Prepare for the “Shroudlock”

[ThatDuckGrant]

The terms “hexlock,” “blastlock,” and “bladelock” are somewhat commonplace in these forums to refer to warlocks who specialize in dealing single-target damage using hex, Eldritch blast (EB), or a hex weapon (from hexblade). I submit to you that Tashas Cauldron of Everything just created a new class of warlock blaster that I’m going to call the “shroudlock” because it’s primary function is using the new spell “Spirit Shroud.”

Now, this build looks pretty similar to the hexlock until at least 5th level. I would argue it’s really not optimal until 9th level, but after that, Spirit Shroud allows the warlock to add 2d8 per hit with either EB or, in the case of the fiend or efreeti patron, scorching ray.

At level 11, the Shroudlock can concentrate on 5th level spirit shroud with a bonus action, and launch 3 EBs for 1d10+2d8+5 each. That’s an average of ~58 damage per action (assuming all hit). A hexblade can increase that damage by proficiency bonus in turn 2 by adding hexblades curse. Otherwise, a fiend can unleash a 5th-level scorching ray for 6(2d6+2d8), or 96 average damage if all 6 hit (obviously it’s unlikely you hit with all 6, but with advantage it’s definitely possible). The same fiend pact warlock at level 14 can add in ~55 psychic damage with its capstone ability.

By the time the Warlock gets its 4th spell slot, the shroudlock can essentially use spirit shroud for every encounter and still have 1-2 spell slots available for casting scorching ray. You could also add crown of stars for 7 rounds of a BA attack dealing 4d12+2d8.

Now, this may sound like a rather crazy power increase for the Warlock, but like I stated at the beginning of the post it really doesn’t become economical until 9th level, and the Nova damage not until about 11th level. Many campaigns never reach that point, and those that do could use a fun, somewhat-linear upgrade to the Hex spell.

In fact, this post is mostly about the Warlock’s ability to use Spirit Shroud, but the Wizard can probably abuse it even more so. The Wizard could use a 7th or even 9th level slot to cast Spirit Shroud, then an 8th level slot to unleash 9 scorching rays for 9(2d6+3d8) or a maximum average damage of ~188.

The spell is also very useful for Gishes who attack with a weapon. It’s availability to the cleric provides a definite power increase for Monk-Cleric and Ranger-Cleric multiclasses. The spell expands options pretty well in my opinion, and isn’t so obviously overpowered that I believe it will be game-breaking.

I’m interested to hear any and all thoughts about the build or the spell!

[Dork_Forge]

It works best on a Bladelock, trying to exploit Eldritch Blast with it will basically make Crossbow Expert mandatory to avoid the 5ft disadvantage. It's a nice spell for sure, off the top of my head a Celestial Bladelock would be able to exploit it pretty well (grabbing the bonus damage from their 6th level ability for a little bump) and TWFing to proc it as much as possible.

[Gtdead]

It has a lot of potential. But I have to say that it's not all rainbows and butterflies.
For one, it's melee/reach range which will probably require CE to function properly, and needs high defenses. Lacking defensive advantage from things like darkness+DS or shadow of moil can backfire.

There's also the matter of bonus action clog with hexblade's curse.

All in all, it a high risk/high reward maneuver which is good because we seriously don't have a lot of them in this game.

[ThatDuckGrant]

It works best on a Bladelock, trying to exploit Eldritch Blast with it will basically make Crossbow Expert mandatory to avoid the 5ft disadvantage. It's a nice spell for sure, off the top of my head a Celestial Bladelock would be able to exploit it pretty well (grabbing the bonus damage from their 6th level ability for a little bump) and TWFing to proc it as much as possible.

I think Crossbow expert, or just giving up an opportunity attack is well worth it to get the scalability of EB.

Unfortunately, the bonus damage from the Celestial Warlock’s level 6 ability only allows the bonus damage to be added to “one damage roll against one of the spell’s targets” so you’d only get +5 damage over the course of the entire minute of the spell, no matter how many attacks you make.

[cutlery]

I’m not worried about it breaking balance too much; blastlocks will need to be in range, blade locks will have tocontend with concentration.

It will let them get damage comparable to shadow blade while using heir pact weapon, which is nice.


Strength using eldritch knight, on the other hand, get a rally nice option to use in place of an upcast shadow blade, to pair with GWM, when the situation warrants.

[MaxWilson]

Strength using eldritch knight, on the other hand, get a rally nice option to use in place of an upcast shadow blade, to pair with GWM, when the situation warrants.

Eh... for third-level slots, +d8 damage doesn't really compete with 3d8 Shadow Blade. Total damage is similar but the to-hit on Shadow Blade is much better, unless you've got a very magic greatsword (+3ish).

