Magic to make a ship go faster?

[J-H]

What options are there (aside from Wish/Miracle) to make a ship (or flying ship) travel faster, presumably via the wind? Gust of Wind is a fixed-position spell, so it doesn't help for more than a minute.

The only one I've found so far is Control Weather, which is a 5 mile radius around the caster, and would thus move with the caster.

[Unoriginal]

What options are there (aside from Wish/Miracle) to make a ship (or flying ship) travel faster, presumably via the wind? Gust of Wind is a fixed-position spell, so it doesn't help for more than a minute.

Gust of Wind has the caster as fixed position. If the caster moves (because they're on a moving boat), the Gust moves with them.

That being said, Gust of Wind only last one minute anyway.



The only one I've found so far is Control Weather, which is a 5 mile radius around the caster, and would thus move with the caster.

Gust of Wind and Control Weather are the only ones for the wind, but Control Water could be used to control the flow of water around the ship.

[MrStabby]

I think the storm sorcerer also gets a wind control ability.

[Catullus64]

The Storm Sorcerer gets to control the direction, but not the intensity, of the wind. That means moment-to-moment he can't make a ship go much faster, but in terms of contribution to travel pace, always having the most advantageous wind is a pretty huge boost.

[Mastikator]

Create bonfire cantrip to create heat, heat turns water into steam, steam drives turbine which propels the ship. It's a cantrip too so it has unlimited uses and requires only a 1st level of.. like a third of all the classes?

Shape water can change the movement of 5 feet cube to move 5 feet per turn. So for every 5 feet of ship length you need 1 caster, but it's a cantrip so that should be less difficult.

Come to think of it cantrips are awesome and potentially game breaking if you're creative.

[ff7hero]

Create bonfire cantrip to create heat, heat turns water into steam, steam drives turbine which propels the ship. It's a cantrip too so it has unlimited uses and requires only a 1st level of.. like a third of all the classes?

Shape water can change the movement of 5 feet cube to move 5 feet per turn. So for every 5 feet of ship length you need 1 caster, but it's a cantrip so that should be less difficult.

Come to think of it cantrips are awesome and potentially game breaking if you're creative.

Came to suggest Control Water, but since I was beat to that, I'm going to just say I love the idea of a team of "rowers" on a boat with Shape Water. Chanting to keep time with their castings.

PS: Control Water is also great if you encounter hostile ships. ;)

[Catullus64]

Create bonfire cantrip to create heat, heat turns water into steam, steam drives turbine which propels the ship. It's a cantrip too so it has unlimited uses and requires only a 1st level of.. like a third of all the classes?

Shape water can change the movement of 5 feet cube to move 5 feet per turn. So for every 5 feet of ship length you need 1 caster, but it's a cantrip so that should be less difficult.

Come to think of it cantrips are awesome and potentially game breaking if you're creative.

I mean, generating heat is the least difficult part of building a steam turbine. Nobody in most D&D settings is sitting around thinking "we know how to make an engine that will efficiently harness steam power into kinetic action, if only we had a way to make steam!"

Also, having 4-12 spellcasters on hand for one boat strikes me as costly and rare enough that it's hardly "game breaking."

Both of these are feasible, but they require a setting in which magic and industry are both advanced and widespread enough to pull them off.

A Four Elements monk in one of my games used Shape the Flowing river to create a big sheet of ice underwater. When it shot to the surface, it created a wave that gave the ship an emergency, although he damaged the hull in the process.

[Anonymouswizard]

Come to think of it cantrips are awesome and potentially game breaking if you're creative.

Magic Initiate alone (two Cantrips, one 1st level spell) should lead to a world more like Avatar: the Last Airbender than Conan. Spellcasting might not be something everybody can do, but it's easy enough to access to change a good number of industries. Bricks weigh roughly 5 pounds, who's to say that builders aren't using Mage Hand to make their job easier?

Even if not used for transport ships likely use Shape Water to help make calmer seas, or possibly to erase their wake if trying to be stealthy? Although I do like the idea of it replacing rowers, especially as we can keep the drum. Gust also helps somewhat for a sailing ship, but probably not to the point of Shape Water.

