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View Full Version : New TO/high-CO build showcase: The Weaver of Time and Fate



Olo Demonsbane
2020-10-29, 12:56 PM
I've been playing around with some builds that use Synchronicity for one thing or another, and I came across an idea that I hadn't seen before. You should be able to chain Synchronicities, namely, manifest a Synchronicity, use that readied action to manifest another Synchronicity, and so on. Your last Synchronicity can be used to take whatever action you wanted to take normally. If you can apply any sort of rider on that power, you can apply it to yourself a large number of times. Given that there are a number of ways to get power points out of combat for free, you should be able to apply it many many times. Combining a couple of ideas that I had led to a new TO build, which still becomes high-power CO if your DM doesn't allow Synchronicity chaining. In fact, given how ridiculous that gets, I'm writing the majority of this assuming your DM houserules that you can only manifest Synchronicity once per round.

The Weaver of Time and Fate

Build stub: Azurin Wizard 2/Psion 1/Cerembrancer 2/Spellguard of Silverymoon 4/War Weaver 5/Cerembrancer +2/Fatespinner 2/Wyrm Wizard 2
ACFs: Conjurer Wizard, Immediate Magic, Seer speciality, Fate Points
Feats: Combat Casting (1st), Psycarnum Infusion (Azurin), Eldritch Corruption (Flaw), Enlarge Spell (Flaw), Improved Initiative (Martial Wizard1), Azure Talent (3rd), Magic of the Land (6th), Extend Spell (SoS2), Practiced Manifester (9th), Persist Spell (SoS4), Psionic Meditation (12th), Twin Power (15th), Reach Spell (18th)
Relevant Powers Known: Synchronicity, Bestow Power

Build Snapshots:

EL1: Starting off as a Conjurer with Abrupt Jaunt is always nice, even if you are setting a lot of feats on fire right now. As painful as it is, it's much better, in my book, than doing that later on.

EL3: Your reasonably standard wizard opening gets interrupted with a level of Psion. And Seer, instead of Shaper or Telepath? Seer has an ACF listed here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) which gives you access to "Fate points", which are identical to action points, even in a game that doesn't already allow them. This can be immensely helpful in general, as action points always are, but forms an integral part of the combo that comes online at level 11. You can expend your Psionic Focus to gain two free power points from Psycarnum Infusion and Azure Talent, which gives you a lot of sustainability right now, even if it's just with low level psion powers.

EL6: Your first few real tricks come online here, and this is a pretty excellent level in general. First of all, your essentia cap increases, letting you get 4pp from Azure Talent. Combined with Bestow Power, you have now gotten yourself NI power points, albeit at the rate of two every other round. This opens up another trick. With Magic of the Land, if you are in a natural setting, any spell (or power, using transparency) you cast heals two damage per spell level. So if you were injured, you can manifest Synchronicity chained as many times as you'd like, healing yourself back to full, without actually costing you an action in the end. If your DM rules that you can't chain Synchronicity like this, it's still a nice little healing boost you can trigger every round, and you can heal both you and your allies (using Bestow Power) to full out of combat.

Just in case that wasn't enough, you also get 3rd level spells at this level, which is the same a single classed Wizard would have right now. Finally, starting as a Spellguard of Silverymoon gets you attuned to Silverymoon's mythal. I am assuming that the myriad spell-like abilities that grants you only function when within the mythal, though that is not explicitly stated. If your DM rules otherwise, more the better for you. Those spells include things like air walk, lesser ironguard, and silence, to name a couple of the more useful ones.

EL9: Practiced Manifester shoots your ML up to 7, making you actually your psionic powers quite useful again, given how nicely they scale. You finally get access to the Spellguard ability, which lets you cast personal range spells as touch spells. These spells have to improve AC, increase a saving throw, or grant hit points (either temporary hp or healing). Thanks to Magic of the Land, all of your spells can heal, letting you use any personal spells at a touch. This becomes particularly useful...

