Despise being Good: How to make this concept work?

[Adamantrue]

I have a character concept I want to play, but cannot figure out how to make it work.

The original concept was a Lawful-Evil character that, somehow, was forced to perform only good deeds. This character would only perform righteous deeds, but would be utterly disgusted by his actions, often voicing his disapproval.

For example, if the party were to capture an enemy, and wanted to get information about a future threat. That character might express his personal disinterest in preventing that threat, but would be forced to act in a way to prevent it. He might voice his thoughts of how he could torture the information out of the captive, to excruciating detail, but would refrain from taking such actions, and prevent others from doing them as well.

This character would loathe his existence, and wish to be free of this limitation, to the point that he even craved death.

*

The trick is how to impose these restrictions on a 1st level character. I don't want a anything like a Geas/Quest, as I don't want it to be something that can be dispelled (or equivalent/appropriate spell). I can't figure out a situation that would compel such character to behave this way of his own volition, even if it was a matter of honor and pride. I looked through BoED (and BoVD, in case I could retrofit possession into something a Celestial could do), and came up empty.

So, if there is nothing mechanical that could be done, I could use a good story-driven explanation. I'm just drawing a blank...

[Edit - the method inspired by this thread so far]

The talk about pacts inspired me, but from the wrong direction.

How about a daelkyr half-blood, mother worshipped Cthulhu or something, and totally play up the daelkyr nature as a corrupting force? The symbiont would be a semi-autonomous manifestation of this corruption, having always whispered its twisted thoughts into the characters ear. The character is a sort of doorway into the mortal realm, and if he allows his "soul" to become too polluted the door would open, allowing dark powers through.

Due to pride, spite, and a few other motivators I haven't fully thought through yet, the character refuses to perform acts that could tilt the balance, even if its against his inherent nature, to keep the door closed. In fact, he tries to act in ways to purify his soul, in case his existence was evil enough.

Gotta play the character as being slightly mad, in addition to evilly aligned. And figure out specifically why he fights it.

Thoughts?

[Saintheart]

Delve back into Forgotten Realms history and impose something like the Lyonsbane Curse (https://annex.fandom.com/wiki/Kelemvor_Lyonsbane) on the character. If the character attempts to carry out something against the explicit wording of the curse, they get turned into a housecat for 5 rounds.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

Maybe he's stuck in a Warlock pact or other class-based contract with a good outsider keen on redeeming him through community service?

[Gruftzwerg]

Why not just role play it as some kind of noble/royal family thing? You are from a known family and have to take care for your acts and get annoyed of the duty to be "good" all the time. You could roleplay something like a Paladin without taking the class (and the alignment restriction therefore) and be bored by your duties.

It all boils down that you have some kind of "social standing/status" that you want to preserve for your own benefit/interest and not for the sake of being actually good.

Hek, you could just be an annoyed but loyal soldier or even a simple but reliable mercenary that just sticks to his job while still being annoyed of it. Because of money and you don't know any other way to live.

Just be creative ;)

[Venger]

You could always just be a hellbred.

[The Viscount]

You might choose a different interpretation of something like the Knight or Paladin Code of Conduct as being more binding than a promise. Perhaps, for example if the character is a fey or similar creature for whom oaths are unbreakable law.

[Kitsuneymg]

Maybe you’ve been killed and made a pact with some super powerful being/god and you’ve got a new lease on life so long as you take good actions. It’s now in your best interest to do good, but nothing says you have to like it.

[Kalkra]

I have a character like this, but instead of being forced, he's more of a Pascal's Wager type. Honestly, I don't understand why anybody is evil, considering the confirmed existence of hell and all that, but regardless, I have a character who considers life to be a really unpleasant job that pays really well, so he refrains from doing all the stuff that he really wants to do, and became an adventurer partially so that he could violently murder people, because if they're evil it's okay. At least, he thinks so.

[Gnaeus]

My last character had a magical child archetype (PF) with the backstory that he had made a deal with powers to do good until he avenged the murders of his family. When play started, the murderers had died (the last one of natural causes) but since he didn’t kill them, he was held to his vow.

His familiar was an agent of the powers he made a deal with, so was essentially his parole officer. Whenever he tried to kill himself his good aligned persona would emerge like the hulk and stop him. He ultimately made a deal with his familiar that if he joined a good aligned group and didn’t actively try to kill himself he would be allowed to continue drinking himself to death with the added bonus that he might die in combat.

(You could also do it with a Hyde alchemist although not at first level, or a spiritualist with a phantom driving him to good.)

[Adamantrue]

The talk about pacts inspired me, but from the wrong direction.

