Rune-Take The Many

[JNAProductions]

For the manieth time, I am contemplating an original system involving golems and runes that empower them.

The general idea is that each player controls a Golem (and possibly sub-Golems, sorta like detachable drones, but that's something I'm not overly worried about at the moment) in a world filled with them. A magitech world, where arcane sciences have made many of the modern amenities we appreciate in modern life available, and Rune-empowered Golems do a lot of the work. The players could be battle Golems, fighting in wars; they could be espionage Golems, designed to infiltrate and gather secrets; they could be advanced prototype Golem experiments; but the common trend is that they have acquired their own life. They've been advanced too far, too fast, and can think for themselves, instead of receiving orders.

The issue is, while I've got (what I think is) a cool idea, I don't really know how to turn that idea into a game. I'd like for there to be lots of customization, in Golem chassis types and Runes and all that, but I'm at a loss as to where the heck to start. Any help? :)


Heavily WIP, but here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B5Tf0WePMhlvgZ6wiqce6bl_p3qB9HD5wt0monHv6JY/edit?usp=sharing) it is.

[Old Harry MTX]

If you want, take a look to my entry in the current Base Class Contest (Based in Science) (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?620836-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XIII-Based-in-Science). ^^

[JNAProductions]

If you want, take a look to my entry in the current Base Class Contest (Based in Science) (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?620836-D-amp-D-5e-Base-Class-Contest-XIII-Based-in-Science). ^^

Tis appreciated, but I'm trying to create an original system. I do know 5E pretty well, so that may be a base, but may not be.

Thank you, though! :)

[Old Harry MTX]

Tis appreciated, but I'm trying to create an original system. I do know 5E pretty well, so that may be a base, but may not be.

Thank you, though! :)

Of course! But you know, the Pilot is so relevant to this topic that I couldn't not post it. Anyway let me understand, do you want the characters piloting these golems or using them as stands/companions?

[Yakk]

Golems and Robots are sufficiently similar you should read some good Robot SF, like Saturn's Children by Charles Stross.

It posits a world where humanity died out accidentally while the robots basically didn't notice; that happens 100s of years before the series happens, and by the time the Robots realized what had happened they'd also boiled Earth's biosphere. So they don't even have any close genetic relatives of humans. (there are robots working on the problem, but that isn't the focus of the series).

The robots, which are AIs based off of copies of human brain architecture (nobody ever figured out a better way), have constraints on their behavior. Their legal system is based off of corporate "persons" owning the bodies, and the robot having effective control over the actions of that corporate "person" (this is, however, quite fragile compared to anything like "human rights"), but not legal ownership over the corporation that owns them (as robots are not persons, they cannot own anything).

(The idea is you start with a bunch of copies of human brains. Then you copy them, engage in huge (horrible to think about) selection pressures and conditioning on them, test the results, and find the minds that are obsessively obedient to certain sets of rules (like, following the law, obeying people, whatever). If you start with 1 million minds and 10 end up being obsessive about following laws, you throw out the 999,990 minds that aren't. Then you take the brain-copies that pass such tests, and you copy them into millions of robots. You include QA loops after the fact, purging aberrant brains and finding heuristics to detect aberration.)

In a golem world, the idea that the golem minds are going to have compulsions.

[JNAProductions]

Of course! But you know, the Pilot is so relevant to this topic that I couldn't not post it. Anyway let me understand, do you want the characters piloting these golems or using them as stands/companions?

The players ARE the Golems. Your PC is a Golem.

[ARTHAN]

For the manieth time, I am contemplating an original system involving golems and runes that empower them.

The general idea is that each player controls a Golem (and possibly sub-Golems, sorta like detachable drones, but that's something I'm not overly worried about at the moment) in a world filled with them. A magitech world, where arcane sciences have made many of the modern amenities we appreciate in modern life available, and Rune-empowered Golems do a lot of the work. The players could be battle Golems, fighting in wars; they could be espionage Golems, designed to infiltrate and gather secrets; they could be advanced prototype Golem experiments; but the common trend is that they have acquired their own life. They've been advanced too far, too fast, and can think for themselves, instead of receiving orders.

The issue is, while I've got (what I think is) a cool idea, I don't really know how to turn that idea into a game. I'd like for there to be lots of customization, in Golem chassis types and Runes and all that, but I'm at a loss as to where the heck to start. Any help? :)

Suggested dice system: d6 (we will just use regular six-sided dice)

How to create your character:
- Choose head.
- Choose neck.
- Choose torso.
- Choose right arm.
- Choose left arm.
- Choose back.
- Choose right hand.
- Choose left hand.
- Choose waist.
- Choose right leg.
- Choose left leg.
- Choose right foot.
- Choose left foot.