Str 20 Eldritch Knight 15 would have 3x +5 to hit for 2d6+1d8+15 with Spirit Shroud, or +8 to hit for 2d6+1d8+18 with greatsword +3. Against e.g. AC 15 that's 45.63 DPR, or 63.68 with a +3 greatsword. (Compare to 37.35 and 53.55, respectively, without using Spirit Shroud.)

By casting Magic Weapon, he'd have 3x +6 to hit for 2d6+16 (42.45 damage instead of 45.63), but it's only a second-level spell so it's cheaper.

By casting Shadow Blade III, he'd have 3x +10 to hit (with advantage in dim light/darkness) for 3d8+5, yielding 46.42 in bright light and 57.23 in darkness.

Details will vary with enemy AC but you get the idea. With a heavily-magic weapon you're probably better off just casting Animate Dead to get a bunch of zombies and having them shove enemies prone so you can attack with advantage.

I do acknowledge that Spirit Shroud has some nice riders, but I don't think the +d8 damage is worth that much to a Fighter.

[Dork_Forge]

I think Crossbow expert, or just giving up an opportunity attack is well worth it to get the scalability of EB.

Unfortunately, the bonus damage from the Celestial Warlock’s level 6 ability only allows the bonus damage to be added to “one damage roll against one of the spell’s targets” so you’d only get +5 damage over the course of the entire minute of the spell, no matter how many attacks you make.

Taking opportunity attacks reapeatedly as part of your primary strategy is a good way to end up on the floor repeatedly or rolling up a new character entirely.

The scalability of EB is redundant until 11th level at the earliest (though TWF would still keep up with procs at that point), the feat spent on CBE could be spent on something else to yield more damage or survivability (like grabbing a fighting style from a new feat).

On the Celestial damage: I'm aware it will only proc once, it's still an additional 4/5 damage you aren't getting otherwise. The only damage bump you'd get from another patron is the Hexblade, which competes for a bonus action and is once per short rest. There's also the option of an upcast Guiding Bolt, with the Cha damage and Spirit Shroud added on (letting you proc the damage on spirit shroud one round, GB the next) or even throw out some buffed GFBs out there too.

[ThatDuckGrant]

I do acknowledge that Spirit Shroud has some nice riders, but I don't think the +d8 damage is worth that much to a Fighter.

I agree with this. I think Shadow Blade is the better option for the EK.

Where Spirit Shroud shines is in 2 or 3 situations.

1. It allows you to add the rider on a bonus action attack. This makes the spell more usable than SB for TWF, PAM and CE. You really need to use it as AT LEAST a 5th level spell before this benefit outweighs Shadow Blade though.

2. It compounds with Spells. This is a huge power increase for EB or Scorching Ray. You can definitely argue the necessity for CE or opportunity attacks make it high risk, high reward, but you’re talking about the ability to nearly double your EB damage or do even better than that for Scorching Ray.

3. It adds to a weapon you already have. As you mentioned, using it with a +3 weapon helps a lot. But using it with something better than that (say a Vorpal Sword or a scimitar of speed) definitely makes it more competitive than SB.

[MaxWilson]

I agree with this. I think Shadow Blade is the better option for the EK.

Where Spirit Shroud shines is in 2 or 3 situations.

1. It allows you to add the rider on a bonus action attack. This makes the spell more usable than SB for TWF, PAM and CE. You really need to use it as AT LEAST a 5th level spell before this benefit outweighs Shadow Blade though.

2. It compounds with Spells. This is a huge power increase for EB or Scorching Ray. You can definitely argue the necessity for CE or opportunity attacks make it high risk, high reward, but you’re talking about the ability to nearly double your EB damage or do even better than that for Scorching Ray.

3. It adds to a weapon you already have. As you mentioned, using it with a +3 weapon helps a lot. But using it with something better than that (say a Vorpal Sword or a scimitar of speed) definitely makes it more competitive than SB.

Yep, good points there. Concur. Fighter 11/Wizard 9 was already a pretty good Sharpshooter/CE build with Shadow Blade, and Spirit Shroud is even better in that niche, especially because (see below about Phantom Steed).

However, Magic Weapon is still better than Spirit Shroud if you don't already have a magic hand crossbow or if you don't need the riders or if you want to shoot prone enemies at advantage instead with disadvantage of from 10' away, so Spirit Shroud is still not fundamentally changing the game, just providing a different option. That's a good thing: it's not power creep, for this scenario.

Interesting point about Scorching Ray though. That could be quite powerful.


I think Crossbow expert, or just giving up an opportunity attack is well worth it to get the scalability of EB.

Unfortunately, the bonus damage from the Celestial Warlock’s level 6 ability only allows the bonus damage to be added to “one damage roll against one of the spell’s targets” so you’d only get +5 damage over the course of the entire minute of the spell, no matter how many attacks you make.