EL10: When you get access to your eldritch tapestry. Any 1st level spell you can cast into the tapestry can affect Int-mod allies, and touch spells are valid options. Synchronicity makes this ridiculously potent. Augmented to 3pp, you effectively give anyone within touch range a free standard action, which can be used at any point before their next turn. Given that this includes yourself, you can then manifest a second Synchronicity, and then a third... depending on how many power points you have stored up, you can give your allies a ridiculous number of standard actions without even sacrificing your turn.

When I showed this to my DM, he immediately house-ruled that you can only cast Synchronicity once per turn, in effect, disallowing Synchronicity chaining. That turns this build from a TO method of getting NI standard actions to a more reasonable, though still very powerful, party buffer. You do lose a caster level at this level, which definitely stings, but its hard to complain with what you are getting access to.

EL11: I am assuming for this level that your DM isn't letting you grant NI standard actions. However, even if he were, this is still a very worthwhile level. I would be assuming not, though. First of all, this level gets you quiescent weaving, which lets you store a spell that you can trigger into your tapestry as a move action. This can let you start off the battle granting your allies all an extra standard action, which is always incredibly useful.

Secondly, and more importantly, you gain access to 5th level spells here, and with your action points granted by being a Seer, you can cast Unfettered Heroism. This ridiculously bonkers spell gives you an action point per turn for its duration. Now, I mainly see action points referenced with regard to Artificers, but they have some incredible uses for normal casters as well. First of all, you can spend an action point to regain a spell you cast that round. That Unfettered Heroism? Yoink. You can also apply a metamagic feat for free. How about using your Unfettered Heroism to cast Persisted Unfettered Heroism. Yo dawg, I heard you liked Unfettered Heroism... This will let you then persist any buffs you want to (sharing the 2nd level and lower ones via the tapestry), and then, for the rest of the day, instantly recall any spells you cast, giving you effectively unlimited spells per day.

EL14: Finishing out War Weaver is essential. First of all, it gives you four spells in your Quiescent Weavings (four standard actions for everyone, including you, should give you quite a leg up on ending a battle). It also lets you share your 3rd-5th level persisted buffs through your tapestry, which your party will certainly thank you for. If you can get your hands on a Ring of Spell Storing, or even a minor one, any spellcaster allies you have can pass you any buff spells they have, which you can persist and pass through your tapestry. Most importantly, actually, however, the capstone of War Weaver extends your touch spells cast through the tapestry to close range, letting them be significantly more useful in an actual battle. Synchronicity can now be used each turn, and you will actually be able to target everyone, rather than just anyone standing right next to you.

EL16: Two more levels in Cerembrancer, combined with your Practiced Manifester feat, gets your ML up to nine. That's just enough to manifest Twinned Synchronicity. Eight standard actions to each of your allies as your initial move action is hard to overstate. You can also manifest it each round, giving all of your allies two standard actions. Your move action can be used with Psionic Meditation to regain psionic focus, just in time to do the same thing next turn.

EL18: Fatespinner is a nice little prestige class that is very easy to qualify for, but typically the benefits that it gives you aren't earth shattering. Fickle Finger of Fate, which you get at this level, lets you force an ally or an enemy to reroll any roll they just made as an immediate action 1/day. One of the other things that action points let you do is to get additional uses of per day abilities. If you don't need to recall spells you are casting with the action points, that means that you can use this ability every single round, if you'd like. Furthermore, given that you would typically use this to force an enemy to reroll a save on a spell you just cast, you can wait until after they roll the save before deciding if you want to recall the spell or force them to reroll.

EL20: This last trick is inspired by Piggy Knowles's White Elephant build, which you can find here (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?600206-Optimization-Showcase-in-the-Playground-The-White-Elephant). Wyrm Wizard gives you a new spell known; we will take as Tree Shape from the Druid list. Spellguard of Silverymoon lets us apply this personal spell with a touch, letting you turn an enemy into a Tree, with no saving throw, as a 2nd level spell. Reach Spell, which we got at 18th level, lets us extend that to a ranged touch attack as a 4th level spell, which is a much safer option. You do lose a caster level at this level to get this spell, but given that you got 9th level spells last level, and your Unfettered Heroism makes spells per day a thing of the past, you aren't really going to be missing those extra couple spells.