Your character will be the sum of each body part you choose. If you choose body parts that are weapons, you will be a Battle Golem. If you choose body parts that are gadgets, you will be an Espionage Golem. If you choose random body parts and see how that goes, you will be a Prototype Golem. And so on...

If you like my idea I will expand it more.

[JNAProductions]

Suggested dice system: d6 (we will just use regular six-sided dice)

How to create your character:
- Choose head.
- Choose neck.
- Choose torso.
- Choose right arm.
- Choose left arm.
- Choose back.
- Choose right hand.
- Choose left hand.
- Choose waist.
- Choose right leg.
- Choose left leg.
- Choose right foot.
- Choose left foot.

Your character will be the sum of each body part you choose. If you choose body parts that are weapons, you will be a Battle Golem. If you choose body parts that are gadgets, you will be an Espionage Golem. If you choose random body parts and see how that goes, you will be a Prototype Golem. And so on...

If you like my idea I will expand it more.

Erm... It feels a little too minute for what I was planning.

While I do want customization to be allowed and a big feature, I don't think I really need to differentiate between left foot and right foot.

[ARTHAN]

Erm... It feels a little too minute for what I was planning.

While I do want customization to be allowed and a big feature, I don't think I really need to differentiate between left foot and right foot.

Nice! That makes the total of the different body parts to be 12 and that helps with what I have in mind about combat.


BODY PARTS

- Choose head.
- Choose neck.

- Choose torso.
- Choose back.

- Choose right arm.
- Choose left arm.

- Choose right hand.
- Choose left hand.

- Choose right leg.
- Choose left leg.

- Choose waist.
- Choose feet.


Now about combat...
We will have normal attack and precise attack. Normal attack will attack randomly a body part by rolling a d6 three times; the 1st one is in order to see if you completely miss by rolling 1 in the d6. The 2nd one is to see the body part that is attacked:

d6 result - body part that is attacked
1 - Head or Neck
2 - Torso or Back
3 - Right Arm or Left Arm
4 - Right Hand or Left Hand
5 - Right Leg or Left Leg
6 - Waist or Feet

Finally, you roll d6 for a 3rd time to determine if you hit the first body part (e.g. Head instead of Neck) by rolling 1/2/3 or the second body part (e.g. Back instead of Torso) by rolling 4/5/6.

Each body part will have its own hp and the damage will be a fixed number plus 1d6.

Alternatively: We can have rolling 2d6 instead of rolling 1d6 two times.

d6 result - body part that is attacked
2 - Head
3 - Neck
4 - Torso or Back
5 - Right Arm
6 - Left Arm
7 - Right Hand
8 - Left Hand
9 - Right Leg
10 - Left Leg
11 - Waist
12 - Feet

(if you attack from the front you attack the Torso but if you flank the enemy or attack from behind you attack the Back)

Precise attack will be like Normal attack but you choose which body part to attack and you have to roll a d6 once in order to see if you hit, but you hit only with a 6. However, if you hit, you hit the body part you have chosen and you deal double the normal damage.



If you like what I am writing I will keep going, if not (and that is okay too) I will stop. :)

[JNAProductions]

I do appreciate your assistance, Arthan, but I don't think it meshes with my concept.

Thank you, but no more.

If you want to take inspiration from what you and I wrote and make your own system, though, I'll happily offer critique there!

[brian 333]

An idea about the runes:

The rune used to channel and focus the golem's power supply also defines the golem's role. (for D&D style classes.)

Cleric/Technologist= repairs and reinforces golems. At high levels able to repair damaged or destroyed power supplies. At epic levels able to construct new power supplies.

Druid/Coordinator= controls subordinate units and can perform low level repairs and construction. Can supply power and programming to specially constructed non-sentient units. Such units must periodically recharge from the coordinator's power supply.

Fighter/Warmech= rugged design with programming and accessories designed for combat. Smaller versions pilot combat vehicles while larger varients can compete with them.

Wizard/Programmer= manipulates AI and creates devices which manipulate and control fundamental forces.

Warlock/Technomancer= this character is dependent on a mainframe AI to store and process its programs and to control its devices.

Use, modify, or discard as desired.

[Tvtyrant]

For the manieth time, I am contemplating an original system involving golems and runes that empower them.

The general idea is that each player controls a Golem (and possibly sub-Golems, sorta like detachable drones, but that's something I'm not overly worried about at the moment) in a world filled with them. A magitech world, where arcane sciences have made many of the modern amenities we appreciate in modern life available, and Rune-empowered Golems do a lot of the work. The players could be battle Golems, fighting in wars; they could be espionage Golems, designed to infiltrate and gather secrets; they could be advanced prototype Golem experiments; but the common trend is that they have acquired their own life. They've been advanced too far, too fast, and can think for themselves, instead of receiving orders.

