"Normal Gal" Quarterstaff Master

[Draz74]

Character concept: person who can pass themselves off as a normal commoner rather than an adventurer, except for being really really good at hitting things with a stick. Not quite as agile and lucky as Mat or as big and beefy as Little John, but something in between the two (and female for variety). Not a spellcaster.

I'd like to avoid UA and similar sources for this build, except for things that are about to come out in Tasha's.

I'm thinking of going pure Fighter, even though a dip in Barbarian or Monk has some obvious benefits.

Folk Hero is obvious for Background. I'm torn on whether going Halfling instead of VHuman is too adventurer-ish. Delaying Polearm Master hurts, but rerolling nat 1's and access to the Second Chance feat are appealing.

AC is a major concern, as wearing armor (especially heavy) isn't very "normal commoner" and getting both Dex and Str super high takes a while. Maybe elven chain armor beneath clothing is a fair cheat? So I'm still considering the Barbarian dip, but I'd like to find other ways to (temporarily?) boost AC. Bards have a few ways, but alas they're locked behind a spellcasting class. Defensive Duelist would be excellent if it didn't require a finesse weapon; one-handing the staff and wielding a rapier in the other just for parrying isn't the flavor I'm going for.

Fighter subclass is a good question. Battle Master seems the most obvious, but can also get its abilities poached to some degree by a feat. Samurai is generally excellent (except for granting proficiency in skills that don't seem very commoner-ish). Champion may actually not be terrible when considering the Crusher feat, which is pretty much a given.

What do you think is the best compromise between mechanics and flavor for this concept?

[nickl_2000]

The ways that I see it are to either

1) Take a level in monk so that you can get unarmored defense and can use the quarterstaff with Dex + PAM
2) Take Magic Initiate: Druid to get shillelagh and use Wisdom for your staff.
3) Magic Initiate: Wizard for Mage Armor and something else.
4) find a race that you don't need to worry about dex to get AC (tortle, lizardfolk, or loxodon)

If it were me, I would take 1st level monk. The bonus action punch makes PAM not as necessary (or at least it's a good cover until you get PAM at 4). You can choose your race to be whatever is fun for you, sounds like halfing is what you want. Then 19 fighter to get all the ASIs you need to get good AC and all the feats you need.


Fighter subclass, battlemaster really does make the most sense to me, although Samurai is another decent way to go. There is nothing in Samurai that doesn't make you seem like a normal commoner. Also, while not as exciting Champion would be a very good choice here as well. EK would permit you to pick up Mage Armor as one of the spells known, if you can get to level 3 that would take care of you need to get a boost in AC.

[Unoriginal]

Is your character trying to fool someone into thinking she's just a Commoner?

Any character with the Folk Hero background won't be just a normal person, and in principle won't be perceived as such.

My advice? Start as a Barbarian. You don't have to roleplay/fluff the Rage as anything but your character fighting with extra effort.

That way you don't have to worry about wearing armor.

[RogueJK]

AC is a major concern, as wearing armor (especially heavy) isn't very "normal commoner" and getting both Dex and Str super high takes a while.

1 level of Monk lets you use DEX for your Quarterstaff attacks, as well as use DEX+WIS for AC without armor. That removes both STR and armor from the equation. You're just a normal gal with some clothes and a staff.

Going Monk 1 also lets you use your Bonus Action for a d4+DEX Bonus Action attack, even before you get Polearm Master at 4th level.

So a Halfling Monk 1/Battlemaster X with high DEX and high WIS is how I'd do it. With point buy, something like:
STR 8
DEX 15+2
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 15+1
CHA 10
Start Monk 1. Take Great Weapon fighting style at Fighter 1. Take Polearm Master at Fighter 4. Crusher at Fighter 6. +2 DEX at Fighter 8 . +2 WIS at Fighter 12. +2 WIS at Fighter 14.

Choose Battlemaster Maneuvers that fit the classic "staff fighter" flavor, such as Trip, Disarm, Lunge, Sweep, Riposte, etc.

[J-H]

Insightful Rogue has no spellcasting, and simply hits harder through good aim (Insight checks vs opponent Deception checks).

[CTurbo]

I'd go Monk all the way. Focus on Dex and Wis and have a good AC in regular clothes. Talk to your DM and see if you can re-flavor unarmed strikes as off-end staff strikes. They both deal d4+Dex bludgeoning damage so I don't see an issue. I'd allow it with the Polearm Master feat as feat tax. I'd also allow the off-end staff attacks to scale with Martial Arts damage scaling even though it's probably not RAW. The PAM feat gives you a reaction attack too so it's not COMPLETELY terrible on a regular Monk anyway.

