Wizard's staff is his/her spellbook?

[eyebreaker7]

I think I heard about this a long time ago, but how bad would it be to make a staff a spellbook? The staff would be magical of course. You would just touch the paper and it would "get absorbed" by the staff adding it to the "spellbook". Any wizard holding the staff knows what it is and what spells are in it. But how would it be limited? How many spells can a spellbook hold?

[sleepyphoenixx]

There's rules for that in Complete Arcane. Iirc a (mundane) staff can hold up to 9 pages of spells.
You could probably add the effects of a Blessed Book (or, if you want to be fancy, a Necklace of the Phantom Library from the Explorer's Handbook) to store more spells.
Or just keep a bunch of mundane staves in an Efficient Quiver.

If you want the absorbing feature (circumventing scribing times) you'd probably have to pay for the equivalent of a Quill of Rapid Scrivening (DMG2, 27000gp).

There's of course the issue that your staff is in hand and freely targetable while your spellbook would usually be in your Haversack, out of LoS/LoE of your enemies.
Losing your spellbook is no joke after all.

[Melcar]

How many spells can a spellbook hold?

A spellbook can hold as many spells as there are pages in it...

[Warder]

I'm not entirely sure I understand the question - how bad it'd be? It seems like it'd bypass a bunch of the normal limitations of the book format, like requiring light to read by when preparing spells, the 24 hours to write a new spell to the book, the 100 gp/level gold cost for the ink, and deciphering magical writings when another wizard uses it. It doesn't seem "bad", per se, but it feels like it's an effort to turn a wizard into a sorcerer. Can't say I'm a fan.

As for how many spells the staff should hold, well, a normal spellbook has 100 pages and each spell uses 1 page per spell level, that seems about right.

[Lilapop]

A spellbook can hold as many spells as there are pages in it...

Not quite. It can hold as many spell levels as it has pages, with 0ths counting as one level instead of 0.5 as with magic items.


A spell takes up one page of the spellbook per spell level. Even a 0-level spell (cantrip) takes one page. A spellbook has one hundred pages.



Also check out https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?544422-Alternate-forms-of-spellbooks-gems-crystals-etc for more non-book spellbooks.

[Mordaedil]

Complete Arcane also has rules for customized spellbooks in vein of adding more pages.

[AnimeTheCat]

I'm not entirely sure I understand the question - how bad it'd be? It seems like it'd bypass a bunch of the normal limitations of the book format, like requiring light to read by when preparing spells, the 24 hours to write a new spell to the book, the 100 gp/level gold cost for the ink, and deciphering magical writings when another wizard uses it. It doesn't seem "bad", per se, but it feels like it's an effort to turn a wizard into a sorcerer. Can't say I'm a fan.

As for how many spells the staff should hold, well, a normal spellbook has 100 pages and each spell uses 1 page per spell level, that seems about right.

Instead of writing spells in to the spellbook, I suspect the wizard in question would have to have a specifically prepared space that contains some level of light by which to read the scroll of the spell they're embedding in to their staff, and I suspect this process would take the day it normally takes to study the spell before attempting the spellcraft check to understand the spell and then attune it to their staff, and I suspect this process likely requires some kind of incense or oil (maybe even both) that must be applied and used during the attunement process that costs approximately 100 gp/spell level to be attuned, and since the staff is a magical item, any spellcaster could probably take the time with an appropriate spellcraft or maybe even decipher script to meditate with the item and unravel it's secrets. Very different in flavor from the classic spellbook, but mechanically the exact same. I highly doubt this is an attempt by anyone, player or DM, to turn a wizard in to a sorcerer in any capacity.

[liquidformat]

There's rules for that in Complete Arcane. Iirc a (mundane) staff can hold up to 9 pages of spells.
You could probably add the effects of a Blessed Book (or, if you want to be fancy, a Necklace of the Phantom Library from the Explorer's Handbook) to store more spells.
Or just keep a bunch of mundane staves in an Efficient Quiver.

If you want the absorbing feature (circumventing scribing times) you'd probably have to pay for the equivalent of a Quill of Rapid Scrivening (DMG2, 27000gp).