How about a daelkyr half-blood, mother worshipped Cthulhu or something, and totally play up the daelkyr nature as a corrupting force? The symbiont would be a semi-autonomous manifestation of this corruption, having always whispered its twisted thoughts into the characters ear. The character is a sort of doorway into the mortal realm, and if he allows his "soul" to become too polluted the door would open, allowing dark powers through.

Due to pride, spite, and a few other motivators I haven't fully thought through yet, the character refuses to perform acts that could tilt the balance, even if its against his inherent nature, to keep the door closed. In fact, he tries to act in ways to purify his soul, in case his existence was evil enough.

Gotta play the character as being slightly mad, in addition to evilly aligned. And figure out specifically why he fights it.

Thoughts?

[Doctor Despair]

Maybe your character made a pact insidious for some benefit; in exchange, if he ever willingly commits an evil act, his soul will be irrevocably dammed. Your character thought he had some sort of loophole to trick the fiend (as a lawful character, he respects the letter of the contract, if not the spirit), but the fiend, being smarter than this character, gleefully points out that his loophole doesn't work the way he thinks it does after the ink dries. Now, he is forced to forever act in a good manner or face an eternity of torment.

[mabriss lethe]

A doubly cursed Helm of Opposite Alignment. The other component is the Delusion curse. As per Delusion, the helm wouldn't have its normal effect, instead it would just make you think it worked without actually doing anything and you can't be convinced otherwise.

[Segev]

Similar to but a bit more petty than the Daelkyr one: he's a half-fiend or tiefling or the like who's got a powerful evil outsider parent or ancestor who took great interest in raising him. He has all the instincts and evil nature of this heritage, and doesn't actually FEEL the "goodness" or pangs of conscience or even empathy that a good person would be driven to goodness by.

However, he has studied philosophy. A lot. And totally understands, at least to a more than superficial level, what "good" people do.

And he hates his evil outsider ancestor that took that special interest in him. His evil outsider ancestor wants him to be a paragon of villainy, and he's being a spitefully rebellious teenager. So even though he'd actually prefer, personally, to be doing the kinds of things that would make his parent-figure proud, he knows the best way to piss this ancestor off and spite him is to behave "good." So he will always, ALWAYS choose the "good" option as best he's able to discern it (using a combination of his philosophical studies and by asking "what would my ancestor want me to do?" and doing the opposite).

Not because he feels empathy for those he helps. Not because he wants others to be happy. Not to avoid pangs of conscience over hurting others. But to rub it in his ancestor's face, and never give the ancestor the satisfaction of seeing this promising progeny follow the destiny laid out by the ancestor.

[Reprimand]

Lots of pacts and this and that being thrown around but it really just sounds like someone with a good heart but a bad outlook.

The ******* with a heart of gold if you will.

Someone that struggles against their base urges but comes out on top despite kicking themselves for doing the "right" thing. Any jobs dealing with captives or being a bodyguard for a VIP of some kind would be a way to roleplay this "OH IT WOULD BE SO MUCH EASIER IF I COULD JUST KICK YOU IN THE NECK UNTIL YOU DIE BUT NOOOOOO!! I HAVE TO DO THE RIGHT THING!"

Maybe not happy about it but compliant at the least.

I suggest picking 1 or 2 "sins" to roleplay as your baser urges. How you choose to come out on top of those is your choice.

Or just an idiot that acts without thinking. Doing the morally correct thing and berating themselves for jumping the gun.

[Drelua]

As for why he fights bringing Cthulhu into the world, that's chaotic evil and he's lawful. Sure, the horrible deaths that would be inflicted on much of the world would be entertaining, but they'd be so sloppy about it. Oppressing a planet without any rules would just be a mess. Now, devils, they know how to destroy the world in an orderly fashion. Cthulhu? Guy's got no vision.

[Adamantrue]

If I were to run this character as a spellcaster, would you allow him access to Good spells? I want him to have an inherently Evil nature, even somewhat despising the Good deeds he performs. What about if Turn/Rebuke, if it ends up being on the table?

[Segev]

If I were to run this character as a spellcaster, would you allow him access to Good spells? I want him to have an inherently Evil nature, even somewhat despising the Good deeds he performs. What about if Turn/Rebuke, if it ends up being on the table?

The "spiteful teen" doing it to "get back at" a fiendish parent or ancestor despite sharing the ancestor's proclivities and desires? I'd say that one is evil. Doing good out of spite isn't really goign to get you up to Good alignment. At absolute best, it might even you out at Neutral. Maybe.

[Endarire]

Maybe he's felt forced into self-discipline to do good despite really not liking what it means.

[TheStranger]

Going another direction, how about enlightened self-interest/long con? I mean, "hero" is an objectively good gig. You go from nobody to one of the wealthiest and most powerful individuals around in no time flat, and everybody loves you. Plus, saving the world is kind of important - all your stuff is there.