I mean see if your DM will let you use Flurry of Blows with the off-end of your staff if I wasn't clear enough.

[Amnestic]

I'd go barbarian rather than monk personally. I'd think that "normal girl" would still want to slap a bit of protection on at some point. A shoulderpad here, a bracer there. I think barbarian medium armour works well for that. Rage gives you a bit of extra *oomph* when you want it (refluffed however you want - maybe it's just pure adrenaline) and if you are going PAM then you don't need to worry about the monk martial art attack being wasted.

[Scarytincan]

I would think straight kensei monk would be easiest, but to be fair I always look to monks first :p and you may not want that feel.

Regardless, as you are looking at fighter anyway and will have the feat space, be sure to look at the crusher PAM sentinel combo so u can lock a target down at 10' like a glaive wielder!

[Sparky McDibben]

Not quite as agile and lucky as Mat

I am here for this reference; him kicking Galad and Gawyn's butts is still one of my favorite scenes from Wheel of Time.

I would recommend Dual Wielder; the +1 AC would help. If you're looking for someone who's not a caster, I recommend seeing if your DM is open to homebrew. A feat or magic item that lets you modify your AC calc as (10 + Dex mod + Cha mod) when wearing no armor would allow you to go full Battlemaster. It would also make your character more MAD, offsetting some of the fighter's ASIs.

[RogueJK]

I would recommend Dual Wielder; the +1 AC would help.

Using a Quarterstaff is not dual wielding, so the Dual Wielder feat doesn't get you any benefit.

(In some previous editions, using a two-ended weapon like a staff or Darth Maul-style double-bladed sword was a form of dual wielding, but no so in 5E.)

[da newt]

Is your goal to appear not to cast spells / have any magic and wear no armor, or to build a PC with no magic or armor?

You can make most any melee build work with a staff, PAM, and something for AC.

[Sparky McDibben]

Using a Quarterstaff is not dual wielding, so the Dual Wielder feat doesn't get you any benefit.

(In some previous editions, using a two-ended weapon like a staff or Darth Maul-style double-bladed sword was a form of dual wielding, but no so in 5E.)

Thanks for the catch!

[KorvinStarmast]

The bonus action punch - or kick or head butt :smallwink: By the way, nice post.

For the OP. I suggest the following for your normal gal quarterstaff ace.

vHuman. Monk. Drunken Master or Way of the Open Hand. I'd suggest the former since you'll get an additional skill at level 3, Performance, which will help you be a little better at fooling people.

Feat: Magic Initiate. Druid. Guidance and Shillelagh cantrips. (You'll want guidance for those frequent deception efforts).


Fairie Fire or Fog Cloud as the first level spell (you'll only use these when you are out in the wilderness or down in the dungeons, not around town or your cover will be blown. Faerie Fire if you'd like to have some fights with advantage on attacks or see invisible critters, Fog Cloud to hide or get away or ranged attacking enemies move ... fog cloud is a very flexible spell.

But, if you fee lthese are too ostentatious, Healing Word or Goodberry fit with 'tough to notice' spells once per day. Either will work fine for your theme.

Background: Criminal (Fence; you know people who need goods at a discount, but you don't draw attention to yourself)
Tools: Gaming set (dice or cards), Thieves tools.
Stat array: S 8 D 15+1 C 14 Int 8 Wis 15+1 Ch 10.
Skills: Acrobatics, Insight, Deception, Stealth, Perception. {Performance if you go Drunken Master} That's why I suggest 10 in the Cha (average looking, innocuous, does not stand out in a crowd, but no negative mods to peformance, deception, etc)


Performance. Your Charisma (Performance) check determines how well you can delight an audience with music, dance, acting, storytelling, or some other form of entertainment. But when it comes to story telling you might be spinning a tall tale or just a bald faced lie ... :smallbiggrin: ... or drawing attention to "little old me" to divert attention from someone else in the party doing something, after which you blush and get all flustered and go on about how you are terrified of speaking in public ...

At levels 4 and 8 boost your Wisdom to max. Your stunning strike, etc, will more often succeed as you boost your Spell Save DC that is based on Wisdom. Your quarterstaff attacks, based on wisdom, get boosts to attack and damage.

If the campaign reaches level 12 I'd move Dex to 18, but most campaigns don't last that long, and at that point, in Tier 3, your cover is kinda blown anyway. You've saved at least one Barony or local Dukedom ... there will be fame since you hang with other adventurers. At that point, the world's your oyster. And if you find a book that boosts Wisdom to 22, Read It! :smallsmile:

Go forth and casually kick butts. :smallbiggrin:

You can also instead choose Alert or Mobile instead, but I thought I'd make a different suggestion.