But how about using a turbine with Gust? A relatively small but robust wind turbine, connected by simple mechanics to a propeller, impeller, or my personal favourite: giant paddle wheels. Unfortunately not as consistent as using Create Bonfire without multiple casters, but avoids the fire risk. Sadly it's probably better to use Shape Water with a water tank and water turbine.

Actually, we should probably calculate the force/energy we can get out of one of these Cantrips, just to see if we can do enough work to move a boat or small ship along. Or how many casters we need to move a galleon. Because I suspect we'll hit the fastest speeds by just dropping the sails and rowers and moving it by magic aided mechanical means.

[Tanarii]

Shape water can change the movement of 5 feet cube to move 5 feet per turn. So for every 5 feet of ship length you need 1 caster, but it's a cantrip so that should be less difficult.

Come to think of it cantrips are awesome and potentially game breaking if you're creative.
Depends on how common casters of caster level magic are in the DMs campaign. Cantrips aren't doing that much if they're about 1 in 2000 people, with 1/2 of those even being the right kind of caster to cast Shape Water (let along know it). In a port city you might get 100% of those who can, do. Why would someone who has 1 in 4000 ability come work for you?

Now if the world is 1 in 100 instead of 1 in 1000 have pc-equivilent abilities, now you've got 1 in 400 with the capability. So it'd take a port city of 8000 and every available Shape Water user coming to work from you to power a Sailing ship (100 ft long).

I just don't see anything like reasonable demographics making it game breaking.

[stoutstien]

Assuming that physics works somewhat like reality the two options to make more force or make the vessel lighter.

[Mith]

Magic Initiate alone (two Cantrips, one 1st level spell) should lead to a world more like Avatar: the Last Airbender than Conan. Spellcasting might not be something everybody can do, but it's easy enough to access to change a good number of industries. Bricks weigh roughly 5 pounds, who's to say that builders aren't using Mage Hand to make their job easier?

Even if not used for transport ships likely use Shape Water to help make calmer seas, or possibly to erase their wake if trying to be stealthy? Although I do like the idea of it replacing rowers, especially as we can keep the drum. Gust also helps somewhat for a sailing ship, but probably not to the point of Shape Water.

But how about using a turbine with Gust? A relatively small but robust wind turbine, connected by simple mechanics to a propeller, impeller, or my personal favourite: giant paddle wheels. Unfortunately not as consistent as using Create Bonfire without multiple casters, but avoids the fire risk. Sadly it's probably better to use Shape Water with a water tank and water turbine.

Actually, we should probably calculate the force/energy we can get out of one of these Cantrips, just to see if we can do enough work to move a boat or small ship along. Or how many casters we need to move a galleon. Because I suspect we'll hit the fastest speeds by just dropping the sails and rowers and moving it by magic aided mechanical means.

As far as force/energy calculations, there is probably a way to just use a die size + number of dice as a scaling parameter to get everything in ballpark estimates. The dice size is in part energy but also efficiency of the spell (less chance to roll low energy). As far as status effect, I would think estimating force of moving a creature (Gust of wind) by assuming volumes of water (so 5 cubic feet ~factor of 150 (141.5 to be technical, but 150 is better maths with 6% too high if I have done my estimating right). Is there anything else to be considered?

[Sigreid]

Animate dead for tireless skeletons on the oars.

Edit: This is a weird one and definitely takes DM consent and a lot of work, but if you had enough decanters of endless water you could set them up as water jet engines.

[XmonkTad]

Animate dead for tireless skeletons on the oars.

Edit: This is a weird one and definitely takes DM consent and a lot of work, but if you had enough decanters of endless water you could set them up as water jet engines.
This is the solution I would have recommended. It's hard to manipulate the elements yourself in sufficient quantity, quality or for sufficient time to really get anywhere on your own. Planar Ally and Planar binding can get you an elemental who can move an entire ship with ease.

But for your spell slot buck, animate dead is the most bang. Tiny servant is ok if you can't be evil, but it's not nearly as much help.

