Optimizing for suboptimal stats

[DSCrankshaw]

Recently I rolled stats of 9, 9, 10, 11, 12, and 13.

Well then.

So I'm wondering what I can build with this. Right now the best I've got is a Hill Dwarf Forge Cleric focusing on support spells. Bless and Guidance don't care about my stats, at least, and the +1 magical item once a day is just plain great at first level. At later levels, heat metal is probably better when the enemy succeeds on their save, and animate objects' attack bonuses don't depend on my stats.

Any other ideas? And before you get too esoteric, races are limited to human, elf, dwarf, and halfling.

[Zhorn]

Obligatory mention of the "Build Murray"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSK0AcFqkyU

[CTurbo]

Yep unless you want to go Moon Druid with a 14 Wis, I'd go Hill Dwarf Forge Cleric with 14 Con and Wis. Plate + shield + Blessing of the Forge gives you a good AC of 21

[MaxWilson]

Recently I rolled stats of 9, 9, 10, 11, 12, and 13.

Well then.

So I'm wondering what I can build with this. Right now the best I've got is a Hill Dwarf Forge Cleric focusing on support spells. Bless and Guidance don't care about my stats, at least, and the +1 magical item once a day is just plain great at first level. At later levels, heat metal is probably better when the enemy succeeds on their save, and animate objects' attack bonuses don't depend on my stats.

Any other ideas? And before you get too esoteric, races are limited to human, elf, dwarf, and halfling.

The first thing I want to say is that those stats are still above average. This guy is not a loser. He might not be a superhuman Captain America or Tony Stark, but he's a fit and healthy police officer (Str 13 Con 12) or Army soldier, or an intelligent and well-liked high school science teacher (Int 13 Cha 12), or a highly-competent doctor, etc., even before you apply your racial modifiers. Don't underestimate him.

With that in mind, the main constraints you've got is that you'll have trouble multiclassing, and you can't move quickly in heavy armor unless either:

(1) You take the Mobile feat, or
(2) You play a HAM human with Str 15 (13 in Str, +1 from human, +1 from Heavy Armor Master).

You also won't excel at accuracy-intensive weapons options like GWM and Sharpshooter because they are very sensitive to initial stats, although Sharpshooter less so because of Archery style.

There's still a lot of fun stuff you can do though that isn't terribly stat-dependent. Here are a few:

Str 9 Dex 10 Con 11 Int 14 (13) Wis 13 (12) Cha 9, Human [Mobile] Enchanter 1, Forge Cleric 1, Enchanter X. First level, use Expeditious Retreat and Mobile to kite, then pick up some nice Chain Mail and shield at level 2 for AC 19 (enchant your Chain Mail, unless it's more important to enchant the party fighter's weapon). You really hit your stride at level 4 because that's when Invisibility comes online. Note that Hypnotic Gaze does not break Invisibility (!) so you can cast Invisibility once and then run around hypnotizing monsters for several fights in a row, until you have to cast a Shield spell to shield against a lucky big hit or some other spell like Web to help the party. Hypnotic Gaze also doesn't break when you cast Sanctuary, or when somebody grapples the target or knocks them prone (remember, grappling/shoving is autosuccess against an incapacitated target, per PHB errata). Because you're Mobile, another thing you can do without spending any spell slots at all is to Booming Blade a target and then move away so they are "forced" to take the bonus damage. Once you get Instinctive Charm at 7th level (Enchanter 6), you are sturdy enough to venture into melee in order to use it--Instinctive Charm goes well with Dodge actually, which goes well with your high AC, and if you're already Dodging you can even deliberately provoke an opportunity attack from an enemy so that you can (with high probability) force him to hit his buddy instead of you, since you know exactly who's going to be within his reach when he makes that opportunity attack.

You'll be a very tiny bit less effective than a similar Enchanter with Int 16 but eh, who cares, the main thing is you've still got great AC and plenty of movement. Eventually you'll take Resilient (Con) to bump your Con up to 12 for some extra HP and better Con saves.