[Scarytincan]

Oo drunken master is another really good recommendation that fits well. Can just refluff it away from being intoxicated and towards flashy staff moves

[Gtdead]

If you are thinking about Barbarian dip, why not go all the way? A totem barbarian is good defensively and can hit stuff hard, although you will have to find a way to heal back all the health damage and short rests can only do so much..

Otherwise monk is always an option, like others suggested.

[Naanomi]

Not *exactly* what you are going for, but if you are real subtle on your spell use (or use it all for Eldritch Smite); Hexblade (or another warlock) does a pretty good job at 'looks like just a normal person' while still meleeing it up with their good looks swinging a stick around

Getting Shillelagh via Magic Initiate makes Ranger (hunter or monster slayer) pretty 'wisdom centralized' as a melee combatant and functional, though you may end up having to strap in some armor for full efficacy

[solidork]

Love how everyone in this thread is just ignoring almost everything about the OPs requests and suggesting builds with a bunch of magic and spells and stuff.

I'm playing a character tries to appear unassuming, and I've found that your best bet for looking like you're not wearing armor is a Mithril Breastplate.

Have you considered the Cavalier? Its focus on defending others is a good fit for someone who learned to fight in order to protect people - a common trope for folk hero types. Being good with horses is a reasonable "commoner" trait, even if you don't plan on fighting from horseback. Finally, all of the opportunity attack features feel appropriate for someone fighting with a staff - you're a whirlwind, striking everyone around you, controlling their movement. You get a trip ability which is on point for a quarterstaff user, but it doesn't work quite perfectly since you can't weave it into a flurry of attacks you're making against someone right next to you.

The only downside is that you're quite MAD for a fighter. You need 14 Dex for your AC, and then you've got an ability that keys off of Str and one that keys off of Con.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'm playing a character tries to appear unassuming, and I've found that your best bet for looking like you're not wearing armor is a Mithril Breastplate. If one is offered at level 1, brilliant suggestion. But if one is starting at level 1 you will not find that item to hand (generally). And a level 1 PC won't have the cash for one anyway.

Have you considered the Cavalier? If one assumes the magic item, not a bad follow through.

[solidork]

If one is offered at level 1, brilliant suggestion. But if one is starting at level 1 you will not find that item to hand (generally). And a level 1 PC won't have the cash for one anyway.
A fair point! Its not totally unknown for this type of character to have an heirloom in fiction - Frodo, for example. Definitely something that needs approval from your DM, though OP did mention wearing Elven Chain in the first post. A Mithril Breastplate explicitly says it can be worn under clothes and has the same AC.

Maybe multiclass one level into Barbarian and go unarmored until you can get your hands on this kind of item?

It kinda sucks that Protection requires you to be wearing armor, so it doesn't work well if you're multiclassing with Barbarian to keep the "I'm just a gal with a staff" aesthetic. Mariner is pretty good (thats what I took on my Warlock/EK staff fighter) but its UA and didn't get the official treatment, so it might not get approved.

[Naanomi]

Love how everyone in this thread is just ignoring almost everything about the OPs requests and suggesting builds with a bunch of magic and spells and stuff.
Well... options are kind of limited. Once someone suggests 'Barbarian' and 'Monk' (and only a handful of subclasses for these if we want to be strict); and possibly multiclasses from there into Fighter and/or Rogue... no magic/no armor takes everything else off the table for all practical purposes and the conversation is over

[Draz74]

Sorry, I should have been more clear in the OP, I'm thinking of a character who thinks of herself as an ordinary person too, not just can pass herself off as one by trickery.

Since it appears I wasn't missing any tricky ways for a pure Fighter to boost her AC greatly, I guess I'll have to go with Unarmored Defense from Monk or Barbarian. Either one can be re-flavored as a pretty "normal person" if only one level is taken, but I think I'm leaning towards Barbarian more of the two. If only because I feel like Strength should still matter to the character I have in mind.


Well... options are kind of limited. Once someone suggests 'Barbarian' and 'Monk' (and only a handful of subclasses for these if we want to be strict); and possibly multiclasses from there into Fighter and/or Rogue... no magic/no armor takes everything else off the table for all practical purposes and the conversation is over

Yeah, options were kind of limited. Cuz I already had a decent amount of character concept in mind. But there's still subclasses and feats and Fighting Styles to discuss.

Speaking of which, I've gotten some votes for Battle Master and a surprising recommendation of Cavalier. But I still think I'm leaning most towards either Samurai or Champion (with the caveat that normally I wouldn't consider Champion, but with the Crusher feat ...). Any votes between those for a Barbarian 1 / Fighter 19?

And are there feats I should be considering beyond Polearm Master, Crusher, and Martial Adept?

