet, you will find confused, deranged people who will tell you about two novelisations of the first two games.

Ignore these people. Close your ears to them. These books do not exist.

It is... better, that way.

(I’m pretty sure the Iron Plague, the Bhaalspawn crisis in itself and Alaundo’s prophecies are all canon. As for specific events like the ravaging of Sudalnesselar or the trials of Trademeet, I have no idea)

EDIT

Oh fine. Have Abdel if you *must*. But the books have about as much bearing on the games as an Uwe Boll adaptation.

[Unoriginal]

Okay, so I'm going to replay Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II, in preparation for my group's next Campaign, Descent into Avernus, which is supposed to be a sort of bridge between the first two games in the series, and the new Baldur's Gate III. Now, I've read Descent into Avernus forwards and backwards, and I don't see anything that ties it in any way to the games, but maybe I'm just misremembering, having not played the games in so long (part of why I'm replaying them before the campaign begins).

Now, if I'm going to replay these video games, specifically to look for tie ins to a D&D campaign, I'd of course want to play the games in as lore-accurate a way as possible. I know that the events of the Baldur's Gate games is considered canon to the lore of the Forgotten Realms... but I also know that the details are kept intentionally vague, so as not to ruin any player's individual experiences with the games. With that in mind, I am asking, if there are any details that we can confirm, that might guide me in making a play through of the Baldur's Gate games that is as "canon" as possible? Is there hard confirmation on protagonist race, class, alignment, or just speculation? What about party composition? Are any of the side quests confirmed to have happened in lore? Anything at all that ties the first two Baldur's Gate games (I'll play the third AFTER the Descent into Avernus campaign) with the Lore of the Forgotten Realms?

I don't think Descent Into Avernus is supposed to bridge the games, it's just providing context for the third game.

Aka Bhaal is alive and currently in Baldur's Gate with his buddies, Elturel went to hell and back, the Flaming Fists are under Ravenguard's leadership, etc.

[RedMage125]

Bhaal sowing his children across the Realms is canon.

And Abdel Adrian was Gorion's Ward. He gave up his divinity, but was still very long-lived for a human. He eventually became one of the Grand Dukes of Baldur's Gate...until he was murdered by the last remaining Bhaalspawn (the guy who teleported away whenever he got scared). This was in the adventure Murder in Baldur's Gate.

[Millstone85]

In addition to the novels, there was a module, part of the 4e/5e transition, called Murder in Baldur's Gate. This module confirms that Abdel's final choice was to remain a mortal.

However, unlike in the games where the choice made sense (either let a solar take the power away, and seal it somewhere on Mount Celestia, or keep the power and put it to good use, but at the risk of becoming corrupted by it) the module uses the novels' version where the power is sealed within Adrian himself, meaning it was just a matter of time before Bhaal had another chance at resurrection.

Which is exactly what happens in the module, and indeed Bhaal is active in 5e.

To add insult to injury, Abdel is killed by Viekang, who appeared twice in the games as a joke character. It is the guy who can't help but teleport whenever he is afraid.

I am very bitter about the whole thing.

Edit: ninja'd

[Unoriginal]

To be fair, Bhaal coming back *this time* was 100% AO's fault.

[SpanielBear]

Jaheira
Minsc
Keldorn
Anomen
Haer’Dalis
Viconia
Aerie
Imoen
Edwin
Yoshimo
Valygar
Mazzy
Korgan
Nalia
Cernd
Jan

And... Adrian.

Dear gods those books...

[RedMage125]

To add insult to injury, Abdel is killed by Viekang, who appeared twice in the games as a joke character. It is the guy who can't help but teleport whenever he is afraid.

I am very bitter about the whole thing.


Even worse is the fact that when he's encountered in Throne of Bhaal, it is clear that Melisan (or whatever her name is) has taught him to control his fear and now he can't teleport...and there's an invading army on its way to kill all the Bhaalspawn in the city.

You are left with the very CLEAR impression that Viekang does not survive. Especially since Abdel was supposed to be the VERY LAST Bhaalspawn left. So having him come back is a double spit in the face.

