Classes who makes you big

[Conradine]

The only classes which I found that grant a size increase are Dragon Disciple and Waker of the Beast ( Dragon Magazine ).
Do you know other classes - or feats - that increase size or at least add weight / limbs / bulk? If possible, muscles or limbs - no fat ( like the Vile Deformity - Obese ).

[noob]

There is a deformity that increase reach and arm length which is one of the advantage from being big that people likes.
Any class that grants polyvalent shapeshifting or shapeshifting in big creatures can increase size.
warshaper allows while shapeshifted to grow extra natural weapons and to increase the size of your natural weapons.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Totemist can add limbs, as can warshaper. You've probably already considered druids (and MoMF).
Goliath barbarians substitution levels (RoS) let you increase in size when raging iirc. I think the unerrataed version of Weretouched Master does too when shifting?

That's pretty much it afaik. Most size increases come from magic/psionics or magic items otherwise.

[Ruethgar]

Mineral Warrior I’m pretty sure adds weight. Slather yourself in pure elemental earth to double your weight.

Depending on your starting size, lycanthropy can grant a size boost.

Various monster classes probably can increase size. The lizardfolk and base ten true dragons are the only ones off the top of my head that don’t technically call out that you must be those races to take the class, however illogical that is.

[Heavenblade]

Thrall of kostchie prc gives you size boostss wheen rage if I recall correctly

As do the goliath barbarian substituion levels, I think?

[Gruftzwerg]

Giant Size spell (Wu-Jen 7) can size you up to colossal size (depending on chaster lvl).

[False God]

I'm a big fan of the Shapeshift Druid variant, for when you want to have all the druidic magic but not deal with finding the perfect animal forms. While I understand animal forms are one of its biggest powerups, with a restrictive DM, it can be very un-fun.

Anyway, Shapeshift Druid, you can become a Huge size elemental for an unlimited amount of time by level 16. And technically speaking, the class "increases your size" by a certain number of steps (2 on the high end, max colossal) so if your base race is already large, you can get up to colossal.

[Venger]

fleshwarper also adds limbs.

[liquidformat]

Druid and a most of its variants
Ranger with wild shape variant
Enlarge spell
Expansion power for Psywarrior
Totemist
Goliath Barbarian Substitution Levels
Halfling Barbarian Substitution Levels
Weretouched Master
Master of Many Forms
Deformity (Tall)
Giant Size Wu-Jen

[Venger]

Great and small (feat)
Steal size (spell)

[StSword]

Well you didn't specify if your table is open to pathfinder material, but Little Red Goblin Games created a class that was all about being large and in charge- The Thane (https://lrgg.fandom.com/wiki/Thane).

Pathfinder also has the Living Monolith (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/i-m/living-monolith/) prestige class, and purple duck games created a prestige archetype Living Monolith (http://hastur.net/wiki/Living_Monolith_(Apath)) for the Barbarian.

[ShurikVch]

Athasian Dragon epic PrC (Dragon #339)

If 3rd-party stuff is OK - Midnight Campaign Setting have Giantblooded heroic path (setting-specific game mechanics): in the Midnight 1E, it gave Large size from the very 1st level; Midnight 2E "spread" benefits of Large size to 10 levels (become Large at 10th level, but can use weapons for Large-sized creatures from the very 1st level)

[Zaq]

I feel like the 10th level of green star adept should fall in this category. However, by RAW, it does not say that you actually become heavier when your flesh is replaced with starmetal, so by the actual rules there's no change on that front.

Renegade mastermaker allows you to attach or embed warforged components into your body, and some of those have measurable weight.

Presumably you're not counting stuff like warshaper and other temporary shapeshifting, right?

[Venger]

In order to maintain their weight, green star adepts are hollow, like inexpensive easter bunnies.

[Zaq]

In order to maintain their weight, green star adepts are hollow, like inexpensive easter bunnies.

Explains where the CON score went.

[DarkOne-Rob]

It's not on 100% of the time, but Abyssal Bloodragers (Pathfinder) get Enlarge Person during their Bloodrages starting at level 4.

Also, Orc-Bloodline Sorcerers can get their size increased from one of their Bloodline Powers.