There's of course the issue that your staff is in hand and freely targetable while your spellbook would usually be in your Haversack, out of LoS/LoE of your enemies.
Losing your spellbook is no joke after all.

So depending on what books you are allowing there are between 19-64 0 level spells and 3+int 1st level spells. So ignoring Collegiate Wizard and lets say starting Int of 16 you have between 25 and 70 spells so you would need 3 to 8 staves as a level 1 wizard. That is both ridiculous and awesome, just think of the visual of a wizard with a bunch of staves fanned out on his back. Granted the visual would be ruined by the fact that the wizard can't walk but hey got to make sacrifices to look cool!

[MaxiDuRaritry]

There's of course the issue that your staff is in hand and freely targetable while your spellbook would usually be in your Haversack, out of LoS/LoE of your enemies.

Losing your spellbook is no joke after all.I always, always make extant spellbooks/prayerbooks out of riverine or aurorum, and I always find a way to tether it to me. That's assuming I have such a book at all and don't implant spells directly into my mind or enhance my body or soul as a spellbook using grafts and the magic item combination rules in the MIC.

[Maat Mons]

Have a look at Aureon's Spellshard (Eberron Campaign Setting, page 265), Boccob's Blessed Book (Dungeon Master's Guide, page 249), and Kiira (Magic of Faurun, page 161) for examples of magic items that are also spellbooks. They might give you ideas.

[AnimeTheCat]

So depending on what books you are allowing there are between 19-64 0 level spells and 3+int 1st level spells. So ignoring Collegiate Wizard and lets say starting Int of 16 you have between 25 and 70 spells so you would need 3 to 8 staves as a level 1 wizard. That is both ridiculous and awesome, just think of the visual of a wizard with a bunch of staves fanned out on his back. Granted the visual would be ruined by the fact that the wizard can't walk but hey got to make sacrifices to look cool!

the immediate image to what you described that sprung to my mind was Mystogan from Fairy Tail, though he definitely still walks normally. He uses staves to cast his various different magic and has like 8 of them on his back.

[GrayDeath]

Dont do this.

Instead build as holographic Projector (Level 2 Illusion effect is sufficient to display anything with even the most complex visual only illusions) in it that can "save" all the Spells (in form of holographic matrices^^) you need.

To prepare, you simply "swipe" the Display to the next spell.

Additional Advantage: You can also save Scrolls in the staff and cast from it for just a little bit more money.

Disadvantage: Youa re amking your staff seem very powerful, AND putting all your eggs in one basket is .... not smart.

[Psyren]

@ the folks saying "don't" - it's not either-or. Having some clutch spells inside your staff doesn't mean you can't also have normal (or even more alternate) spellbooks. Scribing backup copies of spells isn't exactly expensive.


That is both ridiculous and awesome, just think of the visual of a wizard with a bunch of staves fanned out on his back. Granted the visual would be ruined by the fact that the wizard can't walk but hey got to make sacrifices to look cool!

As AnimeTheCat mentioned, he can walk just fine:
https://a.wattpad.com/cover/25717317-352-k754857.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/d9VKC1j.png

And can I just say finding spoiler-free images of that guy is really a pain?


the immediate image to what you described that sprung to my mind was Mystogan from Fairy Tail, though he definitely still walks normally. He uses staves to cast his various different magic and has like 8 of them on his back.

Yeah, in D&D terms
he'd actually be an artificer rather than a wizard, hence walking around with all those toys.

[AnimeTheCat]

Yeah, in D&D terms
he'd actually be an artificer rather than a wizard, hence walking around with all those toys.

For sure, I agree. Just the imagery that flooded my anime filled brain was instantly that. Honestly, before his real identity is revealed, he could just be anybody who has a decent charisma and a high UMD check. It's not until later that he's doing more specialized things that it comes out how innately magical he is.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I always, always make extant spellbooks/prayerbooks out of riverine or aurorum, and I always find a way to tether it to me. That's assuming I have such a book at all and don't implant spells directly into my mind or enhance my body or soul as a spellbook using grafts and the magic item combination rules in the MIC.
A waste of money imo. If your DM really wants your spellbook nothing short of Eidetic Spellcaster will stop him, and i like Familiars and scrolls too much for that one.
The most i'll do is get a few emergency spells tattoed on my body and Spell Mastery if i get Uncanny Forethought of course.

