Best spell choices for Fey Touched and Shadow Touched

[Willie the Duck]

So we have a new Unearthed Arcana and people are doing a great job of figuring out if they love them or hate them. I'm still working through the July UA (https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/feats) with all the new feats, and keep coming back to the feats Fey Touched and Shadow Touched, which grant Misty Step and a level one divination/enchantment spell and Darkness and a level one illusion/necromancy spell, respectively. What do people think would be good uses for these feats (both in terms of what spells to pick and in what classes to take them)? I know when they came out people pointed out that Fey Touched could pick Hunter's Mark and thus do the Tracker feat's schtick better than the Tracker feat, but what else? What would you pick for a ranger, or warlock, or fighter (or pick your own)?

Not sure where I'm going with this, just curious what uses other people see in these.

[RogueJK]

Bless is definitely one of the top options for Fey Touched, especially for classes that aren't otherwise using their Concentration. Bless is one of those spells that's fantastic for the party at any level, but that higher level casters often have to forego in order to use higher level Concentration spells. This would allow Bless to continue to be used to buff the party, even at higher levels, by being put to use by non-Concentration classes. Especially on something like a Monk or Rogue, who being mobile Strikers would be less likely to get hit and need to make Concentration checks.

Bane could also be a great option for a Monk (especially Open Hand) or a Battlemaster, leveraging your unused Concentration to potentially debuff 3 enemies' Saving Throws against your Stunning Strikes, Open Hand Techniques, or Maneuvers. Also useful for a non-Concentration class like a Monk/Rogue/Fighter in a party with a lot of casters, to make their blasting/control/debuffs even more effective.

In fact, I think Fey Touched is a great choice for a Monk. +1 WIS and once a day Bless/Bane and Misty Step. That's pretty sweet.


Many Fighters could get good mileage out of Hex or Hunter's Mark with their multiple attacks and lack of other uses for their Concentration and many Bonus Actions.

Disguise Self or Charm Person could be handy for an Infiltrator type character.

Cause Fear would be handy for a Conquest Paladin as another source for the Frightened condition.

Inflict Wounds could be nice for some melee casters who won't gain multiple attacks, like a Paladin 2 Sorcadin or melee Abjuration Wizard.

Either feat would be a handy way for an Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight to get several additional spells known (especially "outside school" options), and castings per day.

Heroism or False Life could be a great Eldritch Knight option.

And an AT or other melee Rogue might be able to use Command as a method to generate Advantage by forcing an enemy Prone for a round (plus waste the enemy's action that turn). That's basically trading your Attack in the round you cast Command in exchange for melee Advantage and a chance to Sneak Attack in your next turn. Potentially situationally useful for times when you don't have another means available to trigger Sneak Attack, if that's what you want to focus on, though other spell choices would likely be more broadly useful more often.

[Ir0ns0ul]

I have thought a lot about the Fey Touched and probably Bane and Bless would my pick for Wizard or Arcane Trickster.

[Willie the Duck]

Lot of looks, just two responses. Perhaps they've covered everything. :smallbiggrin:


Bless is definitely one of the top options for Fey Touched, especially for classes that aren't otherwise using their Concentration. Bless is one of those spells that's fantastic for the party at any level, but that higher level casters often have to forego in order to use higher level Concentration spells. This would allow Bless to continue to be used to buff the party, even at higher levels, by being put to use by non-Concentration classes. Especially on something like a Monk or Rogue, who being mobile Strikers would be less likely to get hit and need to make Concentration checks.
I can definitely see Bless being a great way to use it, especially for those who don't have other concentration uses. Especially good for something like Monk or Rogue who might have a round where their main action isn't the predominant contribution they are making. That round the monk is dodging (bonus action) or when the rogue doesn't have a SA lined up (perhaps a no-surprise combat where their allies are still closing with the enemy) would be a great time to cast this.

I could also see it as a good spell to have for a bards and rangers, even though they have plenty of uses for their concentration, simply because I find they run into a lot of 'I have lots of spell slots to use, but no spell appropriate for the given situation.'