Later on you can do fun stuff like Split Enchantment (Tasha's Hideous Laughter), or Invisibility + Split Enchantment (Charm Monster) to sneak ahead and (attempt to) charm monsters two at a time BEFORE the fight starts so they don't get advantage on their saves, so you can use them to help protect you from other monsters (with a suitable roleplayed rationale + negotiation). Charm Monster doesn't take concentration BTW. Make sure you take Stealth proficiency--you'll still be pretty good at sneaking despite having "only" Dex 10, although you might have to switch armors to breastplate in order to pull it off, unless you have a Pass Without Trace caster in your party.

Speaking of which, that's another classic and very fun thing to do with those stats: play a Goblin Moon Druid (with Skulker feat when you pick it up). Str 9 Dex 14 (12) Con 14 (13) Int 9 Wis 11 Cha 10. Pass Without Trace + Nimble Escape + Skulker lets you hide almost at-will from anything relying on darkvision, and you can use Nimble Escape to do other things like position yourself for a nice Thunderclap, or turn into an Earth Elemental at 10th level and kite enemies from inside the floor (hit them, then bonus action Disengage into the floor to avoid retaliation, unless it's dark enough to Hide and then you do that instead). Plus all the normal druidy goodness like Conjure Animals.

Wizards (Diviner or Necromancer), possibly mixed in with Artificer for more AC, are also an option that will bring value to your party.

Also if you don't feel like playing a spellcaster, Ancestral Barbarians work well with those stats, in the sense that you can protect your party. I would recommend a Dex-based ancestral barb (Goblin might still be a good option) so that you can shoot your arrows from a long ways away and impose disadvantage/half damage on a big bad guy without putting yourself too much at risk.

[Dork_Forge]

I think your best bet here would be a Moon Druid, either a Hill Dwarf so you end up with a decent hp pool at least or a vanilla human because it'll bump for of your stats and leave the other two ripe for bumping at 4th or with half feats. If possible try and grab at least a +1 in Dex, dumping Str and Int are your safest bets. Hill Dwarf Life Cleric is also a decent option since Disciple of Life will mitigate your lower Wis mod and the Channel Divinity is Wis agnostic.



The first thing I want to say is that those stats are still above average. This guy is not a loser. He might not be a superhuman Captain America or Tony Stark, but he's a fit and healthy police officer (Str 13 Con 12) or Army soldier, or an intelligent and well-liked high school science teacher (Int 13 Cha 12), or a highly-competent doctor, etc., even before you apply your racial modifiers. Don't underestimate him.

I'll resist the urge to rehash this from the other thread.


With that in mind, the main constraints you've got is that you'll have trouble multiclassing, and you can't move quickly in heavy armor unless either:

(1) You take the Mobile feat, or
(2) You play a HAM human with Str 15 (13 in Str, +1 from human, +1 from Heavy Armor Master).

Or you're a Dwarf, 25ft with their strong racials is still a lot better than 20ft.


You also won't excel at accuracy-intensive weapons options like GWM and Sharpshooter because they are very sensitive to initial stats, although Sharpshooter less so because of Archery style.

There's still a lot of fun stuff you can do though that isn't terribly stat-dependent. Here are a few:

Str 9 Dex 10 Con 11 Int 14 (13) Wis 13 (12) Cha 9, Human [Mobile] Enchanter 1, Forge Cleric 1, Enchanter X. First level, use Expeditious Retreat and Mobile to kite, then pick up some nice Chain Mail and shield at level 2 for AC 19 (enchant your Chain Mail, unless it's more important to enchant the party fighter's weapon). You really hit your stride at level 4 because that's when Invisibility comes online. Note that Hypnotic Gaze does not break Invisibility (!) so you can cast Invisibility once and then run around hypnotizing monsters for several fights in a row, until you have to cast a Shield spell to shield against a lucky big hit or some other spell like Web to help the party. Hypnotic Gaze also doesn't break when you cast Sanctuary, or when somebody grapples the target or knocks them prone (remember, grappling/shoving is autosuccess against an incapacitated target, per PHB errata). Because you're Mobile, another thing you can do without spending any spell slots at all is to Booming Blade a target and then move away so they are "forced" to take the bonus damage. Once you get Instinctive Charm at 7th level (Enchanter 6), you are sturdy enough to venture into melee in order to use it--Instinctive Charm goes well with Dodge actually, which goes well with your high AC, and if you're already Dodging you can even deliberately provoke an opportunity attack from an enemy so that you can (with high probability) force him to hit his buddy instead of you, since you know exactly who's going to be within his reach when he makes that opportunity attack.

