Do summoned creatures count for XP or challenge of an encounter?

[Mr Adventurer]

I asked this in the Simple RAW thread but looking around elsewhere, maybe it's not a simple question.

If I have a creature with the innate ability to summon another creature, does that summoned creature add its XP to the encounter value for the purposes of determining challenge?

And do the characters earn the XP for defeating that summoned creature? Or is it all part of the summoning creature's Challenge?

For example, Aarakocra in the MM: five of them working together can summon an air elemental.

[Zhorn]

If the creature is in the encounter, it has raised the difficulty of the encounter. How it got there should be of little difference.

[Silly Name]

The ability to summon other creatures SHOULD be calculated into the monster's CR. Pelor knows if it is.

I would award XP for defeating the summoned creature if its presence in the encounter sensibly makes it harder - a CR 12 summoning a couple CR 3 is probably trying to disperse focus and disrupt strategy, but the CR 2 aren't really much of a danger.

A CR 8 creature summoning a CR 6 creature, however, would surely make the encounter harder.

[MoiMagnus]

About the CR:

If the summoning takes place during the encounter, the answer is probably "no".

The enemy took actions from its turn to summon one of multiple creatures instead of attacking, meaning that the CR is not increased: this was part of the CR of the creature to be able to summon instead of attacking.

If the summoning takes place before the encounter, the CR of the encounter definitely increases (as always, if the enemy prepare before the fight, the fight will be harder, which translate into an increase in CR).

About the XP:

I don't think there is a RAW answer on that. The DMG is quite clear on the fact that circumstantial increases in difficulty (surprise, being outnumbered, etc) do not affect the XP earned by the PCs, but as far as I know it doesn't clarify what happen in this exact case.

I would have said that there is no extra XP since the summoned creature disappear when it's summoner dies, but that's not always the case. Conjured elementals, for example, become independent if you lose concentration...

We're really in a situation where the RAW answer is "ask your DM". And if you're a DM, the answer is "take what is consistent with your other arbitrages on when to give XP to the players or not."

[Unoriginal]

I asked this in the Simple RAW thread but looking around elsewhere, maybe it's not a simple question.

If I have a creature with the innate ability to summon another creature, does that summoned creature add its XP to the encounter value for the purposes of determining challenge?

And do the characters earn the XP for defeating that summoned creature? Or is it all part of the summoning creature's Challenge?

For example, Aarakocra in the MM: five of them working together can summon an air elemental.

If the summoned creature disappear when the summoner is killed (or a few turns afterward), I don't count it as part of the XPs or the encounter's Challenge Rating.

If the summoned creatures appears and stays independently, it's not different from, say, one of the enemies opening a door to get reinforcement, and so it should be taken into account.

[Daracaex]

If enemies' summoned creatures counted for xp, player's summoned creatures should receive a share of the xp. Sounds like nonsense to me. If an enemy caster has a summon spell, that's their ability, not a separate creature. Unless you're having them summon something more significant than normal summon spells shouldn't have access to.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Technically, it doesn't change the CR of the summoner directly. Should it? Dunno. Summoning in combat is almost always a bad idea for monsters due to action economy issues. As far as I can tell, it doesn't officially affect xp either.

I would play it differently if they narratively (but not mechanically) had summoned creatures in advance that wouldn't go away when the summoner died. Then those are part of the fight as normal. The caster isn't concentrating, they're just extra enemies.

But then I don't do XP, so...

[Unoriginal]

Technically, it doesn't change the CR of the summoner directly. Should it? Dunno. Summoning in combat is almost always a bad idea for monsters due to action economy issues.

I mean it's a gamble, but a Barbed Devil summoning another Barbed Devil is def. not a bad idea from an actione economy standpoint.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Generally the answer is no.
In your specific example however, when five Aarakocra are qualitatively different from four, that should perhaps be taken into account. That's not unique to summoning though.

[nickl_2000]

My answer is no, whether they are summoned before the battle or during it. If they are summoned before the battle, it is the result of the PCs being loud, careless, or good planning on the part of the monster and no different than setting a trap or modifying the battlefield.

As for during the battle, the strategy is the same if the monster summons or lobs a fireball. Kill the caster fast and hard before it has a chance to throw more spells at you.

[JNAProductions]

My answer is no, whether they are summoned before the battle or during it. If they are summoned before the battle, it is the result of the PCs being loud, careless, or good planning on the part of the monster and no different than setting a trap or modifying the battlefield.

As for during the battle, the strategy is the same if the monster summons or lobs a fireball. Kill the caster fast and hard before it has a chance to throw more spells at you.

Does that still apply if the summon lasts for 24 hours, and the Summoner just does it at the beginning of every day?

[nickl_2000]

Does that still apply if the summon lasts for 24 hours, and the Summoner just does it at the beginning of every day?

I would say yes, because that summon is taking a resource away from the summoner. Either it's taking away the ability to cast a different spell or it's part of the normal stat block and was intended to happen when PCs are fighting them.

[Bundin]

I'd not add to the XP, hoping that the ability to summon was taken into account when the XP reward was calculated for the summoner. Even when a summons stays after the death of the summoner, it had a cost. Maybe not an action cost if summoned routinely at dawn, but if a statblock allows for that, it's pretty much a little group by design.

For homebrew opponents: if the summons is always present by design (= not having an in combat action cost), doesn't vanish on the death of its master and there's no risk whatsoever of the summons turning on its master, I'd award xp for it. It's effectively two separate creatures in that case.

I know, it's not very consistent, but eh, they accepted me designing the fights :P

[Gtdead]

If the summon is a result of a spell costing concentration, then I'd say it doesn't count. If not I'd count it.