Otherwise the moment i've copied my free spells into a Necklace of the Phantom Library or Blessed Book i sell the mundane spellbooks containing them for extra spending money.
I'd rather not have tens of thousands of GP sitting in my inventory doing nothing "just in case".


the immediate image to what you described that sprung to my mind was Mystogan from Fairy Tail, though he definitely still walks normally. He uses staves to cast his various different magic and has like 8 of them on his back.
You're not the only one. :smalltongue:


Dont do this.

Instead build as holographic Projector (Level 2 Illusion effect is sufficient to display anything with even the most complex visual only illusions) in it that can "save" all the Spells (in form of holographic matrices^^) you need.

To prepare, you simply "swipe" the Display to the next spell.
The Necklace of the Phantom Library is pretty much this.
It's a little more than twice as expensive as a Blessed Book (30gp/page instead of 12,5gp/page) but lets you scribe a new spell in 8 hours instead of 24.
Or copy one you already know in 4.

[GrayDeath]

Even better, so you wont have to build it from scratch. Just switch from necklace to Staff (or if you really want to go all out, make EVERYTHING you carry an extra holographic Spellbook^^).

[Ramza00]

in ebberon there is the Spellshard
and the upgraded version(a variant similar to the boccop blessed book):
https://eberron-hok.obsidianportal.com/items/aureon-s-spellshard
You can also use variant spellbooks: there was a manual who listed some variant spellbooks such as using bones or small objects or your own skin or buildings as spellbooks.

Have a look at Aureon's Spellshard (Eberron Campaign Setting, page 265), Boccob's Blessed Book (Dungeon Master's Guide, page 249), and Kiira (Magic of Faurun, page 161) for examples of magic items that are also spellbooks. They might give you ideas.

(repeats what others have said for effect)

Just do an Aureon Spellshard, it is literally the same as the Boccob's Blessed Book except it costs half the amount of gp, has 500 pages instead of 1000, and is a crystal the size of your fist and weighs 1/2 a lb. You can use the spellshard to prepare spells much like it is a spellbook.

Put the spellshard on top of a staff and you get what you want. The only thing you do not get which you desire is learning a spell with a touch instead of taking the time to write it into the spellshard of several hours.

[mabriss lethe]

As ridiculous as carrying multiple staves as a spellbook would be (Mystogan excepted) You could use an Efficient Quiver to store them in, as it can hold several staff length items to pull out on command. You could also effectively turn it into a golfbag. You can definitely find something of each size category that you could use as tokens to build your spellbook out of.

Now that I think about it, that would be a pretty big spellbook analog. It could hold 60 objects the size and shape of an arrow, 18 javelin shaped objects, and six staff sized objects. Arrows are much larger than hand crossbow bolts, so we can safely estimate that an arrow sized shaft would be in the 4 page category similar to the listed "rod" That gives us 240 pages of spells in that compartment. The next compartment could hold 108 spell levels assuming that javelins would be equivalent to 6 pages having similar surface area to a club, and the large compartment could hold 54 since a staff can hold 9. That gives us a relatively concealed spellbook with 402 spell levels, and as an added bonus, none of the spells it contains are permanently scribed into it, You can easily sub out any spell it contains on a page by page basis

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Add sizing and morphing to the spellbook staves. Turn them into poison rings (Dragon Compendium) and wear them on your fingers. Enhance them as ringswords (A&EG) and daisy-chain them so you can wear all of them at the same time. And if they're enhanced as magical rings as well, you gain the benefits of all of them.

Also, don't forget warning, eager, smoking, and other weapon enhancements that give you their effects even in rounds when they're not being used to attack.

[rel]

A potential alternative is playing an easy bake wizard and claiming that you don't have a spellbook because the spells are in your walking stick.

[weckar]

Obligatory mention of the Geometer to make alternate spellbooks far more efficient.

[almondsAndRain]

Obligatory mention of the Geometer to make alternate spellbooks far more efficient. Stack that with Arcane Shorthand (Dragon Magazine #358) to have twice as many spells in a spellbook as the book has pages.

