True Polymorph + Auril abuse?

[follacchioso]

True Polymorph allows to transform an object into a creature of CR9 of lower - which is an amazing way to create sidekicks for your evil wizard PC and his friends.

Once the True Polymorphed creature dies, it reverts to its original object form.
However, the Auril is a CR9 creature which, when it drops to 0 hit points, transforms into a second form, a CR10 large elemental.

My question is: what happens when a TP Auril dies? Does it revert to the original object, or does it transform?

[Hellpyre]

I'm not sure that you can polymorph into unique creatures, much less actual deities. It's also heavily implied by the module that the lower CR forms aren't her normal strength, which would be higher and also presumably be what you tried to True Polymorph into.

[sithlordnergal]

I'm not sure that you can polymorph into unique creatures, much less actual deities. It's also heavily implied by the module that the lower CR forms aren't her normal strength, which would be higher and also presumably be what you tried to True Polymorph into.


Mmm, technically you can use True Polymorph to turn into unique creatures. Its mostly implied because Shapechange, another 9th level spell that lets you turn into other creatures, specifically states "You transform into an average example of that creature, one without any class levels or the Spellcasting trait.", where as True Polymorph does not have that limitation. Meaning you could, technically, have a Simulacrum of yourself and True Polymorph it into yourself to give it full HP and spell slots that regenerate after a long rest.

As for the OP...you do gain the target's exact statistics, so I suspect it would turn into a CR 10 elemental after reaching 0 HP, then it'd turn back into the object after that Elemental dies. However, keep in mind that Dispel Magic and Anti-Magic Field would end the transformation early, even if the object was in Elemental form, because its still under the effects of that True Polymorph.

[Evaar]

The language I'm looking at for True Polymorph states the transformation lasts "for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies."

So any DM is going to rule dropping to 0 hit points reverts the target to their true form, rather than to Auril's second form.

[sithlordnergal]

Well...that's the tricky part. Her other abilities happens when her HP reaches 0, so which happens first? Does the ability go off, or does it turn back into an object. Another example is Shapechange or True Polymorph into a Balor. When they die they explode, doing 20d6 in a 30ft radius...does that happen if your Shapechange/True Polymorph form reaches 0 or not?

[MaxWilson]

Well...that's the tricky part. Her other abilities happens when her HP reaches 0, so which happens first? Does the ability go off, or does it turn back into an object. Another example is Shapechange or True Polymorph into a Balor. When they die they explode, doing 20d6 in a 30ft radius...does that happen if your Shapechange/True Polymorph form reaches 0 or not?

FWIW the optional Xanathar's rule for adjudicating the ordering of effects with simultaneous triggers is that the player who controls the character whose turn it currently is, gets to decide the order.

It's not a great rule and I don't recommend using it rigidly, but... it's there on page 77.

[sithlordnergal]

FWIW the optional Xanathar's rule for adjudicating the ordering of effects with simultaneous triggers is that the player who controls the character whose turn it currently is, gets to decide the order.

It's not a great rule and I don't recommend using it rigidly, but... it's there on page 77.

O_o That makes sense for most things...but with this situation it'd be a bit weird. Lets say that the Paladin decides to Smite his Druid friend that is Shapechanged into a Balor, and that Smite drops their Balor form's HP to 0: Maybe I'm reading it wrong, and correct me if I am, but since its the Paladin's turn, that rule says mean the Paladin decides if the Balor's explosion goes off. Yes?

[MaxWilson]

O_o That makes sense for most things...but with this situation it'd be a bit weird. Lets say that the Paladin decides to Smite his Druid friend that is Shapechanged into a Balor, and that Smite drops their Balor form's HP to 0: Maybe I'm reading it wrong, and correct me if I am, but since its the Paladin's turn, that rule says mean the Paladin decides if the Balor's explosion goes off. Yes?

Yes.

I agree that that seems inappropriate.

[J-H]

As a DM... sure, I'd allow it, for an hour or two.

Then Auril drops by to pay a visit, or she sends a large force of her clergy.

[Chronos]

I don't think order of triggers even matters, in this case. If the spell ending happens first, then the creature turns back into its natural form, and so loses Auril's abilities, including the turn-into-an-elemental ability, and so the creature stays in its natural form. If the turn-into-an-elemental happens first, then the creature momentarily turns into an elemental, then immediately turns back into its natural form. Either way, the creature ends up in its natural form.

[Evaar]

I don't think order of triggers even matters, in this case. If the spell ending happens first, then the creature turns back into its natural form, and so loses Auril's abilities, including the turn-into-an-elemental ability, and so the creature stays in its natural form. If the turn-into-an-elemental happens first, then the creature momentarily turns into an elemental, then immediately turns back into its natural form. Either way, the creature ends up in its natural form.

Correct. The spell ends when the creature hits 0 hit points. It doesn’t say “unless something immediately causes them to regain hit points upon reaching 0 hit points.” Both things can happen, the net effect is the same. The spell ends.

[Unoriginal]

As a DM, I would say that you can't transform into Auril at all, given her divine nature (which also make her immune to being transformed unless she wants to).

[False God]

True Polymorph allows to transform an object into a creature of CR9 of lower - which is an amazing way to create sidekicks for your evil wizard PC and his friends.

Once the True Polymorphed creature dies, it reverts to its original object form.
However, the Auril is a CR9 creature which, when it drops to 0 hit points, transforms into a second form, a CR10 large elemental.

My question is: what happens when a TP Auril dies? Does it revert to the original object, or does it transform?

Lets assume you can do this, god shenanigans and whatnot aside.

IMO: the Auril effect happens first, it transforms into the elemental. The elemental is still the Auril, it just has a new form. When it dies in this form, then it turns back into the lampshade or the teapot or whatever.

As a general rule of thumb, I use the MTG stacking rules to determine order. First one in, last one out. Polymorph is cast first and remains in play as a static effect. Auril "casts" her "evolution" second. With nothing further on the "stack", Auril's evolution being the last thing cast, now resolves first. Polymorph as a static effect then checks to see if the creature that was polymorphed is dead, which it isn't, so Polymorph remains in effect.

Lastly, at best you're getting 2 CR 9 creatures out of a level 9 spell(3 if we're including her 3rd form). Technically one in terms of turns, number of attacks, and so on. Not exactly a spectacular use of a 9th level spell, IMO. But fun certainly.

[Chronos]

Except that True Polymorph doesn't trigger reversion on being dead; it triggers on being reduced to 0 HP. Which is still a thing that happened.

[ThorOdinson]

Except that True Polymorph doesn't trigger reversion on being dead; it triggers on being reduced to 0 HP. Which is still a thing that happened.

This is correct. The condition by which the True Polymorph goes away has indeed happened.

[OzDragon]

Except that True Polymorph doesn't trigger reversion on being dead; it triggers on being reduced to 0 HP. Which is still a thing that happened.

Except they both trigger on being reduced to 0hp which happens first is the question. One that I don't have and answer for.

I will say one of them is more fun for the player and that's what the game is about.