It is indeed a shame that the Defense fighting style requires wearing some kind of armor (you said Protection, but that's the one where you defend your allies with a shield). With that in mind, what Fighting Style should this build use? Probably Unarmed Fighting?

[KorvinStarmast]

OP did mention wearing Elven Chain in the first post. A Mithril Breastplate explicitly says it can be worn under clothes and has the same AC. Yes, I just can't assume an item when I propose a build on this board, usually, without getting a bit of push back. :smallwink:

If I ever play AL again, I have enough I think to trade in for an item like that, which would allow me to put together a build with an item assumed. But AL has gotten wierder than it was as of season 8, so I stopped at that point.

For the OP.

With that in mind, what Fighting Style should this build use? Probably Unarmed Fighting? If you go Barbarian 1 Fighter 19, Fighting style for GWF might go with a quarterstaff.

When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit. That's a good start, anyway, if your theme is quarterstaff fighting. Barb 1 Fighter 19 offers you the most ASIs, I think.

[Amechra]

I honestly think that you can get away with flavoring a Barbarian as a normal person, as long as you pick the right subclass. You be stuck with Berserker, though - the rest of the canon subclasses for Barbarians are explicitly magical.

[Naanomi]

What kind of stats do you consider ‘too high’ to be a normal person anymore? CON and WIS would be easy to hide but... it gets hard to say you are an ordinary person at 20 STR or DEX I’d think; which may ultimately limit the value of more ASI’s to some degree

[Floogal]

What type of quarterstaff can you use? Is it allowed to be enchanted?

Another consideration for Kensei Monk is that at level 6, any plain ordinary quarterstaff you pick up will count as magical for overcoming resistance/immunity.

[Draz74]

For the OP.
If you go Barbarian 1 Fighter 19, Fighting style for GWF might go with a quarterstaff.
That's a good start, anyway, if your theme is quarterstaff fighting. Barb 1 Fighter 19 offers you the most ASIs, I think.
Oh yeah, I was mixing up GWF with GWM again. Thinking that a Heavy weapon was required for some of the benefit of GWF. Since it's not, that's the obvious choice of fighting style.

Unarmed could still work too, though. Grab an enemy and beat them over the head with the staff while they're grappled ...


What kind of stats do you consider ‘too high’ to be a normal person anymore? CON and WIS would be easy to hide but... it gets hard to say you are an ordinary person at 20 STR or DEX I’d think; which may ultimately limit the value of more ASI’s to some degree

I was kind of avoiding thinking about that, but now that you bring it up ... yeah, it's hard to entirely downplay 20 STR or DEX. Maybe 18, though, if you don't make a big deal of it, could fly?


What type of quarterstaff can you use? Is it allowed to be enchanted?

Another consideration for Kensei Monk is that at level 6, any plain ordinary quarterstaff you pick up will count as magical for overcoming resistance/immunity.
Yeah but a Monk 6 can just do so much other crazy stuff.

I guess an enchanted quarterstaff could be used by this character?

[solidork]

It is indeed a shame that the Defense fighting style requires wearing some kind of armor (you said Protection, but that's the one where you defend your allies with a shield). With that in mind, what Fighting Style should this build use? Probably Unarmed Fighting?

Some things to think about - is this person trained in ranged weapons? Did they need to hunt to survive? You mention Wheel of Time in the OP, and you could honestly argue that the three rivers boys have the archery fighting style. The usual optimization strategy is all about hyper specialization, but I personally prefer building generalists and it could say something interesting about your character while shoring up a common weakness of a Str fighter.

Why did she learn to fight? Like I said in my post suggesting Cavalier, ordinary people often learn to fight in order to defend themselves. If this is the case for your character, the Interception fighting style could be an interesting option. I haven't played with it, but it seems powerful early on - synergizing well with Rage damage resistance, and you have expressed worries about your survivability at those levels. It competes with PAM for your reaction, which most people would consider a bad thing, but I personally like when I have meaningful decisions to make. Do I need to be defensive? Do I need to protect an ally? How likely is it that I can trigger PAM? Once you get Crusher then the PAM reaction is much more reliable, so you might find yourself using it less.

Also, as a side note, I don't think that the Samurai bonus proficiencies are a mismatch for this character archetype. In stories, the folk hero is often exceptionally persuasive - when they're being sincere. The abilities you get could make you very good at manipulating people, but if you make the roleplaying choice to speak from the heart then you'd be embodying that archetype quite well in my opinion.

[Talionis]

Barbarian is very MAD. You end up wanting Dex, Con, and Strength. Monk at least allows you to drop Strength for Wisdom. Monk1/Fighter X is not very magical and Monk 1 doesn’t get Chi so it feels less magical. You also are free to jump into Ranger for another martial style, again 1 level has no magic and it’s generally easy to fluff Ranger spells as less magical.