[SpanielBear]

Even worse is the fact that when he's encountered in Throne of Bhaal, it is clear that Melisan (or whatever her name is) has taught him to control his fear and now he can't teleport...and there's an invading army on its way to kill all the Bhaalspawn in the city.

You are left with the very CLEAR impression that Viekang does not survive. Especially since Abdel was supposed to be the VERY LAST Bhaalspawn left. So having him come back is a double spit in the face.

To be scrupulously fair, you can cast fear on him and he escapes the city. Although given how the game plays out, Mellisan tracking him down and murdering him isn’t an unreasonable inference.

Also, that would mean Viekang is murdering the very guy who literally saved his life.

[Hellpyre]

The Time of troubles was DR 1358, the protaganists appear to be just entering adulthood based on the Candlekeep segment, and so probably the first Baldur's Gate starts no later than DR 1376. The Second Sundering concludes DR 1487. So any 5e adventure starts a minimum of 100 years after Baldur's gate concludes. While it may provide a lead-in to the events that are part of BG3, Descent is not exactly a bridge between the series.

[Millstone85]

Few know of Bhaal’s plan in these events. Among those who do, many believe that the plot collapsed forever when Adrian slew Bhaal’s last high priestess and denied acceptance of the accumulated power of Bhaal, instead choosing for himself a mortal life.

Those who believe that fable are fools. The Lord of Murder is in darkness, but he waits only for two victims—the last victims—to reclaim his throne of blood.You know, when I read this part, I can't help but feel that all of us who played through BG1, SoD, BG2, and ToB, are being called fools. :smallyuk:

[RedMage125]

You know, when I read this part, I can't help but feel that all of us who played through BG1, SoD, BG2, and ToB, are being called fools. :smallyuk:

I would agree.

[Xeko]

So is Abdel a Fighter, or a Fighter/Mage? I know he supposedly has some powerful magic, but is that from his class, or from his Bhaalspawn powers? Because if he's a Fighter/Mage, which I always thought he was, that poses a problem for the games. Humans can't multiclass in the game. It wouldn't be the first time Wizards of the Coast bent the rules for fan favorite/custom lore characters, but for the purposes of a playthrough...

As for party composition, I think it's fair to say based on dialog in the sequel that the Baldur's Gate 1 party is protagonist, Imoen, Minsc, Dynaheir, Jaheira, and Khalid. But what about Baldur's Gate II and Throne of Bhaal? I am currently thinking Protagonist, Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira... Yoshimo joins right before Imoen leaves, and leaves right before Imoen rejoins, so that makes him feel like the intended thief for the group. But what about the other two party positions?

This is where the speculation really comes in... Aerie is the first party member available, immediately after leaving the starting dungeon, and Imoen leaving didn't leave the party only without a thief, but without a mage as well... it's hard to say she's an "intended" party member, but then again, there's the subplot of Aerie being Minsc's Witch, so maybe? And the six spot being a rotating position, allowing the player to go through all the other party members' unique side quests? Eventually that sixth spot will find a permanent party member in Seravok, but he's late game.

Thoughts? I haven't seen anyone commenting on sequel party composition yet, so it's hard to say if this is a good approach or not.

And what of romance? Bioware games love throwing in romancable party members. Did Abdel ever have a mate?

[Millstone85]

So is Abdel a Fighter, or a Fighter/Mage? I know he supposedly has some powerful magic, but is that from his class, or from his Bhaalspawn powers?I believe he was just a fighter, with Bhaalspawn powers (all of which were gone by the time of MiBG).


Because if he's a Fighter/Mage, which I always thought he was, that poses a problem for the games. Humans can't multiclass in the game.Humans can't "multi-class" but they can "dual-class" instead, which would still allow Abdel to be a fighter/mage.

A multi-classed character progresses in two or three classes at once, dividing their experience points equally between them.

A dual-classed character starts with one class then shift to a second one. And there is that huge nonsense where they lose everything from their first class until they reach the same level, plus one, in their second class. For example, a fighter 6 / mage 1 can no longer wear helmets. Gotta wait until you are a fighter 6 / mage 7.