The issue is, while I've got (what I think is) a cool idea, I don't really know how to turn that idea into a game. I'd like for there to be lots of customization, in Golem chassis types and Runes and all that, but I'm at a loss as to where the heck to start. Any help? :)

Big question is: If the golems are going rogue and the players are droning through golems, are the player's golems at threat of going rogue? Do people live through their golems or do they usually just use them for labor? How humanish are golems vs giant robotish?

[JNAProductions]

Big question is: If the golems are going rogue and the players are droning through golems, are the player's golems at threat of going rogue? Do people live through their golems or do they usually just use them for labor? How humanish are golems vs giant robotish?

The players play as the golems. They are the ones who have gained sentience, and are potentially going rogue. They are NOT playing as people controlling golems, they are the golems themselves.

And it'd depend. A labor golem or a military one is likely to have some humanoid parts, but is clearly a golem. A butler golem would generally be a lot more aesthetic, looking much more human than the others. In general, though, I'd say that golems would be recognizably golems no matter how sleek the chassis.

[Eurus]

Well... if you want honest advice, I'd say you should start with what you want the game to look like, on a broad level. Here's a big one: How mechanically complex do you want the game to be? And how much of this complexity should be focused on combat rules, as opposed to non-combat scenarios? (D&D 5e, for example, keeps its non-combat stuff pretty simple and streamlined compared to its combat rules. D&D 3.5 still has a lot more of its word count generally go to combat-related stuff, but there's also a lot of feats and detailed skill rules that aren't really connected to combat, so I'd call it relatively balanced.)

EDIT: Also! I suspect there are thematic parallels between golem characters and mechs. Have you read through any tabletop RPG systems themed around mech combat? Might be some good inspiration there.

[JNAProductions]

Well... if you want honest advice, I'd say you should start with what you want the game to look like, on a broad level. Here's a big one: How mechanically complex do you want the game to be? And how much of this complexity should be focused on combat rules, as opposed to non-combat scenarios? (D&D 5e, for example, keeps its non-combat stuff pretty simple and streamlined compared to its combat rules. D&D 3.5 still has a lot more of its word count generally go to combat-related stuff, but there's also a lot of feats and detailed skill rules that aren't really connected to combat, so I'd call it relatively balanced.)

EDIT: Also! I suspect there are thematic parallels between golem characters and mechs. Have you read through any tabletop RPG systems themed around mech combat? Might be some good inspiration there.

Yeah. That's good advice.

To your edit, I've read Lancer, but that's about it.

Mechanical Complexity
Ideally I'd like a system that has complexities in character creation (as has to happen with ample customization) but is still pretty smooth to play on the table. And there should be simple characters to make as well, though most characters would require some time and effort to make.

Where Should The Complexity Be?
Thinking on some generic-ish systems, I might want to base this on Cortex+. That has the same types of rolls for combat and non-combat, so in theory any complexity for one would apply to the other.

[aimlessPolymath]

Assorted thoughts, with no real ordering:

The big benefit and cost to mecha- or robots-as-characters is that they have interchangeable parts, such that without other attributes to define them, a significant amount of their 'character build' is equipment. That might or might not apply to golems, which are usually one contiguous creation.

Ideas for stats:
Programs: Robotic skills- hacking, planning, stunts pushing the limits of physical possibility. Matrix dodges.
Humanity: Social skill to understand and interact with people.
Systems/Arcana: Durability, pure power; used for dispelling and 'raw magic'.

I'd be interested in using looking at some variant of Lancer for this, and seeing what systems might translate over between SF and fantasy (I suspect quite a lot).
(edit: looks like you've read it, nvm)

Mecha and robots are mechanical, and physical 'slots' fit them easily; 'integrated magic items' might be a direct conversion for golems, though I'm not sure if you want that.

Since it's magic, 'power source' is a concept that might matter significantly, as a way to distinguish golem special abilities and maybe personality? A golem powered by Earth and one powered by Fire would be quite different.

If a theme is 'robots exploring their unique existence', one thing that might be interesting would be a focus on converting from one attribute to the other, like how Masks and Lasers and Feelings incentivizes character development midplay:
"When you identify with human 'emotions' and 'feelings', convert a point from Programs or Arcana into Humanity"
"When you act with cold rationality, convert a point from Arcana or Humanity into Programs"
"When you embrace your primordial instincts, convert a point from Programs or Humanity into Arcana"
This could happen midplay, or it could be at the end of each session to represent the direction the character developed overall.

If I had to invent some ability options on the spot (i.e. with 20 minutes to work), I'd probably do a set of 4 sets of abilities, which you combine in pairs to create an 'archetype' for each elemental source that you can choose from as you build your character. Maybe an extra ability for each source, too?

