[D&D 3.5] Master of many forms build help

[Brakiri]

Hi folks,

sorry to bother you with this, but i haven't played 3.5 for a long while and i need a character.
I always wanted to play a master of many forms and never got to it.

So i decided to try one.

Concerning the char iteself: I was thinking about a human male, 5 levels wildshaping ranger to get a little bit more BAB, but i'm not sure if druid wouldn't actually be a better idea?
I was thinking about concentrating on flexibility (+ utility) and combat support (helping the fighter out but not overshadowing him), but...a few spells definately wouldn't hurt.

I already read the momf bible at enworld but because i have to start with CL6 so momf level 1, ther eisn't much in the way of momf-abilities.

To be as useful and flexible as possible at the start of his "carreer" i would like to ask you for help, concerning what feats and items i should start with.
13000 GP are available but most of the suggested stuff is very expensive.

Thank you!

[Venger]

Since you've already read the momf bible, I assume you know most of the basics. Ranger is usually preferred because it beefs up your martial prowess, ba, etc over druid, since momf doesn't progress spellcasting so you're not missing out on so much.

There is one other way to enter momf more quickly. If you take mulhorandi divine minion, you can get wild shape at ecl 2 and then go right into momf, so if you're starting at level 6, you'll have 4 levels of momf.

Equipment wise, I like to suck all my gear into a glove of arming and then hold that on with a wilding clasp.

Down the line, armor of the beast (and the other items in the trappings of the beast, mantle of the beast and ring of the beast) are very useful for momfs.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Druid is probably a better idea than Ranger for a base class.
At ECL 6 your animal companion and spellcasting will still be relevant, and there are plenty of low-level utility spells that stay relevant even in the higher levels.
You can also trade out your 4th level ability Resist Nature's Lure for the Iron Constitution ACF (Cityscape), granting you immunity to nauseated which will be useful throughout your entire career.
It's a common and very nasty debuff.

Ranger would offer a little more BAB and 2 Favored Enemies, but that's about it.
You don't get extra attacks based on BAB since you use natural attacks and druid-based MoMF's generally don't have trouble hitting when shapeshifted, so it's a rather minor boost.

For items i'd focus on getting the universal necessities for now - stuff like a Handy Haversack, Lesser Rod of Extend (great for your hour/level buffs), wand of CLW or Lesser Vigor, Healing Belt, Cloak of Resistance +1 and so on.

Keep in mind that any worn item will require a Wilding Clasp to function while wild shaped, adding another 4k gp to the price, so it pays off to go light and look into combining items if possible.
The only exceptions to this i'm aware of are the Trappings of the Beast set (CC) and the Stormwalker's Raiment set (MIC).

Your best bet for now are probably going to be long-duration or downtime tools you can use before wildshaping though. Pearls of Power, the already mentioned Lesser Rod of Extend, things like that.
Getting even 1 or two slots filled with a magic item will wipe you out at your current WBL otherwise, though i'd at least consider the Shadow Cloak (DotU, 5500gp).

For the future i'd look into getting my hands on a Wildshape Amulet (MoF, 40000gp) or Skin of Kaletor (Dr#324), both of which boost your effective wild shape level.

[Doctor Despair]

I'd suggest Wildshape Ranger too, as it helps you in melee and gets you your prereqs. Take the ACF that swaps your animal companion for an urban companion for alertness, and get endurance naturally.

Necropolitan is a template worth considering as a wildshape ranger momf. Unlike druids, you don't have an oath to revere nature, so you can get undead immunities in all your forms and make your character more SAD (as you can dump con). As a MoMF, you can dump str and dex already. Extra Wildshape is good at level 6 to give you all-day forms however.

That leaves you with wisdom for will saves, but a regional feat (Keen Intellect) can swap that over to your int mod.

As an undead, you have certain vulnerabilities, so I'd suggest using Changeling as your race. Wildshaping and your natural disguise self ability mean you'll have +20 to your disguise check to appear not undead. Throw in a wand of Disguise Undead to block spells that would reveal your type, and you'll be golden.

That leaves your level 3 feat free. You could use Flexible Mind to make disguise and bluff class skills, possibly, or anything else.

[Zarvistic]

Another possible entry would be Initiate of Horus-Re for cleric or paladin. The special does state class feature tho, but could always ask the DM.


Necropolitan is a template worth considering as a wildshape ranger momf. Unlike druids, you don't have an oath to revere nature, so you can get undead immunities in all your forms and make your character more SAD (as you can dump con). As a MoMF, you can dump str and dex already. Extra Wildshape is good at level 6 to give you all-day forms however.
You can't wildshape if your type is undead, unless you take a feat for it.

[Doctor Despair]

You can't wildshape if your type is undead, unless you take a feat for it.

There is nothing precluding you from wildshaping while undead unless you are a Druid. Druids would immediately fall upon becoming undead, losing druid abilities and spells, as becoming undead presumably qualifies as ceasing to revere nature. Wildshape Rangers have no such restriction or mechanic; they can just wildshape.