Bane could also be a great option for a Monk (especially Open Hand) or a Battlemaster, leveraging your unused Concentration to potentially debuff 3 enemies' Saving Throws against your Stunning Strikes, Open Hand Techniques, or Maneuvers. Also useful for a non-Concentration class like a Monk/Rogue/Fighter in a party with a lot of casters, to make their blasting/control/debuffs even more effective.
For a fighter, this seems like a even-bigger extrapolation of spending your first attack/a superiority dice on a shove/trip to get advantage on the next attacks -- instead spend a round to get a serious advantage on all subsequent rounds.


In fact, I think Fey Touched is a great choice for a Monk. +1 WIS and once a day Bless/Bane and Misty Step. That's pretty sweet.
It certainly opens up a lot of options. If you used to always take shadow monk for the mobility benefits, you could instead take something else (perhaps the new dragon-themed monk).


Many Fighters could get good mileage out of Hex or Hunter's Mark with their multiple attacks and lack of other uses for their Concentration and many Bonus Actions.
And have the feats to be able to spend one on this. Nice.


Either feat would be a handy way for an Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight to get several additional spells known (especially "outside school" options), and castings per day.

Heroism or False Life could be a great Eldritch Knight option.

And an AT or other melee Rogue might be able to use Command as a method to generate Advantage by forcing an enemy Prone for a round (plus waste the enemy's action that turn). That's basically trading your Attack in the round you cast Command in exchange for melee Advantage and a chance to Sneak Attack in your next turn. Potentially situationally useful for times when you don't have another means available to trigger Sneak Attack, if that's what you want to focus on, though other spell choices would likely be more broadly useful more often.
Overall, expanding the spell list of a AT/EK/Ranger/Bard/Sorcerer certainly seems to be the most 'efficient' use of the feat (although that competes with the fact that they have other uses for concentration).

[RogueJK]

Overall, expanding the spell list of a AT/EK/Ranger/Bard/Sorcerer certainly seems to be the most 'efficient' use of the feat (although that competes with the fact that they have other uses for concentration).

It doesn't necessarily have to be a Concentration spell, although those are generally most of the better options.

Something like Command, Charm Person, Disguise Self, Dissonant Whispers, False Life, or Inflict Wounds are all potentially decent non-Concentration choices.


Also, if you have access to Explorer's Guide to Wildemount, there's a new 1st level Divination spell called Gift of Alacrity that's non-Concentration and the target to add 1d8 to all of its Initiative rolls for 8 hours. So your one casting per day from Fey Touched could last basically the entire adventuring day, granting you or another party member a near-constant bonus to Initiative. This could be handy for any character, and would be especially nice on something like an Assassin.

[x3n0n]

According to the leak, Shadow Touched now gives Invisibility instead of Darkness. I think I like that change overall: Invisibility seems to have a lot more application to general adventuring.

It also feels like it's a really good match with Disguise Self.

However, most of the other necro/illusion options don't have the same appeal to me. It's a very small list, compared to divination/enchantment. Once-daily Inflict Wounds with advantage (since invisible) could be brutal at low levels, and Silent Image is thematic. Daily False Life looks underwhelming past early levels.

Agreed that both feel very good on partial casters. On non-casters, once-daily feels very limiting. I kinda wish there were prof bonus minus one uses of the first-level spell, or half PB.

[RogueJK]

According to the leak, Shadow Touched now gives Invisibility instead of Darkness. I think I like that change overall: Invisibility seems to have a lot more application to general adventuring.

And is less annoying to the party. (Darkness can be hard to use in combat without ending up hampering the party as much as the enemy...)


Agreed that both feel very good on partial casters.

Or any casters with odd spellcasting stat scores, who would otherwise be faced with wasting a feat on something like Actor, Keen Mind, or Observant.

These are now the best half-feats for INT/WIS/CHA, with the exception of Elven Accuracy on some characters.


On non-casters, once-daily feels very limiting.

