Obah Blessed Dvati Archer help

[jaekaido]

i need help with an archer. currently the idea is an Obah Blessed, Dvati fighter. attacking is not the issue i can hit a target with a lower number. the party is mainly casters in a world which lacks magic items. i join the party at 7th level. the more damage dice the better. the idea is to take out targets before they get close enough to hit us.

build requirements.

level seven and farther.
preferably Dvati race.
Obah blessed template is a must. or other ways to make additional atttacks



right now at level ecl 7 i can shoot 4 times at +7 taking into account the negative for multi weapon fighting as i can't find anything that says specifically states it doesn't work with bows if they are multi limbed creatures using them. please help

[Gruftzwerg]

I would recommend a double-hand-crossbow build for maxing attacks per round. Have a look at my El Mariachi build for some ideas on how to build it.

Also note the Lightning Mace + Aptitude Weapon option mentioned by someone else in the thread for even more extra attacks.

While the build is optimized for a Deepwyrm Half Drow, you could adjust it to your needs with Obah Blessed and even go for Dvati.

Important to note is to start as Urban Druid to save the 2 feats needed for Exotic Weapon (Crossbow / Dual Crossbow).

The Blood in the Water stance synergies well with the high amount of regular twf multiweapon fighting attacks (in the Obah blessed chase 6 adding the 2nd Dvati 12). The double-hand-crossbows have an inbuild Rapid Shot abiity. This means for a stacking -2 penalty, each one of em can make an extra attack. With 6 double-hand-crossbows this means up to 6 extra attack (per character/Dvati) for a maximum of -12 attack penalty. Blood in the Water gives a stacking +1 to hit and damage for each successful crit. With the additional "to hit" you can compensate the Rapid Shot penalties and add extra Rapid Shot as you see it fit (to still reliably hit your targets AC).

[Darrin]

[QUOTE=jaekaido;24775712]
build requirements.

level seven and farther.
preferably Dvati race.
Obah blessed template is a must. or other ways to make additional atttacks



How is Level Adjustment being handled here? Dvati is LA +1, and Obah-Blessed is either LA +2 or LA +3. If you want a level 7 build with LA +4, then that's only 3 class levels to work with.

[daremetoidareyo]

If you have multi weapon from obah, rapid shot ranger 5/ fighter 2 nabs you many shot or rapid shot depending on your attack action. Making that a thug fighter gives sneak attack, so you could nab craven for those in 30' to add +7. Composite bows makes sense.

Can each of the 4 armed dvati twins fire 2 bows?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Archery builds (almost) always need significant bonus damage to compete with melee builds, so look into getting lots of bonus damage.

For instance, a rogue level, a couple of swordsage levels (and a stance for more sneak attack), and a weapon crystal or two that stack multiple weapon crystal abilities for additional d6s (as per the rules in the MIC for item ability stacking) should help you remain at least a bit more competitive for damage.

[jaekaido]

@Darrin i cannot buy off LA in this Game so yes it would leave me with three class levels and so i am looking at the hand crossbow builds and reducing the number of attacks to four per Dvati so i have two hands free for each for reload purposes. the idea is to get as many attacks as possible being able to be a reliable ranged character as the group is a bunch of casters and so when magic goes out the window for some reason i can pick up the slack and at least get us out of the hard spot.

the biggest problem i am having is that it is very unwise to enter melee range in the campaign as the monsters are just as beefed up as we are. this means that the monsters are just as dangerous if not more so. i tried to make a melee build and i thought it was solid and it turned out not to be as i got one-shoted within 20 minutes of the session beginning.

@daremetoidareyou yes they can technically use to composite bows. why what are you thinking?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Elvencraft longbow with various additions? It counts as both a quarterstaff and a composite longbow, so you can smack things with it.

How attached to fighter are you? Because psychic warrior has a lot going for it, given it has both (meta/psionic/fighter) bonus feats and powers to go with. Use teleportation/flight/ethereal-making powers to get out of the way of enemies, while using things like strength of my enemy to weaken them and strengthen yourself.

Or you could go artificer, go with spell-storing raptor arrows, and perhaps even some spell-storing aurorum dye arrows (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/weapon-descriptions/ammunition/ammunition-bow-arrows-common/ammunition-bow-arrow-dye/) to buff and heal allies, as well.