As for party composition, I think it's fair to say based on dialog in the sequel that the Baldur's Gate 1 party is protagonist, Imoen, Minsc, Dynaheir, Jaheira, and Khalid.And Boo! Don't forget Boo! :smalltongue:


But what about Baldur's Gate II and Throne of Bhaal? I am currently thinking Protagonist, Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira... Yoshimo joins right before Imoen leaves, and leaves right before Imoen rejoins, so that makes him feel like the intended thief for the group. But what about the other two party positions?
And what of romance? Bioware games love throwing in romancable party members. Did Abdel ever have a mate?Sorry, I have no idea what the novels made of it.


This is where the speculation really comes in... Aerie is the first party member available, immediately after leaving the starting dungeon, and Imoen leaving didn't leave the party only without a thief, but without a mage as well... it's hard to say she's an "intended" party member, but then again, there's the subplot of Aerie being Minsc's Witch, so maybe? And the six spot being a rotating position, allowing the player to go through all the other party members' unique side quests? Eventually that sixth spot will find a permanent party member in Seravok, but he's late game.That makes sense. Plus, you better have a cleric in BG2, what with all the level-draining undead.

[J-H]

AFAIK, the novel had Jaheira as the romance in BG2, and Imoen got forced into physical relations by a Drow matron mother and ended up changing orientation as a result of that violation. Wrong on many levels, and wouldn't get published today.

Just go with "give up divine power" and make your party whatever it wants. I think the only thing that impacts the later modules and games is that Minsc doesn't die, but instead ends up petrified somewhere - presumably WITHOUT the Psion's Blade, Armor of the Hart, etc.

[SpanielBear]

AFAIK, the novel had Jaheira as the romance in BG2, and Imoen got forced into physical relations by a Drow matron mother and ended up changing orientation as a result of that violation. Wrong on many levels, and wouldn't get published today.

Just go with "give up divine power" and make your party whatever it wants. I think the only thing that impacts the later modules and games is that Minsc doesn't die, but instead ends up petrified somewhere - presumably WITHOUT the Psion's Blade, Armor of the Hart, etc.

He doesn’t end up as a waiter at the Copper Coronet, either.

[RedMage125]

As for party composition, I think it's fair to say based on dialog in the sequel that the Baldur's Gate 1 party is protagonist, Imoen, Minsc, Dynaheir, Jaheira, and Khalid. But what about Baldur's Gate II and Throne of Bhaal? I am currently thinking Protagonist, Imoen, Minsc, Jaheira... Yoshimo joins right before Imoen leaves, and leaves right before Imoen rejoins, so that makes him feel like the intended thief for the group. But what about the other two party positions?
My "Good" Playthrough was Protagonist (Cleric), Minsc, Jaheira, Natalie/Imoen(because they're basically the same character), Jan Jansen (only NPC who advances Thief skills), and Aerie (put her in the Robe of Vecna, and she casts all Wizard and Cleric spells instantly).



This is where the speculation really comes in... Aerie is the first party member available, immediately after leaving the starting dungeon, and Imoen leaving didn't leave the party only without a thief, but without a mage as well... it's hard to say she's an "intended" party member, but then again, there's the subplot of Aerie being Minsc's Witch, so maybe? And the six spot being a rotating position, allowing the player to go through all the other party members' unique side quests? Eventually that sixth spot will find a permanent party member in Seravok, but he's late game.
I've never done the "Redeem Sarevok" subplot. I understand you need Minsc to do it?

I've only taken Sarevok on my "Evil" run through. Which was Protagonist (I...actually forget which class, I think it was Mage), Sarevok, Jan Jansen, Viconia (Romance), Jaheira, and...
...
I forget which party member I took for the last spot. Don't remember who is Evil or Neutral that's a good fit. I remember briefly taking on the Tiefling Bard, but he's kind of a tool, so I dropped him.



Thoughts? I haven't seen anyone commenting on sequel party composition yet, so it's hard to say if this is a good approach or not.

