RifleAvenger
2020-11-01, 05:11 AM
Preface
Greetings. My table has recently begun a side game of Pathfinder 1e where the list of allowed classes is restricted to Tier 4 and lower. I decided to play an Inspired Commander Cavalier (3pp archetype) focused on the use of Aid Another and other supportive abilities. While quite the different experience from my preferred playstyle (primary spellcaster), I've enjoyed it so far. However, I'm facing some serious questions in regards to future level-up and feat choices, and would like some advice.
The game started at 5th level, with two sessions played thus far. Thus, everything up to 5th level is locked-in until I level, when I can retrain feats. The GM has given me a few additional houserules to improve my capabilities:
* Perform [Oratory] as a class skill;
* No 1/minute limit on giving temp HP with Put Your Heart Into It;
* The Sense Motive portion of Antagonize adds +Int mod instead of +Cha mod to the subsequent Diplomacy or Intimidate check;
* Bodyguard works RAI instead of RAW (I can use it to defend an adjacent ally versus ranged attacks).
The Character:
Assuming 11 Cavalier/1 Fighter at retirement (home game, but same max lvl as PFS)
* Abilities: 16+2 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Con, 16 Int, 10 Wis, 8 Cha. Will increase Str at 8th and 12th.
* Feats: Combat Reflexes (1st), Duck and Cover (1st, Cavalier bonus), Bodyguard (3rd), Antagonize (5th), Power Attack (7th), Combat Expertise (9th), Swift Aid (9th, Fighter bonus), Teamwork Feat ??? (10th, Cavalier Bonus), Discordant Voice (11th), Cornugon Smash? (Training weapon or other item?). Retrain Duck and Cover to Harrying Partners (6th level).
This progression assumes only a one level dip into Fighter to pick up Combat Expertise lord of feat taxes so I can pick up Swift Aid. If there's any way to do this better than dipping into Fighter or a class > T4, please let me know.
* Traits: Fools For Friends, Bruising Intellect, Tactician, Overprotective [Drawback]
* Cavalier Order: Order of the Dragon
* Notable Skill Investments: Intimidate/Diplomacy/Sense Motive (for social pillar participation and Antagonize); Craft [Alchemy] (increase my versatility through the many alchemical weapons and items that exist, also provides some nice background fluff)
Tribin Highhill, LG Elf, Inspiring Commander Cavalier (Order of the Dragon) 5
Init +8 (+10 w/ Blood Boiling Pill); Senses - Perception +10, Low Light Vision
Defense
AC 22 (+3 Dex, +7 Armor, +2 Shield); Flat Footed 19; Touch 13
HP 44
Fort +6, Reflex +5, Will +3; +2 vs Enchantment, +1 vs Charms and Compulsions
Immunities: Sleep
Offense
Speed 20ft (30 out of armor)
Melee: Mstr. Elven Branched Spear +9 (1d8+6) or Mstr. Armor Spikes +10 (1d6+4)
Ranged: Mstr. Composite Longbow +9 (1d8+4 or Tangleshot Arrow) or Alchemical Weapons +8 (Variable)
Aid Another: Add +7 to an ally's next attack, AC versus next attack, skill check, or save.
Special Attacks: Challenge 2/day
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 5th; Cha Based)
1/day: Detect Magic, Read Magic, Detect Poison, Comprehend Languages
Statistics
18 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Con, 16 Int, 10 Wis, 8 Cha
Base Attack: +5; CMB +9; CMD 23
Feats: Duck and Cover, Combat Reflexes, Bodyguard, Antagonize
Traits: Fools For Friends, Bruising Intellect, Tactician, Overprotective [Drawback]
Skills: Diplomacy +7; Intimidate +11 (+16 w/ Gravelly Tonic); Kn. Local +7; Perception +10; Sense Motive +8; Survival +6; Perform [Oratory] +7; Craft [Alchemy] +13
Languages: Common, Elven, Draconic, Gnomish, Halfling
Special Abilities: Elven Immunities, Elven Weapon Familiarity, Inspiring Commands 15/day (Inspire Courage; Inspire Competence); Rapid Tactician 2/day; Put Your Heart Into It 6/day; Inspiring Voice
Major Gear: +1 Breastplate; +1 Buckler; Str Belt +2; Cape of Free Will +1; Wayfinder with slotted Cracked Dusty Rose Prism Ioun stone
The Rest of the Party
* A Shining Knight Paladin with a Spirited Charge build. Relatively strong build in combat, but inexperienced player. Also had a number of extra trained animals (beyond the mount) using Handle Animal, but they all died in the first two session.