[jaekaido]

magic items are practically impossible to get in this campaign. the rest of the party use things like darkcrafting to get them. being i am not against sacrificing people i am okay with them doing it but i don't want to take part in it.

i can use all official products and the dragon compendium and the obah blessed template. that's it those are my allowed resources.

as far as fighter goes anything with at least a d10 HD is necessary to survive if i get stuck in melee range. so as long as the psychic warrior is d10 or above i am good to go with that.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

magic items are practically impossible to get in this campaign. the rest of the party use things like darkcrafting to get them. being i am not against sacrificing people i am okay with them doing it but i don't want to take part in it.You might consider the Ancestral Relic feat, and if you're going psychic warrior, the soulbound weapon ACF (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a).


as far as fighter goes anything with at least a d10 HD is necessary to survive if i get stuck in melee range. so as long as the psychic warrior is d10 or above i am good to go with that.Psychic warriors gain access to vigor, which grants +5 temp hp per pp spent. If you have a psicrystal and share pain, you can share vigor with your psicrystal and use share pain on it so you take half-damage, giving you the equivalent of 10 temp hp per pp spent.

This, obviously, blows the fighter's d10 HD away if you have it up. I usually use the Linked Power feat, as well as the synchronicity power, so I can buff and attack in the same turn. That way I get extra standard actions and can move, full attack, and buff without worrying about being stingy with my actions, giving me a LOT of options on how to go about killing things solving problems.

[Vizzerdrix]

magic items are practically impossible to get in this campaign. the rest of the party use things like darkcrafting to get them. being i am not against sacrificing people i am okay with them doing it but i don't want to take part in it.

i can use all official products and the dragon compendium and the obah blessed template. that's it those are my allowed resources.

as far as fighter goes anything with at least a d10 HD is necessary to survive if i get stuck in melee range. so as long as the psychic warrior is d10 or above i am good to go with that.

Well, their are a few ways around getting magic items. Ancestral Relic feat, Item Familiar feat. I think their are a few archery PrCs that let you make enchanted arrows. Fiend of Possession is my personal favorite way to get magical gear. I know I'm missing some.

Damage boosts. I like Cyrian Avenger, and peerless archer.

[bean illus]

LA +4 is going to make archery difficult. Archery needs feats, and levels, and spells. Still, 2 brothers with 6 arms each? ...

How's that work? The template grants multi attack but the build still needs improved multi attack?

How many shots does one get with a long bow? BAB iteratives plus 1 shot per pair of arms?

[Gruftzwerg]

Well, their are a few ways around getting magic items. Ancestral Relic feat, Item Familiar feat. I think their are a few archery PrCs that let you make enchanted arrows. Fiend of Possession is my personal favorite way to get magical gear. I know I'm missing some.

Damage boosts. I like Cyrian Avenger, and peerless archer.

I think Sculpt Self feat hasn't been mentioned so far. Any (worn) magic item effect can be applied with it. Just for weapons you need to rely on other options.

[jaekaido]

sorry for the late response been preoccupied. each brother would have 3 shots plus one rapid shot each. unless it is a spell, they each get a set of actions from what my DM and I understand. i am looking more for sheer number of attacks rather than mass damage for a few shots though if i can get more damage on a bunch of shots i would be fine with that.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Don't dvati share hp between them? I also think they can share spell effects, IIRC. So they have half-hp, which is bad, but a psywar using a psicrystal, vigor, and share pain would have double the temp hp, so (essentially) 20 temp hp per pp spent.

[Gruftzwerg]

Don't dvati share hp between them? I also think they can share spell effects, IIRC. So they have half-hp, which is bad, but a psywar using a psicrystal, vigor, and share pain would have double the temp hp, so (essentially) 20 temp hp per pp spent.

IIRC it is not a full sharing like with familiars. They can use Spell Conductor to shift a lasting effect to the other twin (effect and remaining duration doesn't change).

edit: here the important part of the ability

A dvati twin can choose to shift a spell that affects him to his twin so long as both of them are on the same plane. The shifted spell must have a range of touch and it must also be harmless. ...

even more limiting than I had in mind..^^

[rel]

Soulbow + extra arm buffs + multiweapon fighting?

Twice the arms = twice the shots.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

IIRC it is not a full sharing like with familiars. They can use Spell Conductor to shift a lasting effect to the other twin (effect and remaining duration doesn't change).

edit: here the important part of the ability

even more limiting than I had in mind..^^Err, what about:


A pair of dvati twins shares all class abilities and spells slots between them. For example, a 3rd-level dvati bard can use bardic music three times per day in total, not three times for each twin. Personal spells (those with a target of "you") affect both twins as long as they are on the same plane. Otherwise, they affect only the caster. Other spells function as normal. For example, a touch spell normally affects only the specific twin touched. The spell conductor ability (detailed below) allows the dvati to share some spells.?

Spell Conductor is for Touch spells. Otherwise, Personal spells affect both.

