How to apply templates to cohorts

[Melcar]

Ok so, how would one handle applying a template to one's cohort? Specifically Hooded Pupil?

The character is level 6, the cohort is level 4, and the character has 14 leadership modifier for attracting cohorts.

I'm unsure of how this should be handled, considering the template has +4 LA.

Any rules clarification or suggestiong would be great!

Thanks in advance!

[Kayblis]

Cohorts are built like characters. If you have a level 4 Cohort, it can't have a +4 LA template, because that'd require him to have level zero. You'll be able to have it from next level onwards, as a 1st-level character with the template, but until then you need to have a valid cohort.

[Doctor Despair]

Cohorts are built like characters. If you have a level 4 Cohort, it can't have a +4 LA template, because that'd require him to have level zero. You'll be able to have it from next level onwards, as a 1st-level character with the template, but until then you need to have a valid cohort.

Technically, couldn't OP have a level 1 cohort for this level, leave them at home for dangerous situations or have them fetch coffee or something, and then apply the template when OP levels up?

[GrayDeath]

As stated above, treat them simply as a character with a maximum Level of 2 (or with Thrallherd/Dragon Cohort 1) Level below your Character.

Everything esle should come naturally from that.

[Doctor Despair]

I suppose it bears mentioning: the Incarnate Construct acquired template from Savage Species (page 121) lowers the LA of the creature by 2 (minimum 0), so you could attract a level 1 warforged cohort (ECL 1), apply the Incarnate Construct template (ECL 0 1), and then apply the LA +4 template you want (ECL 4 3).

Given the freedom to attract any cohort you want, you can be a little more efficient about it by applying the templates in the reverse order: attract a level 2 warforged character with the LA +4 template you want (ECL 6) who LATER had the Incarnate Construct template applied (ECL 4).

[Melcar]

Technically, couldn't OP have a level 1 cohort for this level, leave them at home for dangerous situations or have them fetch coffee or something, and then apply the template when OP levels up?

So, just wait with bringing the cohort on adventures until he's actually high enough level to survive?


As stated above, treat them simply as a character with a maximum Level of 2 (or with Thrallherd/Dragon Cohort 1) Level below your Character.
Everything esle should come naturally from that.

Right... this is incidentally how I thought it had to be done. However, the player already has the cohort at level 4, I'm fairly certain he does not want to de-level him...

BTW how is dragon cohort treated when the character increase in level? Does the Cohort receive class levels or HD or age categories?



I suppose it bears mentioning: the Incarnate Construct acquired template from Savage Species (page 121) lowers the LA of the creature by 2 (minimum 0), so you could attract a level 1 warforged cohort (ECL 1), apply the Incarnate Construct template (ECL 0 1), and then apply the LA +4 template you want (ECL 4 3).

Given the freedom to attract any cohort you want, you can be a little more efficient about it by applying the templates in the reverse order: attract a level 2 warforged character with the LA +4 template you want (ECL 6) who LATER had the Incarnate Construct template applied (ECL 4).

Im going to be checking that out!

Again thanks!

[GrayDeath]

So, just wait with bringing the cohort on adventures until he's actually high enough level to survive?



Right... this is incidentally how I thought it had to be done. However, the player already has the cohort at level 4, I'm fairly certain he does not want to de-level him...

BTW how is dragon cohort treated when the character increase in level? Does the Cohort receive class levels or HD or age categories?



The first is ALWAYS the preferred modus operandi unless youre a thrallherd.

And as for leveling up: normally the Dragon would simply advance Dragon HD, and advance in ana ge category once enough HD have accrued if you chose your Cohort old enough....sadly that can only reliably work if you choose them very early (Hatchling/very young poses no rpoblem whatsoever, later categories though...).

later on, you have to choose between inner world versimillitude (my dragona dvanced 11 HD in 2 years. Yes that means he is now 29 years older. So what?^^) and hence going for class levels, or generally more fitting Dragonness and somehow finagle his aging (we are lucky in that case, our Caster has create Demiplane, so I left my blue dragon companion ther eto age accordingly until I was satisfied with his size and ability scores, now hes advancing Crusader Levels ^^).

