Korvosa's imp problem

[Fyxur]

SO Korvosa apparently has level 7 mages that graduate from the Acadamae with the improved familiar feat that can't control their Imps. They get loose and run amock in the city. I need help conceptualizing this. There's no failure rate for binding a familiar the regular way. Other than planar binding an imp to a lesser mage, but then that wouldn't be a familiar. I'm having a hard time running this through my head any advice? Its interestingly thematic but what rules supports this?

[Telonius]

That almost sounds like the Ravenloft familiar variant. Long story short, Ravenloft familiars are sneaky and nasty. They're loyal to their masters, but will hatch their own plans independent of them.

[GrayDeath]

I trhink they played Neverwinter Nights 2, found the amok running imps funny, an decided to include them, versimilitude or rules be damned.

[stack]

It is the kind of thing that exists for setting flavor, not player-facing mechanics. In a school that favors conjuration, is it surprising that there would be a number of "lab accidents" resulting in free imps? How aware of game mechanics are characters in-world? How tied are NPCs to PC mechanics? Maybe an uncontrolled imp is the result of someone trying to summon an imp familiar without being strong enough (caster level 7) to control it; not something that fits well with player mechanics.

[liquidformat]

There are no existing mechanics for this but it is relatively straight forward to make one, just turn it into a caster level check and adjust the DC based on how hard you want it to be to successfully bind the familiar after you summon it. You are just splitting up the summoning and binding of a familiar into two parts, you could look at the rules for planar binding for inspiration.

[icefractal]

For things like this, I sometimes assume that the normal requirements for things are the requirements for "a version that works cleanly and is fully under your control", and that people can qualify earlier or with worse stats by taking a flawed version.

So for example, a cultist leader could be casting "Crappy Gate" at like 13th level. It requires a pact with a powerful fiend, only goes where that fiend wants it to, takes an hour to cast, requires concentration, and makes your eyes bleed. And if the PCs capture that cultist and want to learn said spell, they can go ahead and do so, but I doubt they will.

This logic would also avoid the need for 7th level "students", which seems a bit off to me. Maybe the equivalent of graduate students who keep taking new majors, but by 7th level some mages are already sinister grand viziers, elite spies, well-known sages, or warlords on the path to becoming a lich king.

[GrayDeath]

For things like this, I sometimes assume that the normal requirements for things are the requirements for "a version that works cleanly and is fully under your control", and that people can qualify earlier or with worse stats by taking a flawed version.

So for example, a cultist leader could be casting "Crappy Gate" at like 13th level. It requires a pact with a powerful fiend, only goes where that fiend wants it to, takes an hour to cast, requires concentration, and makes your eyes bleed. And if the PCs capture that cultist and want to learn said spell, they can go ahead and do so, but I doubt they will.

This logic would also avoid the need for 7th level "students", which seems a bit off to me. Maybe the equivalent of graduate students who keep taking new majors, but by 7th level some mages are already sinister grand viziers, elite spies, well-known sages, or warlords on the path to becoming a lich king.

Now ins elf built settings, thats mostly what I do.

If one is playing "Pathfinder, in "Setting X" as advertized" though, that includes the Rules.
^^

[icefractal]

I wouldn't expect or care about "no homebrew content" just because the GM is running the Golarion setting.
However, if you want a "by the rules" explanation, even a 1st level Wizard can use a Lesser Planar Binding scroll on a lucky roll, and then refer to the bound Imp as their "familiar".

[Thurbane]

I was going to suggest the Blighter's Unbond ability, but that wouldn't work on Outsiders.

The Imps aren't immune to mind effects, so maybe if they were targeted with a spell like Insanity?

[rel]

Isn't this also the city where they bring in pseudodragons to control the imp population? The poison immune, DR possessing imp population.

[Fyxur]

yeah REL, the pseudo dragons evolved into "House Drake" which gives them silvered natural weapons, improved will saves and on first save of the day a mental backlash effect, and a silver mist breath weapon that confuses...

Thanks for the assist its as I thought.

Now the question, is what if my pc's want to go to the Acadamae? Should I say no?