You'll be a very tiny bit less effective than a similar Enchanter with Int 16 but eh, who cares, the main thing is you've still got great AC and plenty of movement. Eventually you'll take Resilient (Con) to bump your Con up to 12 for some extra HP and better Con saves.

Later on you can do fun stuff like Split Enchantment (Tasha's Hideous Laughter), or Invisibility + Split Enchantment (Charm Monster) to sneak ahead and (attempt to) charm monsters two at a time BEFORE the fight starts so they don't get advantage on their saves, so you can use them to help protect you from other monsters (with a suitable roleplayed rationale + negotiation). Charm Monster doesn't take concentration BTW. Make sure you take Stealth proficiency--you'll still be pretty good at sneaking despite having "only" Dex 10, although you might have to switch armors to breastplate in order to pull it off, unless you have a Pass Without Trace caster in your party.

...

Also if you don't feel like playing a spellcaster, Ancestral Barbarians work well with those stats, in the sense that you can protect your party. I would recommend a Dex-based ancestral barb (Goblin might still be a good option) so that you can shoot your arrows from a long ways away and impose disadvantage/half damage on a big bad guy without putting yourself too much at risk.

All of that is just as stat dependent as pretty much everything except GWM/SS:

Hypnotic Gaze keys off of your spell save DC, if you're using that you may as well be casting spells like normal. Otherwise playing a Wizard with a Con of +0 is generally not a good idea, especially when your go to strategy involves being within 5ft of the bad guys. Ancestral Barbarian still needs to hit reliably in order to use their main subclass ability, lower than average accuracy + range means that you'll lose Rage. A lot. Nevermind missing most of the perks of being a Barbarian.


Speaking of which, that's another classic and very fun thing to do with those stats: play a Goblin Moon Druid (with Skulker feat when you pick it up). Str 9 Dex 14 (12) Con 14 (13) Int 9 Wis 11 Cha 10. Pass Without Trace + Nimble Escape + Skulker lets you hide almost at-will from anything relying on darkvision, and you can use Nimble Escape to do other things like position yourself for a nice Thunderclap, or turn into an Earth Elemental at 10th level and kite enemies from inside the floor (hit them, then bonus action Disengage into the floor to avoid retaliation, unless it's dark enough to Hide and then you do that instead). Plus all the normal druidy goodness like Conjure Animals.

Goblin is off the table for the OP.

[MaxWilson]

Or you're a Dwarf, 25ft with their strong racials is still a lot better than 20ft.

I deliberately did not say Dwarf, because Dwarves never move quickly unless they are monks or Mobile. A 5' speed penalty is still enough of a penalty to make evading most monsters impossible without magic.

[Dork_Forge]

I deliberately did not say Dwarf, because Dwarves never move quickly unless they are monks or Mobile. A 5' speed penalty is still enough of a penalty to make evading most monsters impossible without magic.

Half of the available races are 25ft speed races, comparatively it isn't really a loss and you can still grab Mobile (and actually be faster than your starting speed) and/or Squat Nimbleness. In general trying to outrun monsters is a pretty bad idea as a regular strategy unless you're packing above average speed.

[Porcupinata]

Sorcerer is also a good choice for poor stats, because it's very tolerant of having a lower spell casting ability than most other classes and most of their other abilities run on sorcery points rather than "a number of times equal to your xxx modifier" limits.

Druids, Clerics, and Wizards get fewer prepared spells per day if they have a low Wis/Int
Warlocks rely on Eldritch Blast which uses Cha mod to hit and (with Agonising Blast) damage
Bards don't use Cha for number of prepared spells, but most of their spells require saves and they use Cha for their secondary mechanics
A sorcerer with a mediocre Cha is still pretty effective - especially a Wild Magic sorcerer, since you can use Tides of Chaos to get Advantage in order to compensate for a poor spell attack bonus. Plus, you can concentrate mostly on spells that don't require saving throws until you have chance to increase your Cha with an ASI.

