Is this a house rule?

[Mr Adventurer]

Persistent areas

If a spell says that it takes effect when a creature enters it or moves into it, or similar wording, then the effect doesn’t apply if the spell is somehow moved onto a creature or created so it covers the creature. For example, Spirit Guardians. In such cases instead, a creature who finds itself inside such a spell’s area at the start of its turn suffers the effect at that time. This general rule applies when it is not clear; if a spell specifically says it takes effect immediately, then it still does so.

[Silly Name]

You are correct. Usually those spells have a saving throw at the start of the creature's turn/when they enter the area to see if or how they're affected, which is a way to streamline the spell's effects.

So, not an house rule. It's very much how spells like Spirit Guardians are worded and explicitely meant to function.

[Mr Adventurer]

You are correct. Usually those spells have a saving throw at the start of the creature's turn/when they enter the area to see if or how they're affected, which is a way to streamline the spell's effects.

So, not an house rule. It's very much how spells like Spirit Guardians are worded and explicitely meant to function.

No, it's a real issue and spells aren't always worded to solve it.

Here's Spirit Guardians - takes effect: "when the creature enters the area for the first time on a turn".

If I'm a Cleric and I cast the spell, the enemies surrounding me have entered the area of the spell on my turn.

If I cast the spell and move up to an enemy, it's entered the area of the spell on my turn.

If I cast the spell, and then an enemy grapples me and moves me so that other enemies are within 15 feet, then those other enemies have entered the spell on the grappler's turn.

If my ally Shoves an enemy into the spell, that enemy has entered the area on my ally's turn.

[diplomancer]

No, it's a real issue and spells aren't always worded to solve it.

Here's Spirit Guardians - takes effect: "when the creature enters the area for the first time on a turn".

If I'm a Cleric and I cast the spell, the enemies surrounding me have entered the area of the spell on my turn.

If I cast the spell and move up to an enemy, it's entered the area of the spell on my turn.

If I cast the spell, and then an enemy grapples me and moves me so that other enemies are within 15 feet, then those other enemies have entered the spell on the grappler's turn.

If my ally Shoves an enemy into the spell, that enemy has entered the area on my ally's turn.

Subject/object distinction, so of all your examples the only one that applies is the last one (in all other cases it's the spell's area that entered the enemy space, not vice-versa).

You can't destroy a vampire, or even expel it, by buying the title to its home ;)

[ff7hero]

No, it's a real issue and spells aren't always worded to solve it.

Here's Spirit Guardians - takes effect: "when the creature enters the area for the first time on a turn".

If I'm a Cleric and I cast the spell, the enemies surrounding me have entered the area of the spell on my turn.

If I cast the spell and move up to an enemy, it's entered the area of the spell on my turn.

If I cast the spell, and then an enemy grapples me and moves me so that other enemies are within 15 feet, then those other enemies have entered the spell on the grappler's turn.

If my ally Shoves an enemy into the spell, that enemy has entered the area on my ally's turn.

Only in the last case would I call that "entering" the spell (and I wouldn't die on that hill either), and that's fine. Stop trying to double dip your Spirit Guardians.

[Silly Name]

No, it's a real issue and spells aren't always worded to solve it.

Here's Spirit Guardians - takes effect: "when the creature enters the area for the first time on a turn".

If I'm a Cleric and I cast the spell, the enemies surrounding me have entered the area of the spell on my turn.

If I cast the spell and move up to an enemy, it's entered the area of the spell on my turn.

If I toss a bucket of water at you, did you dive into the water?


If I cast the spell, and then an enemy grapples me and moves me so that other enemies are within 15 feet, then those other enemies have entered the spell on the grappler's turn.

If my ally Shoves an enemy into the spell, that enemy has entered the area on my ally's turn.

The wording is "when the creature enters the area", not "when the creature is within the area". The creature must move, not you. Moving to include other creatures within Spirit Guardians' area means they roll their saving throw at the start of their turn if they're still within the spell's area.

[EggKookoo]

Maybe it's post Trick or Treating haze (our town does it on the 30th for some reason), but I'm having trouble understanding the issue.

If you cast spirit guardians where a creature is, or move it so that the creature is within its area of effect, the creature makes its save on the start of its next turn. Not immediately upon casting or moving it, but at the start of the creature's turn.

If a creature moves into your spirit guardians (whether on its turn or during someone else's turn), it immediately makes its save. If it moved as part of someone else's turn using its reaction somehow, it then makes a save again at the start of its turn.

[Unoriginal]

Maybe it's post Trick or Treating haze (our town does it on the 30th for some reason), but I'm having trouble understanding the issue.

If you cast spirit guardians where a creature is, or move it so that the creature is within its area of effect, the creature makes its save on the start of its next turn. Not immediately upon casting or moving it, but at the start of the creature's turn.

If a creature moves into your spirit guardians (whether on its turn or during someone else's turn), it immediately makes its save. If it moved as part of someone else's turn using its reaction somehow, it then makes a save again at the start of its turn.

Indeed. And if the creature inside the AoE is moved out of the AoE by another creature before the start of its turn, then it doesn't have to make a save at all.

[Mr Adventurer]

Subject/object distinction, so of all your examples the only one that applies is the last one (in all other cases it's the spell's area that entered the enemy space, not vice-versa).

That's helpful, thank you.


Only in the last case would I call that "entering" the spell (and I wouldn't die on that hill either), and that's fine.

Thanks for your interpretation.


Stop trying to double dip your Spirit Guardians.

Don't lecture me, that's rude. The thread is specifically about ruling to prevent "double dipping".


If I toss a bucket of water at you, did you dive into the water?

If you put a bucket on my head, my head enters the interior of the bucket.

[Lord Vukodlak]

The idea of damaging a creature multiple times in a round by having say multiple people move them in and out of a hazard isn’t considered a bug but a feature. I’d two character decide to shove the same enemy back and forth between a moonbeam. It’s considered a viable tactic.



You can't destroy a vampire, or even expel it, by buying the title to its home ;)
That actually depends on the setting. I recall on one show vampires couldn’t own property themselves and you could expel them by buying its home. Or kill them if you transferred ownership rescinded while having them locked in the basement.