In summary, this build gets casting as a 17th level wizard and manifesting as a 5th level psion (ML 9) with infinite power points, and it can grant its allies standard actions out the wazoo. With quiescent weavings and Twinned Synchronicitiy, your allies will have an extra ten standard actions in the first round of combat, and two extra every round after that. You can also persist and share buffs better than most incantatrixes, retain many/most of the spells that you cast, force rerolls as an immediate action effectively at-will, and turn your enemies into trees without a saving throw with your lower level spells. If your DM allows Synchronicity chaining, your allies start combat with NI standard actions, and the rest of what you get is pretty irrelevant, but it still definitely doesn't hurt.

As an aside, one of the things I like the most about this build is that it is built to avoid dead levels. Aside from 2nd and 3rd level, which are painful on many characters, the closest things you have to dead levels are level 7 (where you get Extend Spell) and level 12 (which gives you a second quiescent weaving buff and the ability to cast 3rd level spells through your eldritch tapestry). Every single other level gives you either a new level of spells, a new level of powers, or a really useful class feature. That's one of those things that I try to build into every character that I can, and I feel like I really succeeded here, which I'm very happy about.

Please let me know if you have any questions or thoughts about the build!

Aracor
2020-10-29, 04:20 PM
May I ask how you qualify for Psycarnum Infusion at level 1? While the prerequisite is only Con 13, it also is a psionic feat. That means by default you need to have a PP reserve or a psi-like ability to take it. Unless I'm misreading, you don't qualify for that until you take your first Seer level at 3.

Other than that, it looks like you're assuming that you can get 2 power points infinitely because your Psycarnum Infusion feat treats you as if you'd fully invested the Azure Talent feat, and then you spend the points, and proceed to charge up the feat again when you need it?

Do you think that a DM would let that fly? It's similar to trying to use Eagle's Splendor to get extra turning attempts multiple times a day by increasing your pool. It seems to be RAW, but I'm asking if you think DMs would let that fly commonly.

Demidos
2020-10-29, 04:25 PM
It's been a long time since I looked at this, but I believe Azurin get 2 PP naturally.

Aracor
2020-10-29, 04:27 PM
It's been a long time since I looked at this, but I believe Azurin get 2 PP naturally.

No, they get 1 bonus essentia, no power points.

PoeticallyPsyco
2020-10-29, 06:46 PM
Definitely a cool build idea.

How are you qualifying for Cerebremancer? You need to be able to manifest 2nd level powers; normally you'd get around that by dipping Ardent the same level you take Practiced Manifester, but you're going Psion instead.

Olo Demonsbane
2020-10-30, 08:05 AM
May I ask how you qualify for Psycarnum Infusion at level 1? While the prerequisite is only Con 13, it also is a psionic feat. That means by default you need to have a PP reserve or a psi-like ability to take it. Unless I'm misreading, you don't qualify for that until you take your first Seer level at 3.

That's what I get for just reading the explicit prerequisites. Thanks for the catch!

Being Azurin isn't actually necessary for how the build ended up. We can get Eldritch Corruption for free, effectively, by having Moderate Depravity, which is actually a requirement for getting the feat in the first place. That means that we can switch to being a Psionic Race. I personally prefer Elans, both for the backstory potential and for the survivability inherent in combining Resistance and Resilience with infinite power points.

On a related note, I know you can't spend more than your manifester level worth of power points on manifesting a power; is there a rule that prevents you from using more than that on, say, a racial ability? Otherwise Resilience turns into a crazy-good defense once you hit level 6.

If you don't want to play with the Depravity-based bonus feats, you can switch Psycarnum Infusion for Shape Soulmeld (Strongheart Vest) and switch Azure Talent for Body Fuel. That should work just as well.


Other than that, it looks like you're assuming that you can get 2 power points infinitely because your Psycarnum Infusion feat treats you as if you'd fully invested the Azure Talent feat, and then you spend the points, and proceed to charge up the feat again when you need it?