I'm currently playing a Kobold Wild Magic Sorcerer who started with a Cha of 14, and he's lots of fun. If you played a Human one you could have a 14 Cha too.

[Unoriginal]

Maybe an Halfling Rogue?

Halflings are lucky, and Rogues's Expertises + big number of proficiencies would compensate for average stats.


The first thing I want to say is that those stats are still above average. This guy is not a loser. He might not be a superhuman Captain America or Tony Stark, but he's a fit and healthy police officer (Str 13 Con 12) or Army soldier,

Well a Guard NPC has STR 13, DEX 12, CON 12, INT 10, WIS 11, and CHA 10, so more or less accurate. But any lvl 1 character will have way more proficiencies and the like.

[Ir0ns0ul]

Mark of Warding Dwarf Abjuration Wizard X (loosely based on a build posted by LudicSavant at some thread I don’t remember)

Racial adjustments: INT 14 (13+1), CON 14 (12+2). Other stats to taste.

As an Abjurer you actually don’t care that much to AC, thanks to your Arcane Ward and the amazing synergy you can get from Armor of Agathys; your survivability is pretty much granted. Warding Dwarf can cast Mage Armor for free once a day, so it’s one less “mandatory” spell you don’t need to worry.

And since you’ll have less prepared spells anyway, you can still be super versatile with cantrips and rituals. Sleep and Magic Missile don’t care for save DC and they are super good spells at low levels.

If this is available at your table, I believe it’s the best way to circumvent poor star rolls. At 4 you get your INT to 16 and you will not even suffer.

[Throne12]

I rolled up a moon Druid with the feats warcaster & mageslayer. I just focused my highest stats on in order wis, con. Then int, cha with out ever higher stat i have left.. I'm not caring about my str, dex because ill be changing into animals. You can switch out con for int or cha if you like i just wanted a higher con when I get knocked out of wildshape. Only stat I worried about getting to 20 is wis.

[da newt]

Shepherd Druid is another option - your conjures don't care what your casting stat is, spike growth, fog cloud, spirit totems, guidance, resistance, pass without a trace ... lots of stuff that doesn't key on stats.

[RogueJK]

Moon Druid is the easiest class to play with suboptimal stats. When Wild Shaped, your PC's STR/DEX/CON don't matter. You'll want your highest stat in WIS, but even that doesn't have to be super high right off the bat.

So something like a Variant Human Moon Druid
STR 9+1
DEX 12
CON 11
INT 10
WIS 13
CHA 9+1

Take Observant (or the upcoming Tasha's feat Fey Touched) at Level 1 for +1 WIS and some additional benefits. Take +2 WIS at Level 4. Take Resilient CON at Level 8. Take +2 WIS at Level 12.


If you're wanting to play a non-Moon Druid melee character, a Hill Dwarf Nature Cleric is workable as well, if you pick Shillelagh as your Druid cantrip and wear Heavy Armor.
STR 11
DEX 10
CON 12+2
INT 9
WIS 13+1
CHA 9

Go +2 WIS at every ASI until it hits 20.


Another alternative is simply to ask the DM to let you use the Standard Array as an alternative. That's 15/14/13/12/10/8.

[Unoriginal]

Shepherd Druid is another option - your conjures don't care what your casting stat is, spike growth, fog cloud, spirit totems, guidance, resistance, pass without a trace ... lots of stuff that doesn't key on stats.

Shepherd Druid who lets their summoned underling do the dirty work... the Fairy Godfather.

[KorvinStarmast]

Recently I rolled stats of 9, 9, 10, 11, 12, and 13.
I'd try a half elf sorcerer.
9 13+1 11+1 9 10 12+2 gives
S 9 D 14 C 12 I 9 W 10 Ch 14.
Should work out OK, and the extra proficiencies might be very helpful.
Background: Really up to you. Criminal gets you tool proficiencies; Acolyte or Sage may help; Hermit may also fit.

[Stangler]

You can always go human fighter with PAM or Hand crossbow at level 1. Fighter is a particularly decent option because they get more ASI increases.

Artificer Armorer is also very single stat dependent starting level 3.

[Eldariel]

Yeah, just play a Druid. Their spells just WORK, they have Wildshape to fight if need be (even normal Wildshape is okay on lower levels) and you can contribute by casting your Concentration spell and walking away.