And what of romance? Bioware games love throwing in romancable party members. Did Abdel ever have a mate?

Abdel and Jaheira started hooking up in the BG1 novelization. Khalid and her did not seem very close. Khalid and Xan die, Minsc is never encountered...it's not a great adaptation.

[Hellpyre]

Abdel and Jaheira started hooking up in the BG1 novelization. Khalid and her did not seem very close. Khalid and Xan die, Minsc is never encountered...it's not a great adaptation.

What sort of monster would adapt Baldur's Gate and leave out the most entertaining character in the game? And his beloved minature giant space hamster!

[SpanielBear]

What sort of monster would adapt Baldur's Gate and leave out the most entertaining character in the game? And his beloved minature giant space hamster!

No, they encounter him. In the second book, as some random prisoner of Irenicus. And, unfortunately, he is immediately abandoned to become a waiter in the Copper Coronet.

There is no Boo.

The books are *bad*. Sorry to belabour the point but they really really are.

[J-H]

You don't have to have anyone with you to redeem Sarevok.
If you have Imoen in ToB, she starts getting Bhaal powers, I think all the way up to a Harm and a Heal?

My later playthroughs usually ended up going with smaller parties for challenge or to pull stuff off faster... or themed parties.

One of the easiest runthroughs was the 6 martial party. Keldorn, Minsc, Mazzy, CHARNAME, Korgan, and I think Valygar? Melissan went down in 1 round of Whirlwinds for every single phase. 60 attacks in one round was just too much for her little half-ascended self. A martial party like that is also faster to play, since you don't have to pause and issue a bunch of fiddly orders - just run in and chop everything to bits.

If I had to pick headcanon to be real canon, I think I'd go with Viconia. She was annoying at times, but she always felt like she had the most depth and realism... I don't like the ending they gave her, though (Lolth catches up with her IIRC).

Female CHARNAME would be cool, too. As a teenager, I loathed Anomen and found him annoying. As someone in my 30s... Anomen does a lot of growing up and maturing and working through his family issues and character flaws.

[Unoriginal]

Well it seems those books are not canon, because in the 5e books (and Baldur's Gate 3) Minsc and Boo were recognized heroes before they ended up petrified, then they resumed their activities after being turned back to normal.

They even have a actual statue in Baldur's Gate now (because the merchants complained that they were missing a landmark after Minsc and Boo got freed).


Not sure how canon it is, though, but last time Minsc and Boo were spotted, it was in Avernus, where Minsc notably succeeded two "triple disadvantage" checks (aka, roll three dice, keep the worst) by climbing from the bottom of an Hell chasm to the top while carrying three adventurers (including a Paladin with a broken leg), Boo and a squirrel on his back.

[Millstone85]

Abdel and Jaheira started hooking up in the BG1 novelization. Khalid and her did not seem very close.
The books are *bad*. Sorry to belabour the point but they really really are.I heard that he is even portrayed as an abusive husband. This couldn't be farther from their relationship in the games where (1) she wears the pants and (2) they are nonetheless very happily married.

[J-H]

Not sure how canon it is, though, but last time Minsc and Boo were spotted, it was in Avernus, where Minsc notably succeeded two "triple disadvantage" checks (aka, roll three dice, keep the worst) by climbing from the bottom of an Hell chasm to the top while carrying three adventurers (including a Paladin with a broken leg), Boo and a squirrel on his back.

His mighty determination was simply too much for Evil! For justice!

[Millstone85]

Out of curiosity, do you intend to include Siege of Dragonspear in your run?

It is completely optional, and it has got some bad press, but personally I like it.

Plus, you can take any companions you want, because the epilogue map is, in any case, going to reunite you with Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Dynaheir and Minsc (and Boo).

But before that, my favorite version of the final boss? It is when you answer the devil's "You would dare" question with something like "Uh, yes?" which prompt them to call you as dumb as Caelar, in turn prompting her to blindly charge at the devil and get crushed like a bug. The other options are convincing her to join you, or seeing her become a blackguard, but she doesn't deserve to play the badass. :smallbiggrin:

[RedMage125]

Out of curiosity, do you intend to include Siege of Dragonspear in your run?