[ShurikVch]

Feats:
Jotunbrud (Races of Faerûn) - for Humans from Damara or Illusk
Hulking Brute (Dragonlance Campaign Setting) - for Half-Ogres or Krynnish Minotaurs

Both feats are "discount Powerful Build": the "effective size" is fixed on "Large", and don't allow to wield weapons intended for larger creatures without problems

[Venger]

Explains where the CON score went.
At 10th level, they have their friends spear them with a fondue fork, dip them in a pot of molten starmetal, wait for it to cool, and then let their mortal bodies rot and wither inside as they adventure until it trickles out the hole in the sole of their foot, like blowing the egg out of a shell. Or for a more humorous take, just pop the mortal body like a balloon coated in papier mache and let the dregs rattle around in the bottom of the foot indefinitely.

[Wildstag]

Wait, where does Dragon Disciple say that it gives you a size increase? It gives you wings in the PrC compared to the template only giving wings if the base creature is Large or bigger, but there is nothing in the text that makes you bigger.

Granted, it does give you immense strength boosts.


P.S.


Totemist can add limbs, as can warshaper.

Also, I'm not certain that Warshaper can add limbs. They just get the ability to add natural weapons to existing limbs. It's their transformations that grant them extra limbs.

[Khedrac]

Wait, where does Dragon Disciple say that it gives you a size increase? It gives you wings in the PrC compared to the template only giving wings if the base creature is Large or bigger, but there is nothing in the text that makes you bigger.
I think that was a 3.0 feature of the class - it changed with the move to 3.5.

[Gruftzwerg]

Also, I'm not certain that Warshaper can add limbs. They just get the ability to add natural weapons to existing limbs. It's their transformations that grant them extra limbs.

They can to some extend. Have a look at this list of natural weapons (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?286497-101-Natural-Weapons). Tentacle-arms are the most obvious way to get extra limbs.

edit: and if you want to go crazy..
Add claws (the type that can use weapons) onto your tentacle arms. warshaper is really cheesy..^^

[Wildstag]

Gruftzwerg, not only is that a wildly bizarre reading of Warshaper, it's not even backed up by the text of the PrC.

The Morphic Weapons (Su) ability states


As a move action, a warshaper can grow natural weapons such as claws or fangs, allowing a natural attack that deals the appropriate amount of damage according to the size of the new form... These morphic weapons need not be natural weapons that the creature already possesses. For example, a warshaper polymorphed into an ettin (Large giant) could grow a claw that deals 1d6 points of damage, or horns for a gore attack that deals 1d8 points of damage...

Nothing within that description indicates anything about adding limbs to the character, just adding natural attacks to existing body slots. Claws can go on arms that already exist, horns grow out of the head, fangs are just elongated teeth, etc. If that limb or extremity wasn't on the new body, you wouldn't be able to grow such an attack. That's more the domain of that one PrC that just gets to mix and match pieces of other transformations (I forget the name of it, will edit it in when I find it).

[ciopo]

I'm a big fan of the Shapeshift Druid variant, for when you want to have all the druidic magic but not deal with finding the perfect animal forms. While I understand animal forms are one of its biggest powerups, with a restrictive DM, it can be very un-fun.

Anyway, Shapeshift Druid, you can become a Huge size elemental for an unlimited amount of time by level 16. And technically speaking, the class "increases your size" by a certain number of steps (2 on the high end, max colossal) so if your base race is already large, you can get up to colossal.
I'm seconding the shapeshift druid variant.
A fun [ask your gm] thing about shapeshift variant is that, despite being in the same book that clarified stuff about polymorph "subschool" , it is not actually classed as a polymorph effect despite having most of the hallmarks of one (d'uh) , but mechanically it's (arguably, ask your dm!) Different enough, since it let's you keep your (ex) and (su) (and type!) and it describes the effects in terms of gain this or that typed/untyped bonues without actually being polymorphed.

All this buildup to say that your dm might give the okay to you being affected by enlarge person for extra bigness! Or if you want to get cheesey, you can polymorph to a bigger creature.... then shapeshift to a bigger version of that creature!

[Darg]

I think that was a 3.0 feature of the class - it changed with the move to 3.5.

I can confirm it was the Tome and Blood version. it increased your size by one step at level 5. The negative is that if it didn't increase your size to large or bigger you didn't get wings. Although, based on the reading you could grow them by using an enlarge spell and it specifically says to get to keep your wings if you already have them.