Depends on the spell. Situationally useful spells like Disguise Self, Charm Person, or Sleep (strictly for non-combat use for getting past NPCs/guards) are often only needed once a day, if that.

And the aforementioned Gift of Alacrity wouldn't need to be cast more than 1/day most of the time, since it lasts 8 hours.

Invisibility, even 1/day, is still useful for scouting, exploration, and infiltration. And one Misty Step per day can still be an important addition to your bag of tricks, giving you a burst of additional movement distance, letting you bypass an inconvenient intervening obstacle or slip past the enemy's defensive frontline to get at their squishy rear, or especially instantly rescuing you from a nasty grapple/restraint by a monster or a spell.

[x3n0n]

Depends on the spell. Situationally useful spells like Disguise Self, Charm Person, or Sleep (strictly for non-combat use for getting past NPCs/guards) are often only needed once a day, if that.

And the aforementioned Gift of Alacrity wouldn't need to be cast more than 1/day most of the time, since it lasts 8 hours.

Invisibility, even 1/day, is still useful for scouting, exploration, and infiltration. And one Misty Step per day can still be an important addition to your bag of tricks, giving you a burst of additional movement distance, letting you bypass an inconvenient intervening obstacle or slip past the enemy's defensive frontline to get at their squishy rear, or rescuing you from a nasty grapple/restraint by a monster.

Agreed entirely on the 2nd-level spells; daily is enough to see a huge benefit.

I was thinking more about the short- and medium-duration first-level combat spells, especially concentration ones like Bless, Bane, Hunter's Mark, and Hex (since you can't restart them once lost, having no slots).

[RogueJK]

especially concentration ones like Bless, Bane, Hunter's Mark, and Hex (since you can't restart them once lost, having no slots).

Fighters already have CON proficiency and tend to have moderate/high CONs, which combined with their high ACs means they have a good shot at maintaining Concentration.

[x3n0n]

Fighters already have CON proficiency and tend to have moderate/high CONs, which combined with their high ACs means they have a good shot at maintaining Concentration.

Oh, I have an unnatural affinity for Monks, who have no such (until lv14), which colors my view. :)

I can just see myself: prebuff or spend first turn casting one of those, take half damage on a random Con-save AoE damage effect, lose concentration for no value. (Not bitter about Magic Initiate experiences, I promise....)

[cutlery]

My picks for Fey touched are Hex, Hunter's Mark, or Gift of Alacrity.

Hex is still great for a warlock as they can upcast it and keep a level 1 use in the tank for long days. Hex or Mark are also fantastic for a fighter.

For Shadow Touched things are more limited, Silent Image is probably what I'd go with. There aren't many great 1st level necromancy spells. Silent Image might be fun, though - and fits better with Invisibility (which Shadow Touched was changed to, from Darkness).

False Life and Color Spray are ok for 1-4th level use, but they drop off quickly if they aren't upcast.

[RogueJK]

Oh, I have an unnatural affinity for Monks, who have no such (until lv14), which colors my view. :)


Ah, but a Drunken Master or a Monk with Mobility playing with a "hit and run" style would be much less likely to get hit in the first place.

[x3n0n]

Ah, but a Drunken Master or a Monk with Mobility playing with a "hit and run" style would be much less likely to get hit in the first place.

Yeah, maybe Drunken Master and Open Hand are the best I can do here without doubling feats, which always feels painful on a point-buy Monk. Fey Touched (Wis) plus another Wis half-ASI feat at 4 still gives an AC bump.

[RogueJK]

Yeah, maybe Drunken Master and Open Hand are the best I can do here without doubling feats, which always feels painful on a point-buy Monk. Fey Touched (Wis) plus another Wis half-ASI feat at 4 still gives an AC bump.

Or since Tasha's is also introducing the ability to use your racial stat bonuses on any stat, any race putting +2 to WIS could make use of this with point buy, to even out their starting 17 WIS.

Mountain Dwarf Monk. Starting 17 DEX and WIS. Fey Touched at 4th for 18 WIS. Squat Nimbleness at 8th for 18 DEX. (Or vice versa.)

