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SilverClawShift
2007-11-03, 08:41 PM
So my group is gearing up for our next campaign. We get told the setting, what the world is like, the relevant facts related to the population and such. This is the getting-ready phase for the players. We come up with our characters, figure out how they work in the world, how they work together, all that good stuff.
I was browsing around, looking for something to pique my interest, and I see the Master of Masks class in Complete Scoundrel. Wear a mask, and get a small list of abilities based on that masks theme? Even going so far as to detect as a different alignment? That's got potential. So I've got my character idea, a scarred, perpetually masked tinkerer. One thing is certain, the Master of Masks class is friggin sweet.

Flavorwise.

Mechanically it seems flat flat flat flat flat. LIMP. WEAK. INEFFECTIVE. Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong, but my DM agreed with me after checking it out.
A 10 level class that gives you: 1/2 BAB, +4 spellcasting levels total (not even half, and that's IF you had a spellcasting class to give them to, which is not required), 4 skill points with an 'okay' spell list, and two good saves. All you get out of that wimpy package is the masks, which are totally rockin, but riddled with problems themselves.
First off, you just flat out don't get enough of them. You start at two, and you cap at 7. That's pretty low, considering the masks are kinda weakish, and are really all you get out of the deal. At the minimum, there should be ways to increase how many masks you can create/own at any given time. Now, it's a little understandable that your mask selection is limited, based on the plain fact that almost every mask gives you a spell or two you can use once per day... but they're not THAT good.
Then there's the fact that there are only 12 masks to pick from. It's just one prestige class in a splat book made on the tail end of 3.5, so it can't get that much attention in the book, understood. But it seems like only having 12 masks to pick from, when you get 7 total...

I dunno. The thing that strikes me, looking at the class, is the feeling that it needs "More". More options, more chances to use the options, more everything.
I'm in talks with my DM about the class, and he's pretty much in agreement with me that the class will fall a little flat in actual play. Especially in a decent sized group. But I love the concept, and the DM thinks it's pretty slick as well, so he's agreed that we can touch it up without altering the actual class much. Basically, I'm going to have chances to find/create more masks than the class inherently allows, get more powerful masks at higher levels instead of having a flat pool, possibly being allowed to use feats to increase the masks powers, number of masks I have, or get a tier of more powerful masks to pick from.

Which is all a lot of talking to get to my actual point.

Does anyone know where I can find some new masks? Someone's gotta have homebrewed up a few somewhere, the concept is flavorfull enough to have deserved some attention.
If no one has, then I'll just have to sit down with my DM, crack open some books for inspiration, and brew a couple up (or maybe brew up a few during the campaign itself, with DM oversight naturally).

So, any good leads?

(and as a note: I apologize if people think this should be in the homebrew section, but I'm not sure it should be. I'm not asking people to post homebrews, I'm just curious if people know of a place to find new masks specifically).

Hario
2007-11-03, 10:53 PM
From what I've heard and seen most only take a one level dip for say the gladiator mask (can use ALL EXOTIC WEAPONS) and either dragon or hierophant mask. 10 levels isn't really worth it up to 4 is really pretty much all you need to experience the class.

BardicDuelist
2007-11-03, 11:15 PM
I agree with Hario. It is a class that I take about 4 levels of to give my character some interesting options and flavor. Chameleon before or after this actually works well. Changeling Bard/MoM/Chameleon gives you somone who can be anyone, and has really great flavor.

Illiterate Scribe
2007-11-03, 11:26 PM
You could go for a psionic character, who crafted tattoos carved masks (there's a similarly nifty spell in PGF, create magic tattoo, which works similarly) - just say that, instead of inscribing tattoos into skin, you are etching them onto a plain white mask.

It's not what you asked for at all, I'm afraid - it's not a new source of masks - but it could be used to scribe them onto the masks, thus creating new, high level ones (and also creating 'psionic tracery' (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031225a)). A psionic artificer (there is a variant somewhere) who did this would be fairly nifty, especially with infusions - this would also fit your concept of a masked tinkerer quite well.

One other question - is this the same awesome DM from that vestige campaign?

Karma Guard
2007-11-03, 11:51 PM
The only other main Masking class I can come up with is Incarnum's Totemist, and that's, well. Incarnum. It's off being blue and cool and doing it's own thing. It really wouldn't be applicable, I think.