My go to normal is Rogue, but sneak attack doesn’t work well with sticks.

[CTurbo]

I was kind of avoiding thinking about that, but now that you bring it up ... yeah, it's hard to entirely downplay 20 STR or DEX. Maybe 18, though, if you don't make a big deal of it, could fly?


Yeah but a Monk 6 can just do so much other crazy stuff.

I guess an enchanted quarterstaff could be used by this character?


Honestly, Monk is easily the best and easiest way to do this. You could downplay the Monk's abilities if you wanted. You could even downplay 20 Dex and 20 Wis. I think it would be easier than trying to downplay 20 Str or Int. You could even give this character a subpar Int and roleplay it more like ignorance than pure stupidity.

If you are set on Fighter, it would work and be fine after a level of Monk or Barbarian. Battle Masters can do some "fancy" stuff too though. Champion might be better for an inconspicuous adventurer.

I'd rather have a level of Monk than Barbarian because with Monk you'll only ever need Dex and Wis, but with Barb you'll want to boost Str, Dex, and Con if you want a decent AC.

[solidork]

Monk also means that you're less dependent on PAM - the reaction attack is still good, especially with Crusher, but if you want to pick a non-human race or a feat that expresses your background or aspects of your character besides "fight good" then you aren't sacrificing as much because you've got a bonus action attack already. In your OP you mentioned that playing a halfling would be too "stereotypically adventurer" but as far as the PHB is concerned, I'm pretty sure Halflings are the least likely race to become adventurers. Maybe you meant that if you see a halfling that has left home they're more likely to be an adventurer? Obviously it depends heavily on what your GM thinks!

(As an aside, I didn't remember that PAM uses the "opportunity attack" language and was assuming that it didn't interact favorably with the Cavalier's ability that gives them an opportunity attack every turn - thats kinda nuts with Crusher. Someone approaches you, you smack them, knock them back and reduce their speed to 0.)

[Naanomi]

A level in rogue for 'expertise: performance/deception' might go a long way if the 'just a normal person' is indeed an act

[loki_ragnarock]

Champion Fighter (3) synergizes pretty well with Berserker Barbarian (X).

Play a half orc.

Reckless Attack, Expanded Crit Range, and Extra Crit Die (piling on come the later end of the build to total out at 4 extra die on a crit come 20) mean that sometimes you just go full Gallagher on those watermelons.

On the defense side, sure there's unarmored defense that allows you marginal defenses while wearing nothing more than denim shorts; it's not armor, but it's not nothing. But mostly on the defense side you have Rage on your side. And if that doesn't work out, you get a once a day get out of jail free card on hitting 0 hp. And some day, your gain the ability to ignore common debilitating mental effects when it comes clobbering time.

So mundane offense. Mundane defense. And sometimes you feel tired at the end of a fight.

And there's nothing more mundane that crushing, bone deep weariness at the end of a hard day amongst the lower classes.

Start barbarian, get to extra attack, grab three levels of fighter, go back to barbarian and ride it out.

Point buy lets you start with Str 16, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 10.

And... don't take polearm master. You've got a bonus action attack when you want it. Instead, take Crusher if it's available to you and increase *everyone's* ability to inflict critical hits. Or shove things off of cliffs or into dangerous terrain. All while boosting your dex to an even 16 and enhancing the defensive power of your denim shorts. From there, all you really need is to maximize your strength and con... in the second half of the build where the boosts to hit will start being needed.

What this build gets from pole-arm master is pretty limited; so skip it. Just hit things with a staff, and hit them a few more times when you engage your fury of blows.

Want to do more damage? Use your staff two handed and have an AC 16. Want to take less damage because you're out of rage for the day? Use it one handed with a shield for an unarmored but shielded AC of 18. By 4th level.

If you're okay with wearing medium armor, you can start with 17 str, 14 dex, and boost strength when you take crusher. That'd probably be modestly more optimal, but is it as fun as rocking denim shorts? Methinks not.

[Blood of Gaea]

What about something like:

Dex: 14+1
Con: 14
Wis: 15+1

Race: Variant Human

VHuman Feat: Crusher (+1 Dex) UA

ASI 1: +2 Dex

ASI 2: +2 Dex

Levels: Monk 1/Battle Master Fighter 6/Kensei Monk 2

Fighting Style: Unarmed Fighting UA

---

From level 2, you'll be making 1d8+Dex with your staff, and 1d6+Dex with your bonus action. Don't forget you can deal additional damage to a grappled enemy. Consider dumping Int and Cha for a decent Str and grab Athletics proficiency.

At 9th level, you can start getting +2 AC by making one unarmed attack as part of your action. You'll also be able to afford a few Flury of Blows a short rest at this point.