Destruction: Fire out blasts of energy, destroy things. Smashes obstacles, both physical and social. Initial abilities: AoE attack, knockback smash, noncombat destroying obstacles (but really well- disarm traps, destroy walls or jail cells, hacking systems via Brute Force attacks)
Motion: Fast movement, stealth, hindering zones. Initial abilities: Go Fast, make an area hard for enemies to move or attack in, noncombat stealth and scouting.
Social: Leadership abilities, hypnosis, minions. Initial abilities: Bardic Inspiration, daze a single target, noncombat set up contacts you can hire to do jobs.
Protection: Defense of self and others; fortification and construction. Abilities: Shield nearby allies, build a wall for cover, noncombat build buildings and repair things.
=>
Air: Motion/Destruction
Fire: Social/Destruction
Water: Motion/Protection
Earth: Destruction/Protection
Light: Social/Protection
Dark: Social/Motion
(sample layout and ability concepts, example is a concept not a suggestion)

Alternatively or additionally, a set of abilities that you have for having a particular stat at some threshold:
Programs: Action Points to do cool stunts and all those 'unfettered self-improving AI is OP' stuff. You get 3, they let you add your Programs to your stat any check, to a max of the stat you were already adding.
Humanity: Yoink the Social noncombat option and give it something else (noncombat bardic inspiration? Social might need a new name), maybe enables disguises, lets you make human friends that won't turn you in :)
Systems/Arcana: Unleash the elements within (effects TBD). Wild. Unfettered. Very anime. Maybe risk going berserk?

Part of me thinks of this system as 'robot Shadowrun/fantasy Lancer', to be built as a fairly tactical game about doing missions, the other part thinks of it as 'robots exploring what it means to be human', and I'm not sure what your intent is (or even that there's a significant barrier between the two styles).

[JNAProductions]

Aimless, thank you. (Though that "Thank you" does apply to everyone who's contributed too!) That is a very good post.

I am about to be going to my local gaming store, where I might discuss this with my friends (they're not quite as homebrew happy as I am, but they're smart cookies) and this is DEFINITELY some good stuff to think about.

[GnomeWorks]

This thread (https://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=31521) has helpful information, in terms of how to approach game design.

Fair warning: that site has quite a bit of crass language. Visit at your own peril.

[Yakk]

I sketched some D&D 5e character classes based on Rune magic and locations.

It was a school with 3 streams of student -- Mage, Knight and Ranger.

Runes where bound to locations on the body, and had an element. The location where it was bound determined what kind of thing the Rune supported, the Element was how it did it.

You could bind to each element at most once.

Each rune class gained binding locations as it gained levels. Each rune class shared 1 rune binding location with each other rune class.

So Mages shared 1 binding location with Rangers, and one with Knights.

Their 3rd binding location was unique to their class. The 4th binding location was gained last, and was a wildcard (from any class).

There where 6 Rune binding locations in total, and 6 Elements (I stole Dragon Prince TV show's magical elements I think, as they where slightly different than typical and I thought that was fun).

Binding+Element pairs granted a "passive" ability, plus access to a series of Talents.

Your pool of Talents known was based off of your level (I think I used half-caster progression of spell slots, but they where Talent slots, and Talents didn't get expended like spells).

So a Knight with the Earth+Castle element+binding could invest a level 3 Talent into "The Golem", which lets them turn into an Earth Elemental (like a wildshape druid) once/day.

---

IIRC, Ranger and Mage shared Familiar Binding, Ranger and Knight shared Might Binding, Knight and Wizard shared Heart. Wizard had the unique Binding of Staff, Knight Castle and Ranger had Shadow.

Ranger: Familiar, Might and Shadow
Knight: Might, Heart and Castle
Wizard: Heart, Familiar and Staff

Familiar gave you a pet/ally, Castle was about being tough, Might about using weapons/being strong, Shadow about being sneaky, Heart was mind and morale, and Staff was stuff like Fireball.

---

I might have actually had 2 bindings unique to the class, now that I think about it.

[JNAProductions]

Been talking a lot with some friends on Skype, and have the basics of something.

Heavily WIP, but here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B5Tf0WePMhlvgZ6wiqce6bl_p3qB9HD5wt0monHv6JY/edit?usp=sharing) it is.

[noob]

Wings are a chest part or a leg part?
Or should it be a lootable?
Like you can loot wings or jetpacks?

[JNAProductions]

Wings are a chest part or a leg part?

Probably a back part.

[noob]

Air on arms works on inbuilt ranged options or does it works also on non spontaneous ranged options like collapsing a building on someone?
In general runes have effects centred on the part or the golem or are the effects more broad in nature?

[JNAProductions]

Added the Google Doc link to the first post.

More critique wanted!

[noob]

I am still curious about the scope of rune arm effects.