[Gruftzwerg]

Err, what about:

?

Spell Conductor is for Touch spells. Otherwise, Personal spells affect both.

you got me there ;)
I wasn't sure and that is why I googled extra the rule text and than this..
Sorry, I just woke up and I already did know that I was missing something while I was googling it.. there you go..^^

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If the OP is worried about running out of pp on a psywar (which is a definite concern), get a fistful of +1 manifester arrows. 5 pp per day. Each. Although you can only use one arrow for a single manifestation, even if it's a 1 pp one.

[bean illus]

sorry for the late response been preoccupied. each brother would have 3 shots plus one rapid shot each. unless it is a spell, they each get a set of actions from what my DM and I understand. i am looking more for sheer number of attacks rather than mass damage for a few shots though if i can get more damage on a bunch of shots i would be fine with that.

Well, each hand gets an attack, iirc. So either 3 longbows, or 3 greatswords, or 1 longsword with 5 daggers.

Ok, are you still doing this? There's a spell .... 2d level glory domain (or paladin 1st). Bless Weapon makes every critical threat a confirmation.

As i see it, the problem with composite bow is ability damage. Lesser resurrection fixes that. The problem with dvati is low hp, obah helps that, and so does cleric. You'll only need a few levels. The problem with rapid shot is tgat it's a full round action. Travel devotion fixes that (an puts that Cha to use.

But obah is LA +4, so you suffer any BAB loss. Divine Power fixes that, but it's 7 levels of cleric, and with LA +4 you would play four levels till 7th.

Would you consider a cleric chassis? Can you get the glory domain?

There's a greatbow. I think it's 1d10, 18-20 x2. Kaorti resin makes even a longbow x4 crit.

[jaekaido]

at this point i have determined that this concept would not work well for the campaign as there is no way to get what i want with it. so no i am not still doing this.

[bean illus]

at this point i have determined that this concept would not work well for the campaign as there is no way to get what i want with it. so no i am not still doing this.

Well, i might as well send you this.

Here's a combination that comes on fairly quick. It makes good use of blessed of Obah, and keeps the BAB high, while getting caster levels and some awesome abilities.

The elements you would need to clear with your DM:
Ancestral relic, Cloistered Cleric, Prestige Paladin, EWP Kaorti arrows, Ordained Champion, Glory Domain

Obah-Blessed: str +4, dex +6, con +4, cha +6, multiweapon fighting, +8 grapple (only for 2 or 4 armed base creatures).

14 14 14 - 10 14 14 - 32 point buy
18 20 18 - 10 14 20 - with racial bonuses

You enter the game with only 18 hp each? But you each have healing, and knowledge devotion, and full armor with high Dex, as powerful defensives. You also have martial weapons, rapid shot to synergize with travel devo, and a magic bow + 4 composite long bow, whose price is set above wbl. You also know lesser restoration, which is nearly crucial to a composite bow build.
You lose 1 BAB, but it doesn't happen again, and your obah Dex makes up for it.

Two levels later at 5th you can cast your signature spell, bless weapon. Now every critical threat is a confirm. At 6th you get a pet, more healing, and some of the best saves in the game. And your critical multiplier jumps to x4.

You reach level 7 at EL10 and trade the knowledge and glory domain powers for manyshot, and improved rapid shot.

There's a bit of room in the build after this level, and you could choose any number of classes, but it continues to acquire caster levels and full BAB, until caster level 7 brings divine power. You u become immune to fear. Celerity domain delivers haste, and cat's grace, and more. At 12th level improved precise shot is the benchmark.

The last 4 levels are now pretty open to take 0 BAB levels, as long as they don't require a feat. It's probably best to keep stacking cleric caster levels, but a level of ranger might be tempting, if your DM has decided to grant access to 1st level wands by then.
The build has potential for caster level 12.

The BAB is +16 with divine power. If you take improved multiweapon at 15th you get 3 more attacks each.

Many of the best archery options are in Dragon Mag. Being LA +4 is hard on the build.

CC Know, Glory, Travel Devo, Ancestral Relic
CC 2
F1 RS, PBS

F2 Mounted Combat
PP 1 + 1 caster level, Detect evil, smite evil 1/day
PP 2 Divine grace, lay on hands, special mount, EWP Kaorti arrows

OCh War, MS, IRS, spontaneous War
OCh 2 Diehard, smite
OCh 3 PS, Channel spell, divine bulwark

PP 3 + 1 caster level, Aura of courage, divine health
Contemplative 1 CL 7, Celerity
Contemplative 2 IPS


Do both twins have the same feats? If a class offers options, must they pick the same option (marshal, for instance)?