Gate theory

[ebarde]

While this last gate almost certainly has some other measure of defense other than just having lots of doors, I think that this method of defense is very specific and not that cost efficient for it to be chosen for no reason. This might be a bit of a reach, but since it's designer was the only member of her party that wanted to keep everyone together, maybe she made the first defense stall out as long as possible any eventual attacker in hopes that a party of adventurers would intercept them. Every defense represented what whoever built it valued most, so it would make sense that this last one would be not only about the values of her fallen party member, those being strength above all else but also her own belief in teamwork and all that stuff.

Because if the people that go after the gate are strong enough to reliably be able to take out even a single dungeon, they could theoretically just systematically clear them until only the real gate is left. The only true win condition for the defense is that a party of high level adventurers bands together to take them out. Maybe if she considered the possibility of the gates being attacked before they all die of old age, this might even have been an attempt at reuniting her friends if push ever came to shove.

[Fyraltari]

Please change the name of this thread.

[Grey Watcher]

Building on this idea, there might be one or more Mirrors of Opposition (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#mirrorofOpposition) at the end (especially if the duplicate has full HP and spell slots and stuff). Much like Zelda 2 (and countless other works), if you're a bad enough (set of) dude(s) to get this far, clearly the only true challenge for you is yourself.

[hroþila]

since it's designer was the only member of her party that wanted to keep everyone together
Was she? Splitting up was her idea.

[Fyraltari]

Was she? Splitting up was her idea.

She was the one who wanted to keep the peace. Splitting up was a lesser evil next to PvP.

[KorvinStarmast]

The only true win condition for the defense is that a party of high level adventurers bands together to take them out. Maybe if she considered the possibility of the gates being attacked before they all die of old age, this might even have been an attempt at reuniting her friends if push ever came to shove.That would certainly make thematic sense, but I am thinking through this and puzzle over the matter of Soon and Girard being dead for quite some time, while Lirian and Dorukan's souls are trapped in a gemstone, so they might be accessible though it might take a spell that Rich doesn't like for that to be so.

[ebarde]

I think all the defense measures were built at the same time, so I believe every party member was alive when they finished. Cause even if some certainly took a bit longer than the others, I don't think it was to the point where when she finished they were all long dead and gone.

[Schroeswald]

I think that the Gates defenses are more than they seem because I think getting to the gate will take some interesting thematic stuff but I’ve never been given a theory that actually works for me (including the one time I came up with a theory). And I do love the idea of much of the final book taking place in another dungeon going down to find a gate.

[KorvinStarmast]

And I do love the idea of much of the final book taking place in another dungeon going down to find a gate. Bookends, so to speak. :smallwink:

[Schroeswald]

Bookends, so to speak. :smallwink:

There will definitely be some less foolish fools dungeon crawling.

Also, weird theory I don’t really believe but kinda want to share
In the BRITF commentary Rich mentions that each time they go after the gate has a different dynamic, DCF is Order trying to take it from Team Evil, W&XPS has Team Evil trying to take it from the Order, and BRITF has a race, but so far it looks like Book 7 is just a race again.
So what if we get another new way to reach the gate where, and this is not a good theory but an interesting one, what if the Order and Team Evil have to work together to get to the gate?

[Gandariel]

This is not a race, because the Order is not trying to reach the Gate.

Their goal is to Stop Team Evil, and THEN figure out what to do about the gates. (probably restore the other broken gates, possibly with the help of Redcloak's fourth colour).



This is obviously without considering implications of stuff like the other world in the Rift.

[Metastachydium]

what if the Order and Team Evil have to work together to get to the gate?

Improbable as it sounds, that would be gorgeous. (And it would mix well with the theory I don't talk about anymore in public.)

[KorvinStarmast]

... what if the Order and Team Evil have to work together to get to the gate? That would be cool.

Their goal is to Stop Team Evil, and THEN figure out what to do about the gates. This is obviously without considering implications of stuff like the other world in the Rift. To Roy and to V, that other world is beyond mysterious, and even Thor and the IFCC were suprised to hear about it.

[BeerMug Paladin]

The gate being reachable by teamwork only would make sense to me. For example, maybe there's a glyph at the end of many of these dungeons which requires simultaneous touching like what sealed the talisman away all the way back in Dorukan's dungeon. If the requirement was having enough people on the same team who are strong enough to be at the end of many dungeons, that might make a bit of thematic sense for both Kraagor and Serini. Maybe there's a trigger required behind every dungeon door.

Also, we're seeing some excellent teamwork on display by the Order, and we already know that team evil not only already has a traitor to their efforts in their midst, we also know that not even two of them have the same agenda. Having the final gate be impossible for an individual to reach would make a bit of thematic sense, if the theme here is about the power/value of teamwork. Plus it would make sense if Belkar's death/possible-redemption fit the theme.

In my mind there's also the question of how the bugbears came to live in this place. Granted there's reason to believe that they could have found the place in the decades since the tomb's construction, but what if Serini was involved in the early days because she knew such a town would depend on the tomb never being depleted of monsters, while someone seeking the gate with an insufficient team would require depleting the precious resources? That would also make thematic sense, since it would mean that the large team's (the town's) best interest would be to defend/maintain the gate's means of defense.