Non-primitive Hexer Archivist?

[Avigor]

Is there a way to qualify for Hexer without being born a savage race or permanently becoming one? I tried looking for feats based around giant or goblin heritage but couldn't find any...

I'm kinda liking the idea of a civilized Archivist developing an appreciation for the power of primitive magics and embracing them, but without a case transpeciesism or adoption being involved.

[daremetoidareyo]

Is there a way to qualify for Hexer without being born a savage race or permanently becoming one? I tried looking for feats based around giant or goblin heritage but couldn't find any...

I'm kinda liking the idea of a civilized Archivist developing an appreciation for the power of primitive magics and embracing them, but without a case transpeciesism or adoption being involved.

I think the adept gets native divine access to lightning bolts. Archivist is certainly the better chassis

[Anthrowhale]

Maybe a primordial giant half-giant?

[NigelWalmsley]

I think the adept gets native divine access to lightning bolts. Archivist is certainly the better chassis

He's asking about the "Monstrous humanoid, giant, goblinoid, or other primitive humanoid, such as orc or gnoll." requirement, not the "Able to cast lightning bolt as a divine spell." one. As far as that goes, I'm not aware of anything that specifically lets you bypass that sort of requirement. But I'm also not sure what "primitive humanoid" means (does Masters of the Wild define it somewhere?), so I would just find something that qualifies and has the stat spread you want. There's gotta be a +2 Intelligence Goblin or something out there somewhere.

[mabriss lethe]

Blues get an int bump. They have an inexplicable +1 LA, but every table i've played at or run where it comes up just ignores that.

[daremetoidareyo]

Neanderthal from frostburn?

There's a primitive human subrace in dragonlance with a +8 racial bonus to craft alchemy for one type of face paint. It starts with the letter t if I'm remembering correctly. Edit: tarmak p.232. "Strange and Savage"

[Thurbane]

"Monstrous humanoid, giant, goblinoid, or other primitive humanoid, such as orc or gnoll."

It depends on how primitive you consider some of the monstrous humanoid and goblinoid races, I guess.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Races of Destiny has Underfolk, which after reading their description you'll have a difficult time justifying that they're any more civilized than orcs, goblins, and gnolls.

Anthropomorphic animals in Savage Species are all monstrous humanoids. The bat, lizard, monkey, rat, raven, toad, and weasel are all +0 LA and only 1 HD which would be replaced by your first class level.

Goliaths and Dromites (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicRaces.htm#dromites) are both monstrous humanoids, but both are +1 LA.

[The Viscount]

A Changeling with the Racial Emulation feat will do it.

Also if we're talking qualifying, people are always sleeping on shugenja as a means of qualifying. (Granted, shugenja isn't great, and fire for lightning bolt means no healing, but still).

[Doctor Despair]

When you select the Wedded to History feat, you can select a background; one of the background reads thus:


Throwback
You are the final holdover from the last stage of your race's evolution. You might even be the first of your race, still wandering the world, gaining and losing power as you do. You have lived since time had even yet to make mortality, and so wander from age to age, reinventing yourself as you choose.
Special Ability: You possess strange quirks of mentality and physiology that affect both mundane and magical attempts to disrupt your body. Attacks and effects normally geared toward your creature type have no effect; this includes a Ranger's favored enemy bonus, bane weapons, and spell effects geared to creature types (such as charm person). On the other hand, you are also immune to beneficial effects that affect such types as well, should you run into any.

Arguably that should let you qualify as a primitive race, right? You're literally a less evolved version of your race.

[Avigor]

While Doctor Despair's suggestion has a certain potential, I think I've found another way to avoid a complete species change/limitation: Ritual of Association from SS adds a subtype, like goblinoid. It would involve a permanent change of appearance, and says it's for item use, but it should work...

[Luccan]

Depending on the setting, some of the qualifying races aren't really "primitive" (guessing what it means by that). If rejection by standard D&D society isn't an issue on its own, hobgoblins are bastions of military might and discipline, more than capable of keen strategies and tactics. Though they're a bit one-dimensional like most Usually Evil races, one can extrapolate that they should be roughly as advanced in all aspects as any other martial society in a setting.

[ShurikVch]

How about a Half-Goblin?

Specifically - a Half-Goblin who grew among Humans, but interested in the "other half" of their legacy?

I suggesting to use Half-Goblin variant from the Kingdoms of Kalamar:

Personality- Half-goblins are often hateful of their own existence, and strive to prove themselves to others. Among goblins, this means that the half-goblin will be quite outgoing and vicious. They often end up starting their own tribe. A half-goblin raised by humans, however, tends to be somewhat shy, inquisitive and principled. Both have their own personal code of conduct (good or bad) that they live by.
As an extra benefit - unlike the most other races in the game, Fieri (it's how half-goblins called in the Kingdoms of Kalamar) have choice between the two different racial ability adjustments: +2 Dex/-2 Str, or +2 Dex/-2 Wis & Cha
Also:
Medium size
25' speed (15' in Medium or Heavy armor)
Darkvision 60'
+1 Reflex
Considered Goblins for magical effects

[sleepyphoenixx]

Depending on the setting you could just be human.
Something like the Uthgard barbarian tribes from FR would almost certainly count, or at least i'd let it.
The same applies to Eberron's Talenta halflings.

