Quick Consult: Vuman Shield Master vs Half-Elf for Devotion Paladin

[Mercureality]

Hey all,

Starting a Curse of Strahd campaign soon, and I'll be taking on the role of a Devotion Paladin. We're doing point buy. My party is a Blood Hunter, Druid, Cleric, Rogue. Rogue and Blood Hunter will be melee, the Druid and Cleric are likely going to trend blasty/ranged. Starting at level 1.

I'm torn on my start. If I stick with Half-Elf, I'll have the following stats plus the various Half-Elf niceties:

Str 16
Dex 8
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 16

OR

I can go Variant Human and take Shield Master, thereby losing 2 points of CON and Half-Elf features, but gaining the feat and a bonus action to use each round of combat. Notably, my DM will allow the shove BEFORE attacks, as long as the attack action is committed to.

I also thought about vuman and GWM to abuse Sacred Weapon + Bless, or just PAM, but I've played a few PAM/GWM builds lately, so I'm deliberately choosing to go sword and board and committing to Duelist for this character.

Thoughts? What would you do? Is there something I'm missing? Thanks!

[Corran]

You could look at the inspiring leader feat too. With 5 pc's and 3 of them in melee, you are going to get a pretty good mileage out of it. And I've heard that CoS is very tough in the beginning, so it's good that this feat starts very strong early.

[Ir0ns0ul]

I personally love Shield Master, but even allowing the shoves to happen before, it’s not a very good feat if you don’t invest more resources on it. First and foremost, you would need to get some sort of boost to your Athletics checks in order to reliably shove everyone — Expertise, advantage, buffs, etc. For this, I would suggest Oath of Glory instead of Devotion because they have a Channel Divinity option who gives you Advantage on Athletics checks for 10 minutes.

Having said that and considering you want to be a Duelist, if you go to vHuman route, I suggest you to take PAM, but use Shield & Spear! You’ll attack two times with the +2 and you can even simulate the benefits of Shield Master: take the Attack action, shove instead of simply attack first and then follow-up with your bonus action attack from PAM.

[KorvinStarmast]

I suggest you to take PAM, but use Shield & Spear! You’ll attack two times with the +2 and you can even simulate the benefits of Shield Master: take the Attack action, shove instead of simply attack first and then follow-up with your bonus action attack from PAM. I am not sure that works, but it's an interesting idea.

I am not sure that the shove is an attack with the spear. I'll be happy to be shown that I am in error, however. That said, the spear based Opportunity Attack when you are mixing it up and enemies close with you is a nice feature that Shield Master does not have.

1. When you take the Attack action and attack with only a glaive, halberd, quarterstaff or spear, you can use a bonus action to make a melee attack with the opposite end of the weapon. The bonus attack uses the same ability modified as the main attack. The weapon’s damage die for this attack is a d4, and the attack deals bludgeoning damage. This attack uses the same ability modifier as the primary attack.
2. While you are wielding a glaive, halberd, pike, quarterstaff or spear, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter your reach.

As to your half elf idea: I am a fan of Half Elf paladins, but here's what I'd suggest.

If you instead go 16 10 14 8 12 16 you get no minuses to your dexterity save (there are lots of them) and your Wisdom score gets a boost. That said, I'd go ahead and leave Wis at 10 and boost Dex to 12 for three reasons.
16 12 14 8 10 16
1. Wis saves you are proficient in
2. Dex saves are common and you could use a boost
3. A modest boost to your initiative rather than a penalty.

[CheddarChampion]

There was never an enemy that used magical sleep.
There were a few things that could charm.
Darkvision was relevant very often: light sources were like someone taped a paper to your back that said "Attack me!"

Darkvision is the big one. I'd pick up stealth proficiency if most of the group has it. Charm resistance isn't as big a deal if you already have Wis save proficiency and it becomes obsolete if you get to level 7 for Aura of Devotion.
So I say half-elf with 16/10/14/10/10/16 and stealth proficiency, boosting your Charisma when you can for the most impactful aura you can muster. Or Shield Master at level 4 if you're tied to the idea.

[Mercureality]

Thanks for the feedback!

I won't be the only character without darkvision, so it's a nice-to-have, but not essential. I realize that PAM is probably most optimal, but PAM isn't in the cards, especially since it's fairly likely that I'll end up with the sunblade in this module when that time arrives, and I sincerely doubt that it'll get re-flavored into a spear.