You could also play a Goblin warlock. Crossbow Expert is better against a prone target, but otherwise Goblin gives you more defensive options, with or without Spirit Shroud.

Aarakocra warlock could also work, and come to think of it so would any Book of Ancient Secrets Tomelock with Phantom Steed. (Or any old warhose, actually, provided you can get one into your current adventuring location.)

So on reflection, I think Crossbow Expert is not strictly necessary.

[Hael]

I believe it’s marginally better offensively than shadow of Moil for a blast lock once you get the third attack. On the other hand I don’t think it quite makes sense for a melee/ranged bladelock. I believe if my math is correct that a SS/XBE/EA hits harder with advantage than shroud and of course would lack the significant defensive
Bonuses of som.

Shroud really wants those higher lvl slots to get more than 2d8 to justify itself.. I think it’s more melee/ranged sorcerer/wizard land.

[Foxhound438]

It looks cool, and you do a lot of damage, but it's limited to within 10 feet of you (I don't have a link to an image of the page handy, but I do remember seeing it). It's likely that if you're close enough to get use out of this, enemies will be getting up in your face, which means disadvantage on all of those eldritch blasts, plus a lot of opportunites for them to drop your concentration. You can mitigate both of these with feats, but that quickly becomes a very heavy feat burden on your build, and even after picking up the necessary feats, you're still looking at putting yourself in a position to get KO'd. You don't have a big hit die, you don't have great armor, and you're spending all your ASI's on feat and CHA rather than Con, so you're pretty squishy overall.

That's not to say it's not good or anything, just that it's by no means the end of balanced D&D. Fighters with flametongues (plus GWM) have been around since very early, and they typically aren't considered super broken at these higher levels either.

[MaxWilson]

I believe it’s marginally better offensively than shadow of Moil for a blast lock once you get the third attack. On the other hand I don’t think it quite makes sense for a melee/ranged bladelock. I believe if my math is correct that a SS/XBE/EA hits harder with advantage than shroud and of course would lack the significant defensive
Bonuses of som.

Shroud really wants those higher lvl slots to get more than 2d8 to justify itself.. I think it’s more melee/ranged sorcerer/wizard land.

On the other hand, if you have someone else in your party already casting Darkness (e.g. an Alert Shadow Monk), Shadow of Moil/Darkness is redundant but Spirit Shroud is not.

On the gripping hand, Spirit Shroud V adds only +2d8 but Wall of Fire (with Repelling Blast) adds +5d8.

[solidork]

I'm looking forward to it on my EK/Warlock - I'm perfectly fine switching to melee if I have to, and the option of being able to bust out the Eldritch Shotgun for up to 8d10+16d8+45 (the extra 5 is from Radiant Soul) is great.

Edit: I see they nerfed it so you only get 2d8 at level 5 - still, it's a lot of damage. Shadow of Moil will be my go to offense/defense combo, but if someone needs to die then Spirit Shroud will come into play.

Edit2: Spirit Shroud is -10ft, Lance of Lethargy is -10ft, any way to build on this and do some kind of lockdown build?

[cutlery]

Eh... for third-level slots, +d8 damage doesn't really compete with 3d8 Shadow Blade. Total damage is similar but the to-hit on Shadow Blade is much better, unless you've got a very magic greatsword (+3ish).



I don't quite agree. I mean, to-hit is better but the average damage is quite comparable - provided you are built to use a greatsword in the first place (and thus, GWM).

But, if I don't have at least a +1 weapon by level 15 for a character built around melee, I've likely already retired that fighter for a class less reliant on items.

A +1 greatsword with GWM will edge out shadow blade; which is nice if you're sick of the spell (which isn't hard by 15 if you're using it 2-3 times per day, or if you have more than one character that uses it).

(.8 - .25 + .05= .6)

Spirit Shroud with a +1 weapon and GWM:

.6*(7+5+10+1+4.5)*3=49.9
Without a +1: 43.725

Shadow blade
.8*(13.5+5)*3=44.4

I'd call that competitive without a +1, and it pulls away with one; at least until advantage is reliable.

Shadowblade takes off with dim light; Spirit Shroud pairs nicely with PAM on round 2 if you're into that. Both work with GWM bonus attacks. Shadow Blade gains 2.25 damage from GWF, if you choose to use it with two hands (I don't expect many do).

Without the +1; Shroud with GWM edges out shadow blade at 17 when the prof bonus goes up at ac 15: 47.7 vs 47.2. These swap places against ac 16 targets, though.

It would be nice if spirit shroud had a more clear niche; but if they hadn't nerfed it, bladesinger dpr would be really scary. It will probably be nice for reach polearm users, though.