[Mastikator]

Depends on how common casters of caster level magic are in the DMs campaign. Cantrips aren't doing that much if they're about 1 in 2000 people, with 1/2 of those even being the right kind of caster to cast Shape Water (let along know it). In a port city you might get 100% of those who can, do. Why would someone who has 1 in 4000 ability come work for you?

Now if the world is 1 in 100 instead of 1 in 1000 have pc-equivilent abilities, now you've got 1 in 400 with the capability. So it'd take a port city of 8000 and every available Shape Water user coming to work from you to power a Sailing ship (100 ft long).

I just don't see anything like reasonable demographics making it game breaking.

The comment was more on how versatile many cantrips are and how easy it is for PCs to acquire a wide array of them, which they can use to solve a great many obstacles and problems.

[Tanarii]

The comment was more on how versatile many cantrips are and how easy it is for PCs to acquire a wide array of them, which they can use to solve a great many obstacles and problems.Gotcha. Yes. Players do have a tendency to try and stretch spells, especially utility cantrips, to do more than they can do. But even within the limits they're very useful to those that have them.

[Anonymouswizard]

As far as force/energy calculations, there is probably a way to just use a die size + number of dice as a scaling parameter to get everything in ballpark estimates. The dice size is in part energy but also efficiency of the spell (less chance to roll low energy). As far as status effect, I would think estimating force of moving a creature (Gust of wind) by assuming volumes of water (so 5 cubic feet ~factor of 150 (141.5 to be technical, but 150 is better maths with 6% too high if I have done my estimating right). Is there anything else to be considered?

Yeah, I'm going to be honest when I say I haven't done these calculations in a long time, so I have nothing to add. Honestly in a setting where it's common there'd probably be specialised cantrips and spells rather than jury rigging existing ones, although I'd possibly allow Shape Water to move two people in a small boat. I think it's cool, even if the maths might not work out.

But as a RAW exercise it'll be fun to see how many people we need to get a fishing boat and galleon at ~1ft/s. I'm just too tired to maths right now.


The comment was more on how versatile many cantrips are and how easy it is for PCs to acquire a wide array of them, which they can use to solve a great many obstacles and problems.

Yeah, I was the one going a bit further than that. But I'll probably move anything else to it's own thread if I come up with anything else, because moving things by minor magic is a broad enough idea.

[Unoriginal]

You can also conjure an Air Elemental and have it provide wind to the sails, or conjur a Water Elemental and have it help the ship move.

[Mith]

Yeah, I'm going to be honest when I say I haven't done these calculations in a long time, so I have nothing to add. Honestly in a setting where it's common there'd probably be specialised cantrips and spells rather than jury rigging existing ones, although I'd possibly allow Shape Water to move two people in a small boat. I think it's cool, even if the maths might not work out.

But as a RAW exercise it'll be fun to see how many people we need to get a fishing boat and galleon at ~1ft/s. I'm just too tired to maths right now.



Yeah, I was the one going a bit further than that. But I'll probably move anything else to it's own thread if I come up with anything else, because moving things by minor magic is a broad enough idea.

Oh I agree that the maths is probably way too much to do for a post game release. For something like this, one would be best to build a scaling factor for a certain level of a spell and say that these are all roughly the same level". Outside of spells, this could allow for a means to give resources for a "intuition check" on "is this enough of a cost to do a thing in terms of a fair trade?" Basically a compromise between the 3.5 modifier tables and the very loose guidelines current to 5e.

I would like such a system just for the "build a spell" potential alone as it would prevent power creep. Of course, such a system also means one loses out on various merchandise, but I much prefer the idea of a compact and versatile rule-set and the main value being in selling adventure paths.

[Petrocorus]

Can you not just enslave an air or water elemental like normal people do?

[Wizard_Lizard]

Eberron has an item called the wheel of wind and water which increases the ship's speed by 5 miles per hour.

[J-H]

Great answers, thanks everyone.

Now I'm prepared for whatever my party chooses to do.

[Unoriginal]

Wonder if you can conjure a bunch of water animals and have them pull the boat.

Not sure if it can go faster than with wind, then.

[JoeJ]

Spell research to create a variant form of Longstrider that affects vehicles instead of creatures.