Battle Master adds a little burst damage and utility.

---

This might not be a very strong build, but I think it's good enough while still fitting the concept.

---

You could also consider asking your DM if you could flavor a double bladed scimitar as a quarter staff, and take the Revenant Blade Feat. From there I think you could make a totally acceptable Rogue/Fighter, especially if you'd be willing to use light armor.

[Keravath]

One point I'd make is that a level 20 anything isn't an average commoner. It would be hard for any character to think of themselves as just a normal person when the normal person is down after one hit and it takes 30+ hits for the level 20 fighter (going with the 4hp commoner).

Even with just PAM, the level 6, 1barb or monk/ 5 fighter will be making 3 attacks that are really effective while the typical commoner standing beside them will have one weak attack. The commoner will only be able to stand looking in awe at the woman with the staff who seems to think of themselves as an "average person". They aren't.

So the real question is which choice of character makes you feel least exceptional.

Oddly enough perhaps, I'd tend to lean towards monk for this since the monk is very self sufficient. The ki doesn't have to be magic, it can just be the character exerting herself more. Dodge, dash, disengage or a couple of quick attacks as a bonus action - that is just because she is quick but it does tire her out after a while. Maybe other folks aren't as quick but she isn't really exceptional just fast. Stay away from monk subclasses that cast spells or do more magical seeming things.

I'd just go with monk because it would probably be among the easiest for the character to just pretend to herself that she is normal ... just a bit faster or more aware than others but not really exceptional. The problem I find with barbarians and fighters for this is that she knows how to use armor and martial weapons, she could pick them up and wear them, the character KNOWS how. Of course she can still pretend to be a normal person who doesn't know these things but it is hard to hide knowledge from herself.

On the other hand, the monk has no armor proficiencies and only simple weapons and short swords. Knowledge that is maybe more consistent with just believing themselves to be no different from another commoner. Almost every monk ability can be described in terms of a character that is either just faster or more aware of their surroundings which would fit with being a commoner that is just a bit better than the rest.

Extra attack - she is just fast
Martial arts - doesn't everyone learn to hit folks with their hands, head, feet, elbows, knees when they're growing up? Though maybe I had an advantage with havin' 5 brothers to rough and tumble with
Extra move speed - she is just fitter and faster than most
Stuns - well she could be lucky or it may be that she can just naturally see the best spot to hit somebody, can't everyone?
Ki empowered strikes - she is probably entirely unaware that her hits are any different from another creatures.
Evasion - she is just quick
Stillness of Mind - can everyone just calm down enough to ignore that irritating thing that was bothering them
Purity of body - can't everyone feel that crud in their body and just tell it no?
Tongue of Shadow and Moon - I watch folks and can figure out what they are saying usually even if I don't really get their lingo, I can even get them to understand me though sometimes I have to talk real slow
Diamond Soul - probably completely unaware of the game effects as a character but she is so perceptive and quick that most things don't bother her much
Timeless Body - can't everyone keep their body going well? Good nutrition, diet, exercise - just like everyone else.

Open hand
Flurry of blows - just fast and good at hitting folks in the right spot to push em over
Wholeness of body - can't everyone just take a deep breath, calm down and feel better for it? I do.
Tranquility - when I wake up in the morning, I just feel so good and jolly, I get along with everyone for a bit. They pick on my friends before me.


Anyway, I think most of the open hand and probably drunken master abilities can easily be fluffed as just a normal person who is faster and more perceptive than most. A monk doesn't have to be a character that studies at a monastery or a martial arts trained specialist AND it has the proficiencies to support the character actually believing they are a normal average person while both the barbarian and fighter have weapons and armor knowledge that the character KNOWS that they have but for some reason pretends they don't just to pretend to be an average person rather than actually being one. So for me, monk would be the way to go for a character like this one.

[Anymage]

One point I'd make is that a level 20 anything isn't an average commoner. It would be hard for any character to think of themselves as just a normal person when the normal person is down after one hit and it takes 30+ hits for the level 20 fighter (going with the 4hp commoner).

I came here to say this. Also, a normal person would want to get far away from danger if possible, and strap on the best armor and weapons if they had to get into the thick of things. Characters start out as noteworthy talents and end up as demigods, at some point the fact that you prevailed over an impressive foe instead of getting splatted makes you more than normal.

Also agreeing that a lot of monk, especially open hand in tiers one and two, can be fluffed less as mystic martial artist and more as simple knack. Your talent still makes you noteworthy, but you don't see yourself doing anything that anyone else couldn't do.

[Sigreid]

This literally just sounds like a kensi monk to me with quarterstaff set as their weapon of choice.

