are you casting ocular spell twice?

[newguydude1]

You can cast a spell with a casting time of 1 full round or less as an ocular spell. An ocular spell does not take effect immediately, but is instead held in one of your eyes for up to 8 hours. You can store only two ocular spells in this fashion, even if you have more than two eyes. Only ray spells and spells with a target other than personal can be cast as ocular spells. When you choose, you can then cast both of the ocular spells as a full-round action; the spells become brilliant blasts that shoot out from your eyes. You can choose different targets for the two ocular spells. When you release an ocular spell, its effect changes to a ray with a range of up to 60 feet. If the spell previously would have affected multiple creatures, it now affects only the creature struck by the ray. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike your target with an ocular spell, and the target is still permitted any saving throw allowed by the spell.

Example: Ferno, an 11th-level wizard with the Ocular Spell feat, could prepare two scorching ray spells as ocular spells, casting them at the beginning of the day. In combat, he can take a full-round action to fire off both scorching ray spells. He can fire each spell at a different target, and he gets all three rays from each spell. An ocular spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level.

so are you casting ocular spell twice?
first time when you put it in your eyes
second time when you shoot it from your eyes.

or are you casting it only once?
first time when you put it in your eyes.
second time is not casting. your just firing off.

its important because illumian naenhoon only works on spells you are casting, and it takes a swift action so you can only do it once per cast. so i want to naenhoon ocular spell, and then naenhoon persistent spell. but if im not casting the spell twice, this obviously doesnt work, but if i am casting the spell twice, then this obviously does work.

[Falcii]

You only cast an ocular spell the one time, then it is held and eventually released. Otherwise it would cost more spell slots. Whether that happens when you prep it or when you release it is open to interpretation imo, but it is definitely only one total casting.

So nah I don't think that works sadly.

[bean illus]

You don't cast Ocular Spell. You cast a spell (once), and put it in one of your eyes. Ocular Spell is a feat that holds that spell within your eye (or up to 2 spells in 2 eyes).

[newguydude1]

You don't cast Ocular Spell. You cast a spell (once), and put it in one of your eyes. Ocular Spell is a feat that holds that spell within your eye (or up to 2 spells in 2 eyes).

but in the 1st paragraph it says you cast the stored spell with a full round action.

[gogogome]

Seeing how you "cast" a spell stored in a spell storing item, makes sense that you're "casting" a spell stored in your eyes. Even a shield guardian is said to be "casting" a spell when it releases a spell stored inside it.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Seeing how you "cast" a spell stored in a spell storing item, makes sense that you're "casting" a spell stored in your eyes. Even a shield guardian is said to be "casting" a spell when it releases a spell stored inside it.
Agreed. In the case of spell-storing weapons, the spell is "stored" in the weapon and "cast" when the weapon hits a target.

Ocular Spell is wonky in that it uses "cast" for both storing and casting in the second paragraph, but in the first paragraph, it uses "hold" and "cast" respectively, which is perfectly clear. I'd just go with the first paragraph. My view is that rules text > example text in general (this is an interpretative guideline, not RAW), and it makes more sense in this case, too.

[gogogome]

Agreed. In the case of spell-storing weapons, the spell is "stored" in the weapon and "cast" when the weapon hits a target.

Ocular Spell is wonky in that it uses "cast" for both storing and casting in the second paragraph, but in the first paragraph, it uses "hold" and "cast" respectively, which is perfectly clear. I'd just go with the first paragraph. My view is that rules text > example text in general (this is an interpretative guideline, not RAW), and it makes more sense in this case, too.

I think you misread something. The first paragraph uses "cast" for both storing and casting. The second paragraph uses "cast" and "fire-off".

So if we go by your view, you are casting the spell twice, just like how anyone casts spells twice with spell storing items.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I think you misread something. The first paragraph uses "cast" for both storing and casting. The second paragraph uses "cast" and "fire-off".
Uh... right, yes. I really should've spent a little more time looking at the actual text. I'd have noticed that spell-storing also uses "cast" for both further into the description.


You can cast a spell with a casting time of 1 full round or less as an ocular spell. An ocular spell does not take effect immediately, but is instead held in one of your eyes for up to 8 hours. You can store only two ocular spells in this fashion, even if you have more than two eyes. Only ray spells and spells with a target other than personal can be cast as ocular spells. When you choose, you can then cast both of the ocular spells as a full-round action; the spells become brilliant blasts that shoot out from your eyes. You can choose different targets for the two ocular spells. When you release an ocular spell, its effect changes to a ray with a range of up to 60 feet. If the spell previously would have affected multiple creatures, it now affects only the creature struck by the ray. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike your target with an ocular spell, and the target is still permitted any saving throw allowed by the spell.

Example: Ferno, an 11th-level wizard with the Ocular Spell feat, could prepare two scorching ray spells as ocular spells, casting them at the beginning of the day. In combat, he can take a full-round action to fire off both scorching ray spells. He can fire each spell at a different target, and he gets all three rays from each spell. An ocular spell uses up a spell slot two levels higher than the spell's actual level.

Initial storing of the spell in ones eyes: cast, hold, store.
Releasing the spell from ones eyes: cast, release, fire.

So yeah, you do arguably cast it twice, and you can use Naenhoon to apply Ocular and Persist. Interesting use of spell-storing, too. Although in the case of a spell-storing item, it is the weapon that casts the spell, not the person who cast the spell into the weapon. Which is itself a dysfunction, since the weapon doesn't have a caster level. Fun.

Shalanta's delicate disk also says you "cast" a spell into the disk, but when the disk is shattered, the spell "takes effect as if cast"--it isn't actually cast.
Glyph of warding uses "store" and never gives a verb for the release.
Glyph seals require you to cast the spell while holding the item, which can then be "activated" to become a spell glyph, which in turn releases the spell as per glyph of warding.

[newguydude1]

ok so its agreed by raw i can apply ocular spell via naenhoon on first cast and then persistent spell on second cast?