[x3n0n]

Or since Tasha's is also introducing the ability to use your racial stat bonuses on any stat, any race putting +2 to WIS could make use of this with point buy, to even out their starting 17 WIS.

Mountain Dwarf Monk. Starting 17 DEX and WIS. Fey Touched at 4th for 18 WIS. Squat Nimbleness at 8th for 18 DEX. (Or vice versa.)


Makes sense. My typical VHuman Monk is
8/16/14/10/16/8 (including Dex/Wis racial, can swap Int/Cha, not including any potential half-ASI feat)
Mobile is my default feat for non-OH, non-DM Monks, or maybe Alert for a Shadow Monk. Pre-Tasha, there aren't any half-ASI feats that were worth giving up (say) Wood Elf features (to my eye).

Post-Tasha, I think Fey Touched (Wis) is a fine lv1 choice, with any of the 4 mentioned above, leaving 16/17 Dex/Wis. Then another Wis half-ASI feat evens it out. With the wholly custom origin, that could be 15/18 Dex/Wis, evening out with a Dex half-ASI.

Edit: I really hate having an odd primary stat all the way up to lv8, but maybe Mountain Dwarf would be worth it. Maybe half-elf, and then use the extra +1 on Con.


Having re-read the options, I would happily take many things from the Fey list.

As I mentioned above, Bless/Bane/Hex/Hunter's Mark would be my defaults for a martial class. (Bane wants a decent casting stat for the opposing Cha save.)
Gift of Alacrity, if available, turns this into an interesting parallel for the Alert feat (half-ASI and Misty Step vs no surprise and no advantage for unseen attackers).
Sleep is very flavorful, potent at low levels, and potentially interesting in social stuff even at higher levels.
Hideous Laughter, Dissonant Whispers, and Command are all thematic and potent combat options, if your stat is high enough to beat Wis saves.
Heroism needs a good casting stat to be worthwhile and isn't exactly beloved.
The Animals options are a bit circumstantial for my taste, considering a whole feat.
I'd be sad to limit myself to once-daily for the Detect spells or Comprehend Languages.

For Shadow, nothing appeals besides Disguise Self, Silent image, and maybe Cause Fear or Inflict Wounds if your stat is high enough.

[cutlery]

[Spoiler=Monk and feats]


For Shadow, nothing appeals besides Disguise Self, Silent image, and maybe Cause Fear or Inflict Wounds if your stat is high enough.

I think shadow touched is still a nice feat for an EK, as both of those spells might be restricted school spells; freeing things up.

In a way, it is better now than it was when it granted darkness. By that same token it isn’t so nice for an arcane trickster.

[x3n0n]

I think shadow touched is still a nice feat for an EK, as both of those spells might be restricted school spells; freeing things up.

In a way, it is better now than it was when it granted darkness. By that same token it isn’t so nice for an arcane trickster.

Oh, good point: all of the judgments in my post are for non-casters.

I think both are very good picks for an Eldritch Knight, offering relevant off-school and even off-list spells.

I would need to think some more about Arcane Trickster. Invisibility is a fine pick, and Disguise Self isn't bad either. The question is what on-school spells you actually want with the additional spells known. 2nd level actually has quite a few appealing picks, so maybe that's good enough. Misty Step is obviously great, and there are a lot of relevant divination and non-Wizard enchantment spells they might want.

I haven't thought at all about the half-casters.

[cutlery]

Oh, good point: all of the judgments in my post are for non-casters.

I think both are very good picks for an Eldritch Knight, offering relevant off-school and even off-list spells.

I would need to think some more about Arcane Trickster. Invisibility is a fine pick, and Disguise Self isn't bad either. The question is what on-school spells you actually want with the additional spells known. 2nd level actually has quite a few appealing picks, so maybe that's good enough. Misty Step is obviously great, and there are a lot of relevant divination and non-Wizard enchantment spells they might want.

I haven't thought at all about the half-casters.

