Crusher/Slasher feats

[Scarytincan]

So with the possibility of these feats coming out with Tashas I've been taking another look at these for theory crafting and on the one hand, I like that their effects are once per turn meaning they can proc again on opportunity attacks (minus 20 speed? I don't see anything about it not stacking... A party with multiple slashers?), on the other hand there's a lot of anti synergy with other feats and things that would normally want to go with the playstyle.

For instance, slasher gets completely overridden by sentinel, negating any cool use of speed reduction stacking on an AoO and frankly being anti synergistic with pretty much any build that would in theory want to look at this feat that might also/instead look at sentinel. Sentinel is basically always the better choice between the two with slashers only real benefit being it's a half feat, or a poor man's version of sentinel. I was excited to theory craft this feat with a glaive somehow, but it always seems to come out feeling like mostly a waste, or at best a half feat to impose an effect on crits.

Similarly but at least a bit less so is crusher vs mobile. Admittedly my monk bias will show in this one, and this one synergizes quite nicely with sentinel for other classes, but on monks at least it's the same kind of conundrum. Too feat starved on a monk to really justify both, want to like this for it being a half feat and can be applied via sling, but in practice is kind of unreliable for a monk to take for the sake of a skirmishing fighting style due to really wanting that knock back on your last attack, and being screwed if it misses.

At the least I came up with an amusing build of taking both feats on a monk race with claws so both effects can be applied together to an enemy and getting a plus 2 dex outta it.

What are your thoughts? Has anyone else come up with a build that really makes good use of slasher, especially one that wouldn't just be improved with sentinel? The best I can do is use both and apply slasher to one enemy and save sentinel aoo for another.

Or what about the crusher vs mobile debate?

[Unoriginal]

Monk + Crusher is a rather awesome way to move enemies. Especially with the Drunken Master.

Enemy gets to your group? Can push them 20ft back (assuming all attacks land) then walk back to your spot at lvl 5.

In any room where there is something you can push the enemy in (traps, hole, deep water pool, sawmill, cliff, etc), it's pretty great.

[x3n0n]

Or what about the crusher vs mobile debate?

I had the same problem you did--the natural fit is Monk, but you REALLY want it to be the last hit, and what if you miss? I think you can't rely on it unless you ALSO take a "free" Disengage-like effect like Mobile, Drunken Master, or Open Hand (which has its own risks if you miss with both flurry hits or miss a save instead of cancelling reactions).

I'd be more optimistic about just treating it like a free half-ASI feat for a VHuman/custom-origin or to even out an odd score, especially if I expected to have battlefield hazards around: Spike Growth, Create Bonfire, Conjure Animals, etc. Then I'd want to have some minimal investment in sling or Magic Stone, which become something like a mini-Repelling-Blast plus occasional "Guiding Bolt" when they crit.


Can push them 20ft back (assuming all attacks land) then walk back to your spot at lvl 5.

Note: the UA version (haven't seen Tasha's) says you only get one push per turn, not per hit: "Once per turn, when you hit a creature with an attack that deals bludgeoning damage, you can move it 5 feet to an unoccupied space, provided the target is no more than one size larger than you."

[Unoriginal]

I had the same problem you did--the natural fit is Monk, but you REALLY want it to be the last hit, and what if you miss? I think you can't rely on it unless you ALSO take a "free" Disengage-like effect like Mobile, Drunken Master, or Open Hand (which has its own risks if you miss with both flurry hits or miss a save instead of cancelling reactions).

I'd be more optimistic about just treating it like a free half-ASI feat for a VHuman/custom-origin or to even out an odd score, especially if I expected to have battlefield hazards around: Spike Growth, Create Bonfire, Conjure Animals, etc. Then I'd want to have some minimal investment in sling or Magic Stone, which become something like a mini-Repelling-Blast plus occasional "Guiding Bolt" when they crit.



Note: the UA version (haven't seen Tasha's) says you only get one push per turn, not per hit: "Once per turn, when you hit a creature with an attack that deals bludgeoning damage, you can move it 5 feet to an unoccupied space, provided the target is no more than one size larger than you."

Damn, I misread/misremember that. Thanks for correcting me.

Well let's hope they buffed it for the book, then.

[Blood of Gaea]

Quarterstaff builds with PAM would be pretty happy to tack on Crusher. Knocking an enemy back 5ft means they have to eat a PAM reaction attack. A Bugbear could use the push on their first attack without having to worry about reaching the enemy with the following attacks.

Slasher is a neat addition to a crit fisher, like a Barbarian/Champion Fighter. The ~34% chance to crit at least once with two attacks means you'll be debuffing an enemy every 3rd round or so, which isn't bad at all for a half-feat.

I could also see some potentail to put Slasher on a Hexblade with Elven Accuracy, because they have an extremely high crit chance. It's awkward to fit it in at low levels when you'd want a +1 to Dex though, so I only see it as potentially useful for T3, or more likely T4.

