Haste + Bladesinger Extra Attack

[Dualswinger]

30 attacks per round IS possible with this ability, but it requires discussion ahead of time.

Lots of people are discussing the new Bladesinger "Cantrip and attack" ability, and how it interacts with Haste.

Bladesinger Extra Attack: "You can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. Moreover, you can cast one of your cantrips in place of one of those attacks."

Haste: "Choose a willing creature that you can see within range. Until the spell ends, the target’s speed is doubled, it gains a +2 bonus to AC, it has advantage on Dexterity saving throws, and it gains an additional action on each of its turns. That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action."


SO, how do they interact? I see 4 potential outcomes.

1. It doesn't. Haste says you make one weapon attack, that's what you get.

2. It doesn't impact you. You make one weapon attack, then you can cast a cantrip since you "swap" and never need to make another "weapon attack"

3. It does impact you. You get one weapon attack. You may "swap" it for a cantrip, but that's it.

4. It does impact you slightly. You get one weapon attack. You may "swap" your second attack, but it must be a cantrip that does not make a weapon attack as part of its casting (So basically the two blade spells).


Whats the playground's opinions?




Echo Knight 3/Sorc3/Gloomstalker3/BS11

Use contingency to cast Haste for no action when battle starts.
You get 3 attack actions. Each one gets a bonus attack from the Echoknight and the Gloomstalker. So that's 7 attacks per action even on the haste action.
Bonus action quicken Scorching ray at 8th level, for another 9 attacks.
7+7+7+9=30

Hey I never said it was a GOOD build ;)

[Hellpyre]

2. It doesn't impact you. You make one weapon attack, then you can cast a cantrip since you "swap" and never need to make another "weapon attack"

...



Echo Knight 3/Sorc3/Gloomstalker3/BS11

Use contingency to cast Haste for no action when battle starts.
You get 3 attack actions. Each one gets a bonus attack from the Echoknight and the Gloomstalker. So that's 7 attacks per action even on the haste action.
Bonus action quicken Scorching ray at 8th level, for another 9 attacks.
7+7+7+9=30

Hey I never said it was a GOOD build ;)



I am deeply confused as to how you are converting 1+3 into 7. Do you mean attack rolls, say from EB? Finally, Haste places a specific limit on the Attack action it grants, so arguably neither Dread Ambusher nor Unleash Incarnation will grant it an extra attack, and the Bladesinger Extra Attack certainly will not.

EDIT: I think I see what you're trying for, but I don't see how you can justify trying to swap out attacks that you aren't entitled to take, even if you could cast unlimited cantrips per turn via the bladesinger ability.

[Dualswinger]

I am deeply confused as to how you are converting 1+3 into 7. Do you mean attack rolls, say from EB? Finally, Haste places a specific limit on the Attack action it grants, so arguably neither Dread Ambusher nor Unleash Incarnation will grant it an extra attack, and the Bladesinger Extra Attack certainly will not.

EDIT: I think I see what you're trying for, but I don't see how you can justify trying to swap out attacks that you aren't entitled to take, even if you could cast unlimited cantrips per turn via the bladesinger ability.

Sage Advice confirmed that you can use DA and UI with the haste action.

[Hellpyre]

Sage Advice confirmed that you can use DA and UI with the haste action.

Do you have the link for that? It isn't in the compendium, and there are previous sage advice tweets that are contrary to that.

[Silpharon]

Sage Advice confirmed that you can use DA and UI with the haste action.

I'm also deeply confused. Extra Attack + DA + UA is 4 attacks per attack action, not 7. And I agree that the hasted action does not get those benefits, so you're looking at 9 total attacks. The scorching ray thing is fine.

As for the cantrip language for BS, I think it's pretty clear that it's tied to their version of Extra Attack. So in your case, with action surge as you've used it, that's two Extra Attacks, so 2 of the 9 attacks can be cantrips, but as a DM I would enforce an order to make sure those 2 occur on the Extra Attack phases.

[Steampunkette]

It does not work.

As a Bladesinger, you may swap 1 of your 2 attacks per round for a Cantrip (Hitting a maximum of 5 times if you take Eldritch Blast or some other multi-target attack and swing once). But it makes it clear that you can only swap -one- of those attacks, plural.

Gaining an extra attack, whether from Haste or some other source, leaves you making only 1 attack on that action (Or reaction, or whatever action the specific ability is) so you cannot swap out one of your two attacks. You don't get two. You get one.