* A Rogue/Slayer with a TWF/Feint based build, using a kusarigama.
* A ranged, physical Void Kineticist. Will use a heavy dose of 3pp materials at lvl 7 and up to support staying mono-void, adding various control-based infusions to their blast over time. For now, has issues with accuracy if I don't buff them.
Commentary
Currently, the biggest issue for me is mobility and positioning. I'm pretty slow, which hurts in finding good positioning. Retaining adjacency for effects dependent on it (e.g. Bodyguard) is highly fight dependent and inconvenient for certain PCs (the Rogue/Slayer), esp. since the Paladin player isn't very tactically minded. When I can set up my position well, it rocks. I do massively improve the party's stats just by existing, but the build seems clunky regardless. The GM has offered to let Bodyguard work on allies within my reach, instead of adjacency, but I think that could rapidly get out of hand if I ever get a consistent way to become large sized.
Low AC and low damage output are secondary issues currently, and will become much worse within a level or two. Hence why I'm prospectively thinking of taking Power Attack at 7th (better late than never?). AC will need to be adjusted for via future gear.
I know Antagonize is a rather disliked feat. Depending on GM adjudication, it can range from Ex mind control to completely useless (if it would provoke even 1 AoO, the ability fails). However, I trust my GM to handle it fairly; the current agreement is that the Intimidation mode essentially trades my action for forcing some form of aggression or action use from the target. It could be charging me, or it could be making a demoralize check, depending on the nature of the enemy.
I really don't want to dip Fighter, but it seems like the only way to grab Combat Expertise and Swift Aid before it's way too late in the character's career. I've considered making the dip sooner than later to get Swift Aid ASAP (at 7th), but I'm not sure it's worth delaying getting the Strategy Order of the Dragon ability at 8th AND would ensure my DPR is majorly garbage for a long time. Any tips on feats, gear, and class dips are appreciated. I definitely want to get to Cavalier 8, but I'm willing to be flexible about the last 4 levels.
I'm also all ears for strategic and tactical advice.
Greetings. My table has recently begun a side game of Pathfinder 1e where the list of allowed classes is restricted to Tier 4 and lower. I decided to play an Inspired Commander Cavalier (3pp archetype) focused on the use of Aid Another and other supportive abilities. While quite the different experience from my preferred playstyle (primary spellcaster), I've enjoyed it so far. However, I'm facing some serious questions in regards to future level-up and feat choices, and would like some advice.
The game started at 5th level, with two sessions played thus far. Thus, everything up to 5th level is locked-in until I level, when I can retrain feats. The GM has given me a few additional houserules to improve my capabilities:
* Perform [Oratory] as a class skill;
* No 1/minute limit on giving temp HP with Put Your Heart Into It;
* The Sense Motive portion of Antagonize adds +Int mod instead of +Cha mod to the subsequent Diplomacy or Intimidate check;
* Bodyguard works RAI instead of RAW (I can use it to defend an adjacent ally versus ranged attacks).
The Character:
Assuming 11 Cavalier/1 Fighter at retirement (home game, but same max lvl as PFS)
* Abilities: 16+2 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Con, 16 Int, 10 Wis, 8 Cha. Will increase Str at 8th and 12th.
* Feats: Combat Reflexes (1st), Duck and Cover (1st, Cavalier bonus), Bodyguard (3rd), Antagonize (5th), Power Attack (7th), Combat Expertise (9th), Swift Aid (9th, Fighter bonus), Teamwork Feat ??? (10th, Cavalier Bonus), Discordant Voice (11th), Cornugon Smash? (Training weapon or other item?). Retrain Duck and Cover to Harrying Partners (6th level).
This progression assumes only a one level dip into Fighter to pick up Combat Expertise lord of feat taxes so I can pick up Swift Aid. If there's any way to do this better than dipping into Fighter or a class > T4, please let me know.