But there's a lot of masks in general in Incarnum; from Monster Totem things (Mask of the Gorgon, Basilisk Mask) to more general ideals (Silvertongue Mask, Winter Mask). Maybe a re-flavored Totemist would be a good idea. Instead of Incarnum, you just have some really magic masks. I dunno, I got nothin'.

Homebrewing more masks and just buffing the class itself would be the best idea, really.

Temp
2007-11-04, 12:16 AM
The Chameleon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b) class seems to do what the MoM class is supposed to. Just put the Master of Mask's fluff on the Chameleon's crunch and you should be golden.

As for new masks or fixes? I've got nuttin'.

MisterSaturnine
2007-11-04, 12:45 AM
I was interested in the class a while ago and came up with my own attempt at a fix. I made a little thread a long while back but got no responses. Here's a link--just don't post on it. Thread necromancy is looked down upon 'round these parts.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45201

Spoilered 'cause I *CAN*.

BardicDuelist
2007-11-04, 12:50 AM
I was interested in the class a while ago and came up with my own attempt at a fix. I made a little thread a long while back but got no responses. Here's a link--just don't post on it. Thread necromancy is looked down upon 'round these parts.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45201

Spoilered 'cause I *CAN*.

The problem with that is, except for a few extra casting levels, it doesn't really fix any of the problems. It is a great adaption of a 5 lv to a 10 lv PrC and for that I commend you, but it really has all of the pitfalls of the origonal.

MisterSaturnine
2007-11-04, 12:55 AM
True. It was one of my first attempts at Homebrew (and I've still never really played), though. So I get off a bit easy on that one. ;)

I think the class would definitely be improved with more homebrewed masks--a large number, maybe even 20 or so. Probably not quite 20, but still. Make it so there's a LOT of choices. And yeah, more masks to choose from. And maybe the ability to use more than one mask at a time.

Ooh! I had the image of a Master of Masks being able to use 3 masks at once--one on his face, and two others circling him like those weird stone things.

SilverClawShift
2007-11-04, 06:18 AM
One other question - is this the same awesome DM from that vestige campaign?

Yeah, he prefers being the DM to being a player, and we certainly don't object. I actually tried DMing a few times for our group when we were newish, and I did okay, but it was pretty obvious the now-perpetual DM was better at it, so we, collectively, stuck with that.


Homebrewing more masks and just buffing the class itself would be the best idea, really.

Yeah, that's what we ultimately decided to do. I'm not going to play an outright spellcaster, so the DM is letting me turn the four +1 spellcaster levels into new masks. Then we're going to let me spend feats to have more beyond the class grants. Then we'll design a bunch more masks so I have options to fill my new mask slots with.
Also probably going to make a 'second tier' of more powerful persona masks that I need to use a feat to get to. So we'll see how that plays out.

**********************************

As to everyone else, thank you for your advice, truly, I appreciate the time you took to reply and all. And don't take this the wrong way, but...
Is it just me, or does any D&D discussion turn, immediately, into "Nah, you should do this instead". I'm not trying to sound snarky, honest, it's just that my whole reason for playing the class is revolved around my characters broken psyche and the multitude of masks I wear. Why would I dip into the class for one or two masks and move on? :smalltongue:

The_Snark
2007-11-04, 06:24 AM
In this case, I think it's because there isn't really a homebrew or fix of the sort you were looking for. Which is too bad; I played in a game with a Master of Masks for a while, and while he was fun, he definitely looked a little underpowered compared with the others. Glad to see your DM is giving you some more options with that.

The whole party was a lot of fun, actually, but the power levels varied widely.

TheLogman
2007-11-04, 08:47 AM
I made some. More Masks to Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3461435#post3461435).

bugsysservant
2007-11-04, 09:15 AM
As to everyone else, thank you for your advice, truly, I appreciate the time you took to reply and all. And don't take this the wrong way, but...
Is it just me, or does any D&D discussion turn, immediately, into "Nah, you should do this instead". I'm not trying to sound snarky, honest, it's just that my whole reason for playing the class is revolved around my characters broken psyche and the multitude of masks I wear. Why would I dip into the class for one or two masks and move on? :smalltongue:

Well, the problem is that just about everyone here seems to have given up on class balance. Since some classes are vastly better than others, they think its better to change the fluff of a powerful class than to up the abilities of a weak one. Whether or not this is the best way, I don't really know, but that does seem to be general mindset around here, yes.