Fiendish Vigor

[carrdrivesyou]

When is a good level to swap this out,. For reference, I am playing a silver dragonborn fighter 2/celestial bladelock 2. Will be leveling up sometime soon we think. When does this stop being useful and become more of a ribbon ability? Was thinking about swapping it for beguiling influence at warlock 3 instead, as I am the only real charisma boi on the team.

[Toadkiller]

Well - Pact of the Blade comes on at Warlock 3. I don’t think you’re a blade lock till then. :)

To answer the question- when you stop wanting an extra 8 hp. I am planning to let it go around level 5 as there are other things I want at Warlock 5. But extra hp is never a wrong choice I don’t think.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If swapping it for Improved Pact Weapon at Warlock 3 would be more beneficial for you, then go that route. Same goes for the other pact-specific invocations that can be taken at 3rd. Otherwise I'd consider it no longer useful when opponents are consistently doing more than 8 damage per hit.

[Kane0]

I usually swap it out by the time Tier 2 comes around, about levels 4-6

[cutlery]

Around the point when the minimum roll is as much as two points of con (so, level 5).

Much sooner if I have another source of temp hp (Fiend, Undead, someone in the party has Inspiring Leader).

I'ld probably do it even sooner than that if I had celestial healing.

[Tanarii]

If you have four combat encounters per day, at level 5 for the typical lock it's equal to 25% of your max hit points in a battle, and ~50% of your total hit point pool for the day. Still well worth it. Value goes down if you've got a Con of 14 instead of 12, but the latter is far more common IMX.

By level 10 it's 12-1/2 of max and 25% of your daily pool. That's still fairly significant, but it may be worth considering dropping around then,


Around the point when the minimum roll is as much as two points of con (so, level 5).
Unless you've got extremely limited time, Fiendish Vigor will always give you 8 hps. You just cast it u til it is.

I like to think of it as the warlock channeling power you sense your topped out, with variable channeling time.

[carrdrivesyou]

Well, I took average HP each level, and started with 2 fighter levels. Regular HP max is 34. so 8 thp is a pretty decent chunk. I have a +1 sword that deals cold damage instead of slashing, and counts as a spell focus (really well crafted by the artificer). So there really isn't a need for Improved Pact Weapon. The other option I was thinking of taking was beguiling influence to help with being the party face. I have a 14 CHA, and its the highest in the party. But nobody, myself included, took social skill proficiencies. I just worry that trying to become more of a party face will get me killed in a fight for not being tough enough.

So is it worth the tradeoff in your experiences??

[Dork_Forge]

Imo it's worth keeping around until Celestial 10 when you get a great temp hp ability, ultimately it comes down to if you need the invocation for something else. If you've taken Improved Pact Weapon and Thirsting Blade and then you want Eldritch Smite then go for it (Second Wind helps mitigate things for you in comparison to a straight Bladelock) but at will temp hp will never stop being a good thing as a rule of thumb. If there's nothing calling to you for that same invocation slot then I'd just let it be and enjoy soaking hits every combat with the dedicated martials.

[cutlery]

Unless you've got extremely limited time, Fiendish Vigor will always give you 8 hps. You just cast it u til it is.


Depends on the table; I play at some where casting FL until you get 8 hps is viewed in the same light as casting shillelagh every minute. They'd probably let me take the average, though (so, 7). I just roll it and save my cheesemongering for more important things.

And sometimes you need to reapply it before kicking open door #2 or when you are otherwise pressed for time.

Anyway, I'm often over 40 hp by level 5, and I don't see a non-upcast false life as worth an invocation at that point given the level 5 choices that have opened up. It's useful at levels 2-3, filler at 4, and replaceable at 5.

[Tanarii]

Depends on the table; I play at some where casting FL until you get 8 hps is viewed in the same light as casting shillelagh every minute. They'd probably let me take the average, though (so, 7). I just roll it and save my cheesemongering for more important things.
Those are considerably different. One is just a minute casting 'ritual' shortly after a fight. The other is muttering a spell for 6 seconds every minute like a crackhead.

[cutlery]

Those are considerably different.

It doesn't matter if they happen to irk a particular DM an equal amount; or if false life is a sticking point and shillelagh isn't.

Especially if fight #2 is right around the corner; players might get 1-2 rounds of prep. You can cast FL twice, but if you pass on the first roll you're stuck with the second.

If the 2-3 hit points are the difference between life and death; you're probably doing something wrong.

[Dork_Forge]

It doesn't matter if they happen to irk a particular DM an equal amount; or if false life is a sticking point and shillelagh isn't.

Especially if fight #2 is right around the corner; players might get 1-2 rounds of prep. You can cast FL twice, but if you pass on the first roll you're stuck with the second.

If the 2-3 hit points are the difference between life and death; you're probably doing something wrong.

The temporary hit points rule makes that impossible:


If you have temporary hit points and receive more of them, you decide whether to keep the ones you have or to gain the new ones.

[carrdrivesyou]

The DM is pretty lax on this actually. He just accepts that i'll cast it enough times between events that i have 8 thp when we roll initiative. We are using the GR rules, so its more one fight a day rather than a few per day. but long rests take a week. so there is that.


EDIT: But more to the point, when i hit fighter 2, warlock 3, Should I swap it out, or is it still super useful?

[Dork_Forge]

The DM is pretty lax on this actually. He just accepts that i'll cast it enough times between events that i have 8 thp when we roll initiative. We are using the GR rules, so its more one fight a day rather than a few per day. but long rests take a week. so there is that.


EDIT: But more to the point, when i hit fighter 2, warlock 3, Should I swap it out, or is it still super useful?

It's still useful, level 5 only really matters for Warlock level 5, since that's when your options open up (but also when you get a new invocation slot). Especially in Gritty Realism rules I think FV would be invaluable.

[cutlery]

The temporary hit points rule makes that impossible:

Well, that's cool at least, but I'd still minimize casting it once the side eye from the DM was given.

And, as mentioned, it doesn't take long for more important invocations to come along for a bladelock, or to have access to better sources of temp hp (fiend, undead, agathys if you happen to be at a table that allows precasting)

Some people still like it in Tier 2, and good if it works for them. I'd rather have either set of repelling/agonizing/BOAS for a tome blaster or Thirsting/Smite/IPW for a blade lock at 5th.

I'd also trade it out ASAP if a party member took Inspiring Leader.


Especially in Gritty Realism rules I think FV would be invaluable.

It does become much more useful in that situation.

[solidork]

I'd personally take a utility invocation every time, but that is shaped by my personal preferences and the game I play in.