It was far more interesting for eldritch knights, paladins, and clerics pre-nerf, but shared spell lists are why 1/3 casters can't have nice things.

[CMCC]

I don't quite agree. I mean, to-hit is better but the average damage is quite comparable - provided you are built to use a greatsword in the first place (and thus, GWM).

But, if I don't have at least a +1 weapon by level 15 for a character built around melee, I've likely already retired that fighter for a class less reliant on items.

A +1 greatsword with GWM will edge out shadow blade; which is nice if you're sick of the spell (which isn't hard by 15 if you're using it 2-3 times per day, or if you have more than one character that uses it).

(.8 - .25 + .05= .6)

Spirit Shroud with a +1 weapon and GWM:

.6*(7+5+10+1+4.5)*3=49.9
Without a +1: 43.725

Shadow blade
.8*(13.5+5)*3=44.4

I'd call that competitive without a +1, and it pulls away with one; at least until advantage is reliable.

Shadowblade takes off with dim light; Spirit Shroud pairs nicely with PAM on round 2 if you're into that. Both work with GWM bonus attacks. Shadow Blade gains 2.25 damage from GWF, if you choose to use it with two hands (I don't expect many do).

Without the +1; Shroud with GWM edges out shadow blade at 17 when the prof bonus goes up at ac 15: 47.7 vs 47.2. These swap places against ac 16 targets, though.

It would be nice if spirit shroud had a more clear niche; but if they hadn't nerfed it, bladesinger dpr would be really scary. It will probably be nice for reach polearm users, though.

It was far more interesting for eldritch knights, paladins, and clerics pre-nerf, but shared spell lists are why 1/3 casters can't have nice things.

How are you using two hands on a non-versatile weapon?

[MaxWilson]

One Shroudlock idea that might be interesting: battle necromancer. Spirit Shroud is a Necromancy spell, so unlike Hex it benefits from Grim Harvest: every time you kill a creature with Spirit Shroud, you get 3 * [spell level of Spirit Shroud] HP back in healing. It's not temp healing, so it actually stacks.

Goblin Necromancer 2+/Warlock 2+ could be fun from pretty early levels, and brings Spirit Shroud online by level 7. (Note: I'm assuming here that you're already aware of other fun warlock/wizard synergies like warlock-powered Rope Trick for regaining short rest abilities anywhere, multi-short-rest Tiny Servants/Animate Dead accumulation, Tiny Servants + Fog Cloud to leverage your Tiny Servants AND give you a place to Hide, etc.) Goblin's Nimble Escape lets you use your Spirit Shroud at optimal range (10') without taking opportunity attacks, and getting 9-15 HP per kill could potentially make you the tankiest PC in the party, assuming you don't just fight big solo monsters all the time.

However, you'd need a DM ruling on whether Grim Harvest triggers if Spirit Shroud is on a killing attack, or only if the extra +d8/2d8 was instrumental in killing the monsters. The rule text isn't clear, and keeping track of which kind of what damage does the kill is a hassle, so IMO it's better for everybody if the DM just rules that it triggers as long as Spirit Shroud is on the killing attack, but you'd definitely need to ask.

[Citadel97501]

One Shroudlock idea that might be interesting: battle necromancer. Spirit Shroud is a Necromancy spell, so unlike Hex it benefits from Grim Harvest: every time you kill a creature with Spirit Shroud, you get 3 * [spell level of Spirit Shroud] HP back in healing. It's not temp healing, so it actually stacks.

Goblin Necromancer 2+/Warlock 2+ could be fun from pretty early levels, and brings Spirit Shroud online by level 7. (Note: I'm assuming here that you're already aware of other fun warlock/wizard synergies like warlock-powered Rope Trick for regaining short rest abilities anywhere, multi-short-rest Tiny Servants/Animate Dead accumulation, Tiny Servants + Fog Cloud to leverage your Tiny Servants AND give you a place to Hide, etc.) Goblin's Nimble Escape lets you use your Spirit Shroud at optimal range (10') without taking opportunity attacks, and getting 9-15 HP per kill could potentially make you the tankiest PC in the party, assuming you don't just fight big solo monsters all the time.

However, you'd need a DM ruling on whether Grim Harvest triggers if Spirit Shroud is on a killing attack, or only if the extra +d8/2d8 was instrumental in killing the monsters. The rule text isn't clear, and keeping track of which kind of what damage does the kill is a hassle, so IMO it's better for everybody if the DM just rules that it triggers as long as Spirit Shroud is on the killing attack, but you'd definitely need to ask.

I love the idea of a melee necromancer wizard, hell toss on some Artificer with the Battlesmith or Armorer subclasses and you have full on tank caster using intelligence to hit, with medium or heavy armor + shield as needed.