These stats want even a shapechanger or a minionmancer and Druids are the best at both, and the options are stat independent to boot. Shepherd or Moon depending on if you want to wreck superhard on Tier 1 or Tier 2-3. Vuman is just the best race. With those stats you can't really compete on that front so just get great utility feats (Alert, Lucky, Res: Con/Warcaster, Mobile, Magic Initiate, etc.) and rock face.

You might or might not want to get 20 Wis eventually. It does expand your options and gives you more spells prepared so it can be worthwhile but it's not a must by any stretch. 12 (racial +1 for 13) in Con to get 14 with Res: Con and 14 starting Wis (13 with racial +1) is more than fine. You really don't care that much about anything else so statwise broader races are kinda waste. Nothing really competes with Vuman feat with these rules.


Prepare stuff like Goodberry, Fog Cloud, Spike Growth, Pass without Trace, Conjure Animals (!!), Plant Growth, Conjure Woodland Beings, Polymorph, Freedom of Movement, etc.


TL;DR:
Vuman Moon/Shepherd Druid
14 Wis
13 Con

Pick Alert/Lucky/Res: Con/Mobile/Lucky/Warcaster in some order. Maybe Wis +6 eventually.

[MaxWilson]

Yeah, just play a Druid. Their spells just WORK, they have Wildshape to fight if need be (even normal Wildshape is okay on lower levels) and you can contribute by casting your Concentration spell and walking away.

These stats want even a shapechanger or a minionmancer and Druids are the best at both, and the options are stat independent to boot. Shepherd or Moon depending on if you want to wreck superhard on Tier 1 or Tier 2-3. Vuman is just the best race. With those stats you can't really compete on that front so just get great utility feats (Alert, Lucky, Res: Con/Warcaster, Mobile, Magic Initiate, etc.) and rock face.

You might or might not want to get 20 Wis eventually. It does expand your options and gives you more spells prepared so it can be worthwhile but it's not a must by any stretch. 12 (racial +1 for 13) in Con to get 14 with Res: Con and 14 starting Wis (13 with racial +1) is more than fine. You really don't care that much about anything else so statwise broader races are kinda waste. Nothing really competes with Vuman feat with these rules.


Prepare stuff like Goodberry, Fog Cloud, Spike Growth, Pass without Trace, Conjure Animals (!!), Plant Growth, Conjure Woodland Beings, Polymorph, Freedom of Movement, etc.


TL;DR:
Vuman Moon/Shepherd Druid
14 Wis
13 Con

Pick Alert/Lucky/Res: Con/Mobile/Lucky/Warcaster in some order. Maybe Wis +6 eventually.

I think Goblin is actually better than Vhuman in some ways here, especially if you go Moon Druid. Vhuman lets you pick up Resilient (Con) and Warcaster by 4th level, yes, and that's great for tanking in wildshape while still holding a Conjured Animals. However, HP aren't the only way to hold concentration--simply not being visible is another, and a Skulker Goblin with Pass Without Trace up is frankly hilarious in the dark. (Ultra-stealth hippo!)

I agree that the build you recommend is excellent, I just don't agree that nothing else competes. (Also, Aarakocra competes in its usual way--the inverse of goblin, it works if you think your campaign will take place mostly in wide-open areas instead of dank underground dungeons.)

[RogueJK]

I think Goblin is actually better

Also, Aarakocra competes in its usual way

Neither of which are options for the OP. Human, elf, dwarf, or halfling only.

[Eldariel]

I think Goblin is actually better than Vhuman in some ways here, especially if you go Moon Druid. Vhuman lets you pick up Resilient (Con) and Warcaster by 4th level, yes, and that's great for tanking in wildshape while still holding a Conjured Animals. However, HP aren't the only way to hold concentration--simply not being visible is another, and a Skulker Goblin is frankly hilarious in the dark. (Ultra-stealth hippo.)

I agree that the build you recommend is excellent, I just don't agree that nothing else competes. (Also, Aarakocra competes in its usual way--the inverse of goblin, it works if you think your campaign will take place mostly in wide-open areas instead of dank underground dungeons.)

The OP states that the only races available are Human, Dwarf, Elf and Halfling; among those no competitors exist.