* Traits: Fools For Friends, Bruising Intellect, Tactician, Overprotective [Drawback]
* Cavalier Order: Order of the Dragon
* Notable Skill Investments: Intimidate/Diplomacy/Sense Motive (for social pillar participation and Antagonize); Craft [Alchemy] (increase my versatility through the many alchemical weapons and items that exist, also provides some nice background fluff)
Tribin Highhill, LG Elf, Inspiring Commander Cavalier (Order of the Dragon) 5
Init +8 (+10 w/ Blood Boiling Pill); Senses - Perception +10, Low Light Vision
Defense
AC 22 (+3 Dex, +7 Armor, +2 Shield); Flat Footed 19; Touch 13
HP 44
Fort +6, Reflex +5, Will +3; +2 vs Enchantment, +1 vs Charms and Compulsions
Immunities: Sleep
Offense
Speed 20ft (30 out of armor)
Melee: Mstr. Elven Branched Spear +9 (1d8+6) or Mstr. Armor Spikes +10 (1d6+4)
Ranged: Mstr. Composite Longbow +9 (1d8+4 or Tangleshot Arrow) or Alchemical Weapons +8 (Variable)
Aid Another: Add +7 to an ally's next attack, AC versus next attack, skill check, or save.
Special Attacks: Challenge 2/day
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 5th; Cha Based)
1/day: Detect Magic, Read Magic, Detect Poison, Comprehend Languages
Statistics
18 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Con, 16 Int, 10 Wis, 8 Cha
Base Attack: +5; CMB +9; CMD 23
Feats: Duck and Cover, Combat Reflexes, Bodyguard, Antagonize
Traits: Fools For Friends, Bruising Intellect, Tactician, Overprotective [Drawback]
Skills: Diplomacy +7; Intimidate +11 (+16 w/ Gravelly Tonic); Kn. Local +7; Perception +10; Sense Motive +8; Survival +6; Perform [Oratory] +7; Craft [Alchemy] +13
Languages: Common, Elven, Draconic, Gnomish, Halfling
Special Abilities: Elven Immunities, Elven Weapon Familiarity, Inspiring Commands 15/day (Inspire Courage; Inspire Competence); Rapid Tactician 2/day; Put Your Heart Into It 6/day; Inspiring Voice
Major Gear: +1 Breastplate; +1 Buckler; Str Belt +2; Cape of Free Will +1; Wayfinder with slotted Cracked Dusty Rose Prism Ioun stone
The Rest of the Party
* A Shining Knight Paladin with a Spirited Charge build. Relatively strong build in combat, but inexperienced player. Also had a number of extra trained animals (beyond the mount) using Handle Animal, but they all died in the first two session.
* A Rogue/Slayer with a TWF/Feint based build, using a kusarigama.
* A ranged, physical Void Kineticist. Will use a heavy dose of 3pp materials at lvl 7 and up to support staying mono-void, adding various control-based infusions to their blast over time. For now, has issues with accuracy if I don't buff them.
Commentary
Currently, the biggest issue for me is mobility and positioning. I'm pretty slow, which hurts in finding good positioning. Retaining adjacency for effects dependent on it (e.g. Bodyguard) is highly fight dependent and inconvenient for certain PCs (the Rogue/Slayer), esp. since the Paladin player isn't very tactically minded. When I can set up my position well, it rocks. I do massively improve the party's stats just by existing, but the build seems clunky regardless. The GM has offered to let Bodyguard work on allies within my reach, instead of adjacency, but I think that could rapidly get out of hand if I ever get a consistent way to become large sized.
Low AC and low damage output are secondary issues currently, and will become much worse within a level or two. Hence why I'm prospectively thinking of taking Power Attack at 7th (better late than never?). AC will need to be adjusted for via future gear.
I know Antagonize is a rather disliked feat. Depending on GM adjudication, it can range from Ex mind control to completely useless (if it would provoke even 1 AoO, the ability fails). However, I trust my GM to handle it fairly; the current agreement is that the Intimidation mode essentially trades my action for forcing some form of aggression or action use from the target. It could be charging me, or it could be making a demoralize check, depending on the nature of the enemy.
I really don't want to dip Fighter, but it seems like the only way to grab Combat Expertise and Swift Aid before it's way too late in the character's career. I've considered making the dip sooner than later to get Swift Aid ASAP (at 7th), but I'm not sure it's worth delaying getting the Strategy Order of the Dragon ability at 8th AND would ensure my DPR is majorly garbage for a long time. Any tips on feats, gear, and class dips are appreciated. I definitely want to get to Cavalier 8, but I'm willing to be flexible about the last 4 levels.
I'm also all ears for strategic and tactical advice.