So your character happened to fall in with these schmucks (the other PCs), and now he's got a good thing going. Killing things, taking their stuff, and the ladies love him. I mean, as soon as he gets a chance he'll ditch those suckers, preferably robbing them blind in the process, but in the meantime he's not going to jeopardize his shot at fame and fortune by being some kind of mustache-twirling idiot. No, not even when they're not looking - it would be a problem if they found out, and he's not some loser who can't control himself when it's called for. Sure, they're irritating do-gooders, but you don't get anywhere in life if you can't see the bigger picture. Besides, some of these quests they keep going on are actually kind of important. You can't enjoy your ill-gotten gains if the kingdom is enslaved by illithids, can you? But after the next dungeon, he's getting out of this game.

(Note that I'm not suggesting that this is flawless logic, especially in a world with evil gods. It's just a way your character could think, whether he's actually *right* or not.)

[Edea]

Vaguely reminds me of Granny Weatherwax (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granny_Weatherwax)

[Zhorn]

An idea I've had bouncing about my head for a character idea for a while was doing a variation on the Soul Splice V took back in comic 634, only it's not a 'power' thing.

The PC is acting as a prison cell for the evil soul of someone that is being prevented from being resurrected (the evil soul needs to be willing and able to be resurrected, but the splice was done to block the 'able' part). The PC still maintains their own moral compass, ethics, etc, just there's a dark voice constantly making them WANT to do evil things.
It has been going on for so long that part of the other personality is leaking through. Not enough to dive the PCs actions, but enough that voicing preferences for darker tendencies and thoughts has been normalized.

If the PC slips up and commits a heinous act it's not going to be the end of the world. No broken oaths, pacts, ridiculous consequences. It's just a thing that happened. Saves on having to keep track and justify between the player and DM on what is or isn't going to bring in some targeted response that wouldn't happened for any other player at the table doing the same thing.

If the PC dies and gets revived, the evil soul is being dragged along. It is functionally grafted to the PC's soul. It could act as a story hook to launch into an arc about who this evil doer was and why such measures were taken, or it could be left as a backstory detail, something from the past that the PCs won't have to deal with directly.

[the_david]

The charlatan that accidentally made a pact with a celestial. This one leans more to CN or CE, I guess. It's still a fun idea.

He made a pact with a celestial when his partner in crime died during a con gone bad. His partner came back to life, betrayed the charlatan and vanished. (Possible romantic interest?) From that moment he somehow gets dragged into these quests. He's since learned that it's best not to run away from a quest.

Edit: Or maybe he's in need of a little more encouragement. (https://youtu.be/pVORGr2fDk8)

[Adamantrue]

An idea I've had bouncing about my head for a character idea for a while was doing a variation on the Soul Splice V took back in comic 634, only it's not a 'power' thing.

The PC is acting as a prison cell for the evil soul of someone that is being prevented from being resurrected (the evil soul needs to be willing and able to be resurrected, but the splice was done to block the 'able' part). The PC still maintains their own moral compass, ethics, etc, just there's a dark voice constantly making them WANT to do evil things.
It has been going on for so long that part of the other personality is leaking through. Not enough to dive the PCs actions, but enough that voicing preferences for darker tendencies and thoughts has been normalized.

If the PC slips up and commits a heinous act it's not going to be the end of the world. No broken oaths, pacts, ridiculous consequences. It's just a thing that happened. Saves on having to keep track and justify between the player and DM on what is or isn't going to bring in some targeted response that wouldn't happened for any other player at the table doing the same thing.

If the PC dies and gets revived, the evil soul is being dragged along. It is functionally grafted to the PC's soul. It could act as a story hook to launch into an arc about who this evil doer was and why such measures were taken, or it could be left as a backstory detail, something from the past that the PCs won't have to deal with directly.

That is a really neat idea. I'm really torn, now.

[Gruftzwerg]

That is a really neat idea. I'm really torn, now.

How about being possessed by an evil Symbiont?
And if you're "hardcore", take a Fiendish Symbiont. They are by default evil and try to turn you to the dark side. With inbuild side-effects for "good" if you fail your Will Saves.

edit:
and IIRC we have spells to imprison Symbionts that they can't leave the body they are in at the moment. You could try to keep it imprisoned. To prevent it from doing any harm and try to suppress it with your extraordinary Will (rolls ^^).