[Hytheter]

I'm considering both Piercer and Crusher for an Assassin/Glooom Stalker/Battle Master, both to make use of those auto crits. In piercer's case it would just be to pile some extra d8s onto my surprise nova. But crusher is more interesting, pull out a sling and you can get advantage on your next turn (which is extra nice with elven accuracy) and for the rest of the party as well. I probably won't get both, if either, but they're on my radar.

[MrStabby]

Crusher seems like it should be the stronger feat as it both enables and rewards critical hits.

Sadly, it just seems to push Hexblade/Elven Accuracy really...


Or... the order of scribes wizard UA. Change ray of frost to slashing damage and slow them down more... or push them further back with bludgeoning. Maybe use a warlock multiclass for eldritch blast and invocations so you can push and slow them all over the place?

So hexblade 2, Scribe 2, sorcerer X (for quicken, mainly to explore the idea) that picked up elvish accuracy and crusher would have a decent chance of picking up a few nasty criticals with hexblade's curse. Any attack has a decent chance of being a crit and making every subsequent ray be made with super advantage and piling on ever more critical hits.

[jojosskul]

Crusher seems like it should be the stronger feat as it both enables and rewards critical hits.

Sadly, it just seems to push Hexblade/Elven Accuracy really...


Or... the order of scribes wizard UA. Change ray of frost to slashing damage and slow them down more... or push them further back with bludgeoning. Maybe use a warlock multiclass for eldritch blast and invocations so you can push and slow them all over the place?

So hexblade 2, Scribe 2, sorcerer X (for quicken, mainly to explore the idea) that picked up elvish accuracy and crusher would have a decent chance of picking up a few nasty criticals with hexblade's curse. Any attack has a decent chance of being a crit and making every subsequent ray be made with super advantage and piling on ever more critical hits.

I only have the UA version in front of me, and not the leaked Tasha's version, but I don't think that works. In the UA version you can switch the damage type when you cast a spell using a spell slot. Unfortunately cantrips aren't affected. It would seem to work with Scorching Ray however, but a half feat that doesn't increase your casting stat to give an extra effect to only your attack roll leveled spells (of which there aren't really that many) doesn't seem worth it.

[Hael]

Quarterstaff builds with PAM would be pretty happy to tack on Crusher. Knocking an enemy back 5ft means they have to eat a PAM reaction attack. A Bugbear could use the push on their first attack without having to worry about reaching the enemy with the following attacks.


I don’t think that works bc the movement is forced and thus doesn’t trigger the reaction?

Similar to how repelling blast doesn’t trigger OAs.

The new astral monk will definitely enjoy this feat a lot. It gets a couple more attacks relative to normal monks as well as reach. A bugbear astral monk could have enormous melee control from great distances (new wording adds 5 feet as opposed to setting it to 10).

[x3n0n]

Crusher seems like it should be the stronger feat as it both enables and rewards critical hits.

Sadly, it just seems to push Hexblade/Elven Accuracy really...


Or... the order of scribes wizard UA. Change ray of frost to slashing damage and slow them down more... or push them further back with bludgeoning. Maybe use a warlock multiclass for eldritch blast and invocations so you can push and slow them all over the place?

So hexblade 2, Scribe 2, sorcerer X (for quicken, mainly to explore the idea) that picked up elvish accuracy and crusher would have a decent chance of picking up a few nasty criticals with hexblade's curse. Any attack has a decent chance of being a crit and making every subsequent ray be made with super advantage and piling on ever more critical hits.


I only have the UA version in front of me, and not the leaked Tasha's version, but I don't think that works. In the UA version you can switch the damage type when you cast a spell using a spell slot. Unfortunately cantrips aren't affected. It would seem to work with Scorching Ray however, but a half feat that doesn't increase your casting stat to give an extra effect to only your attack roll leveled spells (of which there aren't really that many) doesn't seem worth it.

So the key components are EA, Crusher, expanded crit range, and a multiple-times-per-turn bludgeoning attack that doesn't use Str, and some way to get initial advantage.

If racial feats really lose the pre-requisite in Tasha's, you can do it with custom/vhuman.
* Hex 1+ (for Cha-wielding & Curse), class with Extra Attack/Thirsting Blade, PAM/qstaff, EA, Crusher or
* Monk, EA, Crusher, something to expand crit range (Hex 1? Champ 3?)

Monk looks like fun: lots of attacks, ways to get advantage (stun, OH trip), one fewer feat (fully online at 6+). There's also nothing really unnatural in the build until you need to expand your crit range, which could be optional anyway.

[Blood of Gaea]

I don’t think that works bc the movement is forced and thus doesn’t trigger the reaction?

Similar to how repelling blast doesn’t trigger OAs.
I believe you misunderstood me.

1. Attack the enemy, knocking them 5 feet away.
2. Make any additional attacks you have.
3. End your turn.
4. If the enemy wants to step back to within 5 feet of you, Polearm Master will give you an AoO.