[Unoriginal]

One point I'd make is that a level 20 anything isn't an average commoner.

Even a lvl 1 anything isn't an average Commoner.

[micahaphone]

I'd be tempted to go 1 level in monk for unarmored defense/martial arts, then rest into battlemaster fighter.

[Draz74]

Obviously at high levels, there will be a level of denial involved in the character thinking of herself as normal. But it's a question of how much that denial strains believability.

Lots of Monk fans in this thread. I just wish the Monk version of the build still had some need for Strength, as being weak but still hitting hard with the staff seems too martial-artsy to me. I guess I could go with decent strength despite it having no mechanical benefit? Or Cavalier has a strength-based ability, albeit it's a bonus action and this character will already be able to attack with bonus actions.


In your OP you mentioned that playing a halfling would be too "stereotypically adventurer" but as far as the PHB is concerned, I'm pretty sure Halflings are the least likely race to become adventurers.

That's actually an excellent point ...

[Unoriginal]

Obviously at high levels, there will be a level of denial involved in the character thinking of herself as normal. But it's a question of how much that denial strains believability.

I would consider any lvl 1 character who doesn't see how they're better than a Commoner to strains believability. But there are other NPCs who are much stronger than Commoners, many of them who would still be considered "normal".



Lots of Monk fans in this thread. I just wish the Monk version of the build still had some need for Strength, as being weak but still hitting hard with the staff seems too martial-artsy to me. I guess I could go with decent strength despite it having no mechanical benefit? Or Cavalier has a strength-based ability, albeit it's a bonus action and this character will already be able to attack with bonus actions.

Honestly I think you'd be better off with Barbarian if you want STR. That being said there is no issue with having a STR Monk.



That's actually an excellent point ...

Well, Halflings know that some of them have the urge to go on adventures. They call that "having fancy feet".

[Keravath]

Obviously at high levels, there will be a level of denial involved in the character thinking of herself as normal. But it's a question of how much that denial strains believability.

Lots of Monk fans in this thread. I just wish the Monk version of the build still had some need for Strength, as being weak but still hitting hard with the staff seems too martial-artsy to me. I guess I could go with decent strength despite it having no mechanical benefit? Or Cavalier has a strength-based ability, albeit it's a bonus action and this character will already be able to attack with bonus actions.



That's actually an excellent point ...

As far as damage goes ... you can get there by hitting hard or by hitting fast (ideally both :) ). In terms of the character you are trying to build perhaps think of it this way. If you wanted to have a boxer, you could go with a fast, quick, lightweight boxer who gets in a lot of effective blows or you could have a stronger, sometimes slower boxer with very powerful punches that you don't want to run into. Same boxing concept, one dependent more on dexterity and speed while the other dependent more on strength. Neither are in the category of "mystic martial arts". Using the monk chassis to build a character only limits you to the "martial arts" stereotypes if you want it to do so, otherwise everything in there can just be interpreted as a fast and quick gifted boxer/simple weapon type.

Mechanically, in terms of hitting things, if that is what actually matters for the character then barbarian/fighter can easily pretend. They can walk around with an AC based on con+dex, they can have a bunch of fancy fighter moves to go with their extensive training in armor and weapons. They can use strength for attacks and rage but their AC is likely to be low since it is hard to invest in str+dex+con ... and their int, wis, cha will likely be low. However, the character had to train somewhere - they weren't a normal commoner as they learned how to use all of these weapons and wear armor effectively - they can walk around without wearing it and look more or less like everyone else but they can't pretend that they don't know all these other things that they have trained extensively in before even becoming a 1st level barbarian or fighter.

It is your call obviously and if you find it too difficult to avoid the association of the monk class chassis with exotic martial arts then by all means pick another combination. However, the easiest to roleplay in which the character would truly believe that they aren't much different from everyone else would be the monk since everything in there can be fluffed as natural ability, speed, quickness and perception along with the kind of things commoners might learn along the way - simple weapons for example. She could have grown up on a farm with 5 brothers who enjoyed play fighting, hide and seek ... she's a bit of a tomboy ... learned how to use a staff on the farm since it is great as a walking stick or herding errant goats ... also whacking irritating brothers. :) ... Anyway, completely up to you but monk seems like the best bet to me for the character you have described.

P.S. If you want her to be a bit strong here are some options:
Variant Human with Observant feat (which plays into the perceptive aspect of the character) start with 13 str, 16 dex, 12 con, 10 int, 16 wis, 8 cha
or
Variant Human with Mobile feat (which plays into the fast aspect of the character) start with 12 str, 16 dex, 13 con, 10 int, 15 wis, 8 cha (use the first ASI to boost con and wis - or take observant)

Go way of the open hand - not kensai since the character would not have specialized weapon training - she would just be a natural with simple weapons and open hand/brawling. It may not be mechanically the "best" though I think it would be good but it would probably fit the described character better than other options.