[JackPhoenix]

There are Clockwork Oars and Ever-Sull Sails in GoS, but the former doesn't allow you to go faster, just ignore the need for rowers, while the later sets the ship's speed to 60'/turn, no matter the wind's direction and strength, though annyoingly, it doesn't say how it translates into a travel speed.

[Blood of Gaea]

How about using Guards And Wards? One of the effects under "Other Spell Effect" is "place a constant gust of wind in one corrider or room." The spell lasts 24 hours and becomes permanent if cast every day for a year.

Hard to say how strong a Gust of Wind is, but a 10 foot wide blast that can push creatures 15 feet each turns would need be generating a good bit of thrust, easily enough to make use of in a sail.

The downside is of course the fact that it's a 6th level spell. But I don't think it's incredibly unreazonable that the occasionaly Bard or Wizard would have traded a permant version in exchange for free passage for a year in order to travel the seas. This also comes with same amazing defensive abilities to use against enemies, and the Fog could give some great ghost ship aesthetics.

Combine that optionally the skeletons mentioned earlier, and you'd end up with a very efficient ship. Plus, having a bunch of skeletons rowing a boat that is covered in fog (to anyone who doesn't say the password) is just great.

[JoeJ]

How about using Guards And Wards? One of the effects under "Other Spell Effect" is "place a constant gust of wind in one corrider or room." The spell lasts 24 hours and becomes permanent if cast every day for a year.

Hard to say how strong a Gust of Wind is, but a 10 foot wide blast that can push creatures 15 feet each turns would need be generating a good bit of thrust, easily enough to make use of in a sail.

The downside is of course the fact that it's a 6th level spell. But I don't think it's incredibly unreazonable that the occasionaly Bard or Wizard would have traded a permant version in exchange for free passage for a year in order to travel the seas. This also comes with same amazing defensive abilities to use against enemies, and the Fog could give some great ghost ship aesthetics.

Combine that optionally the skeletons mentioned earlier, and you'd end up with a very efficient ship. Plus, having a bunch of skeletons rowing a boat that is covered in fog (to anyone who doesn't say the password) is just great.

It says "one corridor or room" though, so the wind is only useful if you're sailing indoors. I could see allowing a character to research a variant that applies to ships, though.

[Sigreid]

There are Clockwork Oars and Ever-Sull Sails in GoS, but the former doesn't allow you to go faster, just ignore the need for rowers, while the later sets the ship's speed to 60'/turn, no matter the wind's direction and strength, though annyoingly, it doesn't say how it translates into a travel speed.

I believe the DM's guide says straight up how to convert base speed into miles per hour/day.

[Bardon]

It says "one corridor or room" though, so the wind is only useful if you're sailing indoors. I could see allowing a character to research a variant that applies to ships, though.

Or you get a ship made to take advantage of this, with a corridor that opens towards the sail ... or that opens at the stern of the ship for jet propulsion! (Okay, not really feasible but just a mental image that formed) :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[Sigreid]

Planar Binding a devilish crew.

[Twelvetrees]

Quaal's Feather Token - Fan is exactly the sort of magic item that would accomplish this, wind and everything. Ship speed is increased by 5 miles per hour for 8 hours because of a giant flapping fan.

[Unoriginal]

Planar Binding a devilish crew.

Could Planar Bind a Merrenoloth.

[Mith]

Or you get a ship made to take advantage of this, with a corridor that opens towards the sail ... or that opens at the stern of the ship for jet propulsion! (Okay, not really feasible but just a mental image that formed) :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

The first doesn't technically work as you cannot attach a source directly to the sailing vessel and make it work. Jet prupulsion for a smaller vessel may work though.

[Zirconia]

The first doesn't technically work as you cannot attach a source directly to the sailing vessel and make it work. Jet prupulsion for a smaller vessel may work though.

It depends how the magic works; if the "corridor" generating the wind is like a fan, then you are right, any force on the sails from the wind is countered by the backwards force from the wind corridor fan pushing it. If that is the case, then having it blow out the back would push the ship, like a weak rocket.

On the other hand, if the "corridor" generating the wind doesn't generate thrust, because "magic", then you could aim it at the sails and get faster sailing.

With either rule it works. :)