[xXAmaroqXx]

A while ago i made a character around the concept of an orphan growing up in Cheliax. She was designed to become a lawful evil cheliaxian bladebound kensai magus (sword wielding battle mage) used for the Crimson Throne campaign in Pathfinder, so she was raised in an orphanage run by an evil guy who mistreated the children as slaves and hurt them a lot. Due to the great suffering and the constant summoning of imps and other devils within the city, the fabric between the worlds was a lot thinner, and some of the children in that orphanage started to worship the devils and asmodeus and begged them for help, seeing how turning to religion is what other people did and noone else came to save them. Some day, a devil appeared and started to indiscriminately slaughter the orphanage wardens and children alike, aside from those with a tainted seed in their heart. Taya (my character) was one of those, and as her wish to kill and murder those who mistreated her was so strong, she was willing to dedicate her soul to asmodeus in exchange for power. The contractor devil made the contract to trade her soul against the opportunity to have revenge on her oppressors and he gifted her an evil tome of forbidden knowledge (a spellbook) and within, the instructions to create an intelligent cursed weapon. She began to study the book and worked on acquiring her weapon, though at some point one of the oppressors found the spellbook and burned it, causing Taya to loose most of it as she saved a mere tiny bit from the fires. This however happened only after she managed to create the cursed weapon, a small dagger at that state, that guided her hand as the other children who also made contracts began the slaughter the night after her spelltome was burned.
After she killed a couple of oppressors in the orphanage together with other rioting children she managed to flee for the time being, though a few months later she noticed that she regretted trading her soul for the now mostly destroyed spellbook she slowly attempts to restore (explaining why she gets new spells on level ups) and that cursed sword that had a will on its own. Life left her with bitterness and a growing amount of grim and evil outlook on the world. However, as a couple of years went by, she began to understand that her soul in a devils possession is very bad and she decided to try and kill the contract devil that once made that contract with her. That is pretty much where the adventure would begin when she found out where the boss of that chain of orphanages was hiding.

Over time, taya began to turn on devils and tries to fight them now, desperate to get information on who she needs to kill and how to find them. In the meantime, she fights fire with fire, using evil spells and the weapons the devil gave her to wipe out the evil that made her life miserable - and she enjoys every second of it. Making evil people and their infernal masters suffer before she destroys them makes her feel powerful and awesome, and thus she revels in her darkness while at the same time she must try as best as she can to not fall entirely into it. She kills evil with glee and without mercy, locked in a near hopeless fight against an overbearing system and her enemy within to not become what she tries to wipe out.

Rather than being evil doing good, its more shes evil fighting other evil using evil techniques (prefers spells with evil descriptor, reflavoured fire techniques to represent hellish flames and the like, in addition to wielding an evil sword) and doing good deeds on occasion to not loose herself entirely. She didnt enjoy doing good, but saw it more as a necessity.
Rule wise she was a lawful evil character in an overall good party that doesnt oppose the good guys on every occasion or must do crimes because shes evil. Her evilness was mostly represented in her sadism and cruelty, while still treating her allies as valuable allies instead of backstabbing them eventually.

Mechanically, she used a trait drawback that reduced her will save by 2 if someone promises her substantial wealth or power as it taps into her desire to become stronger.

[Asmotherion]

A Cleric of a Lawful Evil Deity whose mission (by his god) is to slowly corrupt figures of authority in his city, and the way to do that is to gain their trust. So, he has to act like a Hero. If he fails, his Deity will remove his powers as punishment for going against his direct orders.

Thus, here is a mechanical reason, with a bit of context and flavor.

[ATHATH]

You could play a Warforged, either going for an HK-47 knockoff (perhaps with one of your other (Good-aligned) partymates being your "master"?) or an Asimov-esque lawset.

[Jay R]

I would play it like Snape defending Harry, or like Rocket being heroic as a Guardian of the Galaxy.

[aglondier]

Max out your Intimidation, get the most out of telling your enemies all the horrible things that you want to do to them, even if you know you cannot actually do them. As long as you don't actually perform the evil deeds, they don't get weighed against your soul...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Give a cursed magic item to the character as a graft (that can't be removed, and if it's damaged, it is restored when healed; while destroying the character's neck is probably not a great idea). It's a necklace of natural weaponry (unarmed strike) that is enhanced as a Good-aligned intelligent weapon that someone (in their infinite weirdness wisdom) cast greater humanoid essence on and then infected with carebear werebear lycanthropy (or whatever other flavor of Good lycanthrope you want; maybe a CG were-dire-raccoon?).

So the necklace grants its werebear intelligent weapon status onto the character's body via his unarmed strikes. So he's an Evil character possessed by a cursed werecritter that has taken over his body, although he's fully aware and capable of doing things when the item isn't in control.

Muahahahaha...

[edit] The same could be done with a Good-aligned ghost who goes around possessing Evil creatures, or an Evil ghost or fiend of possession stuck in a Good person's body who is strong enough to force the possessor to do as it wants. Bonus points if the Good ghost has lycanthropy and can push that into its host body.