Do you think that a DM would let that fly? It's similar to trying to use Eagle's Splendor to get extra turning attempts multiple times a day by increasing your pool. It seems to be RAW, but I'm asking if you think DMs would let that fly commonly.

Honestly, there are a good number of ways to get large numbers of free power points. The Azure Talent method is both fairly rules-tight and easy to qualify for, which is why I showcased that one, but you can also use Earth Power + Torc of Power Preservation, Body Fuel + Strongheart Vest, Manifester Arrows + Bestow Power, or something like that. If your DM has an issue with infinite power points, the rest of the build almost certainly isn't going to be allowed. :smallwink:


Definitely a cool build idea.

How are you qualifying for Cerebremancer? You need to be able to manifest 2nd level powers; normally you'd get around that by dipping Ardent the same level you take Practiced Manifester, but you're going Psion instead.

Applying Eldritch Corruption's heightening effect to your 1st level powers via Magic-Psionic Transparency.

A modified version of the build using Ardent is honestly not a bad idea; you would end up with 5th level powers at the end of this, which you could manifest into your tapestry. Anticipatory Strike is even more ridiculous when it is shared with your entire party.

If your DM allows Synchronicity chaining, a simpler build would be just Ardent 10, with the Dominant Ideal ACF. You could Manifest Twinned Synchronicity again and again without losing your psionic focus, effectively just giving yourself NI readied actions.

ExLibrisMortis
2020-10-30, 11:11 AM
I like the idea of using Spellguard + War Weaver for synchronicity. It's a great idea to use transparency to combine traditionally arcane-only abilities with powers. However, standard transparency rules do not extend to supernatural abilities like Eldritch Tapestry or Spellguard, so you cannot actually do this by default. A stupid reading of the Magic Mantle ability might force it, but I don't think that's very elegant.


Psionics–Magic Transparency: Though not explicitly called out in the spell descriptions in the Player’s Handbook or the magic item descriptions in the Dungeon Master’s Guide, spells, spell-like abilities, and magic items that could potentially affect psionics do affect psionics (unless the DM uses the Psionics Is Different option described later in this chapter). When the rule about psionics–magic transparency is in effect, it has the following ramifications.
Spell resistance is effective against powers, using the same mechanics. Likewise, power resistance is effective against spells, using the same mechanics as spell resistance. If a creature has one kind of resistance, it is assumed to have the other. (The effects have similar ends despite having been brought about by different means.)
All spells that dispel magic have equal effect against powers of the same level using the same mechanics, and vice versa.
The spell detect magic detects powers, their number, and their strength and location within 3 rounds (though a Psicraft check is necessary to identify the discipline of the psionic aura). Dead magic areas are also dead psionics areas.

To share synchronicity, you need an affinity field or a spell or spell-like equivalent.

In addition, synchronicity does not qualify for Spellguard without Magic of the Land, so even if the combination works, you can't use it everywhere. Yes, yes, there's always an acorn of far travel, but still.


The second problem is with Azure Talent. Once again, I like the idea, but it doesn't work by RAW. Azure Talent doesn't grant temporary power points, it grants real power points, which are not lost first and are subtracted from your daily limit no matter what you do to that limit. If you spend all your pp plus the four from Psicarnum Infusion, you will have, on the next round, a daily power point limit of X, and X + 4 points spent. If you increase X by 4, you're still sitting at 0 pp remaining.

Now, there are plenty of other ways to restore power points. Affinity field will do it, of course. My favourite is based on Linked Power + Metapower (Linked synchronicity). This combination reduces the manifesting cost of whatever is linked to the synchronicity by 1, at the cost of your psionic focus. It also reduces manifesting time to pretty much zero, which is nice for astral construct. Since bestow power costs 3 pp and restores 2 pp, you need one more point of reduction to come out ahead. I'd usually go with a torc, but if you're forced to use the bad MIC version, you may need to cheese a bit and manifest synchronicity Linked synchronicity Linked bestow power for 1 pp and two foci, gaining you 2 pp. You regain the foci with your synchronicity actions, so this restores 1 pp per round. Naturally, a Dominant Ideal ardent does it much better, but DA ardents can simply manifest an infinite chain of Linked synchronicities with no feat investments at all, so they can do whatever they damn well please with their ten thousand standard actions per round and stay out of this discussion.