I think ready access to hex or hunters mark will become a new staple pick for EKs, but that’s just speculation. That it also gets them misty step is great.

[RogueJK]

That it also gets them misty step is great.

Yep. That was one of the best options for an EK's 8th level "any school" spell pick anyway, and now that's freed up for a second pick like Mirror Image.

[Willie the Duck]

Given what we've discussed, I had a great character concept. Kobold Press has a book called Deep Magic with some alternate backgrounds and one of them is Fae Hostage ('/ward' is implied) -- you spent such and such a time as the 'guest' of the fae (think Thomas the Rhymer). A Variant Human Ranger (Fey Wanderer*), Warlock (Fey) or Bard (glamour) with Fey Touched:Misty Step and Hunter's Mark or Gift of Alacrity and Shadow Touched: Invisibility and Disguise Self at 1st and 4th level would be incredibly thematic.
*Excepting that Fey Wanderer Ranger already gets Misty Step, making this like how you never take Rogue a Goblin, etc., so maybe a different archetype or skipping one of the feats

[RogueJK]

making this like how you never take Rogue a Goblin, etc.

Say what? Goblins make great Rogues. Just because Nimble Escape overlaps a bit with one Rogue ability (Cunning Action) doesn't invalidate the entire class as an option. A Mountain Dwarf makes a great Fighter, despite the overlap in weapon/armor proficiencies.

And while Fey Ranger already gets Misty Step so they don't benefit from the additional spell known, they still benefit from the +1 to WIS, additional 1st level spell, and free casting of Misty Step per day. Plus they can use the daily Misty Step even before they get 2nd level Ranger spells at Level 5. So it doesn't totally invalidate the usefulness of the feat.

Similarly, some races like Eladrin and Shadar-Kai get a Misty Step-style daily teleport as a racial ability, but that doesn't preclude taking a subclass like Fey Wanderer Ranger or Vengeance/Ancients Paladin or feat like Fey Touched that grants them the Misty Step spell too. If anything, it's even more on-point.

[Willie the Duck]

Perhaps never take rogue as a goblin should have had more air quotes around it. I've seen a lot of harping on goblins and people being disappointed with the obvious thematic race-class choice having a dis-synergy (along with the 'optimal' choice for hobgoblin being wizard, although both have died down somewhat since VGtM came out). Mountain dwarves, in general, I've seen the notion that they 'get' to have as many perks as they do specifically because at least one of them will be redundant/of lesser use. Honestly, I'm not particularly interested in optimization discussion anyways, and would play incredibly unoptimized characters to match a theme. On the other hand, I am also of the mindset that the existence of a in game selection that matches a theme does not mean I have to take it if I am attempting to match that theme. The +1 casting per day is pretty compelling for a ranger, who even at 1/2, rather than 1/3, spends a lot of time being a caster who can never afford to cast all the spells they want to cast, so that is a good point. What I find most compelling is that I would be willing to spend both 1st and 4th level ASI/Feats on these things with a Fey Wanderer, because their abilities incentivize 2 weapon fighting (which doesn't call out to take its benefiting feat ASAP in the same way that ranged fighting does).

[x3n0n]

[...]Variant Human [...] with Fey Touched:Misty Step and Hunter's Mark or Gift of Alacrity and Shadow Touched: Invisibility and Disguise Self at 1st and 4th level would be incredibly thematic.


Note that this kind of thing is also very much in the wheelhouse of the new "fully-custom" origins. Assuming the leak is right (and it matches up with oral statements from Jeremy Crawford in a Dragon Talk interview), this is the new option:



Custom Lineage
Instead of choosing one of the game's races for your character at 1st level, you can use the following traits to represent your character's lineage, giving you full control over how your character's origin shaped them:

Creature Type. You are a humanoid. You determine your appearance and whether you resemble any of your kin.

Size. You are Small or Medium (your choice).

Speed. Your base walking speed is 30 feet.

Ability Score Increase. One ability score of your choice increases by 2.

Feat. You gain one feat of your choice for which you qualify.

