Memory, and other neo-skills

[weckar]

In many cases it comes up that a character needs to remember something the player does not remember, or ever knew. Lacking apparent RAW, we have generally come to treat this in our group as a Wisdom check.

Now, a player in our group wants to actually become good at these rolls, and wants to know if it would be possible for them to put ranks in a Wisdom-based Memory skill. While I see no immediate objections, this would be the first time someone would create a skill not in RAW, so I figured it would be good to get other people's experiences.

On one hand, the lack of rules on this particular subject seem a glaring omission. On the other, allowing it seems like it could be a slippery slope to other non-codified skills.

[Zanos]

I would think memory would be intelligence, since intelligence governs every Knowledge skill.


Wisdom describes a character’s willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition.
Nothing about memory or recollection here.

Intelligence determines how well your character learns and reasons.
'Learning' is certainly an aspect of memory.

I guess you can make an autohypnosis check to trick your brain into memorizing something, but that's kind of a different process than actual memory.

I do think it's kind of weird to have characters roll checks to remember stuff. I mean, you could just take OOC notes.

[weckar]

We could take notes, but this group just.... doesn't....

We settled on wisdom because it governs the perception skills, and memory is often linked to how clearly you registered something in the first place.

These are often rolls of the type "Did I ever see this person before?" "What was the exact wording he used, again?"

[Biggus]

The only mention of memory I know of is in the Knowledge skill. In the bit about identifying monsters, it says that the higher you roll, the more bits of information you can remember about that creature.

In general, skills which require you to be able to remember verbal or technical information (Speak Language, Appraise, Disable Device, Decipher Script, Craft, Spellcraft) are all Intelligence-based. Heal, Profession and Survival on the other hand are Wisdom-based, which in general are more about learning how to do something.

So I'd say that Intelligence (or an Intelligence-based skill) would be used for questions like "What was the exact wording he used, again?" as it's verbal information, and Wisdom for "Did I ever see this person before?" as it's perception-based, you're remembering something that happened to you.

This division isn't perfect by any means (Disable Device and some Craft and Profession skills don't fit it neatly) but I think it's as near to a rule of thumb you're going to get as to how memory works in 3.5.

[Segev]

When it comes up, I usually ask for intelligence checks. However, I encourage you to look at the Autohypnosis skill. It is associated with psionics, but it can be taken by anybody even if it’s not a class skill for them. It is Wisdom-based. Amongst its functions is memorizing pages.

That said, if you want to make a “memory skill” with full mechanics, I’d make it an Intelligence skill. Rolling on it allows you to “relive” scenes you have experienced and remake any rolls (Perception, search, sense motive, or the like) that can see if you noticed or can recall details, with the maximum result capped by your Memory roll.

I’d use knowledge for remembering facts about subjects.

[Doctor Despair]

My DM has used wisdom for the entire time I've played, but I recently became of the opinion it probably should be intelligence (as it's associated with the knowledge skills). Segev beat me to referencing the autohypnosis skill as an adendum, so I'll second that that would be the best RAW way to do it.

[Spiderswims]

Most of the time in most games I run I'm the type of GM that tells the players they must take notes if they want to remember any game information.

I'm even the type of GM who will happily sell players a copy of my 'player notes'.


But

If your playing a more casual game, where people 'just' don't take notes, you might just want to keep it casual. Just tell the player whatever their character would remember.

Too often the Roll to Remember is just pointless and really just wastes game time. Either the roll is so easy that the player just always makes it no matter what or even if the player does fail the roll the GM still has to tell the player something or the game will often just grind to a halt.

[Doctor Despair]

To be fair, "what their character would remember" can be a little abitrary, which is why people look for RAW ways to do it without letting internal bias into it, such as autohypnosis, or the int check (which, I suppose, could be called a Knowledge: RECENT History check, to be a little tongue-in-cheek).

[Segev]

Most of the time in most games I run I'm the type of GM that tells the players they must take notes if they want to remember any game information.

I'm even the type of GM who will happily sell players a copy of my 'player notes'.


But

If your playing a more casual game, where people 'just' don't take notes, you might just want to keep it casual. Just tell the player whatever their character would remember.

Too often the Roll to Remember is just pointless and really just wastes game time. Either the roll is so easy that the player just always makes it no matter what or even if the player does fail the roll the GM still has to tell the player something or the game will often just grind to a halt.

I tend to use the roll for specific details that I know the PCs have experienced, but which the players are expressing either a mistaken memory of, themselves, or seem to be missing. Sometimes I use it for when they are clearly aware they have a clue or puzzle here, and I know they HAVE the piece of info, but they seem not to be connecting the dots.

If it's crucial, and I expected they'd just remember, I am often doing this in the way that I sometimes use rolls: the highest roll is the one who remembers/knows/notices the thing. Somebody WILL get it, but rather than tell the players OOC, I find it nice to let one of the PCs have a moment of insight to share with the others. If it's not critical but just a neat bit of information, I feel it important that the possibility to miss such things exist, because without that possibility, the PCs are not really accomplishing things, but having them handed to them. It makes the things they do discover more meaningful when they really did discover them, themselves. So, if it's not crucial, I will actually set a DC or simply not even ask them to roll.

The final way I'll use it is if the players themselves know they had some bit of information, and it's reasonable their characters would remember it better than they would. This is quite feasible; characters live the setting, while players only hear about it from the DM's narration.

[Ruethgar]

I would go with Autohypnosis.

If you allow Spheres of Power, Mental Archive from the Mind Sphere could work somewhat, if you aren’t otherwise using the system then it is two feats to get. Basic Magical Training and Advanced Magical Training to get you a casting tradition for more mind magic.

While limited use to specic rather than general memories, still thematically appropriate. IIRC up to casting stat in perfect memories plus being able to spend your one spell point per day on making a memory permanent.

Inward Focus will nix your Suggestion effect and put you as pretty much just Mental Archive or other cognition effects if you can manage them(Blatant Side Effects and Lost in Translation drawbacks cost pretty much nothing for a cognition specialist).

[Quertus]

In 3e, I just crib autohypnosis.

For things that I know that the PCs witnessed...

a) Is it something that they legitimately just misunderstood, like if the author said she "looks like a cheerleader", and they envisioned that differently than the author intended, or I said "pineapple" and they remember "some kind of apple", or I said "a lot", and they remember "50" (sorry, can't remember / invent a better example atm)? Then I'll just give it to them.

b) Is it something that their characters could legitimately remember it that way, like I said "50" and they remember "a lot", or I showed them a picture of sunflowers, and they remember "flowers"? I may give it to them, call for a role, or just tell them that they are missing some details from what I said (but not what those details are). For example, the other day I had them roll to remember and notice that *one* of the symbols that they were seeing was a symbol that they had seen before.

c) Is it something that my senile mind wonders how anyone could possibly remember? Then I'll give them a roll, at disadvantage.

[Psyren]

Intelligence check for memory at our table. However, things like insight and intuition are the province of Wisdom, so you could easily arrive at the same (correct) answer to a problem, or avoid the same danger, that way; our GM tweaks the information slightly depending on which attribute we won with, but the most important bits are usually still there.