[Gruftzwerg]

Gruftzwerg, not only is that a wildly bizarre reading of Warshaper, it's not even backed up by the text of the PrC.

The Morphic Weapons (Su) ability states



Nothing within that description indicates anything about adding limbs to the character, just adding natural attacks to existing body slots. Claws can go on arms that already exist, horns grow out of the head, fangs are just elongated teeth, etc. If that limb or extremity wasn't on the new body, you wouldn't be able to grow such an attack. That's more the domain of that one PrC that just gets to mix and match pieces of other transformations (I forget the name of it, will edit it in when I find it).

Sorry, but it it's the complete opposite. Read the text carefully and realize how poorly it is worded:

1. You can grow any natural weapon in 3.5 without exception. Even crazy **** like the Disintegrating Touch from an Umbral Blot (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/umbralBlot.htm)
2. It doesn't say where to place your natural weapons (NW) or restrict you in any kind. But you can argue that there is a limitation to placing em so that they remain usable.
3. You can grow as many natural weapons as you want and combine em. There is no limit

So if you want to grow a limb, you just need to pick a natural weapon that is entirely a limb. Like a tentacle.

Note: I'm not implying to play your warshaper this cheesy (in fact, I barely play high op games). It is just the extend of what RAW makes possible.

[ciopo]

I agree with Gruftzwerg , with the caveat that the grownt limb can't be used for the purpose of holding objects or fine manipulations or iterative attacks

[Thurbane]

Fatemaker 10 gets a Righteous Might-like effect, 1/day.

[Darg]

Sorry, but it it's the complete opposite. Read the text carefully and realize how poorly it is worded:

1. You can grow any natural weapon in 3.5 without exception. Even crazy **** like the Disintegrating Touch from an Umbral Blot (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/umbralBlot.htm)
2. It doesn't say where to place your natural weapons (NW) or restrict you in any kind. But you can argue that there is a limitation to placing em so that they remain usable.
3. You can grow as many natural weapons as you want and combine em. There is no limit

So if you want to grow a limb, you just need to pick a natural weapon that is entirely a limb. Like a tentacle.

Note: I'm not implying to play your warshaper this cheesy (in fact, I barely play high op games). It is just the extend of what RAW makes possible.

1. Disintigrating Touch is an extraordinary ability not a natural weapon which makes it ineligible for Morphic Weapons.
2. Don't disagree
3. It's a magical effect being supernatural and all and my stance on it is outlined in this thread. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?621639-Multiple-spells-with-differing-effects) TL;DR magical effects don't stack from same sources if they have a bonus or penalty.

Any of these are safe (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Natural_Weapons). My favorite is a pair of wings. I can be a flightless anything, but I have wings.

[Gruftzwerg]

1. Disintigrating Touch is an extraordinary ability not a natural weapon which makes it ineligible for Morphic Weapons.
2. Don't disagree
3. It's a magical effect being supernatural and all and my stance on it is outlined in this thread. (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?621639-Multiple-spells-with-differing-effects) TL;DR magical effects don't stack from same sources if they have a bonus or penalty.

Any of these are safe (https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Natural_Weapons). My favorite is a pair of wings. I can be a flightless anything, but I have wings.

1:
Attack

This line shows the single attack the creature makes with an attack action. In most cases, this is also the attack the creature uses when making an attack of opportunity as well. The attack line provides the weapon used (natural or manufactured), attack bonus, and form of attack (melee or ranged).

Anything in the attack line has either to be a manufactured weapon or a natural weapon. Since manufactured is definitively to exclude, Disintegrating Touch has to be a natural weapon.

Further nothing in the Morphic Weapon ability implies that (Ex) weapons are to exclude. They just need to be "natural weapons", which is an indicator that is has to be inherit from the race and not gained by class, equip, template/whatsoever.

2. ---

3. The rule "Multiple spells with differing effects" only talks about spells. While the rest of the page mainly talks about effects overall (including non spell effects in their ruling), this one is specially meant for spells and not for effects that don't come from spells. This is the same reason why creatures can have Resistances/Immunities to multiple energy types while spells like Energy Immunity suppresses all instances of the same spell previously cast on the same target.