[weckar]

Wow, that's an overspecialized feat if I ever saw one. Carrying a second spellbook too much?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Wow, that's an overspecialized feat if I ever saw one. Carrying a second spellbook too much?
Most wizards barely manage to fill one Blessed Book in your average game so it's not even that. :smalltongue:
Though i suppose if you do take it you're planning to scribe more to take advantage of it, or at least i'd hope so.

I think it's more notable because it halves scribing time, something that's notoriously rare. The only other options i'm aware of are the Quill of Rapid Scrivening and the Necklace of the Phantom Library.
Well and MoF Amanuensis, but that's superceded by the nerfed SpC version.
That part at least could maybe be useful in an actual game if you're pressed for time (but not too pressed) or plan to scribe a lot of extra spells.

Of course getting a new spell scribed also includes an extra day for understanding the spell. Which the feat doesn't affect.
So you're merely saving 12 hours of 48 unless you're scribing a spell you've already memorized, meaning you'd still be better off just playing an easy bake wizard or sorcerer.

Yeah, it's overspecialized.

[Telonius]

As far as I'm concerned, turning a staff into a spellbook is just a matter of flavor. As long as they're spending the time and GP to carve new spells into it, and studying it for an hour to recover their spells, there's not really a mechanical difference. As long as it doesn't break immersion, and it's not doing anything wacky to the mechanics, why not let the players get creative?

[sleepyphoenixx]

As far as I'm concerned, turning a staff into a spellbook is just a matter of flavor. As long as they're spending the time and GP to carve new spells into it, and studying it for an hour to recover their spells, there's not really a mechanical difference. As long as it doesn't break immersion, and it's not doing anything wacky to the mechanics, why not let the players get creative?

Sure, that's the easy part. Same cost as a Blessed Book, add cost for masterwork quarterstaff, done.

The issue comes when you want the absorbing feature or in other words ignore scribing time.
Unless your campaign is very slow paced that's a pretty significant benefit considering it normally takes 2 days to scribe a single spell.

[almondsAndRain]

Wow, that's an overspecialized feat if I ever saw one. Carrying a second spellbook too much?

Most wizards barely manage to fill one Blessed Book in your average game so it's not even that. :smalltongue:
Though i suppose if you do take it you're planning to scribe more to take advantage of it, or at least i'd hope so.

I think it's more notable because it halves scribing time, something that's notoriously rare. The only other options i'm aware of are the Quill of Rapid Scrivening and the Necklace of the Phantom Library.
Well and MoF Amanuensis, but that's superceded by the nerfed SpC version.
That part at least could maybe be useful in an actual game if you're pressed for time (but not too pressed) or plan to scribe a lot of extra spells.

Of course getting a new spell scribed also includes an extra day for understanding the spell. Which the feat doesn't affect.
So you're merely saving 12 hours of 48 unless you're scribing a spell you've already memorized, meaning you'd still be better off just playing an easy bake wizard or sorcerer.

Yeah, it's overspecialized.Yeah, it's only real use is as a fluff feat. I planned on slapping it onto a wizard/geometer whose concept was "The Dorkiest Dork Who Ever Did Dork," because the thought of a wizard aggressively scribing as many inscrutable magic math equations into the margins of her spellbook as she could fit amused me. Probably would have taken flaws for Collegiate Wizard and Precocious Apprentice too, to double down on the dork.

[Vaern]

Yeah, it's only real use is as a fluff feat. I planned on slapping it onto a wizard/geometer whose concept was "The Dorkiest Dork Who Ever Did Dork," because the thought of a wizard aggressively scribing as many inscrutable magic math equations into the margins of her spellbook as she could fit amused me. Probably would have taken flaws for Collegiate Wizard and Precocious Apprentice too, to double down on the dork.

You could also just be super over-prepared for the occasion where you lose your spellbook. Since you've made scribing extraordinarily cheap and efficient, you could reasonably make several copies of your spellbook and have one stashed in a safety deposit box in the banks of every major city in your campaign setting. You'll only ever be a few days' journey from your nearest replacement, should your spellbook ever be lost or destroyed.