The third thing I'm really not sure about is conflating the UA action point system with the Eberron action point system. Clearly, the ECS system is based on the UA system, but they are not the same. I would rather think that the ECS system (which is what fate points are like) is an updated non-variant that supersedes the UA system, leaving the UA system very much as the unusual variant it always was, on par with all the other stuff in that chapter (hex grid, damage conversion, bell curve rolls). In other words: I don't think this works, either.

As an aside: How high were they when they wrote that section? I know UA is a bit funky at times, but damn...


Fourth, it's Cerebremancer (cerebrum + -mancer), not Cerembrancer.

Olo Demonsbane
2020-10-30, 02:10 PM
I like the idea of using Spellguard + War Weaver for synchronicity. It's a great idea to use transparency to combine traditionally arcane-only abilities with powers. However, standard transparency rules do not extend to supernatural abilities like Eldritch Tapestry or Spellguard, so you cannot actually do this by default. A stupid reading of the Magic Mantle ability might force it, but I don't think that's very elegant.

To share synchronicity, you need an affinity field or a spell or spell-like equivalent.

In addition, synchronicity does not qualify for Spellguard without Magic of the Land, so even if the combination works, you can't use it everywhere. Yes, yes, there's always an acorn of far travel, but still.

Well, that smarts a bit. I've been playing for so long with a more generous reading of transparency that I had no recollection that it applies solely to spells, SLAs, and magic items.

If we do assume that the Magic Mantle would allow it to transfer, shuffling the build to use Ardent instead of Psion wouldn't be a terrible thing. Wizard 2/Ardent 1/Cerebremancer 2/Spellguard of Silverymoon 4/War Weaver 5/Cerebremancer +4/Wyrm Wizard 2 with Practiced Manifester gets 6th level Ardent powers, and while you lose the action points, if they do indeed work like they do in Eberron instead of UA, that's not as huge of a loss.



The second problem is with Azure Talent. Once again, I like the idea, but it doesn't work by RAW. Azure Talent doesn't grant temporary power points, it grants real power points, which are not lost first and are subtracted from your daily limit no matter what you do to that limit. If you spend all your pp plus the four from Psicarnum Infusion, you will have, on the next round, a daily power point limit of X, and X + 4 points spent. If you increase X by 4, you're still sitting at 0 pp remaining.

Now, there are plenty of other ways to restore power points. Affinity field will do it, of course. My favourite is based on Linked Power + Metapower (Linked synchronicity). This combination reduces the manifesting cost of whatever is linked to the synchronicity by 1, at the cost of your psionic focus. It also reduces manifesting time to pretty much zero, which is nice for astral construct. Since bestow power costs 3 pp and restores 2 pp, you need one more point of reduction to come out ahead. I'd usually go with a torc, but if you're forced to use the bad MIC version, you may need to cheese a bit and manifest synchronicity Linked synchronicity Linked bestow power for 1 pp and two foci, gaining you 2 pp. You regain the foci with your synchronicity actions, so this restores 1 pp per round. Naturally, a Dominant Ideal ardent does it much better, but DA ardents can simply manifest an infinite chain of Linked synchronicities with no feat investments at all, so they can do whatever they damn well please with their ten thousand standard actions per round and stay out of this discussion.

Okay, with that reading, I can see why it wouldn't work. Linked Power + Metapower + Earth Power would do it as well, though the torc is better if you are at a high enough level that it would be possible. And yes, Dominent Ideal ardents can just really break the game without even really trying.



The third thing I'm really not sure about is conflating the UA action point system with the Eberron action point system. Clearly, the ECS system is based on the UA system, but they are not the same. I would rather think that the ECS system (which is what fate points are like) is an updated non-variant that supersedes the UA system, leaving the UA system very much as the unusual variant it always was, on par with all the other stuff in that chapter (hex grid, damage conversion, bell curve rolls). In other words: I don't think this works, either.