[noob]

yeah REL, the pseudo dragons evolved into "House Drake" which gives them silvered natural weapons, improved will saves and on first save of the day a mental backlash effect, and a silver mist breath weapon that confuses...

Thanks for the assist its as I thought.

Now the question, is what if my pc's want to go to the Acadamae? Should I say no?

I very much want an house drake in dnd now that I know it exists in dnd.

[Crake]

SO Korvosa apparently has level 7 mages that graduate from the Acadamae

I think this is where you're getting the wrong impression. Look through the crimson throne player's guide, and you'll see a new feat that requires you be level 1. The feat is called "Acadamae Graduate". It's level 1 mages that summon imps, but they aren't required to bind the imps.

[noob]

I think this is where you're getting the wrong impression. Look through the crimson throne player's guide, and you'll see a new feat that requires you be level 1. The feat is called "Acadamae Graduate". It's level 1 mages that summon imps, but they aren't required to bind the imps.

So for summoning imps how do they do?
Use expensive scrolls written by a higher level caster?

[Crake]

So for summoning imps how do they do?
Use expensive scrolls written by a higher level caster?

I assume it's just some custom ritual involving some expensive material components or something? Doesn't say exactly, but it's clearly not level 7 mages summoning a familiar, it's level 1 mages summoning an uncontrolled demon.

[rel]

yeah REL, the pseudo dragons evolved into "House Drake" which gives them silvered natural weapons, improved will saves and on first save of the day a mental backlash effect, and a silver mist breath weapon that confuses...

Thanks for the assist its as I thought.

Now the question, is what if my pc's want to go to the Acadamae? Should I say no?

Good fix by Paizo. It was just plain pseudo dragons when we played crimson throne which led to some questions...

[noob]

Good fix by Paizo. It was just plain pseudo dragons when we played crimson throne which led to some questions...

The easy answer was that the imps tricked whoever was in charge of choosing a response to the imps.

[Efrate]

Paizo thought huh neat and did it. That's the reason. The house drake thing is a nice living ecosystem kind of thing but doesn't help much.

There is a massive temple to asmodaeus and the hellknights would wreck anything causing that much chaos, let alone the academy is so locked down you cannot access it during the entire adventure iirc and nothing comes in and out.

The only way it makes sense is if the head of the academy is all hurr durr imp go brrr and spending a ton of time binding and releasing them. Anything else and the person would be found and stopped. Otherwise a lot of 7th level plus wizards binding imps as Familiars then dying because the academy is super rough and the familiars get free, and all the other students and teachers are not my problem get out types. Even then the numbers are obscene, and you would thing being devils they would go to the church of daddy devil asmodaeus and get missions. Formenting chaos doesn't seem to be in line with a LE chruch.

Also the number is absurd, imps as far as well can tell do not reproduce naturally among themselves so with them being CR 2 pests everyone should be corrupted or dead in all Korvosa, most npcs fall to that.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Paizo thought huh neat and did it. That's the reason. The house drake thing is a nice living ecosystem kind of thing but doesn't help much.

There is a massive temple to asmodaeus and the hellknights would wreck anything causing that much chaos, let alone the academy is so locked down you cannot access it during the entire adventure iirc and nothing comes in and out.

The only way it makes sense is if the head of the academy is all hurr durr imp go brrr and spending a ton of time binding and releasing them. Anything else and the person would be found and stopped. Otherwise a lot of 7th level plus wizards binding imps as Familiars then dying because the academy is super rough and the familiars get free, and all the other students and teachers are not my problem get out types. Even then the numbers are obscene, and you would thing being devils they would go to the church of daddy devil asmodaeus and get missions. Formenting chaos doesn't seem to be in line with a LE chruch.

Also the number is absurd, imps as far as well can tell do not reproduce naturally among themselves so with them being CR 2 pests everyone should be corrupted or dead in all Korvosa, most npcs fall to that.

The head of the Acadamae is a Nascent Demon Lord. So ya, imp go brrr wouldn't be that out of the question. Or is he a Devil? I honestly forget which.