[Gruftzwerg]

Have a look at my Papa Smurf build. It's a MoMF build that focuses on the Redcap (fey) form. Maybe not exactly what you are looking for, but the spell & magic item section could come in handy. Other than that it is a solid double ubercharger combo with a good selection of buff spells.


I was thinking about concentrating on flexibility (+ utility) and combat support (helping the fighter out but not overshadowing him), but...a few spells definately wouldn't hurt.
dunno if that will work out. Because how you are gonna pick a useful combat form while not at the same time overshadowing him? Why do you want to play a MoMF if you don't want to use its forms combat potential. If you are gonna selfrestrict you from strong forms anyway, a regular druid would fit this purpose the same way imho.

I would suggest to just include the party fighter into your buff routine while still using strong combat forms.

[Venger]

You can't wildshape if your type is undead, unless you take a feat for it.
Yes you can. Wild shape was changed to being based off alternate form in 3.5, not polymorph like in 3.0, so you no longer need to be living to use it.


There is nothing precluding you from wildshaping while undead unless you are a Druid. Druids would immediately fall upon becoming undead, losing druid abilities and spells, as becoming undead presumably qualifies as ceasing to revere nature. Wildshape Rangers have no such restriction or mechanic; they can just wildshape.
There isn't a rule that druids can't be undead. Undead are a part of nature like anything else.


I'd suggest Wildshape Ranger too, as it helps you in melee and gets you your prereqs. Take the ACF that swaps your animal companion for an urban companion for alertness, and get endurance naturally.

Necropolitan is a template worth considering as a wildshape ranger momf. Unlike druids, you don't have an oath to revere nature, so you can get undead immunities in all your forms and make your character more SAD (as you can dump con). As a MoMF, you can dump str and dex already. Extra Wildshape is good at level 6 to give you all-day forms however.

That leaves you with wisdom for will saves, but a regional feat (Keen Intellect) can swap that over to your int mod.

As an undead, you have certain vulnerabilities, so I'd suggest using Changeling as your race. Wildshaping and your natural disguise self ability mean you'll have +20 to your disguise check to appear not undead. Throw in a wand of Disguise Undead to block spells that would reveal your type, and you'll be golden.

That leaves your level 3 feat free. You could use Flexible Mind to make disguise and bluff class skills, possibly, or anything else.
As good as necropolitan is, losing your con bonus as a frontline melee fighter hurts since it doesn't change future hd to d12s.

Wis is better as a primary for momfs. They're not particularly skillful, and this way they can benefit from a monk's belt without taking carmendine monk, which is useful since they are often unarmored.

[Brakiri]

Hi all,

thank you all for your advice.
I think while the undead idea is nice, it does not really fit to the character i had in mind.

You offered so many good options that i'm more unsure about what to do than before ;)
Maybe it will help to tell you a little more about the other characters and the environment we are playing in.

In general this seems more like an "outdoor" campaign. We are exploring an abandoned part of the continent with old ruins and a few small colonist settlements, not major cities.
We have a bard, a cleric, two sorcerors (with different specialisations in spell selection) and a fighter.
So the group told me, they needed a rogue.
Rogues are not my favored class to play so i wanted to play something that can be versatile and even find other solutions to barred doors and traps, like flying and burrowing.
I also see that the group is rather lackluster in front melee fighters and i though i could supplement the fighter.
To clarify my statement above concerning helping the fighter, not overshadonwing it: It is one sensible precaution, also mentioned in the momf bible, that you should not use combat forms that outperform anything the group could master with a normal fighter.
If the DM sees this and sends more deadly enemies, the group may be in trouble.

I also planned to us a feat from Frostburn someday so that i can turn into a cryohydra in an emergency.

But back to the items, what do you think about this:
- Medium or heavy armor with a wilding clasp. Would give me more armor in the lower level forms?
- What about items/feats that would help me with higher HD-forms? Are there any?

As i only have 13000 GP, i would really appreciate if you could suggest a "set" within that budget that would fit the level and the circumstances we are in.
Later with more money i can focus on other items, but 13k is not a lot of money.

Thanks again for you help, as i said, i've been out of the game for nearly 10 years so you help is greatly appreciated. :)

[Brakiri]

Since you've already read the momf bible, I assume you know most of the basics. Ranger is usually preferred because it beefs up your martial prowess, ba, etc over druid, since momf doesn't progress spellcasting so you're not missing out on so much.

There is one other way to enter momf more quickly. If you take mulhorandi divine minion, you can get wild shape at ecl 2 and then go right into momf, so if you're starting at level 6, you'll have 4 levels of momf.

Equipment wise, I like to suck all my gear into a glove of arming and then hold that on with a wilding clasp.

Down the line, armor of the beast (and the other items in the trappings of the beast, mantle of the beast and ring of the beast) are very useful for momfs.

Hi Venger,

could you tell me little bit more about the divine minion?
How would one integrate this into the build?
Is this a template?

Thanks!

[Gruftzwerg]

Rogues are not my favored class to play so i wanted to play something that can be versatile and even find other solutions to barred doors and traps, like flying and burrowing.