Variable Trait. You gain one of the following options of your choice: (a) darkvision with a range of 60 feet or (b) proficiency in one skill of your choice.

Languages. You can speak, read, and write Common and one other language that you and your DM agree is appropriate for your character.


That is, VHuman, but you can choose your size, you can choose between darkvision or the skill, and you get a +2 instead of +1/+1, and you can "fluff" to your heart's content.

Fey Touched and Shadow Touched feel like they were literally made for this: half-ASI (turning it into the typical +2/+1 or even a +3) and a strong theme to tie your origin to the Feywild or Shadowfell.

[RogueJK]

What I find most compelling is that I would be willing to spend both 1st and 4th level ASI/Feats on these things with a Fey Wanderer, because their abilities incentivize 2 weapon fighting.

The UA version did, effectively letting you use your Bonus Action for two things when dual wielding. The published version reportedly has removed the Bonus Action requirement, but reduced the damage. It's now just 1d4 extra damage, once per turn (scaling to 1d6 at Level 11). No specific benefit for dual wielding anymore.

They also removed the UA's quasi-smite ability.

[RogueJK]

Fey Touched and Shadow Touched feel like they were literally made for this: half-ASI (turning it into the typical +2/+1 or even a +3) and a strong theme to tie your origin to the Feywild or Shadowfell.

Agreed. Making a custom lineage with Fey Touched at Level 1 the perfect tie-in for something like a Fey Wanderer Ranger, Archfey Warlock, or Ancients Paladin, and Shadow Touched for stuff like Hexblade Warlock, Shadow Sorcerer, or Phantom Rogue.

[Willie the Duck]

The UA version did, effectively letting you use your Bonus Action for two things when dual wielding. The published version reportedly has removed the Bonus Action requirement, but reduced the damage. It's now just 1d4 extra damage, once per turn (scaling to 1d6 at Level 11). No specific benefit for dual wielding anymore.

They also removed the UA's quasi-smite ability.

Wow. They just won't let 2wf catch a break*. I certainly didn't feel that the UA version was overpowered. That's too bad.
*I suppose, like Sneak Attack, increasing attacks means at least one will connect such that you can apply the bonus.

[RogueJK]

I suppose, like Sneak Attack, increasing attacks means at least one will connect such that you can apply the bonus.

Yes, but unlike Sneak Attack you're only looking at an additional ~2.5 damage from the extra d4 per round, "scaling" (barely) by 1 point to ~3.5/d6 at 11th level. Whereas Sneak Attack goes up by ~3.5 every 2 levels.

So unlike Sneak Attack, it's not as worth chasing that by 2WF, considering you'd have to spend a Fighting Style on it to make it worthwhile, and potentially a feat if you don't want to be stuck with d4 or d6 weapons or if your DM is a stickler for "draw one weapon per round", and it would eat up your bonus actions that you could be using on other stuff.

Best case scenario, 2WF gets you a shot at an extra ~12 point of damage per round (d8+d4+5), if your first 1 or 2 attacks both miss, and if you've invested in the Fighting Style and Feat.

Whereas you could be Dueling for up to 6.5 (d4+4) extra damage per turn with Extra Attack, with +2 AC and free Bonus Actions. Or Great Weapon Mastering for up to 22.5 (d4+20) extra damage per turn with Extra Attack, plus rerolling 1s and 2s on the damage dice from Fighting Style, with free Bonus Actions.

[Willie the Duck]

Yes, I am not disputing that this pretty much eliminates this archetype's value as a 2wf-promoter, only qualifying my statement that 2wf isn't catching a break to make clear that I am aware of the nuance.

What this does, for me, is make the archetype another bow-ranger, meaning I am less likely to pick up both of the Touched feats by L4, since I find Sharpshooter much more important to ranged fighting than Dual Wielder is for 2wf.

It really is too bad, as I think a 2wf ranger is something a lot of us previous-edition-players wanted, and a UA version of this, plus Hunter's Mark, meant that you were adding enough extra damage per-attack to actually make the fighting style worth considering.