EDIT: Wizard'd.

[MaxWilson]

Neither of which are options for the OP. Human, elf, dwarf, or halfling only.


The OP states that the only races available are Human, Dwarf, Elf and Halfling; among those no competitors exist.

EDIT: Wizard'd.

Whoops! You're right, I forgot the context.

[KorvinStarmast]

Human, elf, dwarf, or halfling
Hmmm

9, 9, 10, 11, 12, and 13.
Another choice.

Ghostwise Halfling Druid, circle of the moon. (Ghostwise is from Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide)

Str 9 D 12 C 12 I 10 W 14 Ch 10

Role Play opportunities abound, and you really are a little fellow out there in a big world. Some risks attain here due to how many concentration spells your druid has, but you can sometimes try to hide behind a medium sized creature . (Or is that only a lightfoot trait? Yeah, naturally stealthy is lightfoot only)

[MaxWilson]

Hmmm

Another choice.

Ghostwise Halfling Druid, circle of the moon. (Ghostwise is from Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide)

Str 9 D 12 C 12 I 10 W 14 Ch 10

Role Play opportunities abound, and you really are a little fellow out there in a big world. Some risks attain here due to how many concentration spells your druid has, but you can sometimes try to hide behind a medium sized creature . (Or is that only a lightfoot trait? Yeah, naturally stealthy is lightfoot only)

Naturally Stealthy is a very confusing trait. It's super-unclear what value it's supposed to have and whether e.g. monsters who shift their positioning slightly are supposed to be able to see you now or not. I suppose it works best at tables where DMs take cues from the players, and e.g. shift the way they handle Stealth to be more generous when there's a Lightfoot halfling in play.

[KorvinStarmast]

Naturally Stealthy is a very confusing trait. It's super-unclear what value it's supposed to have and whether e.g. monsters who shift their positioning slightly are supposed to be able to see you now or not. I suppose it works best at tables where DMs take cues from the players, and e.g. shift the way they handle Stealth to be more generous when there's a Lightfoot halfling in play. I think that the way it is expected to be played is not that the halfling stands stock still, but 'uses the larger team mate's moving body as cover' in the same wah that a running back or kick returner uses a blocker on a sweep or during a kickoff return' - in a dynamic way.
The enemy is moving and so is the halfling and the team member (however subtly) during that six-second flurry of activity that is a round.

[MaxWilson]

I think that the way it is expected to be played is not that the halfling stands stock still, but 'uses the larger team mate's moving body as cover' in the same wah that a running back or kick returner uses a blocker on a sweep or during a kickoff return' - in a dynamic way.
The enemy is moving and so is the halfling and the team member (however subtly) during that six-second flurry of activity that is a round.

That makes sense, but it conflicts with the way many DMs like to run stealth/hiding, wherein if you leave the conditions which allowed you to Hide in the first place you are automatically revealed. (I don't run it that way but many do.)

[KorvinStarmast]

That makes sense, but it conflicts with the way many DMs like to run stealth/hiding, wherein if you leave the conditions which allowed you to Hide in the first place you are automatically revealed. (I don't run it that way but many do.)
I think that it's easier to apply ToTM than on a grid.
YMMV.

[SLOTHRPG95]

Mountain Dwarf Wizard, focusing mostly on party buffing and no-save utility at first, with minionmancy coming online at the beginning of T2. I'd go with Necromancy over Conjuration, but just as a matter of taste. Str 11 Dex 13 Con 14 Int 11 Wis 10 Cha 9, w/ medium armor your AC will be decent and you can round out Dex/Int to pick up an extra spell prepared. Rituals will be your friend even moreso than the average wizard, as you won't get a lot of spells prepared for your first few levels. Ask your DM if you can switch out one of the normal dwarven weapon proficiencies for the heavy x-bow, since you're not going to be relying on damaging cantrips anyways and might as well have a marginally better ranged weapon at your disposal.

