Optimizing maneuvers

[Particle_Man]

I am curious as to what people would do to optimize maneuvers that are usually thought to be sub-optimal.

Using wotc hardcovers of 3.5, how would you optimize disarming, bull rushing, sundering, overrunning and/or shield bashing?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I am curious as to what people would do to optimize maneuvers that are usually thought to be sub-optimal.

Using wotc hardcovers of 3.5, how would you optimize disarming, bull rushing, sundering, overrunning and/or shield bashing?Size buffs, reach, and high Strength, mainly. You don't need a feat to take away AoOs when your enemies can't reach you to attack you anyway. Psychic warriors with expansion are fantastic for this, because (unlike enlarge person) they get multiple size increases through augmentation. AND it segues very well into metamorphosis.

[Maat Mons]

For bull rushing I like Knockback (RoS p142) to add a free bull rush to all your attacks plus Rampaging Bull Rush (RoS p143) to render anyone you bull rush prone.

Since Knockback removes the need to move with your opponent, you can leave them in the position of needing to spend a move action to stand up, and then spend another move action to get back in range for a melee attack. That's all their actions for that turn, an then you do the same thing again next turn.

It combines well with Bloodstorm Blade (ToB p100) so you can do all this at a distance, and not impede your own attack routine by sending people out of reach. Dungeoncrasher (DS p10) is another good pairing.



For shield bashes, you could maybe try something with Shield Slam (CW p105).

[PoeticallyPsyco]

For disarming, I came up with a pretty funny build I sadly couldn't get together in time for the latest Iron Chef. It does hinge on a 3.0 feat, though: Snatch Weapon, which lets you immediately attack with a weapon you disarm, as long as you have a hand free to grab it. This is best combined with the Bloodstorm Blade prestige class, which lets your thrown weapon attacks count as melee for disarming (among other things). Hurl your Ranseur or Heavy Flail at your opponent and knock their weapon out of their hands, at which point it bounces over to you and you get a free attack with it; rinse and repeat on the next opponent until you miss (consider taking Quick Draw so you can keep going with your iteratives on a miss) or all your enemies are disarmed.

For grappling, you ideally want to get to the point where you can use the "only holding them with one limb" rules. -20 penalty without feats, but you don't count as grappled yourself. An interesting side affect of this is that your grappled opponent is flatfooted versus all of your attacks; SA Fighter is thus a very attractive class for this. That works best in E6, though; once you get into the higher levels, size changing magic becomes a necessity to keep up with ever-larger monsters, so Psychic Warrior starts looking much better (though the medium BAB will hurt a bit). Either way, Scorpion's Grasp is a fun little feat that lets you use grappling to move around the battlefield and arguably gives you an extra attack each round while grappling. Octopus Man, Grappling Halfling For Justice! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24120676&postcount=33) and The Kraken, Grappling Halfling For Eeeeviiill! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=24120686&postcount=36) are two different E6 grappling builds, though using Halflings like I did is rules-sketchy at best (funny, though). There's also a grappling handbook (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=585.0) on the min-max forums. For practical optimization, Totemist and/or Psychic Warrior are your best bets for long-term grappling success, especially since both are very good at adapting if their grappling is shut down.

I also did a build (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=23999697&postcount=95) that uses a bull-rush trick for Villainous Competition. Unfortunately, it requires an absurd number of feats to get off the ground: Shock Trooper, Great Throw, Knockdown, and Knock-Back, plus all of their prerequisite feats. If you do get them all, though, you can trap opponents in a cycle of being tripped, bull-rushed, and flung around inside your reach until they die or you get bored and end your turn... as long as they're actually vulnerable to being tripped, which by the time you actually get all those feats, a lot of your opponents probably won't be.

[Gruftzwerg]

I had once played with the Driving Attack feat and one of the builds was a warforged who relied on his shield as weapon.
It's the 2nd build in the link, the Whirl-O-Matic (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?517187).

Warforged Fighter 14 / Barbarian 1 / Warforged Juggernaut 5

Makes use of Shield Bash, Bullrush, Charge, all 3 Bloodspicked Charger tactical feat maneuvers, Diving Attack and a few more things.

The Warforged version of "Charging Shild Bash: Greater Powerful Pounce + PA + Spiked Avalanche + Whirlwind + Driving Attack Greater Powerful Superior Expert Bull Rush" (*gasps for air*)... declaring your attack correct can be difficult sometimes...^^

Charge into the enemies, Whirl around and send all your enemies literary flying across the place like in a cartoon.