[Darg]

1. Every creature with a body can make an unarmed strike which is a natural weapon. Stat blocks only ever show unarmed strikes if they have the improved unarmed strike feat or its the only attack available. The Umbral Blot is using its unarmed strike natural weapon to make a touch attack. Even if you could grow eye stalks a ray attack is not a natural attack, but an extraordinary/supernatural ability empowering an attack. You could definitely make unarmed strikes with it though (ouch).

3. All the rules are referring to both spells and magical effects:


Several other general rules apply when spells or magical
effects operate in the same place:

You even get a parenthetical when it makes a more general statement. If we want to discuss this portion further, let's move this one to the other thread so we don't derail the thread.

[sleepyphoenixx]

1:

Anything in the attack line has either to be a manufactured weapon or a natural weapon. Since manufactured is definitively to exclude, Disintegrating Touch has to be a natural weapon.

Further nothing in the Morphic Weapon ability implies that (Ex) weapons are to exclude. They just need to be "natural weapons", which is an indicator that is has to be inherit from the race and not gained by class, equip, template/whatsoever.

Touch spells are also noted in the attack line if they're a relevant attack form, so that's definitely wrong.

"Natural weapon" is a clearly defined game term. It does not include (Ex) abilities that enhance natural attacks.

The Umbral Blot's Disintegrating Touch is an effect of it disintegrating everything is touches, so it only has to touch someone to deal damage.
Much in the same way a cleric using Inflict spells does. Which are also not natural weapons despite sometimes being listed in example statblocks.

[Gruftzwerg]

1. Every creature with a body can make an unarmed strike which is a natural weapon. Stat blocks only ever show unarmed strikes if they have the improved unarmed strike feat or its the only attack available. The Umbral Blot is using its unarmed strike natural weapon to make a touch attack. Even if you could grow eye stalks a ray attack is not a natural attack, but an extraordinary/supernatural ability empowering an attack. You could definitely make unarmed strikes with it though (ouch).

3. All the rules are referring to both spells and magical effects:



You even get a parenthetical when it makes a more general statement. If we want to discuss this portion further, let's move this one to the other thread so we don't derail the thread.
1.
Unarmed strikes are neither natural weapons nor manufactured weapon since they lack the requirements for both. The rules for this exception is not found in the statblocks, you need to read the unarmed strike passages of the PHB for that, the manufactured weapons part and the natural weapon part (MM iirc) to know this. That's the problem with unarmed strike rules are all over the place scattered.
But neither the Disintegrating Touch ability, nor the (Ex)-Attacks rules have any special indicators like unarmed strike does. So you have to fall back to the default options for the "Attacks" line, which is either manufactured or natural weapon. Since we can definitively exclude manufactured, this leaves us with Disintegrating Touch being a natural attack.

3. Look at the quote again. The rule that you want to use to prevent Morphic Weapons from being used multiple times (for different natural weapons, not the same) is narrowed down to spells only and doesn't talk about effects in general like the rest of the rules on the page does. The rule "Same Effect With Differing Results" says in the very first sentence:

The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once.
Is Morphic Weapons a spell? No. Which leads us to the conclusion that this rule does not apply to abilities, which have nothing to do with spells.

[Gruftzwerg]

Touch spells are also noted in the attack line if they're a relevant attack form, so that's definitely wrong.

"Natural weapon" is a clearly defined game term. It does not include (Ex) abilities that enhance natural attacks.

The Umbral Blot's Disintegrating Touch is an effect of it disintegrating everything is touches, so it only has to touch someone to deal damage.
Much in the same way a cleric using Inflict spells does. Which are also not natural weapons despite sometimes being listed in example statblocks.

Touch spells don't qualify for being manufactured nor for being natural. And show me pls a stackblock where a Touch SPELL (not touch attack) is declared as an "Attack:".

I don't see where in the Natural Weapon rules (EX) attacks are excluded? And I don't see anything in (EX)-rules that would imply that they can't be Natural Weapons.
The Disintegrating Touch ability is an (Ex)-ability. They are only classified as nonmagical abilities. I don't see how that would automatically disqualify as natural weapons.
Fun Fact: While the name Disintegrating Touch implies otherwise, it is not declared as a touch attack. It's a normal attack

Did I missed any rule?

