Double Xbows and full attack

[ayvango]

RoTD web enhancement introduced double xbows. I'm not sure how it works for a full attack. Fighter reached 16th level and learned exotic weapon proficiency. The double xbow he uses is enchanted with the Quick Loading feature. How many attack could he make: 4 or 8?

Side question: should each single part of double xbow be enchanted separately?

[Gruftzwerg]

RoTD web enhancement introduced double xbows. I'm not sure how it works for a full attack. Fighter reached 16th level and learned exotic weapon proficiency. The double xbow he uses is enchanted with the Quick Loading feature. How many attack could he make: 4 or 8?

Side question: should each single part of double xbow be enchanted separately?


I guess you are talking about the double xbows from the Kobold web enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a).

The wording on them are a bit unclear due to wording, but the references help out here.

Beforehand, I would like to point out that you need to take the Exotic Weapon feat twice, once for a regular xbow, and once for the double xbow upgrade. To get around this, you can dip a single lvl of Urban Druid to be proficient with all crossbows (including the double xbows).

If you use a single xbow you get your 4 regular attacks from high BAB and can use the inbuild Rapid Shot feature (see the reference in the grey box at the end). This means a single xbow can have 5 attacks per round for a -2 penalty on all attacks.

If you stick to double hand crossbows and have access to the TWF feat line , you can use the Rapid Shot feature for each of em (if you want) for 2 extra attacks and a -6 penalty to all attacks (-2 from TWF with light weapons, and twice -2 from Rapid Shot).

If you are interested in double handcross builds, have a look at my El Mariachi build.

[ayvango]

If you stick to double hand crossbows and have access to the TWF feat line , you can use the Rapid Shot feature for each of em (if you want) for 2 extra attacks and a -6 penalty to all attacks (-2 from TWF with light weapons, and twice -2 from Rapid Shot).

I see no difference between normal xbows and double xbows from your text. Do being "double" confers any benefits on full attacks? I could see how useful would be xbows on level 1 when only single attack is available. But what about high levels?

[Gruftzwerg]

I see no difference between normal xbows and double xbows from your text. Do being "double" confers any benefits on full attacks? I could see how useful would be xbows on level 1 when only single attack is available. But what about high levels?

the extra attacks are made with your max BAB (and the penalties for Rapid Shot/TWF). While you take -2 on all attacks, your extra attacks are more likely to hit than your iterative attacks that come on -5/-10..

And the difference is just character resource management.

1. With the double xbows you can ignore the prerequisite for Rapid Shot which is Point Blank Shot

2. The single double xbow feats counts for all double xbow types. The "designer notes" box shows this by naming it "Exotic Weapon Proficiency (double crossbow)" (no differentiation between hand, light & heavy).
While you still need the regular xbow feats to use the different double xbow types, this becomes beneficial if you intend to go for more "double xbow" feats for more than one double xbow type. Now you can choose "double crossbow" as weapon category for other feats (weapon focus, specialization, ...) to cover all your double xbows with a single feat each.

[sleepyphoenixx]

The way i read it you can either make iteratives (taking the -5 on your second attack as normal) with a normal full attack, basically giving you a second shot without having to reload.
Or you can make use of the double shot feature with a full round action, getting 2 attacks at your highest AB -2, but you don't get iteratives in that case. Limited Rapid Shot if you will.

Basically the way i read it the double shot feature is only useable if you're not using a normal full attack.
If you do using a double crossbow is just a cheaper alternative to Quick Loading for the early levels. Though you don't need EWP:double crossbow for that one.

So it's helpful if you wouldn't get extra attacks from BAB or want the lesser penalty on your second shot, but for everyone who gets 3 or more attacks or wants to take Rapid Shot it's not really useful.

In short with a full attack you get the same amount of attacks as with a normal crossbow.

As for your other question it's not a double weapon despite the name.
It's one weapon so you only have to enchant it once (unless you add a crossbow bayonet or something).

[Gruftzwerg]

The way i read it you can either make iteratives (taking the -5 on your second attack as normal) with a normal full attack, basically giving you a second shot without having to reload.
Or you can make use of the double shot feature with a full round action, getting 2 attacks at your highest AB -2, but you don't get iteratives in that case. Limited Rapid Shot if you will.

Basically the way i read it the double shot feature is only useable if you're not using a normal full attack.
If you do using a double crossbow is just a cheaper alternative to Quick Loading for the early levels. Though you don't need EWP:double crossbow for that one.

So it's helpful if you wouldn't get extra attacks from BAB or want the lesser penalty on your second shot, but for everyone who gets 3 or more attacks or wants to take Rapid Shot it's not really useful.

In short with a full attack you get the same amount of attacks as with a normal crossbow.

As for your other question it's not a double weapon despite the name.
It's one weapon so you only have to enchant it once (unless you add a crossbow bayonet or something).
You only get the full benefit if you can reload as free action (Rapid Reload or what I would recommend hand crossbow focus which is Rapid Reload and Weapon Focus for hand xbows).

If you want to TWF with (double) hand crossbows, you need either shoulder-straps attached to them with Quick Draw in addition to the already mentioned feats or alternatively you can buy Gloves of Storing, which doesn't need Quick Draw but is a bit more expensive than shoulder-straps.