[Remuko]

The first is ALWAYS the preferred modus operandi unless youre a thrallherd.

And as for leveling up: normally the Dragon would simply advance Dragon HD, and advance in ana ge category once enough HD have accrued if you chose your Cohort old enough....sadly that can only reliably work if you choose them very early (Hatchling/very young poses no rpoblem whatsoever, later categories though...).

later on, you have to choose between inner world versimillitude (my dragona dvanced 11 HD in 2 years. Yes that means he is now 29 years older. So what?^^) and hence going for class levels, or generally more fitting Dragonness and somehow finagle his aging (we are lucky in that case, our Caster has create Demiplane, so I left my blue dragon companion ther eto age accordingly until I was satisfied with his size and ability scores, now hes advancing Crusader Levels ^^).

Draconomicon has rules preventing Dragons from gaining past a certain racial HD threshold until theyre old enough to have that HD/Age Category. They can just take class levels like any other intelligent being though.

[GrayDeath]

Draconomicon has rules preventing Dragons from gaining past a certain racial HD threshold until theyre old enough to have that HD/Age Category. They can just take class levels like any other intelligent being though.

I know.

A rule being there does not prevent the above situation, which is why I posted both versions of accomplishing the specific Cohort Problem.

I did not say Dragons in an empty room should advance like that.

[Prime32]

Most templates are vastly over-costed. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?518086-The-LA-assignment-archive)

Taking the hooded pupil template rather than four character levels means

You have significantly less HP than a standard character of your level
You have -2 to your good saving throws, and -1 to your bad saving throws. Then +2 to Reflex saves. So how much this hurts depends on what your saves were like already.
Despite the template being fluffed as sneaky, you're less perceptive and worse at hiding than a normal sneaky-person of your level (-4 skill ranks in exchange for a +2 bonus), and can't enter stealth-based PrCs as easily. Your other skills are even worse (equivalent to the difference between Str 10 and Str 18).
Because your HD are 4 lower, you can be killed instantly by anti-mook spells like cloudkill that your allies are immune to. This is especially painful for a cohort, who's 2 HD behind already.
Instead of up to a +4 bonus your attack rolls, plus the other benefits of higher BAB (iterative attacks, qualifying for feats/PrCs, using Power Attack better, etc.) that Strength bonus gives you a flat +1 and nothing else.
If you're a spellcaster then you're missing out on two whole levels of spells, and the strongest magic you can throw out is -4 caster levels and -1 save DC behind compared to a regular character. For comparison, a character with the Mage Slayer feat (whose fluff is that they hate magic) takes a -4 CL penalty and no DC penalty.
You can cast a 3rd-level spell 1/day (a worse version of hold person). If you spent that LA on cleric levels, you could cast it multiple times per day. If you're high-level and you spent it on ur-priest levels or something then you could cast even better stuff.
Cold resistance 5 is both minor and situational.
+2 natural armor isn't amazing, but it's at least something that's useful and you wouldn't have normally.
You can climb well, but by this level flight has already started to come online.
You have a special attack where, instead of killing a helpless opponent easily, you can inflict 2 Constitution damage on them instead. And even then you can only use it 1/day, and only on opponents who're already damaged. They couldn't at least make it heal you or something?
You get Improved Initiative as a bonus feat, and it's a good feat but if you'd taken those character levels you'd have an extra feat slot anyway.


It's worth 2 character levels at most, and house-ruling it down to that will make it much easier to apply without disrupting the game. The most significant thing here is the spell-like ability (which can potentially win combats if you have an ally attack while the opponent is paralysed), but you can just follow the example of templates like fiendish/half-fiend and say it only becomes available when you're lv5 or higher.