[Wildstag]

Disintegrating Touch is an attack that is a contact effect, but could also affect armor first, so it makes sense that the armor parts of the attack roll calculation would be part of the attack.

On that note though, it doesn't look like the attack is sold separately from the rest of the on-contact effects of the ability, so you'd absolutely need a fly speed or else you'd start disintegrating portions of the ground until you remove the weapon from your body.

Additionally, would your reading of the natural weapon rules make the Lantern Archon's Light Ray ability a valid natural weapon for a Warshaper to adapt?

[sleepyphoenixx]

Touch spells don't qualify for being manufactured nor for being natural. And show me pls a stackblock where a Touch SPELL (not touch attack) is declared as an "Attack:".
I don't have a comprehensive list but i know it's done in Expedition to Castle Ravenloft (the tainted nymph lists Scorching Ray iirc) and Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave (pretty much everything with cleric levels, really).
Also both Beholders and Retrievers list their Eye Rays in the "Attack" column. Unless you're arguing those are natural weapons too?


I don't see where in the Natural Weapon rules (EX) attacks are excluded? And I don't see anything in (EX)-rules that would imply that they can't be Natural Weapons.
The Disintegrating Touch ability is an (Ex)-ability. They are only classified as nonmagical abilities. I don't see how that would automatically disqualify as natural weapons.
Fun Fact: While the name Disintegrating Touch implies otherwise, it is not declared as a touch attack. It's a normal attack

Did I missed any rule?
Natural weapons are physical. Iirc the exact wording is "physically part of the creature". Claws, horns, teeth, tentacles, those are natural weapons.
The ability to disintegrate everything you touch is not, it's an ability and clearly listed as such. It's not a natural attack in the same way a Shadows str-draining touch is not a natural weapon but a feature of its Strength Damage (Su) ability.

And the name of the attack is literally "Disintegrating Touch". If that's not clear enough for you Shadows don't have touch attacks either because theirs is simply listed as "Incorporeal Touch".



Disintegrating Touch is an attack that is a contact effect, but could also affect armor first, so it makes sense that the armor parts of the attack roll calculation would be part of the attack.

On that note though, it doesn't look like the attack is sold separately from the rest of the on-contact effects of the ability, so you'd absolutely need a fly speed or else you'd start disintegrating portions of the ground until you remove the weapon from your body.

Additionally, would your reading of the natural weapon rules make the Lantern Archon's Light Ray ability a valid natural weapon for a Warshaper to adapt?

That's not how armor works in D&D. Armor AC is an abstraction for your armor taking or deflecting blows that hit you.
D&D 3.5 does not differentiate between touching your armor or your bare skin, which is both why your armor doesn't need to constantly be repaired and why armor AC doesn't apply to touch attacks.
It's also why you can heal someone in full plate as easily as someone naked instead of having to find a bare patch of skin to touch first.

[Gruftzwerg]

Additionally, would your reading of the natural weapon rules make the Lantern Archon's Light Ray ability a valid natural weapon for a Warshaper to adapt?
yes since it is listed as attack in the statsblock. (also mentioned in the 101 NW thread)


Also both Beholders and Retrievers list their Eye Rays in the "Attack" column. Unless you're arguing those are natural weapons too?
Sure, Eye Rays count as natural weapon according to the statsblock (and the 101 NW thread) and the rules associated with the "Attack:" line.

I'll again link to the old 101 natural weapons thread (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?286497-101-Natural-Weapons). As you can see, I'm not the sole person that sees all these things as "natural weapons". Just read the thread and see how crazy warshaper's Morphic Weapons ability really is. It's gamebreaking for a single lvl dip.

! Again, I do not recommend to blow up your table with this. I assume that everybody is sane enough to not pull out these kind of thing in actual play. Players & DM who want to use warshapers should come to an gentlemen s agreement to use it on a sane lvl !

edit:
Natural weapons are physical. Iirc the exact wording is "physically part of the creature".
Imho physical is not exclusive to physical solid matter here. Energy/Plasma/Magic/Liquids/Gases/Ectoplasma are all physical things. A ghost is physically there while not having any physically solid matter. A ghost can have natural attacks, not being able to perform "physical contact" unless it manifests doesn't stop it from having them. Do you see now why a narrowed interpretation of physically can't be correct here?