[liquidformat]

Shifter from Eberron/ MMIII is actually a really cool and thematic choice for a Hexer! Being a race that is derived from lycanthropes they do have some level of 'curse' in their bloodline. So making a shifter that has embraced their cursed heritage and now focuses on trying to harness it as a weapon is a very cool and thematic idea. Actually I think it would be a really fun character idea and I might try making one.

On a side note is shugenja or Southern Magician on a wizard/sorceress/warmage/gnome artificer the only ways to qualify besides going adpet?


When you select the Wedded to History feat, you can select a background; one of the background reads thus:



Arguably that should let you qualify as a primitive race, right? You're literally a less evolved version of your race.
Where does Wedded to History come from I haven't heard of it before?

[NigelWalmsley]

Dragon Magazine. It makes you immortal (which is fluff in 99% of campaigns), then gives you one of several backgrounds that provide you with minor bonuses. Somewhat like Apprentice.

[Luccan]

.

On a side note is shugenja or Southern Magician on a wizard/sorceress/warmage/gnome artificer the only ways to qualify besides going adpet?


Archivists work because while they only get Cleric spells on level up, they can copy scrolls of any Divine spell into their spellbook. If you can find a non-Water Shugenja or high level Adept willing to sell you a scroll, Archivist qualifies for Hexer

Edit: If that Half-goblin from earlier is in the table, you might be able to argue Half-Orc qualifies. Not ideal for an Artificer, I know, but you'll be generally tolerated in human lands, which is more than can be said for some of these options. Maybe go Desert Half-Orc so even if it's penalizing your Int it's still bumping a stat you care about

[Kaleph]

On a side note is shugenja or Southern Magician on a wizard/sorceress/warmage/gnome artificer the only ways to qualify besides going adpet?

Theoretically speaking, UA's "generic spellcaster" is the most straightforward qualifier. If the class is legal at your table, of course.

[GrayDeath]

Theoretically speaking, UA's "generic spellcaster" is the most straightforward qualifier. If the class is legal at your table, of course.

I have yet to see an actual table allow it.

Do any of you have different experiences? If so, I would be interested in hearing about them (ideally not in this thread^^).

As for the qualification: I think this is another point of RAW/RAI conflict for many a table.

RAI it should be doable for any being coming from a "barbaric" society and it onlxy mentions the most likely examples.

RAW you could polimorph yourself into a fitting race, take the first level, go back and enjoy all the classes advantages (hint hint^^)...

[Luccan]

I have yet to see an actual table allow it.

Do any of you have different experiences? If so, I would be interested in hearing about them (ideally not in this thread^^).

As for the qualification: I think this is another point of RAW/RAI conflict for many a table.

RAI it should be doable for any being coming from a "barbaric" society and it onlxy mentions the most likely examples.

RAW you could polimorph yourself into a fitting race, take the first level, go back and enjoy all the classes advantages (hint hint^^)...

Don't you lose your prestige class if you stop qualifying for it? I could've sworn there was a rule to specifically prevent such shenanigans.

Edit: and I know you said not in this thread, but considering Generic Spellcaster is intended to be used in games that only use the three Generic classes, I wouldn't be surprised if very few tables had ever seen it used

[GrayDeath]

The "Lose when qualifying" is only in one specific Book, ergo it only is a "must" Rule for Prestige Classes from said Book (RAW that is, RAI much can be argued^^).

And thanks for the Info. :)

[Troacctid]

Arguably that should let you qualify as a primitive race, right? You're literally a less evolved version of your race.
Yeah, but the losing benefits thing could be an issue.


On a side note is shugenja or Southern Magician on a wizard/sorceress/warmage/gnome artificer the only ways to qualify besides going adpet?
The arcane disciple cleric variant is typically the most efficient entry method.

[Thurbane]

I've been very interested in an Archivist (or Favored Soul) Hexer for a while, here's some threads I made which might have some useful info:

Divine Lightning Bolt (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?204476)
Divine Lightning Bolt Part II (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?605823)
Favored Soul/Hexer (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?510301)
Hexer Build (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?551158)
Thoughts on an Archivist Gish (https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?197922)

...and also my Archivist/Hexer entry into Junkyard Wars: https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=21191511&postcount=36


How about a Half-Goblin?

That reminds me, Green Ronin's Bastards & Bloodlines has the Half-Hobgoblin, which is actually one of the more playable races in the book. LA +0, +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Cha.

[NigelWalmsley]

Yeah, but the losing benefits thing could be an issue.

You lose the benefits that are "normally geared toward your creature type". Since your creature type is presumably not one that can take Hexer by default (otherwise, why sink a feat on Wedded to History?), you don't have the benefit of "is able to take Hexer" to lose.

[thorr-kan]

Raging Swan Press has a half-goblin in one of his Lonely Coast supplements as well. It's PF, but it would be a different take.

I'd totally allow kobolds to meet the primitive humanoid requirements.

[Venger]

You could always just shapeshift somehow, then enter the class.

[daremetoidareyo]

Isn't there a feral creature template tucked away somewhere?

[Venger]

Yeah, it's in savage species and changes type to monstrous humanoid. One of the strongest la 1 templates in the game.