It is completely optional, and it has got some bad press, but personally I like it.

Plus, you can take any companions you want, because the epilogue map is, in any case, going to reunite you with Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Dynaheir and Minsc (and Boo).

But before that, my favorite version of the final boss? It is when you answer the devil's "You would dare" question with something like "Uh, yes?" which prompt them to call you as dumb as Caelar, in turn prompting her to blindly charge at the devil and get crushed like a bug. The other options are convincing her to join you, or seeing her become a blackguard, but she doesn't deserve to play the badass. :smallbiggrin:

I got the Switch port of the Baldur'e Gate series, which is the first time I have ever played Siege of Dragonspear. I'm liking it so far. I'm actually almost done. Lacking Imoen, I have taken the thief girl...I forget her name. She's got a sort of romance subplot.

[Millstone85]

I got the Switch port of the Baldur'e Gate series, which is the first time I have ever played Siege of Dragonspear. I'm liking it so far. I'm actually almost done. Lacking Imoen, I have taken the thief girl...I forget her name. She's got a sort of romance subplot.Safana. I like her, even though she cheats on the protagonist with another romanceable companion. In fact, I also like Voghiln, despite him cheating on the protagonist with Safana. I mean, you kinda know what you are signing for with this lecherous lot.

But what makes this awkward is Safana showing up in BG2 as an optional event. Her character apparently took a turn for the worse. She wants your head, for the bounty on it, and she was dumb enough to make a deal with werewolves (or maybe wolfweres, whatever). Apparently, this was the result of some social-media drama between the developers and a fan, who the chief werebeast actually got named after. The fan may have been rude, but talk about pettiness.

Anyhow, I prefer Glint as a replacement for Imoen. First, I think cleric/thief is one of the best multi-class in the games. Secondly, I find Glint to be a very endearing character, with a fun quest. I even tried being gay for him, but somehow didn't manage to complete that romance route. Gotta give it another go.

[Chronos]

Siege of Dragonspear is too railroaded to make for a really good game, but the story in it is solid.

[JackPhoenix]

IIRC, Viconia's existence (if not the participation in the events of BG) is canon, as she's responsible for the fall of house DeVir and the subsequent rise of house of Do'Urden.

[RedMage125]

IIRC, Viconia's existence (if not the participation in the events of BG) is canon, as she's responsible for the fall of house DeVir and the subsequent rise of house of Do'Urden.

Other way around. House DeVir fell when she was away from the city. Lolth abandoned her, so she abandoned Lolth and turned to Shar.

Remember, House DeVir fell the night Driz'zt was born. Driz'zt is an adult on the surface during BG1&2.

[JackPhoenix]

Other way around. House DeVir fell when she was away from the city. Lolth abandoned her, so she abandoned Lolth and turned to Shar.

Remember, House DeVir fell the night Driz'zt was born. Driz'zt is an adult on the surface during BG1&2.

IIRC, she lost Lolth got pissed when Viconia refused to sacrifice a child to her (funnily enough, because she thought it's not worthy enough sacrifice, her view of Lolth being better than the reality), so DeVir lost Lolth's favor, leaving it vulnerable to attack.

Viconia has been on a surface for a while when you first meet her, spending some time as a sex slave/mistress to a cali****e merchant, then living in disguise in some village. Neither worked out.

[Chronos]

The Waterdeep: Dragon Heist module includes a tongue-in-cheek cartoon of the Yawning Portal Inn, with all of its many denizens. Among the characters shown in the inn are Boo and Minsc (but I don't think any of the other BG characters).

[Unoriginal]

The Waterdeep: Dragon Heist module includes a tongue-in-cheek cartoon of the Yawning Portal Inn, with all of its many denizens. Among the characters shown in the inn are Boo and Minsc (but I don't think any of the other BG characters).

Boo and Minsc are alive and well during the time of Dragon Heist, although aside from the cartoon they're not mentioned in the module.