I think I'd start with any six of: Alarm, Comprehend Languages, Detect Magic, Find Familiar, Fog Cloud, Sleep, Tenser's Floating Disk, and/or Unseen Servant. Maybe pick up Magic Missile at 2nd to have a damaging spell as a backup option, and start picking up party-friendly spells like Invisibility, Magic Weapon, Fly, and Haste soon after. Starting at 5th or 6th, you can have skeleton archers buff your in-combat direct damage (via Animate Dead), and starting at 9th you have Conjure Elemental/Planar Binding, and all that that entails.

Sure, the stats you rolled aren't the best, but they're far from useless.

[MaxWilson]

Mountain Dwarf Wizard, focusing mostly on party buffing and no-save utility at first, with minionmancy coming online at the beginning of T2. I'd go with Necromancy over Conjuration, but just as a matter of taste.

Note that Enchantment is also an option (Tiny Servant, Animate Objects). Goes well with Darkness/Fog Cloud to give your minions advantage (because blindsight), especially if there's a druid in your party summoning cobras (Giant Poisonous Snakes) which also have blindsight.

5E has so much diversity that no 4-PC party can exploit all of the available potential synergies between 12 classes + ~100 subclasses. Therefore no matter what your stats are, you can bring a ton of value to the table just by choosing the right class + subclass to synergize with the other PCs. We're talking a lot about summoners on this thread because in a vacuum they're an easy pick, but it could turn out instead that what your party really needs it someone who can cast Aura of Vitality and Revivify, and then maybe Lore Bard (with Moderately Armored feat for AC) is the right choice despite mediocre Cha.

[SLOTHRPG95]

Note that Enchantment is also an option (Tiny Servant, Animate Objects). Goes well with Darkness/Fog Cloud to give your minions advantage (because blindsight), especially if there's a druid in your party summoning cobras (Giant Poisonous Snakes) which also have blindsight.


Forgot that Tiny Servants are an option, largely since they aren't at our table. Animate Objects is great, and can provide that extra "burst" of minionmancy when it's most crucial, but there's no reason to not also combine that w/ a Necromancer's full-time thralls since the latter don't require concentration.

[Teaguethebean]

Other than a moon druid I would second a hill dwarf cleric who wears heavy armor. Forge, Life or some other support focused cleric would work amazingly.

[Contrast]

I was going to suggest Divine Soul sorc (Hexblade dip for armour optional).

Con save prof means you can keep your ASIs focused on improving your main stat.

Between using spell slots for Shield/Absorb Elements/Bless/Enhance Ability/Invisibility/Twinned Haste/Twinned Polymorph/Twinned Greater Invisibility you can go quite a long way without worrying too much about your stats. Spirit Guardians is probably also still good even if your DC is lagging a couple of points behind.


Though honestly, if you choose your race sympathetically, starting with 14s in a stat is perfectly fine and within the range of 'not particularly noticeable at the actual table' in my experience. This may be different of course if everyone else in the party rolled well and has 20s in their main stat but hey, thats what you sign up for when you roll for stats *shrugs*

[OldTrees1]

Recently I rolled stats of 9, 9, 10, 11, 12, and 13.

Any other ideas? And before you get too esoteric, races are limited to human, elf, dwarf, and halfling.

Human: 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 10 -> Any class will do. The Devs designed the game to be fine with a starting 14.
Elf: 14 Int/Wis/Cha, 13 Con, 13 Dex, 10, 9, 9 -> A caster looks fun.
Mountain Dwarf: 15 Str, 14 Con, 11, 10, 9, 9 -> Any Str based warrior / rogue.
Hill Dwarf: 14 Wis, 13 Con, 13 Dex, 10, 9, 9 -> A wis caster looks fun.
Stout Halfling: 14 Dex, 14 Con, 11, 10, 9, 9 -> Any Dex based warrior / rogue.
Lightfoot Halfling: 14 Cha, 13 Con, 13 Dex, 10, 9, 9 -> A cha caster looks fun.

[opaopajr]

Four+ odd values, Basic Human really tempts me. Any class/archetype is solid thereafter, due to less save weaknesses etc.

Given 13, so highest stat is 15, means settle for the 14 and buff as many secondary, tertiary, or more stats as possible... unless there's some racial features you really wanna try out.

Otherwise, go have fun and don't worry. Everything works fine, what matters more is playing smart and together. :smallcool: I have seen people not playing smart or cooperatively wipe out so many of their high stat wonders it is commonplace.