If that is the goal, how about a warlock?^^

You start the early levels With Baleful Utterance to Shatter any obstacles in your way (doors, locks..) and Spiderclimb all day for your pseudo rogue feeling. Later you add Fell Flight for even better 3d movement. With Flee the Scene (aka Dimension Door + afterimage) you can enter & leave any building more silently (and even take people with you: depending on your level). Flee the Scene can also help your fighter buddy to reposition him for charging (if he intends to be an ubercharger?).

You could either play a ranged blastlock or go for some sort of meleelock. Since you wanted to help at the frontline, imho a glaivelock is best suited, since it can be build more tanky without loosing offensive power. But a clawlock could get the job done too. I can offer for both of em optimized builds (see signature) that you could alter to your desire and tune down to your groups power lvl.

A warlock is much easier to play than a MoMF where you have to keep track of all the forms that are available for you and you have more control about how much power you are building into your character (which can go through the roof if you intend to do so, but you don't have to go that far). MoMF will always/often be about not using the optimal forms available to you, because of trying not to overshadowing your teammates.

[Brakiri]

If that is the goal, how about a warlock?^^

You start the early levels With Baleful Utterance to Shatter any obstacles in your way (doors, locks..) and Spiderclimb all day for your pseudo rogue feeling. Later you add Fell Flight for even better 3d movement. With Flee the Scene (aka Dimension Door + afterimage) you can enter & leave any building more silently (and even take people with you: depending on your level). Flee the Scene can also help your fighter buddy to reposition him for charging (if he intends to be an ubercharger?).

You could either play a ranged blastlock or go for some sort of meleelock. Since you wanted to help at the frontline, imho a glaivelock is best suited, since it can be build more tanky without loosing offensive power. But a clawlock could get the job done too. I can offer for both of em optimized builds (see signature) that you could alter to your desire and tune down to your groups power lvl.

A warlock is much easier to play than a MoMF where you have to keep track of all the forms that are available for you and you have more control about how much power you are building into your character (which can go through the roof if you intend to do so, but you don't have to go that far). MoMF will always/often be about not using the optimal forms available to you, because of trying not to overshadowing your teammates.

Hi Gruftzwerg,

"Sagen wir mal so, die 2 Sorceror waren schon nicht geplant und mit dem Barden gibt es 3 Arcane Caster in der Gruppe, also wurde ich gebeten nicht NOCH einen Arcane Caster zu spielen ;)"

I've been asked not to play another arcane caster because there are already 3 arcane casters in the group.
The MoMF may be complex and i think i will need some time to get all the forms right (but the bible is a great help in thas regard) but i find the concept fascinating.
While i think i have to be careful with the more powerful forms, i think it will be fun to "intervene" if s*** really hits the fan.

[Venger]

I also planned to us a feat from Frostburn someday so that i can turn into a cryohydra in an emergency.

But back to the items, what do you think about this:
- Medium or heavy armor with a wilding clasp. Would give me more armor in the lower level forms?
frozen wild shape is popular for momfs.

Where are you getting proficiency with med/heavy armor? At low levels, this is probably not a good use of your resources. If you can afford to have a high wis, you are likely better off with a monk's belt, esp at low levels.

I think we've listed all the items that boost your effective wild shaping level. afaik, there are no feats that boost your effective wild shaping level


Hi Venger,

could you tell me little bit more about the divine minion?
How would one integrate this into the build?
Is this a template?

Thanks!
It is in fact a template (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a). You become an outsider and get at-will free action wild shape with a high hd cap. It's LA 1. Anhur is probably the best choice.

[Brakiri]

Hmm..unfortunately there is actually nothing i could buy with 13k, except the vest of many styles that would be of any significant help.
The monk's belt with the clasp ist above 13k, the wilding armor is above 13k.

Damn.

But i talked to the GM, so i can save the money until i earn some more.
So no harm done, just a little bit later ;)

[Doctor Despair]

Yes you can. Wild shape was changed to being based off alternate form in 3.5, not polymorph like in 3.0, so you no longer need to be living to use it.


There isn't a rule that druids can't be undead. Undead are a part of nature like anything else.


As good as necropolitan is, losing your con bonus as a frontline melee fighter hurts since it doesn't change future hd to d12s.

Wis is better as a primary for momfs. They're not particularly skillful, and this way they can benefit from a monk's belt without taking carmendine monk, which is useful since they are often unarmored.


That's a fair point about the HD. I suppose as an alternative, once could apply the Evolved Undead template for pseudo-HP (fast healing), or take Faerie Mysteries Initiate, but it's a non-issue here as OP doesn't like the idea of being undead.

OP: Perhaps consider Warforged, Adu'ja, or Volodni. The first is an LA0 "living construct," while the latter two are La2 plant races,, and you carry a lot of the benefits thereof into your wildshapes.

If you do go this route, Steadfast Determination can help you dump wisdom (if you don't want to go the Monk's Belt route). It lets you use con for will saves, and you will have a lot of high-con forms.

[Venger]

Monk's belt is definitely a good item for a momf, it's just too expensive right now. Given a normal 32 point buy, he should be able to put points in both wis and con since they're all he really needs.