Question on Shadow Evocation and Metamagic

[Jay R]

My gnome illusionist has now reached ninth level, so he has Shadow Evocation. That means he can cast "a quasi-real, illusory version of a sorcerer or wizard evocation spell of 4th level or lower." So for purposes of that spell, is an Enlarged Fireball a "sorcerer or wizard evocation spell of 4th level or lower"?

He doesn't have the Enlarge Spell metamagic feat, but he doesn't have the fireball spell either, and I know he can cast that.

Yes, I know the final ruling is up to my DM, and I intend to ask him in a few days. But first, I'd like to gather information -- do other DMs allow it? Is there some book somewhere that addresses this? Who's actually seen it used? And what really obvious advantage can I get out of it?

I would only use metamagic that affects the effects of the spell, like enlarge, extend, empower, maximize, etc. Metamagic that affects the casting of the spell, such as Still, Silent, Quicken, and the like, would be applied to the underlying shadow evocation spell.

I would prefer to have this issue clearly defined before next level, when he gets Shadow Illusion, and the possibilities increase. [Yes, of course he's a Shadowcraft Mage.]

[Kayblis]

"Enlarged Fireball" is not a base spell. You can't learn "Enlarged Fireball" as a wizard/sorcerer, it's merely Fireball with a metamagic feat applied to it. You can't apply metamagic to spells simulated with Shadow X spells, only to the original Shadow X spell. So while you could Empower your Shadow Evocation, it still reproduces a 4th level or lower sorc/wiz spell.

[Psyren]

Spells like Limited Wish let you do this, because they can "produce effects in line with" a spell of X level. A 150% damage fireball is in line with a 5th-level spell.

Shadow Evocation however lacks such a clause - you have to duplicate an actual spell that exists, so metamagicked versions of spells don't qualify.

You have nothing to lose by asking your GM though. And of course, which sufficient cheese you can start throwing out Shadow Miracles and bypass the issue entirely, though your GM will be even less likely to go for that.

[Jay R]

OK, thank you both. I don't need to consult my DM; you've convinced me that Gwystyl shouldn't be able to do it.

[And there was never a possibility that I would try the Dweomerkeeper stunt to get shadow miracles; I can't accept that interpretation.]