[Unoriginal]

Question for OP: would hide armor be too "not normal" for your character concept?

'cause like, it's just wearing an outfit made of thick animal hides.

[CTurbo]

Monks don't have to completely dump Str. You could be a Variant Human Monk with Observant and start with 12 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 8 Int, 16 Wis, 8 Cha.
A Standard human can start with 13 Str, 16 Dex, 14 Con, 8 Int, 16 Wis, 10 Cha

[Talionis]

Proficiency in Athletics on a Monk will make you mechanically feel strong even if you dump Strength.

[Joe the Rat]

No matter what (unless you want to dive into my kind of wacky hijinks), you will need a level of Barb or Monk.

Monk is going to assume a fair bit of discipline and training, including a solid unarmed combat profile. You are leaning towards defense by awareness, and nimble fighting. You've definitely worked on this exceptional skill. If you don't see her ever growing into the heroic warrior mold, and definitely throwing punches in a pinch, monk is a solid starter. You can continue here with Kensei (magic +3 stick), but an everygirl monk should follow in the steps of the Everyman Monk - Jackie Chan - and go Drunken Master. 90% of your fighting and defense looks like "oh crap" maneuvers and a metric ton of lucky dodges. Flurry and walk away. Make the other guy hit his buddy. Classic. Stunning Strike is a bread-and-butter trick, even when you have Crusher on deck. You will eventually get proficiency in all saves, which is the key feature of the Survivor PrC from 3rd ed. If it gets too wuxia, dive out before it gets too weird.

Barbarian assumes a Battle Mind (Rage) - hot anger, cold focus, sheer backed into a corner desperation (Rat is a War Totem), etc. Something trips, and you become far more dangerous. This leans more towards power - you might not be ripped - you shouldn't be ripped - but you are going to have a solid core of strength, and can clearly carry your share of the load. Con for defense usually reads as a tough hide and thick muscle, high pain tolerance, or a natural sebaceous bronzing oil to make you all shiny (and slippery) like a bodybuilder. Or it could be having an indefatigable self defense twitch - you are blocking and dodging like crazy, but you can do that for days. Flavor with higher pain tolerance, and this flows nicely. B also blends nicely with upgrading your simple staff to an ashandarei down the road, if you like. It's also armor friendly, in case you want to add "studded leather jacket" or "bits of armor" to your aesthetic over MOAR CON.
I like grabbing B2 at some point for Danger Sense and Reckless Attack. You are better at avoiding danger, and you can control your offense and defense to a greater degree. If you stay Barb (consider it), Berserker is probably the most "looks normal" of the bunch. Save your Frenzies, and just power through everything. Though as a Folk Hero Chosen One(ish), you might play with Zealot (as a force of Light) or Guardians (maybe its ghosts, maybe its your Hero Nature protecting others).

Fighter is definitely a solid place to go - solid HP, tons of ASIs, and More Extra Attack. And Second Wind. That should be getting used every session in the "stand up, wipe the blood off your mouth, round 2, bitch" senses. Fighter is sort of the Be Normal, only More So chassis. For a stick fighter, I really am more inclined to Battle Master, especially off of Barbarian. Being able to size someone up is a fairly straightforward idea - and you'll develop a knack for it. But the key to fighting with a stick is Dirty Pool. Tripping, shoving, pinning, feinting, parrying... all very in flavor for the simple staff. Toss in a goad or a frighten if you want to put a little control in here. Oh, and it also ups your damage.
Samurai... is a pocket barbarian with a "hit stuff more" shtick. Adds a little DR to a monk starter, but kind of overlaps Barb - you're putting two sources into damage mitigation.
Champion, if you needed fighting styles or do crit fishing, would be good. It makes you more simple as a setup, but does not help your stick fighting significantly.

My oddball recommendation: Paladin. Be the Big Damn Hero. This is going to be a rough one (Str/Cha 13, in addition to your starter), and does bring you into magic. But you could just do what the White Room Paladins do, and use all your slots for Smiting. Unawares Healing hands also works. You can squeak by with just-enough Charisma, since you aren't throwing DCs or bothering with a deep spell list. Faith and Honor become strong elements in character with this one, and sooner or later your divine add-ons will get noticed by the character, if not everyone else.


If it were me... I think I'd go Monk to BattleMaster. I like the image of the Nimble Staff Striker, who can knock people around with all sorts of stick tricks. It also takes some of the heat off of Prime Physical Specimen Barbarian demands (STR/DEX/CON) to give you a little something under the hood to play with (WIS)