I'm hearing you about stats though. It's not quite a bump to DEX, but maybe I can drop Shield Master at first level, and pick up Resilient Con instead? It'll let me spare the points to get DEX to 10, and the boosted con saves for concentration would be nice since I don't have a lot of spell slots to spare for self buffs. I'd end up with:

str 16
dex 10
con 14
int 8
wis 10
cha 16

I'm planning to bump str and cha to 18 with ASIs. Saving throws after level 6 would range from reasonable to great across the board.

I could also skip the strength ASI and take Shield Master? That would further boost Dex saves along with its other benefits. Or Sentinel perhaps, since I'll have allies in melee, and squishies to protect. I'm not sure if either feat is worth more than the +2 to STR.

[KorvinStarmast]

T ... drop Shield Master at first level, and pick up Resilient Con instead? It'll let me spare the points to get DEX to 10, and the boosted con saves for concentration would be nice since I don't have a lot of spell slots to spare for self buffs. I'd end up with:

str 16
dex 10
con 14
int 8
wis 10
cha 16

I'm planning to bump str and cha to 18 with ASIs. Saving throws after level 6 would range from reasonable to great across the board.

I could also skip the strength ASI and take Shield Master? That would further boost Dex saves along with its other benefits. Or Sentinel perhaps, since I'll have allies in melee, and squishies to protect. I'm not sure if either feat is worth more than the +2 to STR.Works, and of the two, I'm hard pressed to pick between Sentinel and Shield Master. Who else is in the party?
Blood Hunter, Druid, Cleric, Rogue
What kind of druid, what kind of Cleric? I'll suggest sentinel as the lock down may synergize with rogues sneak attack ... hmmm...

[Mercureality]

Works, and of the two, I'm hard pressed to pick between Sentinel and Shield Master. Who else is in the party?
Blood Hunter, Druid, Cleric, Rogue
What kind of druid, what kind of Cleric? I'll suggest sentinel as the lock down may synergize with rogues sneak attack ... hmmm...

Lycan Blood Hunter, Circle of Stars Druid, and Twilight Cleric. We're using pre-Tasha's rules (at least until the book is officially released).

[KorvinStarmast]

Lycan Blood Hunter, Circle of Stars Druid, and Twilight Cleric. We're using pre-Tasha's rules (at least until the book is officially released). Since you are going sword and board, I'd still suggest Sentinel; tought call. The defensive benefits of Shield Master did not, for me, really shine until mid to late Tier 2 as we encountered more spell casting and more effects that called for a dex save.

[Mercureality]

Since you are going sword and board, I'd still suggest Sentinel; tought call. The defensive benefits of Shield Master did not, for me, really shine until mid to late Tier 2 as we encountered more spell casting and more effects that called for a dex save.

The shield master feature I was most excited about was the bonus action shove. The AC/saving throw bonus would barely ever come into play, with the single target stipulation. The evasion effect when passing a Dex save is quite nice, but it would only really kick in after level 6 when Aura of Protection means that I might actually pass one. So shield master is very cool, but has fallen a lot in my estimation as I've considered it.

Sentinel isn't quite as nice on the action economy front, but at least it gives me something more to do with my reaction. The stickiness will be more useful since the Blood Hunter is going wizard now. Still a tough call for me between the +2 str and the feat though.

[CTurbo]

Shield Master is over-rated IMO. I've never seen anybody that's taken it be happy with it. The Dex save boosts are the only features that interest me about it.

If you're looking for a reliable Bonus Action feature than PAM would be far more useful.

I agree with Inspiring Leader as a better starting feat if you want to avoid another PAM build. Heavy Armor Master is pretty decent. Sentinel is always good.

I'd rather take the Half-Elf approach without a feat though. Paladins don't really need any feats to shine.

[Mercureality]

Shield Master is over-rated IMO. I've never seen anybody that's taken it be happy with it. The Dex save boosts are the only features that interest me about it.

If you're looking for a reliable Bonus Action feature than PAM would be far more useful.

I agree with Inspiring Leader as a better starting feat if you want to avoid another PAM build. Heavy Armor Master is pretty decent. Sentinel is always good.

I'd rather take the Half-Elf approach without a feat though. Paladins don't really need any feats to shine.

I ended up going with resilient con and committing to vhuman, for better or worse. It solved my stat spread issues and helps protect my self-buffs.

But seriously, can you blame me? Get a load of this guy! (Our DM is a pop artist. He makes us custom tokens for roll20 and I love 'em)
https://www.heroforge.com/load_config%3D11633122/


https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/774364672929038347/774412285077618718/hark.png