Using Animal Aspect to gain the ability to cast whilst polymorphed?

[Atar]

I am working on a Cleric that will take the Saurian domain (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/domains/paizo-domains/scalykind-domain/saurian/). I like the idea of running around with my animal companion,
Two raptors on the hunt! :smallbiggrin:

But casting is out of the question with dinosaurs. I mean, somatic components could theoretically be discussed I guess, there is plenty of intelligent races with beast-like claws that are casters, but they tend to have opposable thumbs. Kinda useful if you want to drink a potion or something. Verbal components seems right out. The Natural Spell feat is not an option for me.

I was looking at different ways to get the verbal component sorted and I found a few. First of all there is the Ring of Eloquence (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rings/ring-of-eloquence/), also there is Beastspeak (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/beastspeak/).

So I ended up looking for something to help me get the somatic part in every form. Then I thought of Animal Aspect (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/a/animal-aspect/). It can give you monkey or ape arms.

Would it be possible to make a magic item that lets you have monkey arms whilst polymorphed?

I mean, the spell says it is possible to reshape your arms and the Ring of Eloquence gives a precedent for 'works when wildshaped or polymorphed':

The wearer retains the ability to speak in these languages even if she assumes a form normally unable to do so (such as a druid wild shaped into a wolf).

An item of Animal Aspect would cost 2 x 3 x 1800 = 10800 gold, plus 3500 for the Ring of Eloquence.

Is that fair for the ability to cast whilst polymorphed? Can you stack two polymorph spells on top of each other?

[Eldonauran]

Have you considered Still Spell (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Still%20Spell) (metamagic)? It effects the spell slot you are using to cast your spells, but it gets around your problem quite easily.


You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time.

[Rebel7284]

Surrogate Spellcasting
( Savage Species, p. 39)

[Atar]

Have you considered Still Spell (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Still%20Spell) (metamagic)? It effects the spell slot you are using to cast your spells, but it gets around your problem quite easily.


I guess your quote answered my question. What about the hands of a T-Rex making somatic gestures? I guess not eh?

[Atar]

Surrogate Spellcasting
( Savage Species, p. 39)

I am trying to stick to pathfinder as much as possible but thanks for the suggestion. I didn't know that existed.

[Ramza00]

Ring of Eloquence allows you to speak up to 4 languages even when wildshaped and that form normally can not speak a language
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/rings/ring-of-eloquence/

Mask of Giants if you just want to be a Large Humanoid-Giant creature
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/m-p/mask-of-giants/

Circlet of Speaking allows your animal companion to talk even if the animal companion is not very bright
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/c-d/circlet-of-speaking/

Animal Archive is the Pathfinder book that specializes with animal companions, familiars, and other things. In the first page after the cover it mentions which magic item slots various animal companions and familiars have. I would like to point out this part.

Creature body types marked with an asterisk(*) are able to grasp and carry one object at a time in their paws, claws, or hands, including weapons, rods, wands, and staves, though they may not be able to use such items effectively (GM's discretion) and take penalties for non-proficiency as usual.

(Note I am using the SRD here for it has more animal forms than animal archive)

Avian
Available Slots armor, belt, chest (saddle), eyes, head, headband, neck, ring, wrist; can grasp objects
Animal Companions archaeopyeryx, axe beak, bustard, dimorphodon, dire bat, eagle, giant owl, giant raven, giant vulture, hawk, moa, pteranodon, ornithomimosaur, owl, quetzalcoatlus, roc, trumpeter swan
Familiars archaeopteryx, arctic tern, bat, chicken, dodo, hawk, kakapo, osprey, owl, parrot, peafowl, penguin, ptarmigan, puffin, rhamphorhynchus, raven, snail kite, thrush, toucan

Biped (Claws)
Available Slots armor, belt, chest, eyes, head, headband, neck, ring, shoulders, wrist; can grasp objects
Animal Companions allosaurus, ceratosaurus, chalicotherium, deinonychus, giganotosaurus, iguanodon, kangaroo, pachycephalosaurus, parasaurolophus, spinosaurus, therizinosaurus, troodon, tyrannosaurus, velociraptor
Familiars compsognathus, wallaby

Biped (Hands)
Available Slots all; can grasp objects
Animal Companions ape, baboon, chimpanzee, devil monkey, megaprimatus
Familiars monkey, tarsier

The 8 remaining body types listed do not have abilities to grasp items.

https://aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?Name=Magic%20Item%20Slots&Category=Companions%20and%20Familiars

That said it is up to your DM to decide if these graspable hands / claws is delicate enough to provide the somatic components. Usually somatic components are described as precise movements of hands but not much more information beyond that. You may just have to use a rod of still spell or something.

[Atar]

But would a rod of still spell be active whilst polymorphed? As for using the still spell feat, I don't like the idea of all my spells being bumped up 1 level...

[Atar]

Cheers for the links to those items by the way, very useful. I found an FAQ (https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lc1y&page=5?Monkey-See-Monkey-Do-An-FAQ-on-Intelligent) which elaborates on animals getting higher intelligence and it is mentioned that your AC doesn't automatically gain a language upon reaching 3 int. It would have to learn it from scratch. And with 3 Int, that could take a looooong time.

Btw, I am thinking that if the creature can wear a ring, that means its claws are quite delicate.

Any opinions on the best dinosaur companion btw? I am leaning heavily towards the Velociraptor but that is mainly because of my childhood obsession with Jurassic Park ;)

[Atar]

Doh. I just realized that you meant holding the Still Spell rod whilst polymorphed. Yeah I guess that works!

[Ramza00]

Sidenote how are you getting Wildshape with Cleric? I am betting there are several ways but you did not mention it.

[Eldonauran]

Sidenote how are you getting Wildshape with Cleric? I am betting there are several ways but you did not mention it.Its not Wildshape they are using (which is why they can't use Natural Spell to resolve their issue). I believe they are going to be making use of the various Beastshape spells (and possible Animal Shape spell at higher level).

[Ramza00]

Its not Wildshape they are using (which is why they can't use Natural Spell to resolve their issue). I believe they are going to be making use of the various Beastshape spells (and possible Animal Shape spell at higher level).

Oh I was asking for if you are not using a class feature or a feat you can easily get a 2nd animal companion via various methods. For example the Chivalry Inquisition as your 2nd domain (note no dinosaurs on this list which is sad.) Or you can pick Animal Domain and so on.

[Atar]

Sorry for not responding earlier, I was preoccupied. I am building a Samsaran cleric in Pathfinder that will use the Saurian subdomain. He will have a Velociraptor animal companion and use the Share Shape spell to wreck havoc for hours per level. Also, the Saurian domain gives him Beastshape III and later on te 9th level spell Shapechange.

More info on this page (https://paizo.com/threads/rzs4382r?Samsaran-Shapechanging-Cleric-Need-help).

[Ramza00]

Interesting, I was not familiar with the Pathfinder Spell Share Shape.