That would explain why I never saw Unfettered Heroism talked about on the same level as Incantatrix and similar ridiculous metamagic reducers. I've only played with them using the UA variant, so I kind of assumed it was all the same.



As an aside: How high were they when they wrote that section? I know UA is a bit funky at times, but damn...

You know that somewhere out there, someone has only ever played D&D on a hex grid...



Fourth, it's Cerebremancer (cerebrum + -mancer), not Cerembrancer.

That's what I get for thinking spell check will fix all of my spelling mistakes. :smalltongue:

ExLibrisMortis
2020-10-30, 07:12 PM
If we do assume that the Magic Mantle would allow it to transfer, shuffling the build to use Ardent instead of Psion wouldn't be a terrible thing. Wizard 2/Ardent 1/Cerebremancer 2/Spellguard of Silverymoon 4/War Weaver 5/Cerebremancer +4/Wyrm Wizard 2 with Practiced Manifester gets 6th level Ardent powers, and while you lose the action points, if they do indeed work like they do in Eberron instead of UA, that's not as huge of a loss.
Yep. Though to be honest, I don't like reading the Magic mantle as different from transparency. In an actual game, I'd just convert Spellguard to psionics and be done with it. Better to have honest homebrew than a tortured reading. But this is TO, and tortured readings are fair game while homebrew is not :smalltongue:.


Okay, with that reading, I can see why it wouldn't work. Linked Power + Metapower + Earth Power would do it as well, though the torc is better if you are at a high enough level that it would be possible. And yes, Dominent Ideal ardents can just really break the game without even really trying.
Another awesome combo ruined by sloppy editing. Azure Talent is both cooler and simpler to understand if it's houseruled.

(Incidentally, the psionic vestiges have the same problem.)


That would explain why I never saw Unfettered Heroism talked about on the same level as Incantatrix and similar ridiculous metamagic reducers. I've only played with them using the UA variant, so I kind of assumed it was all the same.
Right, yeah. I think Eberron's more limited version is more balanced out of the box, but the UA version has a lot more potential--it has that "crazy mad interaction with everything" that makes optimization interesting. I really like the way you can improve e.g. Blind-Fight with action points (which is totally reasonable as well!). Takes a fair bit of work to extend to every feat, to the point that you'd effectively have two-tier feats (regular benefit, action point benefit), but I could see that working for an OGL clone.

In Eberron, you can still do some funky stuff with Primal Scholar, which lets you apply metamagic with action points, but you have to spend 1 point per adjusted level, so it's mainly useful for cheap/heavily reduced feats. Only takes a two-level dip, and with a lot of reduction, you can even apply it to +5 metamagics (with Easy, Practical, Halruaan Elder 1, Incantatrix 10 or Dweomerkeeper 10), but Persist is tricky. Metamagic School Focus, I suppose, for three Persists from one school? Slaymate and Persist every Necromancy spell? It's an interesting coincidence how Persist is exactly "balanced" against the number of metamagic reducers you can get pre-epic.


You know that somewhere out there, someone has only ever played D&D on a hex grid...
Running into a squares game must feel so clunky...

Rebel7284
2020-11-01, 03:09 AM
This thread made me think, and why bother with psionics when you can share spells that give you actions?

Wizard 5/War Weaver 4/Spellguard of Silverymoon 4/Sacred Exorcist 1/Silver Pyromancer 1/<Whatever> 5

Store Favor of the Martyr/Favor of Ilmater and Celerity x 2 and release it as a move action.

Also eventually you can just cast Time Stop on other people with Spellguard of Silverymoon.

If you want to recharge you spells you can still do it with a few metamagic reducers + twin spell + sanctum spell + Mage’s Lucubration or just Absorption + metamagic.

flappeercraft
2020-11-01, 04:10 AM
So yeah the Unfettered Heroism doesn't really help with the spell recovery since it's not a thing in the Eberron version of action points (where Unfettered heroism comes from). But I have an entire handbook for spell recovery (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?576339-Spell-Slot-Recovery-Handbook-3-5) so take your pick. I have a couple listed combos at the bottom but its also rather easy to use the stuff in other ways that work pretty effectively aswell.